Magette and Posey: Theory on the standstill

[Cman]

Can someone please explain to me how its possible to sign both of these players. I dont get it at all? I thought would could only use the full MLE on one player...so if we did...how would we pay for the other??? Say we maggette the fulle MLE..then how do we pay posey? Help please!






Edit: No all caps.
-IP

If Posey will take a discount, Cs can pay him by upping his current contract by 30%, and then still have the whole MLE to throw at Posey.  It is highly unlikely that the Cs will do this -- just way too much money.

There is a danger that Cs end up with neither of these two players (as Jeff aludes to on the main page), but ultimately I think the Cs end up with one of the two (I think it will be CM -- but that is just guess work on my part).

[gpds69]

alright, thanks! Ya, it would be nice to see both of them play here.....but i think getting Magette would be better in the long run. For one, he's young, athletic, he doesn't play Posey D, but he also doesn't play Eddie House D. We get him for 5 years...he could really replace Ray Ray in 2 years, or whenever his contract runs up.(im not sure how old he is, but im sure he could start here for a few more years after ray leaves) Then all the money that we are paying ray we could sign another free agent that year...

[Neurotic Guy]

How much cash are the Lakers willing to pay for borderline staters/role players at the 3?  Walton is on the books long-term for $25 million and Vlad Rad for 20.   Next year alone they have close to $30 million invested in the small forward slot (Odom, Walton, Ariza and Rad).  Another 5 for Posey?  Maybe.

I like the idea of San Antonio v. Boston for Maggette.  It means Maggette is accepting the MLE.  I believe that if Maggette is truly undecided, we have a great shot.  We lose with regard to weather, but try saying 'no' to Danny, Doc , KG and Pierce.  They are all charming, smart and full of energy -- they will 'sell' Corey on Boston if he is in fact their #1 target.   And BTW, I think Maggette will be great with the C's.  He may not give the 'D' and the clutch that Posey gave, but he is energetic, aggessive to the hoop -- an excellent scorer. And who knows, maybe in this system and with KG and TThib motivating him, he turns out to be a decent defender here.  Ray surprised me this year.  I also think Giddens has the tools to be a solid NBA defender.  

Either Maggette or Posey sound good to me.  

[rondofan1255]

I slightly prefer CM to Posey, but the edge is to a younger age, although I agree CM does get injured more; that could change in slightly limited minutes.

Also, in regards to the weather:

I've been to SA and Boston, and in the summer I think SA is way too humid. I agree about the winter, etc. though, but the weather is better in Boston sometimes.

[guava_wrench]

Can someone please explain to me how its possible to sign both of these players. I dont get it at all? I thought would could only use the full MLE on one player...so if we did...how would we pay for the other??? Say we maggette the fulle MLE..then how do we pay posey? Help please!

The only way to sign both would be extortion. Perhaps if we kidnap relatives. Otherwise, there is no way we can sign both Maggette and Posey.

Theoretically, we could sign Brand, Josh Smith, and Arenas if they all sign for part of the MLE, or LLE & Vet Min. This ideas are silly to discuss.

[GLS]

One thing SA has that there is no way Boston can match:

No state income tax.

I've always felt that Florida and Texas had a hidden advantage over other states when it came to free agency.  Not that it has always been taken advantage of by franchises in professional sports in those states.....but when you are making the MLE, the lack of a state income tax might be more enticing than performing in a state where there is one.

[indeedproceed]

How much cash are the Lakers willing to pay for borderline staters/role players at the 3?  Walton is on the books long-term for $25 million and Vlad Rad for 20.   Next year alone they have close to $30 million invested in the small forward slot (Odom, Walton, Ariza and Rad).  Another 5 for Posey?  Maybe.

I like the idea of San Antonio v. Boston for Maggette.  It means Maggette is accepting the MLE.  I believe that if Maggette is truly undecided, we have a great shot.  We lose with regard to weather, but try saying 'no' to Danny, Doc , KG and Pierce.  They are all charming, smart and full of energy -- they will 'sell' Corey on Boston if he is in fact their #1 target.   And BTW, I think Maggette will be great with the C's.  He may not give the 'D' and the clutch that Posey gave, but he is energetic, aggessive to the hoop -- an excellent scorer. And who knows, maybe in this system and with KG and TThib motivating him, he turns out to be a decent defender here.  Ray surprised me this year.  I also think Giddens has the tools to be a solid NBA defender. 

Either Maggette or Posey sound good to me. 

