C’s work on Posey, work out others (some interesting names)

[timepiece33]

yep.

But that does become a problem for the Celtics if other players they want as fall backs start signing.   I hope he lets them know what MLE he is going to except if he doesn't get a bigger offer. 

At this point, I think Danny should continue negotiations with Posey and if he can come to an agreement with the MLE ... just move forward.   If Posey doesn't look like he is going to come to an agreement, start talking to Pietrus.   Same concept.   I don't let the potential of Maggette impact next season if Posey OR Pietrus is willing to come to an agreement.  Like it or not, we have the stars on this team.  I like Maggette, but flirting with him could be a very dangerous move in terms of opportunity costs.

[P2]

Maggette has said in today's paper that he would like to get it done quickly with us, and that he understand we're still waiting for a Posey decision. But we won't wait until July 8, because by that time Maggette will have received our full MLE for 4 or 5 years offer.

[cordobes]

I would be all for giving Darius Miles a chance. At this point in his career,  Miles is a high reward low risk player. You sign miles for the minimum, if he slips up, you cut him.

Teams over the luxury tax threshold usually don't make that kind of gambles. They're too expensive.

Two years ago, Miles suffered a serious right-knee injury, and a doctor jointly appointed by the NBA and the NBA Players Association examined Miles and determined that the damage is severe enough to qualify as a career-ending injury.

“The doctors had actually said…‘if you were my son, I’d never have you pick up a basketball again,'” Pritchard told KPAM 860 early Monday evening. “I’m the kind of GM (that) I wouldn’t want that on my head that he ever had to have knee replacement.”

Miles hasn't played in an NBA game in two years after undergoing two surgeries on his right knee in the span of 13 months. Several times during his rehabilitation, Miles said he was ready to play but complained that the organization was holding him back. The team, however, wanted Miles to meet certain criteria, such as conditioning tests and full-contact practices, before clearing him to play.

Miles never passed those tests, and after suffering an Achilles' tendon strain in December during his latest comeback attempt, the team followed a procedure in the league's collective bargaining agreement and applied for an independent doctor to determine if Miles' injuries were career-ending.

I like the chance of screwing Portland though. Unfortunately, I don't think it could work: they can ask for a medical re-examination of his knee after we waive him and if the doctors reach the same conclusion, his salary would be out of their books again.

[timepiece33]

Teams over the luxury tax threshold usually don't make that kind of gambles. They're too expensive.

Are there any provisions in basketball about minimum contracts and the cap?     

I know in other sports, there are exceptions because minimum contracts for vets are higher than rookies and they didn't want to lose those jobs.

Maggette has said in today's paper that he would like to get it done quickly with us, and that he understand we're still waiting for a Posey decision. But we won't wait until July 8, because by that time Maggette will have received our full MLE for 4 or 5 years offer.

Did he say quickly?  Where?  When?

[Roy Hobbs]

Teams over the luxury tax threshold usually don't make that kind of gambles. They're too expensive.

Are there any provisions in basketball about minimum contracts and the cap?

The minimum salary is different for each player depending upon their years of service time.  This season, the rookie minimum is $442,114, whereas the minimum for a ten year vet is $1,262,275.  Despite that, if a team signs a veteran with 2+ years experience to the roster, they are only responsible for the salary obligation for a 2-year veteran's minimum, which this year is $797,581.  The league pays the rest.

That's not as clear as I'd like it to be, so let me use an example:

The team signs Alonzo Mourning.  As a 10+ year vet, he earns $1,262,275.  However, of that amount, the Celtics are only responsible for the first $797,581.  This is also the amount that counts against their salary cap and the luxury tax.  The NBA itself then chips in the remaining $464,694 to Mourning.

[Evantime34]

From the globe article today it seems clear that Maggette is a higher priority for the Celtics than Posey (due to the C's not wanting to give Posey the full MLE). I actually think that he should be but it seems that on this site people are firmly in the opposite camp. IMO I think we will sign Maggette and not Posey. As far as the other free agents go I like Birdman, Harrison (who would be a good big body to backup Perk). I've always loved D-Miles but isn't his thing that he's super atheltic, dunks a lot and can't shoot a lick. If he's not as athletic anymore doesn't that mean he won't be as effective?

