ray allen for elton brand

[fairweatherfan06]

Brand is too small to guard the bigger/taller 5's in the league and be effective.  He's best at PF and the Clippers have enough SG's the deal is senseless for either team as currently composed.

[pearljammer10]

Sign and trade involving maggette, livingston, and kaman

Celtics get Kaman, Magette, livingston

Clippers get Allen, Powe, Scal's contract.

[indeedproceed]

This "friction" nonsense about Ray Allen is hot stinking ridiculous garbage. Ray Allen wrote the book on professionalism. He is not going to get all gooey because he dislikes KG's mannerisms or PP's lifestyle, esp after they just won a title. This is speculation, its baseless, its ridiculous and we owe Ray a little more benefit of the doubt than this. Besides, we'd be competely ripping the clippers off for Brand. They're losing a piece they can't afford to lose, and gaining a piece when with the departure of Brand, they'll have a giant gaping hole at the 4. This is preposterous.

And Kaman? are you kidding me? For Pierce, maybe. Chris Kaman was one of the top 5 centers in the league until he got hurt. 2 hardest positions to fill: Center and Point guard. The clippers are locked in at both. This is hurting my head.

[jaketwice]

This "friction" nonsense about Ray Allen is hot stinking ridiculous garbage. Ray Allen wrote the book on professionalism. He is not going to get all gooey because he dislikes KG's mannerisms or PP's lifestyle, esp after they just won a title. This is speculation, its baseless, its ridiculous and we owe Ray a little more benefit of the doubt than this. Besides, we'd be competely ripping the clippers off for Brand. They're losing a piece they can't afford to lose, and gaining a piece when with the departure of Brand, they'll have a giant gaping hole at the 4. This is preposterous.

And Kaman? are you kidding me? For Pierce, maybe. Chris Kaman was one of the top 5 centers in the league until he got hurt. 2 hardest positions to fill: Center and Point guard. The clippers are locked in at both. This is hurting my head.

Ray Allen is a great player, and he seems like a great guy.  I can't believe anyone is suggesting trading him.  I don't think it's going to happen, and I don't think it should.

Donny Marshall probably knows Ray better than most, and he said that he was ecstatic to be here.

Kevin Garnett said that Sam, Ray and Paul were three of the people he was closest to in the league (along with Tyron Lue and Chauncy Billups), and it was like having three brothers on the team.

Someone reported that Garnett was visiting with Ray on Martha's Vineyard.  It's hard to believe there's any real tension between them.

Of course, when you play more than a hundred games together, and practice, take planes and eat together, there are going to be times when you get sick of someone.  If I spent that much time with my brother or best friend I would feel that way; so I don't think it's any big deal.

Ray has a different style.  He's quieter and doesn't seem to feel comfortable with all the attention.  (I think Rondo's similar.)  Paul has a different style.  But I think they all get along fine.  I doubt any of them want to leave.

As far as drafting the two young wing players, I think the Celtics just took the two best athletes they could get at those draft picks: the guys with the most upside (even though they risks).  I think it was a good decision, since the Celtics are a strong team.  I don't think they were viewing them as potential replacements for a starter; at most, they would be competing with Tony Allen.

As far as Maggette, he's the best FA available in their price range.  Why wouldn't you try to get a 20-plus/5-rebound guy, particularly if he's willing to come off the bench (and he's a few years younger).  I don't think there's any great mystery here; and I don't think it means they're trying to move a starter.

In terms of Ray's potential, I think he's got a lot of great ball still in him.  He showed that with a 48 minute performance and a lot of clutch scoring at the very end of a very long season.  He is clearly capable of a lot more, particularly if his minutes go down to the 32-minute range.

I think the Celtics really misused him for most of the season, and it was very difficult for him to get into a rhythm.  He's used to being the number one offensive option; this year, he was the third option, and often the fourth.  There were many games when Rondo put up 12 shots and Ray put up 6-8.  Of all the Celtics, Perk and Ray need touches in the first quarter.  Rondo, KG and Paul can all get their shots anytime.  There were plenty of games when Paul had completely different halves (same with Rondo, less so with KG).  But if Perk didn't get two scores in the first quarter, he often finished the game with 0 points and 2 rebounds.  If Perk got a couple scores early, he was capable of 10 and 12.  It was similar with Ray.  He was directing the offense.  He relied on others to find him.  If he was involved, he could have big games; if not, he sometimes disappeared.