I think the best consequence of bringing Maggette in is that we no longer have to worry about where our points come from in the 'true' second unit (ie a unit without Pierce, Allen or Garnett). During the past season, we've had to rely on Eddie House's streaky shooting, Leon Powe's sudden outbursts of "gettin buckets" or Baby's crafty finagling around the hoop. The consistency of all those things pale in comparison to Maggette's scoring ability. Also, with another slasher out there in the second unit, if we sign Eddie House he'll have more room out on the 3 pt line, Posey and him might as well have paid rent out there on offense this season.

[LarBrd33]

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

So let me say my personal thoughts.  I loved Posey.  He hit a ton of threes... apparently was key to our defense, was clutch and offered tons of manhugs.   But I think paying him the full MLE would make him overpaid.  Just my personal opinion though. Especially at 4-5 years.  I forget where I read them, but one poster was providing some +/- numbers and some defensive statistics that kind of showed that Posey wasn't really that amazing in the playoffs.  I mean, stats don't show everything... but I also don't recall ever seeing Posey shut down LeBron or Kobe.  We needed Pierce for that.    Do I want Posey back?... yes.   Do I think he deserves 5 years 32 million?... not really.  Let some other team overpay him.  He's a role player.  He's a glue guy... but he wouldn't be my first option especially considering his age.  He also was a key character in our 2008 NBA Championship so I don't blame people for worrying about our chemistry and having attachment to the guy.   I'm just glad Ainge doesn't get swayed by this.

I love the Maggette idea.  I think he can learn to play defense in our system just as much as Ray has and every freakin player on this team has.  And his offense is far far superior to Posey.  He would strengthen our bench, allow us to tone down the minutes for Ray and Pierce (lengthening their careers in the process)... I just love the idea.  I'm really really hoping we get him and I think the attachment everyone has for Posey is making them underrate how awesome it would be to be adding a guy in his prime who is basically a borderline allstar to our bench.  The guy averaged 22 and 6 last year.  Yes, I know stats aren't everything.   But if you're looking for reference... KG ranked #9 in statistical efficiency last year, Paul Pierce ranked #36, Maggette ranked #45, Ray Allen ranked #80 and Rondo ranked #98. 

Speaking on Posey though... we COULD feasibly end up getting both of them if Posey accepted the 3 year 12 million (the max we can give him without giving him the MLE... a "non bird rights" contract that I explained earlier) and also get Maggette by giving him the full MLE.   But even if Posey felt he was underpaid there are other options for him if he decides to go that route.   I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this next part (I was discussing it at length with Roy Hobbs a couple days ago).   If we give Posey an player option to opt out after the first year of his contract here is what could happen.  Say he takes the 3.8 million this year.  Next year he becomes a free agent.  We still don't have his bird rights, because he has only been here 2 years (need 3 years to gain full bird rights).   But apparently there is something Roy was explaining called "early bird rights"... basically it's a chance to give the player a 80% increase on his contract.   So if those figures are right here is the scenario:

We offer him 3 years 12 million (he made 3.2 last year... 20% increase gives him 3.8 for first year of his new contract.  8% increase gives him 4.1 his second year.  8% increase gives him 4.4 his third year).   Say he gets injured... he has a 3 year deal that he can stick with and still get paid the next two years while he festers on our disabled  list.    But say he's still an effective and attractive player at the end next season.  Give him a player option.  He could opt out.   Then we can offer him and 80% increase.  Which means his contract for 09-10 would start at 6.8 million (his early bird rights).    Then of course after that season he would have full bird rights and we could literally sign him to anything...

So Posey still has the potential to make 3.8 million from us this year... 6.8 million next year... and X million+ the year after that (basically anything) if he plays well and demands the money.    This would have absolutely NO effect on our MLE.   We could do all of that while still signing Maggette to 5 years 32 million.   Just an option  

[indeedproceed]

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

So let me say my personal thoughts.  I loved Posey.  He hit a ton of threes... apparently was key to our defense, was clutch and offered tons of manhugs.   But I think paying him the full MLE would make him overpaid.  Just my personal opinion though. Especially at 4-5 years.  I forget where I read them, but one poster was providing some +/- numbers and some defensive statistics that kind of showed that Posey wasn't really that amazing in the playoffs.  I mean, stats don't show everything... but I also don't recall ever seeing Posey shut down LeBron or Kobe.  We needed Pierce for that.    Do I want Posey back?... yes.   Do I think he deserves 5 years 32 million?... not really.  Let some other team overpay him.  He's a role player.  He's a glue guy... but he wouldn't be my first option especially considering his age.

