Just Re-Sign Posey

[cordobes]

You are talking about a total life difference of $4.16MM dollar difference.  Does Posey not think he can get that in years 4 or 5? 

I don't know. He'll be 35 years old and he knows that. A Posey without lateral quickness won't have much value. Injuries happen, declines happen.

If I were a betting man, I believe his agent is target a 4 year deal.   

Agree.

[Casperian]

As I said before, if Posey wants the full MLE at 4 or more years, Danny will NOT sign him. It's ridiculous to pay a declining 6th man that much, especially after the contracts of the Big 3 are up. Maggette and Pietrus actually deserve that type of contract.

Just because the contracts of the Big 3 will be up, doesn't mean they will no longer be Celtics.  Not sure about Ray, but I'm certain Pierce will still be here and possibly Garnett.

Sign Posey, NOW!

But the Celtics will need the flexibility at that point.

Why do you think do we need flexibility then?
And why should we worry more about our cap situation in 4 years than about #18?

The contracts of Ray, Pierce and KG expire until then, plenty enough options to re-build our cap structure.

This combination of players we could allegedly get for the MLE that could contribute more than Posey (plus another player already on the team, since the second guy would need PT to contribute) doesn´t exist. And if it does, it´s not a given that these players accept their roles as bench players.

We don´t need flexibility in 4 years.

Either

a) KG and Pirce can still contribute then, although to a lesser extent, and would have smaller contracts. Maybe Rondo develops the way we all hope he will. That´s a good situation to bring in another star who wants to make a Championship run.

b) Everything goes wrong, Pierce and KG are only shadows of their former self. This means the Celtics would suck. So, cap flexibility would be a good thing...except for the fact that we would have 4 big expiring contracts in 4 years(big three + Posey), which is as good as cash in this league.

In fact, expiring contracts have more value for a team that sucks. Cap flexibility alone doesn´t net you a superstar. Just look what the Bobcats got for their precious cap space. On the other hand, look what we got for Ratliff´s expiring contract + filler, what the Lakers got for Kwame Brown, or the rumours in Cleveland surrounding Wally´s contract. The Heat got Marion for an over-the-hill Shaq for crying out loud. That´s how the NBA works today. Do you think the Celtics could have signed KG on the free agent market?

I think many fans still think in 24-win categories. It is smart to weigh every cent if you´re in rebuilding mode, but if you´re in a situation like the Celtics, you have to make sure that you can field the best team possible, and trade your burdens later. Let´s worry about rebuilding when it´s time.

[Fan from VT]

I think it is important to be able to distance yourself in free agency. You have to look past emotion and think in hypotheticals.

Why didn't we offer Posey 5.5 mil a year for several years LAST offseason, after averaging 7.7 pts, 5.0 rbs, 1.3 asts, 1 stl, .3 blks, .375 3pt%, .431 fg%?
 
Is he suddenly worth about a 3 mil a year raise, guaranteed for 4-5 years after averaging 7.4 pts, 4.3 rbs, 1.5 asts, 1 stl, .3 blks, .380 3pt%, .418 fg%?

What if he had put up the exact same numbers last season in Minnesota. Would we throw our whole MLE at him then?

I think he was fairly paid this year. if he needs a lot more than 3-3.5 mil a year, it might be time to look elsewhere.

[wahz]

James made 6.3 mill two years ago.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poseyja01.html

Its just ludicrous if DA think he is going to take 4-5 now for 4 years. A fair offer truly would have been 5.8 for 3. And if I am Posey I am thinking a 4th year is really more like it.

Who thinks we would have won the title this past year with Corey instead of James? I don't. Corey seems to play around 65 games a year too. Injuries, lack of heart? I dunno. Why has his 3 point % been all over the map? Is Corey gonna be able to play d on a pf like James played on Dirk in the finals? Miami doesn't win that title without James locking down and intimidating Dirk.

Even I think that if we lose James, but add Andesrson, and Corey we have a shot at improving, assuming we keep Tom T to run the d. But its not a risk Id like to take, because we should get Pos back and add anderson and work at developing the kids and  thats all Id too. I am not too happy we seem to be ignoring House either. We are acting like we are ok with blowing two of our best chemistry and character guys, and swapping them to make room to add some scoring, and get minutes to young vets and rookies. Mind you PJ will be gone too and we may well have lost to  Cle without him.

