Author Topic: ray allen for elton brand  (Read 16491 times)

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Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2008, 06:11:35 PM »

Offline jay_jay54

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Absolutely not unless someone can convince me Brand's feet are OK.

Amazing no one has raised that issue in this thread.
Good point Coachbo...tp for it.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2008, 06:16:09 PM »

Offline cdif911

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Absolutely not unless someone can convince me Brand's feet are OK.

Amazing no one has raised that issue in this thread.
Good point Coachbo...tp for it.

I'm sure people in Clipperland may view Ray as being potentially damaged goods too....
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Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2008, 06:18:48 PM »

Offline Yakmanev

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The only people I've ever heard say Ray Allen was unhappy with KG and Pierce's demeanor was sports writers from Minnesota and Los Angeles that were nowhere near any alleged situation.

Now they wouldn't be jealous would they?

I'm skeptical I'm pretty sure just about every NBA player has dropped an F-bomb or a GD before. Heck most fans do over a bad call.

Let's not panic just yet.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2008, 06:24:12 PM »

Offline LB3533

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If we lose Posey and we are not in a rush to bring back House...how can we afford to lose Ray Allen?

We don't need Elton Brand.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #19 on: July 06, 2008, 06:30:15 PM »

Offline timepiece33

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The only people I've ever heard say Ray Allen was unhappy with KG and Pierce's demeanor was sports writers from Minnesota and Los Angeles that were nowhere near any alleged situation.

They looked really unhappy as they were celebrating the championship.   

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #20 on: July 06, 2008, 07:21:41 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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I could see us getting Kaman in some type of package. I just get the feeling that Danny feels the Celtics need a talented white guy. I don't think we could get Brand because Ray is simply not worth that much.

Interesting feeling you have there and I'm not sure why you'd go down that road.

I couldn't say you are correct or incorrect because I do not have a personal relationship with Danny Ainge, Doc Rivers or ownership and am not privvy to any of their private conversations. But you could count me among the shocked if anyone at any mangagement meeting in this regime EVER expressed the need to secure a talented white guy.  Can't picture it coming out of any their mouths.  I suppose its possible to have a 'feeling' with no rational back-up for the feeling, but it would be good if you make such a comment that there be at least a shred of evidence that this is part of the thinking on Causeway Street in 2008.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2008, 07:25:27 PM »

Offline KJR

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Ray Allen is a great player, and he seems like a great guy.  I can't believe anyone is suggesting trading him.  I don't think it's going to happen, and I don't think it should.

Donny Marshall probably knows Ray better than most, and he said that he was ecstatic to be here.

Kevin Garnett said that Sam, Ray and Paul were three of the people he was closest to in the league (along with Tyron Lue and Chauncy Billups), and it was like having three brothers on the team.

Someone reported that Garnett was visiting with Ray on Martha's Vineyard.  It's hard to believe there's any real tension between them.

Of course, when you play more than a hundred games together, and practice, take planes and eat together, there are going to be times when you get sick of someone.  If I spent that much time with my brother or best friend I would feel that way; so I don't think it's any big deal.

Ray has a different style.  He's quieter and doesn't seem to feel comfortable with all the attention.  (I think Rondo's similar.)  Paul has a different style.  But I think they all get along fine.  I doubt any of them want to leave.

As far as drafting the two young wing players, I think the Celtics just took the two best athletes they could get at those draft picks: the guys with the most upside (even though they risks).  I think it was a good decision, since the Celtics are a strong team.  I don't think they were viewing them as potential replacements for a starter; at most, they would be competing with Tony Allen.

As far as Maggette, he's the best FA available in their price range.  Why wouldn't you try to get a 20-plus/5-rebound guy, particularly if he's willing to come off the bench (and he's a few years younger).  I don't think there's any great mystery here; and I don't think it means they're trying to move a starter.

In terms of Ray's potential, I think he's got a lot of great ball still in him.  He showed that with a 48 minute performance and a lot of clutch scoring at the very end of a very long season.  He is clearly capable of a lot more, particularly if his minutes go down to the 32-minute range.

I think the Celtics really misused him for most of the season, and it was very difficult for him to get into a rhythm.  He's used to being the number one offensive option; this year, he was the third option, and often the fourth.  There were many games when Rondo put up 12 shots and Ray put up 6-8.  Of all the Celtics, Perk and Ray need touches in the first quarter.  Rondo, KG and Paul can all get their shots anytime.  There were plenty of games when Paul had completely different halves (same with Rondo, less so with KG).  But if Perk didn't get two scores in the first quarter, he often finished the game with 0 points and 2 rebounds.  If Perk got a couple scores early, he was capable of 10 and 12.  It was similar with Ray.  He was directing the offense.  He relied on others to find him.  If he was involved, he could have big games; if not, he sometimes disappeared.

After he complained publicly (in the playoffs), Rondo began looking for him every time in transition and got him a lot of open looks.  His scoring went up immediately, and his body language completely changed.  So, transition buckets and running plays for him are key.