I love the Maggette idea.  I think he can learn to play defense in our system just as much as Ray has and every freakin player on this team has.  And his offense is far far superior to Posey.  He would strengthen our bench, allow us to tone down the minutes for Ray and Pierce (lengthening their careers in the process)... I just love the idea.  I'm really really hoping we get him and I think the attachment everyone has for Posey is making them underrate how awesome it would be to be adding a guy in his prime who is basically a borderline allstar to our bench.

Speaking on Posey though... we COULD feasibly end up getting both of them if Posey accepted the 3 year 12 million (the max we can give him without giving him the MLE... a "non bird rights" contract that I explained earlier) and also get Maggette by giving him the full MLE.   But even if Posey felt he was underpaid there are other options for him if he decides to go that route.   I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this next part (I was discussing it at length with Roy Hobbs a couple days ago).   If we give Posey an player option to opt out after the first year of his contract here is what could happen.  Say he takes the 3.8 million this year.  Next year he becomes a free agent.  We still don't have his bird rights, because he has only been here 2 years (need 3 years to gain full bird rights).   But apparently there is something Roy was explaining called "early bird rights"... basically it's a chance to give the player a 80% increase on his contract.   So if those figures are right here is the scenario:

We offer him 3 years 12 million (he made 3.2 last year... 20% increase gives him 3.8 for first year of his new contract.  8% increase gives him 4.1 his second year.  8% increase gives him 4.4 his third year).   Say he gets injured... he has a 3 year deal that he can stick with and still get paid the next two years while he festers on our disabled  list.    But say he's still an effective and attractive player at the end next season.  Give him a player option.  He could opt out.   Then we can offer him and 80% increase.  Which means his contract for 09-10 would start at 6.8 million (his early bird rights).    Then of course after that season he would have full bird rights and we could literally sign him to anything...

So Posey still has the potential to make 3.8 million from us this year... 6.8 million next year... and X million+ the year after that (basically anything) if he plays well and demands the money.    This would have absolutely NO effect on our MLE.   We could do all of that while still signing Maggette to 5 years 32 million.   Just an option  

Thank you very much for explaining that. TPs because it never made sense before now. That would be really cool if we did it, but I still think Bartlestein and Posey are tired of waiting for the payday, after already waiting a year. He's gonna get that 5.8. Also, doesnt having one of Posey/Maggette make the other redundant? I know they play different types of games, but neither is a 2 and neither is a 4, so how many minutes can we even offer at the backup 3 to either of them?

[MBunge]

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

If that's what he's doing, trying to grab both Posey and CM would be a really aggressive move by Ainge.  I salute him, but when push comes to shove I hope he's smart enough to give Pose the full MLE for 3 or 4 years to keep him.  I'd rather keep the core of the team intact and try and fill holes than let Pose walk and open up another one (needing a big SF in addition to back-up C and back-up PG).

Mike

[LarBrd33]

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

So let me say my personal thoughts.  I loved Posey.  He hit a ton of threes... apparently was key to our defense, was clutch and offered tons of manhugs.   But I think paying him the full MLE would make him overpaid.  Just my personal opinion though. Especially at 4-5 years.  I forget where I read them, but one poster was providing some +/- numbers and some defensive statistics that kind of showed that Posey wasn't really that amazing in the playoffs.  I mean, stats don't show everything... but I also don't recall ever seeing Posey shut down LeBron or Kobe.  We needed Pierce for that.    Do I want Posey back?... yes.   Do I think he deserves 5 years 32 million?... not really.  Let some other team overpay him.  He's a role player.  He's a glue guy... but he wouldn't be my first option especially considering his age.

I love the Maggette idea.  I think he can learn to play defense in our system just as much as Ray has and every freakin player on this team has.  And his offense is far far superior to Posey.  He would strengthen our bench, allow us to tone down the minutes for Ray and Pierce (lengthening their careers in the process)... I just love the idea.  I'm really really hoping we get him and I think the attachment everyone has for Posey is making them underrate how awesome it would be to be adding a guy in his prime who is basically a borderline allstar to our bench.