After he complained publicly (in the playoffs), Rondo began looking for him every time in transition and got him a lot of open looks.  His scoring went up immediately, and his body language completely changed.  So, transition buckets and running plays for him are key.

The other thing is letting him drive.  I understand that most of the time he'll be at the three line to spread the floor and to make sure he's back on transition defense.  Most of the time the Celtics will play their "move the ball" offense, in which they make 2, 3, 4 passes and the open man shoots.  But 10-20% of the time, they need to vary the offense.  Sometimes the multiple pass offense isn't working; sometimes the matchups aren't favoring the other guys, or Ray isn't involved in the offense.  In this case, I think Doc needs to be a little less stubborn.  He needs to trust his veterans.  These guys have 30-plus years experience combined.  They have a feel for when they can (and need to) change things up.  When Ray is struggling, space the floor and let him drive a few times to the rim.  We all saw his reverse, double-pump layup, and his left-handed layup past Vujacic in Game 4 of the Finals.  He's capable of doing that a lot more.

I couldn't believe how many games during the season he had no free throws or only a couple.  The guy is a 91% FT shooter.  The chances of his making 2 points on FTs are .91 x .91 = 83%.  It's the highest percentage play the Celtics have.  There is no shot (other than a dunk) that is a better percentage play.  How many times was a Ray Allen drive blocked around the basket?  Maybe five times all season.  If he gets in the paint, he either kicks it out to a wide open three, he scores a layup, or he shoots FTs.

I think Rondo's a great player, and he's only going to get better; but there's no way he should consistently be shooting 12-14 shots (and House 8 and Posey while Ray is shooting 6-8.

My point is: if he's not involved early in the game (the first six minutes), the Celtics should run plays for him and also space the floor and let him isolate and take several drives to the rim.

That's my only complaint with the Celtics all year.  When Perk and Ray are involved early, they are unbeatable and win games by 20-plus points.

I think Ray showed a lot of class and maturity by keeping quiet all year and putting the team ahead of his own interests (even though he knew he could contribute more).  The team was winning, so there was no reason to rock the boat.

I think the same Celtics team, possibly with Maggette, Andersen and Pruitt (playing more) can win it all next year, and be even better than last year.

It's insane to even think of trading Ray Allen.

I gave both of these guys TPs. Not that there's anything else left to say really, but I personally like Ray Allen a lot.

[kw10]

The only people I've ever heard say Ray Allen was unhappy with KG and Pierce's demeanor was sports writers from Minnesota and Los Angeles that were nowhere near any alleged situation.

Now they wouldn't be jealous would they?

I'm skeptical I'm pretty sure just about every NBA player has dropped an F-bomb or a GD before. Heck most fans do over a bad call.

Let's not panic just yet.

I'm not too sure about the issue of Ray being unhappy, but I think this would be the case.

Ray has sacrificed the most on this team, and to me I would really want to keep him for at least a couple more years. And I understand that there are not many reggie millers around (long-lasting sg), but I think it is still too early to talk about Ray being ineffective due to age. And for myself, I would rather not fan the flame nor see other fans do so(of course everyone have their own opinion and I can't stop- contributing to any trade talks/rumours involving him unless Ray actually wants to go) as IMO he deserves the same respect and due as PP and KG (I mean I don't see their names popping up in trade rumours).

I hope I don't sound too negative and get the wrong message across?

[timepiece33]

Ray looks real angry with Paul

http://cache.boston.com/images/sports/celtics/2008/06_18_08_bigthree_1024768.jpg

[kozlodoev]

This trade doesn't make any sense for the Clippers anyway. They would be left with too many SG's (Mobley, Gordon, Allen). Neither of whom are tall or bulky enough to play the 3.