[rondofan1255]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

=/ What do those commenters mean on the Blazers blog?

[RebusRankin]

How exactly does it work with Miles and Portland's cap space? If he's signed to say a minimum deal and then plays ten games does that mean his contract goes back on Portland's books and they lose millions in cap space?

If it does wouldn't it benefit a Western Conference rival to do so to screw up Portland's cap space?

[lon3lytoaster]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

=/ What do those commenters mean on the Blazers blog?

Miles' was owed about 9-10M for the next few years from Portland, but doctors concluded he had an injury bad enough to be labeled as "career ending" so they were able to void his contract, I believe... However, if someone signs Miles' and he plays ten games Portland is then obligated to pay the rest of his salary from his last contract.

[BudweiserCeltic]

How exactly does it work with Miles and Portland's cap space? If he's signed to say a minimum deal and then plays ten games does that mean his contract goes back on Portland's books and they lose millions in cap space?

If it does wouldn't it benefit a Western Conference rival to do so to screw up Portland's cap space?

Here's some reading that may be of interest. By the looks of it the ammount still counts towards their salary cap, or at least a good portion of it. I don't know the exact details of Miles' situation though:

54.  What are waivers?

It's a temporary status for players who are released by their team.  A player released between August 15th and the end of the regular season stays on waivers for 48 hours.  A player released at any other time stays on waivers for seven days.  During the waiver period other teams may claim a waived player.  If more than one team tries to claim the player, the team with the worst record gets him.  If a player on waivers is claimed, the new team acquires his existing contract and pays the remainder of his salary.  There is also a fee of $1,000, payable to the league office, for claiming a waived player.
A team can claim a waived player only if one of the following is true:

The team is far enough under the salary cap to fit the player's entire salary.


The team has a Disabled Player exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 19).


The team has a Traded Player exception for at least the player's salary (see question number 69).


The player's contract is for one or two seasons and he is paid the minimum salary.
If no team claims a waived player, he is said to have "cleared waivers."  The player may sign with a new team of his choice, and the player's prior team continues to pay the guaranteed portion of the terminated contract (see question number 90 for more information).  The player's salary with his new team is a matter of negotiation.  Few players are actually claimed while on waivers, since the team claiming a waived player inherits his entire contract.  It is far more common for teams to wait for the player to clear waivers, and then sign him to a much smaller (even minimum salary) contract.

If a player is waived after March 1, he is ineligible to be included in the playoff roster of any team that signs him for the remainder of that season.

If a team trades a player and the player is waived by the receiving team, the player's original team cannot re-sign that player for 30 days (during the season) or 20 days (during the offseason) following the date of the trade.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

55.  Do released players count against the cap?  What is set-off?

Released (waived) players with guaranteed contracts continue to be included in team salary.  Players whose contracts are not guaranteed are included in team salary in the amount they made while they were with the team.  Players on non-guaranteed "summer contracts" are not included in team salary unless they make the regular season roster.

The team and player may negotiate a revised payment schedule to be utilized in the event the player is waived.  This revised payment schedule may call for the guaranteed portion of the player's contract to be paid over a longer or shorter period of time than originally specified in the contract, or even as a lump sum.  This is often referred to as a "spread provision."  Also see question numbers 59 and 60.  Even if the payment schedule is altered, the team's team salary is charged for the same number of seasons as specified in the original contract.


If another team signs a released player who had a guaranteed contract (as long as the player has cleared waivers -- see question number 54), the player's original team is allowed to reduce the amount of money they still owe the player (and lower their team salary) by a commensurate amount (this is called the right of set-off).  This is true if the player signs with any professional team -- it doesn't even have to be an NBA team.  The amount the original team gets to set off is limited to one-half the difference between the player's new salary and the minimum salary for a one-year veteran (if the player is a rookie, then the rookie minimum is used instead).


