Just Re-Sign Posey

[Bankshot]

As I said before, if Posey wants the full MLE at 4 or more years, Danny will NOT sign him. It's ridiculous to pay a declining 6th man that much, especially after the contracts of the Big 3 are up. Maggette and Pietrus actually deserve that type of contract.

Just because the contracts of the Big 3 will be up, doesn't mean they will no longer be Celtics.  Not sure about Ray, but I'm certain Pierce will still be here and possibly Garnett.

Sign Posey, NOW!

[wdleehi]

As I said before, if Posey wants the full MLE at 4 or more years, Danny will NOT sign him. It's ridiculous to pay a declining 6th man that much, especially after the contracts of the Big 3 are up. Maggette and Pietrus actually deserve that type of contract.

Just because the contracts of the Big 3 will be up, doesn't mean they will no longer be Celtics.  Not sure about Ray, but I'm certain Pierce will still be here and possibly Garnett.

Sign Posey, NOW!

But the Celtics will need the flexibility at that point.

[timepiece33]

It isn't about 1 player that's better than Posey. It's a combination of players that could be acquired. I'm not against giving Posey the full MLE, but I'm against blindly handing it to him without exploring other options that would make our team better even with Posey in there.

What that combination could be? Who knows, as long as Danny is doing his homework, it's good by me.

Maybe it is that I view Maggette as an absolute pipedream considering that Golden State and Philadelphia have cap space AND San Antonio offers all the similarities as Boston with a better tax situation/playing time situation.

I'd like for anyone to suggest a two person combination (not including Maggette) that we could get that is better than Posey.  You can say "a combination" that is better, but does it exist?   

I'd easily offer 3 years at the MLE.  If they offered a 3 year, non birds rights deal ... Ainge is simply posturing for the 3 year MLE offer.   Ultimately, I might go to 4 years; but that is ultimately the question.  It isn't going to be a non birds right deal to get this done. 

[samjones]

I greatly appreciate what James Posey brought to the team this year, but it is hard to evaluate Danny Ainge's strategy since we are missing at least one critical piece of information -- what is his budget ceiling. Ainge has to bring in an experienced wingman, an experienced point guard (2nd or 3rd string), and 1 or 2 big men. We saw what happened in game 5 against the Lakers without Perkins; the Lakers controlled the lane and won that game. And with Perkins persistent shoulder problems, 2 big men would be a safer approach. When you think about how critical those experienced guys were off the bench, and how certain key games swung our way due to those experienced guys, Ainge has a tall order to address the spots filled by PJ, House, and Posey this year. Even with his ups and downs, Cassell contributed significantly to a couple of wins in the playoffs.  

[Fan from VT]

Before I post I need to clarify. I like Posey. I appreciate his contribution to the team. But I don't what that to color his potential re-signing with the C's. Many others have rightly pointed out that letting Damon, Pedro, and Lowe walk was hard to swallow, but doing so directly led to a second title just three seasons later.

I just want to point out that Posey has been the exact same player for the past 3 seasons. He looked "great" on Miami when they won the title in '05-'06. However, he could not cash in on the hype because he was under contract for one more season. in '06-'07, Miami completely imploded, and Posey, though he posted the exact same numbers as the year before, looked much worse. As such, a one-year deal for 3.2 million from boston was his best option. Let's not pretend that Posey was some desirable asset that really wanted to play for boston. he was a less-than desirable free agent that wanted to play for a good team for one season to inflate his salary options; this is why he had a player option in his contract and not simply a multi-year 3.2 per year contract.

And it worked, because even though he was the exact same player contributing the exact same things as he did on a terrible miami team, he suddenly was doing those things on a champtionship team, and has successfully inflated his stock to be in line for a multi year deal at 5.8 per. Posey is a player who depends on having good teammates around him to make him look more valuable. Otherwise, where were the offers LAST offseason, after a nearly identicle season to this one in every respect but team success.

Yes, Posey does the little things, but i think you can find a lot of players who can do the little things and look good on a team like boston had last year. And i think we can find multiple pieces for better prices with more flexible/optimistic futures.

[P2]

Maggette had some kind words regarding the Celtics, wheras the San Antonio paper is just suspecting that they're the front-runners. In the end, I think Maggette will be a Celtic. It's just too tempting not to accept.

[timepiece33]

Before I post I need to clarify. I like Posey. I appreciate his contribution to the team. But I don't what that to color his potential re-signing with the C's. Many others have rightly pointed out that letting Damon, Pedro, and Lowe walk was hard to swallow, but doing so directly led to a second title just three seasons later.

Can't compare baseball to basketball.  The rules of free agency after you are over the cap are polar opposites.   