Speaking on Posey though... we COULD feasibly end up getting both of them if Posey accepted the 3 year 12 million (the max we can give him without giving him the MLE... a "non bird rights" contract that I explained earlier) and also get Maggette by giving him the full MLE.   But even if Posey felt he was underpaid there are other options for him if he decides to go that route.   I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this next part (I was discussing it at length with Roy Hobbs a couple days ago).   If we give Posey an player option to opt out after the first year of his contract here is what could happen.  Say he takes the 3.8 million this year.  Next year he becomes a free agent.  We still don't have his bird rights, because he has only been here 2 years (need 3 years to gain full bird rights).   But apparently there is something Roy was explaining called "early bird rights"... basically it's a chance to give the player a 80% increase on his contract.   So if those figures are right here is the scenario:

We offer him 3 years 12 million (he made 3.2 last year... 20% increase gives him 3.8 for first year of his new contract.  8% increase gives him 4.1 his second year.  8% increase gives him 4.4 his third year).   Say he gets injured... he has a 3 year deal that he can stick with and still get paid the next two years while he festers on our disabled  list.    But say he's still an effective and attractive player at the end next season.  Give him a player option.  He could opt out.   Then we can offer him and 80% increase.  Which means his contract for 09-10 would start at 6.8 million (his early bird rights).    Then of course after that season he would have full bird rights and we could literally sign him to anything...

So Posey still has the potential to make 3.8 million from us this year... 6.8 million next year... and X million+ the year after that (basically anything) if he plays well and demands the money.    This would have absolutely NO effect on our MLE.   We could do all of that while still signing Maggette to 5 years 32 million.   Just an option  

Thank you very much for explaining that. TPs because it never made sense before now. That would be really cool if we did it, but I still think Bartlestein and Posey are tired of waiting for the payday, after already waiting a year. He's gonna get that 5.8. Also, doesnt having one of Posey/Maggette make the other redundant? I know they play different types of games, but neither is a 2 and neither is a 4, so how many minutes can we even offer at the backup 3 to either of them?

My opinion on that is no.  One is obviously seen as defense first and the other is seen as offense.   I think Tony Allen is basically gone, right?   Allen and Posey combined for 42 minutes a game in the regular season.  I've used this stat to explain how Maggette could be played as a Manu or Ben Gordon off the bench easily getting 30+ minutes, but it's also relevant to how we could get minutes to both Maggette and Posey depending on matchups.

I understand that Posey's agent will look for a 4-5 year deal starting at 5.8 million.  That certainly makes sense.  The guy wants to get paid.   But I'm just explaining the options there.  I think the Celtics still have holes on this team.  I'm actually surprised we aren't desperately trying to get a 7 foot backup, but there aren't really any big time big men backups in this free agent class who deserve the full MLE.  I mean in previous years you'd have someone like Antonio McDyess getting this kind of money (not 7 feet, but you get my point).  I think the Maggette thing is akin to Ainge heading into the draft needing a center, but instead taking the obvious "best player available".  Maggette is a hell of a player.  Obviously giving him the full MLE (UNDERPAID) is a no brainer.   We could always end up moving him mid season for serious value.  I don't think the same can be said about Posey.    So basically, I think Ainge really wants to keep Posey, but wants to also use that MLE to strengthen the rest of our team.   I expected this approach all along, because I assumed Ainge would ideally want to sign Posey to the max we can and then give the MLE to a player or PLAYERS.  Perhaps splitting the MLE among a big man like Alonzo/Birdman and a swingman like Darius Miles/Pieres... or even using part of it to give to a guy like Chris Duhon.   It makes perfect sense that Ainge would want to avoid giving the full MLE to Posey, you know?

But from Posey's standpoint and his agent's standpoint... he still has the potential to get paid a ton of money in Boston.  I understand he wants security and the big payday now, but lets imagine for a second that Posey continues to play at a high level for the next few years.   He could easily make 3.8 million from us this year (non bird rights), 6.8 million the year after that (early bird rights)... and a contract starting at 7-15 million the year after (full bird rights).  If he was loyal to Boston and Boston was loyal to him... it's always a possibility.

[LarBrd33]

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

If that's what he's doing, trying to grab both Posey and CM would be a really aggressive move by Ainge.  I salute him, but when push comes to shove I hope he's smart enough to give Pose the full MLE for 3 or 4 years to keep him.  I'd rather keep the core of the team intact and try and fill holes than let Pose walk and open up another one (needing a big SF in addition to back-up C and back-up PG).