Not like it makes any sense for the Celtics whatsoever -- we'll be stuck with 4 PFs -- Garnett, Brand, Powe, and Davis.

And it's not even happening, but that's another issue. Man, I hate the off-season.

Yeah Powe and Davis are really gonna get in the way of Brand's minutes...I think the idea is Brand would be your 5, Kg your 4... the reserves would fill in as reserves

I am beyond wasting time on arguing in this ridiculous topic either way. Take it for what it's worth.

[houlana]

first of all guys, this is rediculous.

i would not do this trade firstm because brand is a PF, where already have too many of those. we need the floor spacing for PP and KG to be most effetive at what they do. plus without Ray, the team would not have won this championship, the guy deserves more respect than this.

as for the talk of him not getting along with KG and PP. every team has those through a season, and they are professionals, whatever problems they have they will resolve between one another. trust me guys, after all the years of struggle these guys had, i dont think they would let a small personal problem break up the success they have going.

somebody mentioned earlier in the thread that KG and PP did interviews together in the playoffs without ray. that is the way it has been all yr long, KG and the captain after almost all the games.

[CoachBo]

It is ridiculous, and this summer's taken on a fantasy league kind of feel. This one's not going to happen and again, I'm not the slightest bit interested in it happening until someone tells me the condition of Brand's feet.

And for the record, the guy hasn't played since getting hurt and Ray Allen has - apples to oranges comparison.

Silly rumor.

[crownsy]

The only people I've ever heard say Ray Allen was unhappy with KG and Pierce's demeanor was sports writers from Minnesota and Los Angeles that were nowhere near any alleged situation.

Now they wouldn't be jealous would they?

I'm skeptical I'm pretty sure just about every NBA player has dropped an F-bomb or a GD before. Heck most fans do over a bad call.

Let's not panic just yet.

I'm not too sure about the issue of Ray being unhappy, but I think this would be the case.

Ray has sacrificed the most on this team, and to me I would really want to keep him for at least a couple more years. And I understand that there are not many reggie millers around (long-lasting sg), but I think it is still too early to talk about Ray being ineffective due to age. And for myself, I would rather not fan the flame nor see other fans do so(of course everyone have their own opinion and I can't stop- contributing to any trade talks/rumours involving him unless Ray actually wants to go) as IMO he deserves the same respect and due as PP and KG (I mean I don't see their names popping up in trade rumours).

I hope I don't sound too negative and get the wrong message across?

you don't see thier names in trade rumors because the aren't on short contracts. Trust me, if KG was due to expire in 2009, thier would be posts about it.

that said, its to early for this thread, if your going to trade ray, and i wouldn't unless its for a up and coming 2 gaurd, then you look to do it after next year, when his expiring contract makes him even more valuable.

[Roy Hobbs]

And for the record, the guy hasn't played since getting hurt and Ray Allen has - apples to oranges comparison.

Just for clarification, Brand did come back at the end of last season and play in eight games.  He averaged 17.6 points and 8.0 rebounds.

[CoachBo]

With pain, though, according to the broadcasters, Roy.

May well be that he's fine - but I've heard no public declaration of that.

[Brickowski]

Of course it's not going to happen.  It's just a hypothetical.

But if you are offered Elton Brand for Ray Allen you do it, so long as Brand can pass the physical.  You don't think about it, you don't wax sentimental about what a great guy Ray Allen is, you don't worry about dimished roles for Poew and BBD, none of that.  You just do it because Brand is a great player, and he's a great player where it matters-- in the paint.

[AINGE44]

If the C's are going to trade Allen

Celtics
  Ray Allen
6-5 SG from Connecticut
  Brian Scalabrine
6-9 PF from USC
Bucks
  Michael Redd
6-6 SG from Ohio State
  Charlie Villanueva
6-10 PF from Connecticut

Buck get Ray Allen and Scal plus cut payroll, C's get a younger SG (Redd) and a back up big for Perk and KG.

[cdif911]

Ray Looks like he's got a big boyhood crush on PP (thanks TimePiece for that link)