In baseball, you can sign players to max deals if you are over the cap.  You can trade for players without having to match salaries.  You can't do that in basketball thus it changes the player acquisition methods you can use.   

Baseball and Basketball are simply not comparable.

If Posey wants 5 years, I believe you talk to other players.  If he is willing to sign a 3 year MLE deal, you jump at it though I think the first part is actually offering it now.   If he wants 4 years, then it is an organizational discussion.

[EJPLAYA]

Before I post I need to clarify. I like Posey. I appreciate his contribution to the team. But I don't what that to color his potential re-signing with the C's. Many others have rightly pointed out that letting Damon, Pedro, and Lowe walk was hard to swallow, but doing so directly led to a second title just three seasons later.

I just want to point out that Posey has been the exact same player for the past 3 seasons. He looked "great" on Miami when they won the title in '05-'06. However, he could not cash in on the hype because he was under contract for one more season. in '06-'07, Miami completely imploded, and Posey, though he posted the exact same numbers as the year before, looked much worse. As such, a one-year deal for 3.2 million from boston was his best option. Let's not pretend that Posey was some desirable asset that really wanted to play for boston. he was a less-than desirable free agent that wanted to play for a good team for one season to inflate his salary options; this is why he had a player option in his contract and not simply a multi-year 3.2 per year contract.

And it worked, because even though he was the exact same player contributing the exact same things as he did on a terrible miami team, he suddenly was doing those things on a champtionship team, and has successfully inflated his stock to be in line for a multi year deal at 5.8 per. Posey is a player who depends on having good teammates around him to make him look more valuable. Otherwise, where were the offers LAST offseason, after a nearly identicle season to this one in every respect but team success.

Yes, Posey does the little things, but i think you can find a lot of players who can do the little things and look good on a team like boston had last year. And i think we can find multiple pieces for better prices with more flexible/optimistic futures.

Can you name me "a lot of players" specifically who bring Posey's skillset that we can bring in here please so Danny can go and sign one of them and we won't have to pay this kind of money to a role player?! I doubt you can. There are a handful only spread out across the league and most under contract.

As attractive as Maggette is I don't think he does these little things. He is an all-star type player who brings value like a PP (not quite to that level obviously) does. He doesn't want to be the fourth option on this team. If he was content with that fine, but that makes no sense for him to do it, and if he does I think we are going to have another Sam Cassell situation. A guy who says the right things about fitting in, but when he starts getting those small minutes it will start to rub on him. Especially when the guy in front of him is struggling a bit. We risk too much in the way of chemistry to bring in a Maggette. Sign Posey for the 4 years at full and be done with it.

[cordobes]

As I said before, if Posey wants the full MLE at 4 or more years, Danny will NOT sign him. It's ridiculous to pay a declining 6th man that much, especially after the contracts of the Big 3 are up. Maggette and Pietrus actually deserve that type of contract.

I agree with you on Posey and Maggette in abstract (though Posey fills a need more than Maggette). But Pietrus? There's a reason why GSW didn't even offer him an extension or a new contract, although they have his rights, plenty of cap space and NellieBall is the best system for him (because even a 6 years old can understand it). The same reason why Parker said that the French NT only has a good player besides himself: Diaw.

[Fan from VT]

It isn't about 1 player that's better than Posey. It's a combination of players that could be acquired. I'm not against giving Posey the full MLE, but I'm against blindly handing it to him without exploring other options that would make our team better even with Posey in there.

What that combination could be? Who knows, as long as Danny is doing his homework, it's good by me.

Maybe it is that I view Maggette as an absolute pipedream considering that Golden State and Philadelphia have cap space AND San Antonio offers all the similarities as Boston with a better tax situation/playing time situation.

I'd like for anyone to suggest a two person combination (not including Maggette) that we could get that is better than Posey.  You can say "a combination" that is better, but does it exist?   

I'd easily offer 3 years at the MLE.  If they offered a 3 year, non birds rights deal ... Ainge is simply posturing for the 3 year MLE offer.   Ultimately, I might go to 4 years; but that is ultimately the question.  It isn't going to be a non birds right deal to get this done. 

A combination could be hard to find, and posey may end up being the best option. but i'm leary of a full mle deal for him, especially 5 years. those deals almost always look terrible down the road. especially, as i noted above, so much of his "value" is based on the success of the team he was on. if he did exactly what he did this year on miami again, he would not be sniffing close to 5.8 for 5 years (30 million total or so).

So what if you could use the MLE to get Duhon, Andersen, and pietrus? Or Dooling, Snyder, and Kwame*? That fills a bunch of wholes, and i think it's  amazing how many players would look like great "intangibles" guys alongside Ray, PP, and KG.