Mike

As I explained in my last post... it doesn't even just mean he wants Posey and CM.  He probably wants Posey... and then even if CM signs with the Spurs we would still have that MLE to split.  We could give a little to a big man ... a little to a backup guard.... a little to a swing man.   Keep Posey and get Duhon/Birdman .... keep Posey and get Zo/Miles ... who knows.   It's interesting to note that we split the MLE last year... which is why Posey's contract started at 3.2 million instead of 5.8.  I think we gave the rest to Scott Pollard or something (or House.  Or maybe it was to Glen Davis.  Not sure.  But I know we split it last year).

Ainge is just doing his job and trying to strengthen this team.  It's not about lowballing or disrespecting.   I'm sure if we were able to give both Posey AND CM contracts starting at 6 million, Ainge would jump at the opportunity and I imagine the owners would go for it also.  We aren't a cheap team anymore.  WE'll do what it takes to keep winning championships.  I know it's easy to just say, "Give Posey the full MLE", but I would much rather we find a way to keep Posey and use the MLE to strengthen this team.  We have some holes.  We need scoring off the bench, we need a backup big man and we need a capable backup for Rondo.  I'm not sure we can get those holes all filled by just signing people to the vet minimum. 

[indeedproceed]

It seems like Danny is trying to use part of the MLE to sign Bill Walker or  some FA. I think He gave Posey a low ball offer so he can use the other money elsewhere. I think Mark Bartelstein is set on him getting paid the full MLE. I think Posey will take the 3 year full MLE deal on the 9th(or whenever they can sign). Its been said he wants a 4 or 5 year deal but I think he's going to stay with us. Posey was an emotional leader this year and I doubt he would want to play anywhere else after last season.

The reason for the "low ball" offer is that Ainge is simply offering Posey the maximum amount he can WITHOUT using the MLE.   Basically since Posey made 3.2 million last year we can give him a 20% increase which makes the first year salary on his new contract 3.8 million... then it can go up 8% each year after that.  So roughly 4.1 the second year and 4.4 the third year.  These are my own figures but it adds up to 3 years 12 million which is the number the Herald mentioned. 

So let me say my personal thoughts.  I loved Posey.  He hit a ton of threes... apparently was key to our defense, was clutch and offered tons of manhugs.   But I think paying him the full MLE would make him overpaid.  Just my personal opinion though. Especially at 4-5 years.  I forget where I read them, but one poster was providing some +/- numbers and some defensive statistics that kind of showed that Posey wasn't really that amazing in the playoffs.  I mean, stats don't show everything... but I also don't recall ever seeing Posey shut down LeBron or Kobe.  We needed Pierce for that.    Do I want Posey back?... yes.   Do I think he deserves 5 years 32 million?... not really.  Let some other team overpay him.  He's a role player.  He's a glue guy... but he wouldn't be my first option especially considering his age.

I love the Maggette idea.  I think he can learn to play defense in our system just as much as Ray has and every freakin player on this team has.  And his offense is far far superior to Posey.  He would strengthen our bench, allow us to tone down the minutes for Ray and Pierce (lengthening their careers in the process)... I just love the idea.  I'm really really hoping we get him and I think the attachment everyone has for Posey is making them underrate how awesome it would be to be adding a guy in his prime who is basically a borderline allstar to our bench.

Speaking on Posey though... we COULD feasibly end up getting both of them if Posey accepted the 3 year 12 million (the max we can give him without giving him the MLE... a "non bird rights" contract that I explained earlier) and also get Maggette by giving him the full MLE.   But even if Posey felt he was underpaid there are other options for him if he decides to go that route.   I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this next part (I was discussing it at length with Roy Hobbs a couple days ago).   If we give Posey an player option to opt out after the first year of his contract here is what could happen.  Say he takes the 3.8 million this year.  Next year he becomes a free agent.  We still don't have his bird rights, because he has only been here 2 years (need 3 years to gain full bird rights).   But apparently there is something Roy was explaining called "early bird rights"... basically it's a chance to give the player a 80% increase on his contract.   So if those figures are right here is the scenario:

We offer him 3 years 12 million (he made 3.2 last year... 20% increase gives him 3.8 for first year of his new contract.  8% increase gives him 4.1 his second year.  8% increase gives him 4.4 his third year).   Say he gets injured... he has a 3 year deal that he can stick with and still get paid the next two years while he festers on our disabled  list.    But say he's still an effective and attractive player at the end next season.  Give him a player option.  He could opt out.   Then we can offer him and 80% increase.  Which means his contract for 09-10 would start at 6.8 million (his early bird rights).    Then of course after that season he would have full bird rights and we could literally sign him to anything...

