Author Topic: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)  (Read 15403 times)

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Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2008, 06:27:17 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

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Miles' was owed about 9-10M for the next few years from Portland, but doctors concluded he had an injury bad enough to be labeled as "career ending" so they were able to void his contract, I believe... However, if someone signs Miles' and he plays ten games Portland is then obligated to pay the rest of his salary from his last contract.

No, they didn't void his contract. It is being paid out via an insurance company.  Miles still gets the money. But if his injury is not, in fact, "career ending" the insurance company no logner has to pay, but the Blazers do.  Hence he goes back on their cap.

If Miles is able to perform, my guess is that the insurance company will allege fraud and try to recoup whatever it has paid out on the policy.  I suppose the Blazers could try to find another doctor also willing to say that the injury is "career ending," but that's tough to do if he's out there running and jumping.

How can anybody say what the obligations of the team vs. insurance company, without having read the insurance contract?  There's absolutely no way for you to know what the independent obligations of either the insurance company or the team are, without having read that contract.

Also, if an insurance company's doctor determined Miles' injury was career-ending, and the Trailblazers did not mislead the insurance company in any way, there is absolute no chance that an insurance company would be successful in a lawsuit for fraud against Portland.  Zero chance.  They may or may not have rights to go after Miles (again, only if he mislead them), but a fraud lawsuit against him would be extraordinarily difficult to prove, as well.  I'm sure the insurance company covered itself for contingencies, but there's no fraud here.

Also, whether or not an independent insurance company makes a determination of Miles' ability to play has nothing to do with the salary cap.  Instead, that situation is covered by the CBA.

Here's the rule on it:

Quote
There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary.  This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing.  There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.  If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary.  For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary).  This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief.  Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

Reading this, I would assume several things need to happen:

1) The player needs to retire with an injury;

2) A league physician needs to determine the injury is career-ending;

3) A year needs to expire.

After all of that, the team can apply for cap relief.  As far as we know, none of that has happened, and Miles is still on Portland's cap.

There doesn't appear to be a mechanism for putting a player's salary back on a team's cap once it's off.

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Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2008, 08:03:35 PM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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i do hope the celtics sign both posey and maggette. that would guarantee a repeat championship, and, it aint my money.

in the debate of which of them should be signed, if only one can be signed, i prefer maggette but like posey.

posey offers:
1. defense,
2. 3pt shooting.

in terms of 3 pt shooting, last year Posey shot at 38.0%, Maggette at 38.4%. No real difference.

Maggette's defense will not be as good as Posey, no doubt. but then again, pierce's defense was pretty strong with the new schemes the celtics put in place. so while Maggette's man-to-man defense may not measure up to Posey's, he could still be a good team defender. if he is willing to take a pay cut to play for a championship team, i believe he will be willing to play better defense than he as so far.

Maggette, similar to Pierce, is a good scorer, must better than Posey. His presense off the bench will help considerably. Few starters in the NBA can stop Maggette from scoring. Even fewer off the benches can stop him.

If the celtics sign either of these two, i am happy.  if they sign both i am delighted.


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Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2008, 09:27:48 PM »

Offline cordobes

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http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

=/ What do those commenters mean on the Blazers blog?




Miles' was owed about 9-10M for the next few years from Portland, but doctors concluded he had an injury bad enough to be labeled as "career ending" so they were able to void his contract, I believe... However, if someone signs Miles' and he plays ten games Portland is then obligated to pay the rest of his salary from his last contract.

No, they didn't void his contract. It is being paid out via an insurance company.  Miles still gets the money. But if his injury is not, in fact, "career ending" the insurance company no logner has to pay, but the Blazers do.  Hence he goes back on their cap.

If Miles is able to perform, my guess is that the insurance company will allege fraud and try to recoup whatever it has paid out on the policy.  I suppose the Blazers could try to find another doctor also willing to say that the injury is "career ending," but that's tough to do if he's out there running and jumping.

How can anybody say what the obligations of the team vs. insurance company, without having read the insurance contract?  There's absolutely no way for you to know what the independent obligations of either the insurance company or the team are, without having read that contract.

Also, if an insurance company's doctor determined Miles' injury was career-ending, and the Trailblazers did not mislead the insurance company in any way, there is absolute no chance that an insurance company would be successful in a lawsuit for fraud against Portland.  Zero chance.  They may or may not have rights to go after Miles (again, only if he mislead them), but a fraud lawsuit against him would be extraordinarily difficult to prove, as well.  I'm sure the insurance company covered itself for contingencies, but there's no fraud here.

Also, whether or not an independent insurance company makes a determination of Miles' ability to play has nothing to do with the salary cap.  Instead, that situation is covered by the CBA.

Here's the rule on it:

Quote
There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary.  This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing.  There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief.  If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary.  For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary).  This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief.  Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

Reading this, I would assume several things need to happen:

1) The player needs to retire with an injury;

2) A league physician needs to determine the injury is career-ending;

3) A year needs to expire.

After all of that, the team can apply for cap relief.  As far as we know, none of that has happened, and Miles is still on Portland's cap.

There doesn't appear to be a mechanism for putting a player's salary back on a team's cap once it's off.

I think the first two requirements already happened:
Quote
Miles underwent surgery in December 2005 and then had microfracture surgery in November 2006 and has missed every game over the last two seasons.

An independent medical examiner jointly appointed by the NBA and the NBA Players' Association examined Miles and determined that the damage to his right knee is severe enough to qualify as a career-ending injury.

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker.com/default.aspx?s=nba-news-display&nid=A74689871208221034A

Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2008, 08:29:26 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Cross Patrick O'Bryant off the list:

Quote
The Celtics continued their search for a big man by working out Patrick O'Bryant, Golden State's first-round pick (ninth overall) out of Bradley in 2006.

The 7-foot center showed decent range and solid footwork taking feeds in the post. But when he hit the low post against Wisconsin's Brian Butch and Detroit Mercy's Ryvon Covile, who had each been practicing since 9 in the morning, O'Bryant was tugging at his shorts not even 15 minutes into the drill, struggling to muster enough strength to defend either.

Link.

If he's that out of shape, we don't need him.

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Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2008, 10:33:47 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Cross Patrick O'Bryant off the list:

Quote
The Celtics continued their search for a big man by working out Patrick O'Bryant, Golden State's first-round pick (ninth overall) out of Bradley in 2006.

The 7-foot center showed decent range and solid footwork taking feeds in the post. But when he hit the low post against Wisconsin's Brian Butch and Detroit Mercy's Ryvon Covile, who had each been practicing since 9 in the morning, O'Bryant was tugging at his shorts not even 15 minutes into the drill, struggling to muster enough strength to defend either.

Link.

If he's that out of shape, we don't need him.


Yep.   GS has made him soft. 

Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2008, 10:47:37 AM »

Offline RebusRankin

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Wow tired after 15 minutes. Thats horrible. Yet another reason I wish I was 7 feet tall. I'd be rich.  ;D I mean I can practice for 25 minutes without tiring.  ;)

Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2008, 11:34:38 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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Re: C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2008, 02:30:04 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Yeah.  If you can't defend Brian Butch without getting exhausted, good luck against Amare.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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