I like the draft picks. The Turkish kid looks about 8 feet tall in the pictures. If we just develop the kids, let Perk, and Baby and Powe and Rajon develop more, sign Annderson and keep Pose and House, I think we will have done enough.

[cordobes]

I think it is important to be able to distance yourself in free agency. You have to look past emotion and think in hypotheticals.

Why didn't we offer Posey 5.5 mil a year for several years LAST offseason, after averaging 7.7 pts, 5.0 rbs, 1.3 asts, 1 stl, .3 blks, .375 3pt%, .431 fg%?
 
Is he suddenly worth about a 3 mil a year raise, guaranteed for 4-5 years after averaging 7.4 pts, 4.3 rbs, 1.5 asts, 1 stl, .3 blks, .380 3pt%, .418 fg%?

What if he had put up the exact same numbers last season in Minnesota. Would we throw our whole MLE at him then?

I think he was fairly paid this year. if he needs a lot more than 3-3.5 mil a year, it might be time to look elsewhere.

Posey was incredibly underpaid last season. We lucked into him (thanks Pat). He was an above-MLE salary player. That's why he only signed for 1 year. Everybody knew that Posey would be looking for more money this offseason, even if the C's had underachieved.

[cordobes]

Who thinks we would have won the title this past year with Corey instead of James? I don't. Corey seems to play around 65 games a year too. Injuries, lack of heart? I dunno. Why has his 3 point % been all over the map? Is Corey gonna be able to play d on a pf like James played on Dirk in the finals? Miami doesn't win that title without James locking down and intimidating Dirk.

You are right. But for most fans ppg+dunks>Everything else.

[JHTruth]

"Incredibly Underpaid"? I'm not sure about that. The guy's EFF score during the season and playoffs was basically the same as Vladimir Radmanovic. Posey has gleamed a stellar rep based upon the "little things" he does to help win games apparently and I do appreciate his contributions to the team. But his rep has outstripped his actual production by quite a bit..

[timepiece33]

"Incredibly Underpaid"? I'm not sure about that. The guy's EFF score during the season and playoffs was basically the same as Vladimir Radmanovic. Posey has gleamed a stellar rep based upon the "little things" he does to help win games apparently and I do appreciate his contributions to the team. But his rep has outstripped his actual production by quite a bit..

If Vlad played defense like Posey, he'd be worth the MLE.

I understand wanting cap flexibility in the future, but the MLE is not going to ruin that at all.   

[Casperian]

"Incredibly Underpaid"? I'm not sure about that. The guy's EFF score during the season and playoffs was basically the same as Vladimir Radmanovic. Posey has gleamed a stellar rep based upon the "little things" he does to help win games apparently and I do appreciate his contributions to the team. But his rep has outstripped his actual production by quite a bit..

You mean he sucks at some random statistics? Who would´ve thought...

Impact is not measurable in stats.

[indeedproceed]

"Incredibly Underpaid"? I'm not sure about that. The guy's EFF score during the season and playoffs was basically the same as Vladimir Radmanovic. Posey has gleamed a stellar rep based upon the "little things" he does to help win games apparently and I do appreciate his contributions to the team. But his rep has outstripped his actual production by quite a bit..

If Vlad played defense like Posey, he'd be worth the MLE.

I understand wanting cap flexibility in the future, but the MLE is not going to ruin that at all.   

Not if he only signs for 2, maybe 3 years..but for 5? I mean thats al albatross contract, cut and dry.

Try to find a non-starting player that signed a full MLE contract for 4 years that was 31 or older at the time of signing that has worked out. Its pretty tough. Take into account that a lot of Posey's defensive and "little things" are due to his still freakish athleticism, and I don't like the extra years at all.

[JHTruth]

LOL. Yeah, some random stats. No meaning whatsoever. That's probably why the Celtics employ several full-time statistics and analytics experts to assist them make player decisions. Because they mean nothing. Just eyeball it and pay a guy the full MLE for 5 years based on some observation. That's sound management..

[Casperian]

LOL. Yeah, some random stats. No meaning whatsoever. That's probably why the Celtics employ several full-time statistics and analytics experts to assist them make player decisions. Because they mean nothing. Just eyeball it and pay a guy the full MLE for 5 years based on some observation. That's sound management..