So Posey still has the potential to make 3.8 million from us this year... 6.8 million next year... and X million+ the year after that (basically anything) if he plays well and demands the money.    This would have absolutely NO effect on our MLE.   We could do all of that while still signing Maggette to 5 years 32 million.   Just an option  

Thank you very much for explaining that. TPs because it never made sense before now. That would be really cool if we did it, but I still think Bartlestein and Posey are tired of waiting for the payday, after already waiting a year. He's gonna get that 5.8. Also, doesnt having one of Posey/Maggette make the other redundant? I know they play different types of games, but neither is a 2 and neither is a 4, so how many minutes can we even offer at the backup 3 to either of them?

My opinion on that is no.  One is obviously seen as defense first and the other is seen as offense.   I think Tony Allen is basically gone, right?   Allen and Posey combined for 42 minutes a game in the regular season.  I've used this stat to explain how Maggette could be played as a Manu or Ben Gordon off the bench easily getting 30+ minutes, but it's also relevant to how we could get minutes to both Maggette and Posey depending on matchups.

I understand that Posey's agent will look for a 4-5 year deal starting at 5.8 million.  That certainly makes sense.  The guy wants to get paid.   But I'm just explaining the options there.  I think the Celtics still have holes on this team.  I'm actually surprised we aren't desperately trying to get a 7 foot backup, but there aren't really any big time big men backups in this free agent class who deserve the full MLE.  I mean in previous years you'd have someone like Antonio McDyess getting this kind of money (not 7 feet, but you get my point).  I think the Maggette thing is akin to Ainge heading into the draft needing a center, but instead taking the obvious "best player available".  Maggette is a hell of a player.  Obviously giving him the full MLE (UNDERPAID) is a no brainer.   We could always end up moving him mid season for serious value.  I don't think the same can be said about Posey.    So basically, I think Ainge really wants to keep Posey, but wants to also use that MLE to strengthen the rest of our team.   I expected this approach all along, because I assumed Ainge would ideally want to sign Posey to the max we can and then give the MLE to a player or PLAYERS.  Perhaps splitting the MLE among a big man like Alonzo/Birdman and a swingman like Darius Miles/Pieres... or even using part of it to give to a guy like Chris Duhon.   It makes perfect sense that Ainge would want to avoid giving the full MLE to Posey, you know?

But from Posey's standpoint and his agent's standpoint... he still has the potential to get paid a ton of money in Boston.  I understand he wants security and the big payday now, but lets imagine for a second that Posey continues to play at a high level for the next few years.   He could easily make 3.8 million from us this year (non bird rights), 6.8 million the year after that (early bird rights)... and a contract starting at 7-15 million the year after (full bird rights).  If he was loyal to Boston and Boston was loyal to him... it's always a possibility.

I disagree that Maggette is a good option at the 2 for us. He's a 3/4/2 not so much a 3/2 or 2/3. I guess though that having swingmen of Maggette/Posey in the second unit isn't such a terrible thing.

[MBunge]

I know it's easy to just say, "Give Posey the full MLE", but I would much rather we find a way to keep Posey and use the MLE to strengthen this team.  We have some holes.  We need scoring off the bench, we need a backup big man and we need a capable backup for Rondo.  I'm not sure we can get those holes all filled by just signing people to the vet minimum. 

Everybody would love to be able to sign Posey and someone else by splitting the MLE.  The problem is that might not be an option.  I can't imagine some team isn't going to offer Posey a full MLE deal after the way the performed in the playoffs.  The only question will be for how many years.

So, I'd rather they sign Maggette to a 5 year full MLE deal than Posey but if 3 years full MLE is what it will take to keep Pose, I think you have to do it.

Mike

[indeedproceed]

I know it's easy to just say, "Give Posey the full MLE", but I would much rather we find a way to keep Posey and use the MLE to strengthen this team.  We have some holes.  We need scoring off the bench, we need a backup big man and we need a capable backup for Rondo.  I'm not sure we can get those holes all filled by just signing people to the vet minimum. 

Everybody would love to be able to sign Posey and someone else by splitting the MLE.  The problem is that might not be an option.  I can't imagine some team isn't going to offer Posey a full MLE deal after the way the performed in the playoffs.  The only question will be for how many years.

So, I'd rather they sign Maggette to a 5 year full MLE deal than Posey but if 3 years full MLE is what it will take to keep Pose, I think you have to do it.

Mike

I agree with that, although because virtually all of my serious posts today have centered around Maggette/Posey, Im beginning to think the Duke man is a pretty awesome option, even if Posey can be had.