So if you told me posey wouldn't sign for less than the full MLE for 4 years, or i could use the full MLE and sign Dooling, Pietrus, and Kwame/anderses for 2-3 seasons each, I'd take the package deal and forego paying Posey around 8 mil when he's 35.


*And yes, i know people hate kwame, but i think the hatred would be less if you looked at him as a 1 mil a year free agent backup you picked up rather than: A. the number one pick overall, or B. The guy you traded Caron Butler for to start with Odom and Kobe. If you just look at him as a chump 7 footer you picked up to be a backup, suddenly his 7 and 6 with above average defense looks much better

[Fan from VT]

Before I post I need to clarify. I like Posey. I appreciate his contribution to the team. But I don't what that to color his potential re-signing with the C's. Many others have rightly pointed out that letting Damon, Pedro, and Lowe walk was hard to swallow, but doing so directly led to a second title just three seasons later.

Can't compare baseball to basketball.  The rules of free agency after you are over the cap are polar opposites.   

In baseball, you can sign players to max deals if you are over the cap.  You can trade for players without having to match salaries.  You can't do that in basketball thus it changes the player acquisition methods you can use.   

Baseball and Basketball are simply not comparable.

If Posey wants 5 years, I believe you talk to other players.  If he is willing to sign a 3 year MLE deal, you jump at it though I think the first part is actually offering it now.   If he wants 4 years, then it is an organizational discussion.

I agree, the rules are different. In fact, overpaying for sentimental reasons hurts you MORE in the NBA because of the cap.

I'm trying to say that we, the fans, love posey and the fact he was important to a championship run. But he doesn't love boston. He's the type of player who needs stars around him to look good. He was exactly the same for 3 seasons that went Championship, terrible team, championship. Unfortunately for him, but good for us, his free agency period came after that terrible team, so no one was willing to pay big bucks for an exposed role player. so he came to boston for the exress purpose of inflating his earning potential above market value, and succeeded. Good for him, great for us last year, not so good for us now. we still have a bunch of wholes, and we can't count on Brown and Cassell types becoming available.

[cordobes]

If they offered a 3 year, non birds rights deal ... Ainge is simply posturing for the 3 year MLE offer.   Ultimately, I might go to 4 years; but that is ultimately the question.  It isn't going to be a non birds right deal to get this done. 

Why are you so sure that Posey prefers a 3year/MLE to a 5year/NBE deal? Players tend to like security and more guaranteed money, especially when they're 31.

[JHTruth]

Posey could be one of those guys who cons some team into giving him a 4-5 year MLE deal due to a solid Finals performance. The full MLE signings league-wide have been for the most part unmitigated disasters. And I think Posey is bluffing about the interest around the league. If he was really that hot of a commodity and getting 4-5 year full MLE offers, he would be gone by now. He knows Boston is his best shot and getting the best deal so he's holding out.

Anyway, from the C's perspective, they aim to improve, not just maintain the status quo. Why not use our status as champions to recruit the best FA's we can? If you just want to bring the exact same team back, then you're not taking full advantage of your status as champs. Hold on, and see what shakes out..

[chrismcc13]

Look, Posey KNOWS the game of basketball inside and out.  While Maggette is an offensive force, he DOES NOT know the game like Posey.  While I was excited as anyone when we got Garnett to round out the Pierce/Allen combo, I knew we needed another force to do everything else.  When we signed big game James, I knew we would win it.  You can look at numbers all you want, but you have to understand the game to realize James Posey is a much more desirable free agent than Maggette.  Defense wins championships.  Posey is everything we need.  Sign him up now!!!

[timepiece33]

Why are you so sure that Posey prefers a 3year/MLE to a 5year/NBE deal? Players tend to like security and more guaranteed money, especially when they're 31.

Just pulling data from the great thread earlier on the subject.  I could have swore the MLE started at a higher number, which makes the difference actually smaller between a 3 year MLE contract and a 5 year contract.  However, I believe these are atleast ballpark figures.

3 year MLE deal (Worth $18.15MM)

Year 1 - 5.60
Year 2 - 6.05
Year 3 - 6.50

5 year non Birds Right deal (Worth $22.31MM)

Year 1 - 3.85
Year 2 - 4.15
Year 3 - 4.46
Year 4 - 4.77
Year 5 - 5.08

You are talking about a total life difference of $4.16MM dollar difference.  Does Posey not think he can get that in years 4 or 5? 

If I were a betting man, I believe his agent is target a 4 year deal.   

4 year MLE deal (Worth $25.05MM)

Year 1 - 5.60
Year 2 - 6.05
Year 3 - 6.50
Year 4 - 6.90