The other thing is letting him drive.  I understand that most of the time he'll be at the three line to spread the floor and to make sure he's back on transition defense.  Most of the time the Celtics will play their "move the ball" offense, in which they make 2, 3, 4 passes and the open man shoots.  But 10-20% of the time, they need to vary the offense.  Sometimes the multiple pass offense isn't working; sometimes the matchups aren't favoring the other guys, or Ray isn't involved in the offense.  In this case, I think Doc needs to be a little less stubborn.  He needs to trust his veterans.  These guys have 30-plus years experience combined.  They have a feel for when they can (and need to) change things up.  When Ray is struggling, space the floor and let him drive a few times to the rim.  We all saw his reverse, double-pump layup, and his left-handed layup past Vujacic in Game 4 of the Finals.  He's capable of doing that a lot more.

I couldn't believe how many games during the season he had no free throws or only a couple.  The guy is a 91% FT shooter.  The chances of his making 2 points on FTs are .91 x .91 = 83%.  It's the highest percentage play the Celtics have.  There is no shot (other than a dunk) that is a better percentage play.  How many times was a Ray Allen drive blocked around the basket?  Maybe five times all season.  If he gets in the paint, he either kicks it out to a wide open three, he scores a layup, or he shoots FTs.

I think Rondo's a great player, and he's only going to get better; but there's no way he should consistently be shooting 12-14 shots (and House 8 and Posey 8) while Ray is shooting 6-8.

My point is: if he's not involved early in the game (the first six minutes), the Celtics should run plays for him and also space the floor and let him isolate and take several drives to the rim.

That's my only complaint with the Celtics all year.  When Perk and Ray are involved early, they are unbeatable and win games by 20-plus points.

I think Ray showed a lot of class and maturity by keeping quiet all year and putting the team ahead of his own interests (even though he knew he could contribute more).  The team was winning, so there was no reason to rock the boat.

I think the same Celtics team, possibly with Maggette, Andersen and Pruitt (playing more) can win it all next year, and be even better than last year.

It's insane to even think of trading Ray Allen.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2008, 07:26:56 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Weren't Ray and KG playing golf together a couple of days ago? Yep, Ray's quite unhappy being around him.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2008, 07:33:00 PM »

Offline Jon

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The trade isn't going to happen, so it's not worth discussing. 

As for the friction between Allen and Pierce and Garnett, I really don't know.  The only thing I did find interesting is that during the playoffs most of the times Pierce and Garnett did post game interviews together while Allen did them with someone else or by himself.  Still, just because they may not be the best of friends doesn't mean that they hate each other.  And even if they did hate each other, it doesn't mean they can't play basketball well together. 

Plus, I think this is much ado about nothing.  As someone already noted, apparently Allen and Garnett were playing golf together last week.  Hardly seems like a bad relationship. 

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2008, 07:33:18 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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I think JB really overstates the "Ray wasn't happy here" thing.  I follow the team as closely as anybody, and read the same articles as anybody else.  All three of the "big three" admitted to there being at times personality conflicts, but I can't remember a single article that suggested that Ray wasn't happy.

Anyway, as others have said, this trade makes close to zero sense for Los Angeles.  Sure I'd trade Ray's salary slot for Elton Brand, who is a younger and better player at a more valuable position.  However, LA wouldn't touch that offer.

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Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2008, 07:51:38 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Why do the Clippers do this move? 

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2008, 08:14:24 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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This trade doesn't make any sense for the Clippers anyway. They would be left with too many SG's (Mobley, Gordon, Allen). Neither of whom are tall or bulky enough to play the 3.
Not like it makes any sense for the Celtics whatsoever -- we'll be stuck with 4 PFs -- Garnett, Brand, Powe, and Davis.

And it's not even happening, but that's another issue. Man, I hate the off-season.
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Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2008, 08:42:13 PM »

Offline crownsy

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Why do the Clippers do this move? 

WDL, your forgetting that boson sports fans feel that other teams are willing to trade us anything for a bag of peanuts.

remember last year when coco was struggling and before jacoby came on strong to finish? this call hit WEEI

caller: "we should trade coco and a draft pick for torii hunter"

Host: Ummmmm....why would the twins trade us hunter for crisp and a late first round draft pick???

Caller: A draft pick is very valuable! i think the twins would jump all over that!
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Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2008, 09:00:16 PM »

Offline zerophase

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dude, when you bring 3 all stars together, its not going to be a perfect compliment with every thought and opinion. of course they had arguments and disagreements; thats a good thing. in the end though they all get along.

Become Legendary.

Re: ray allen for elton brand
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2008, 09:06:02 PM »

Offline cdif911

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This trade doesn't make any sense for the Clippers anyway. They would be left with too many SG's (Mobley, Gordon, Allen). Neither of whom are tall or bulky enough to play the 3.
Not like it makes any sense for the Celtics whatsoever -- we'll be stuck with 4 PFs -- Garnett, Brand, Powe, and Davis.

And it's not even happening, but that's another issue. Man, I hate the off-season.

Yeah Powe and Davis are really gonna get in the way of Brand's minutes...I think the idea is Brand would be your 5, Kg your 4... the reserves would fill in as reserves
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