See, that´s the problem.

Several stats make a picture. One stat alone, even (or especially) a generalizing one, says nothing about a player.

[timepiece33]

Not if he only signs for 2, maybe 3 years..but for 5? I mean thats al albatross contract, cut and dry.

Try to find a non-starting player that signed a full MLE contract for 4 years that was 31 or older at the time of signing that has worked out. Its pretty tough. Take into account that a lot of Posey's defensive and "little things" are due to his still freakish athleticism, and I don't like the extra years at all.

You could make the argument that Kevin Garnett's contract is a cap killer using your philosophy. 

I was simply saying that when comparing him to Radmanovic, if Rad played defense ... he'd easily be worth the MLE. 

I'm not sure I'd offer 5.  I've said that on numerous occasions, but a 4 year deal corresponds with Garnett's contract which is kind of a limiting factor in free agency.   

The real question to me is whether ownership is going to be willing to use Allen's contract to get us another star after next year. 

[indeedproceed]

Not if he only signs for 2, maybe 3 years..but for 5? I mean thats al albatross contract, cut and dry.

Try to find a non-starting player that signed a full MLE contract for 4 years that was 31 or older at the time of signing that has worked out. Its pretty tough. Take into account that a lot of Posey's defensive and "little things" are due to his still freakish athleticism, and I don't like the extra years at all.

You could make the argument that Kevin Garnett's contract is a cap killer using your philosophy. 

I was simply saying that when comparing him to Radmanovic, if Rad played defense ... he'd easily be worth the MLE. 

I'm not sure I'd offer 5.  I've said that on numerous occasions, but a 4 year deal corresponds with Garnett's contract which is kind of a limiting factor in free agency.   

The real question to me is whether ownership is going to be willing to use Allen's contract to get us another star after next year. 

I wasn't targeting your radmon point exclusively. I actually think there is a good chance that Garnett's contract will be a cap killer in its final year. But I think its a different situation with him, he's a superstar, a franchise piece. If it took that many years to ease his mind with coming here, no question its not money wasted.

Now if Posey was not on the team this past season would we have still have won? Who knows? I would tend to agree with someone if they said 'no'. I do think, however, that offering a 5 year contract to posey would be a big mistake. Your point about 4 years coinciding with Garnett's contract expiring though is a good one, because as long as Pierce and him are on the books, we're pretty much guaranteed over he cap regardless. And I really doubt we're not going to let pierce go anywhere in 3 years.

[cordobes]

Not if he only signs for 2, maybe 3 years..but for 5? I mean thats al albatross contract, cut and dry.

Try to find a non-starting player that signed a full MLE contract for 4 years that was 31 or older at the time of signing that has worked out. Its pretty tough. Take into account that a lot of Posey's defensive and "little things" are due to his still freakish athleticism, and I don't like the extra years at all.

You could make the argument that Kevin Garnett's contract is a cap killer using your philosophy. 

I was simply saying that when comparing him to Radmanovic, if Rad played defense ... he'd easily be worth the MLE. 

I'm not sure I'd offer 5.  I've said that on numerous occasions, but a 4 year deal corresponds with Garnett's contract which is kind of a limiting factor in free agency.   

The real question to me is whether ownership is going to be willing to use Allen's contract to get us another star after next year. 

I wasn't targeting your radmon point exclusively. I actually think there is a good chance that Garnett's contract will be a cap killer in its final year. But I think its a different situation with him, he's a superstar, a franchise piece. If it took that many years to ease his mind with coming here, no question its not money wasted.

Now if Posey was not on the team this past season would we have still have won? Who knows? I would tend to agree with someone if they said 'no'. I do think, however, that offering a 5 year contract to posey would be a big mistake. Your point about 4 years coinciding with Garnett's contract expiring though is a good one, because as long as Pierce and him are on the books, we're pretty much guaranteed over he cap regardless. And I really doubt we're not going to let pierce go anywhere in 3 years.

The full-MLE for five years would be a mistake, I agree. But if we're talking about a 5 years non-Bird contract it's a different story. We would be underpaying him for 3 years and we'd have a nice expiring in the final year - and we'll be rebuilding by then.