For example, suppose a fifth-year player is waived during the 2005 offseason, with one guaranteed season remaining on his contract.  If this player signs a $1 million contract with another NBA team for the 2005-06 season, his original team gets to set off $1 million minus $641,748 (the minimum for a one-year veteran in 2005-06), divided by two, or $179,126.  If this player had a $5 million salary with his prior team, then his prior team would be responsible for the remaining $4,820,874.  Note that between his prior team and new team the player will earn a combined $5,820,874, which was more than he made prior to being waived.


There was some controversy about what happens to player options if the player is released before the option can be exercised.  See question number 50 for details.

[pick_and_pop]

Any word on Mickael Pietrus?  I haven't seen much of Golden State but from reading about him he is a good defender, athletic, and can shoot the 3. 
 

[Fred Roberts]

I like Harrison. He's young and a true 7 footer with a bit of game. Miles is intriguing if he can play.

Both very interesting for the min type contracts that danny used on pollard and eddie last year.Maggette would be a stud, but I don't see him coming ...

[johnnyrondo]

Posey's a little like our Johnny Damon. Maybe if we signed Damon to that contract (the Yankees gave him), we're happy during year one. During year 2, we're starting to regret it and eventually it's a weight. Magette is the much smarter long term option. If people had the option of either of those two last Summer, most would have chosen Magette. But fans (celticsbloggers especially) get very attached and are all about what they've seen lately. Two Summers ago, many celticsbloggers were higher on Gerald Green coming off his rookie year, then Big Al believe it or not. A yr later Al is the man and people are bashing Green still to this day. When we made the Telfair trade I put up a poll and about 75% of celticsbloggers preferred Telfair over Rondo. Then all of a sudden Rondo is the man this year. then he struggles in LA and everyone wants him on the bench. After game 6 everyone is back in love with him. I wonder if he struggled during game 6 if people would be calling to trade him.

Rich Gedman once called Boston fans "fickle."  Never a good idea to be an athlete and complain about your fans, but he was basically right. Yes posey was great for us in 2007/2008, but we're signing a guy for years down the road too. Blount btw had a great season during his contract year and people were all set to bash the C's for letting him go, but then they surprisingly signed him and fans were happy. Count me in the minority that would prefer Maggette.

[Brickowski]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

=/ What do those commenters mean on the Blazers blog?

Miles' was owed about 9-10M for the next few years from Portland, but doctors concluded he had an injury bad enough to be labeled as "career ending" so they were able to void his contract, I believe... However, if someone signs Miles' and he plays ten games Portland is then obligated to pay the rest of his salary from his last contract.

No, they didn't void his contract. It is being paid out via an insurance company.  Miles still gets the money. But if his injury is not, in fact, "career ending" the insurance company no logner has to pay, but the Blazers do.  Hence he goes back on their cap.

If Miles is able to perform, my guess is that the insurance company will allege fraud and try to recoup whatever it has paid out on the policy.  I suppose the Blazers could try to find another doctor also willing to say that the injury is "career ending," but that's tough to do if he's out there running and jumping.

[johnnyrondo]

http://www.blazersedge.com/2008/7/4/564922/darius-works-out-for-the-c

=/ What do those commenters mean on the Blazers blog?

Miles' was owed about 9-10M for the next few years from Portland, but doctors concluded he had an injury bad enough to be labeled as "career ending" so they were able to void his contract, I believe... However, if someone signs Miles' and he plays ten games Portland is then obligated to pay the rest of his salary from his last contract.

No, they didn't void his contract. It is being paid out via an insurance company.  Miles still gets the money. But if his injury is not, in fact, "career ending" the insurance company no logner has to pay, but the Blazers do.  Hence he goes back on their cap.

If Miles is able to perform, my guess is that the insurance company will allege fraud and try to recoup whatever it has paid out on the policy.  I suppose the Blazers could try to find another doctor also willing to say that the injury is "career ending," but that's tough to do if he's out there running and jumping.

"Portland, take Scalabrine off our books or we're signing Miles."