G S retaliates with max offer to Brand

[johnnyrondo]

Well the thing is that since Brand has opted out, he has a lot of leverage in this situation.
He might want to go back to the Clippers, but he's going to listen to all the offers, then he's going to go back to LA and say, listen this is what I've been offered, can you at least match it? 
If the Clippers match, they get a very nice core of Brand + Baron DAvis. 
If they don't, Brand might be wearing a new uniform next year.

But somehow there not allowed to match. They lost their Bird Rights when they signed Baron Davis. What Brand can do is say "hey I'm willing to take less to stay here, but move a contract or two so that I can make a little more." The problem then is that if they move players they become less competitive.

That's not 100% accurate.  The Clippers haven't lost their Bird rights.

The problem is, they can't sign Davis until they clear up enough cap room to do so.  Both Corey Maggette and Elton Brand have a "cap hold" on their contracts, that is actually for a greater amount than their previous contracts.  This eats up their cap space.

There are three ways to release a cap hold:  1) if the player signs with a new team, 2) if you renounce the player, or 3) if you sign him.

The Clippers are renouncing Maggette, and are hoping to sign Brand.  When they do so, they'll sign him for a lesser salary than his cap hold.  This, in turn, will free up cap space, so they can sign Davis.

The Clippers still would have Bird rights, meaning they'd be able to sign Brand for as much as they wanted (up to the max salary).  However, if they did so, they wouldn't be able to sign Davis.

I'm working under the assumption that they have signed Davis already, which they have essentially. If Davis is to be a Clipper than they can't just match any Brand offer due to "Bird Rights." Signing Davis essentially removes their Bird Rights from Brand.

[EJPLAYA]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

[johnnyrondo]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

It's called "keeping your word." Baron doesn't sign with the Clips unless Brand made him a promise. Just like the Cavs don't make Boozer a FA, unless they have agreed to sign him to a fair deal. There are still some ethics in Sports. That's why Boozer's agent resigned. Do you agree with what Boozer did do the Cavs?

[cordobes]

Well the thing is that since Brand has opted out, he has a lot of leverage in this situation.
He might want to go back to the Clippers, but he's going to listen to all the offers, then he's going to go back to LA and say, listen this is what I've been offered, can you at least match it? 
If the Clippers match, they get a very nice core of Brand + Baron DAvis. 
If they don't, Brand might be wearing a new uniform next year.

But somehow there not allowed to match. They lost their Bird Rights when they signed Baron Davis. What Brand can do is say "hey I'm willing to take less to stay here, but move a contract or two so that I can make a little more." The problem then is that if they move players they become less competitive.

That's not 100% accurate.  The Clippers haven't lost their Bird rights.

The problem is, they can't sign Davis until they clear up enough cap room to do so.  Both Corey Maggette and Elton Brand have a "cap hold" on their contracts, that is actually for a greater amount than their previous contracts.  This eats up their cap space.

There are three ways to release a cap hold:  1) if the player signs with a new team, 2) if you renounce the player, or 3) if you sign him.

The Clippers are renouncing Maggette, and are hoping to sign Brand.  When they do so, they'll sign him for a lesser salary than his cap hold.  This, in turn, will free up cap space, so they can sign Davis.

The Clippers still would have Bird rights, meaning they'd be able to sign Brand for as much as they wanted (up to the max salary).  However, if they did so, they wouldn't be able to sign Davis.

I'm working under the assumption that they have signed Davis already, which they have essentially. If Davis is to be a Clipper than they can't just match any Brand offer due to "Bird Rights." Signing Davis essentially removes their Bird Rights from Brand.

The problem is that they haven't signed Davis already. They have to resign Brand or renounce expressly to his Bird rights in order to be able to sign Davis. If Brand accepts Warriors' offer, Clippers match it and don't sign Davis.

[EJPLAYA]

Well the thing is that since Brand has opted out, he has a lot of leverage in this situation.
He might want to go back to the Clippers, but he's going to listen to all the offers, then he's going to go back to LA and say, listen this is what I've been offered, can you at least match it? 
If the Clippers match, they get a very nice core of Brand + Baron DAvis. 
If they don't, Brand might be wearing a new uniform next year.

But somehow there not allowed to match. They lost their Bird Rights when they signed Baron Davis. What Brand can do is say "hey I'm willing to take less to stay here, but move a contract or two so that I can make a little more." The problem then is that if they move players they become less competitive.

That's not 100% accurate.  The Clippers haven't lost their Bird rights.

The problem is, they can't sign Davis until they clear up enough cap room to do so.  Both Corey Maggette and Elton Brand have a "cap hold" on their contracts, that is actually for a greater amount than their previous contracts.  This eats up their cap space.

There are three ways to release a cap hold:  1) if the player signs with a new team, 2) if you renounce the player, or 3) if you sign him.

The Clippers are renouncing Maggette, and are hoping to sign Brand.  When they do so, they'll sign him for a lesser salary than his cap hold.  This, in turn, will free up cap space, so they can sign Davis.

The Clippers still would have Bird rights, meaning they'd be able to sign Brand for as much as they wanted (up to the max salary).  However, if they did so, they wouldn't be able to sign Davis.

I'm working under the assumption that they have signed Davis already, which they have essentially. If Davis is to be a Clipper than they can't just match any Brand offer due to "Bird Rights." Signing Davis essentially removes their Bird Rights from Brand.

The problem is that they haven't signed Davis already. They have to resign Brand or renounce expressly to his Bird rights in order to be able to sign Davis. If Brand accepts Warriors' offer, Clippers match it and don't sign Davis.

So you are telling me that these sites, including ESPN which I just watched say the same thing are wrong? They are stating the max that the Clips can give him is 70 mil and the Warriors offer is 90.

As far as the Boozer situation, I don't feel sorry one bit for the Cavs. They knew that was a possibility and misjudged his loyalty to them. Boozer's career seems be getting along just fine and is in hot demand. Most importantly he added a huge chunk of change to his nest egg. Brand should do the same. There is no loyalty in 99% of the cases from the owners to the athletes, so why should we expect it in reverse. It is a business decision. All things being equal or even close to equal he should stay. If not, then he should make the smart business decision and sign the contract. Loyalty only applies to fans. Even we aren't that loyal either usually, so I wouldn't expect any more out of them.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Well the thing is that since Brand has opted out, he has a lot of leverage in this situation.
He might want to go back to the Clippers, but he's going to listen to all the offers, then he's going to go back to LA and say, listen this is what I've been offered, can you at least match it? 
If the Clippers match, they get a very nice core of Brand + Baron DAvis. 
If they don't, Brand might be wearing a new uniform next year.

But somehow there not allowed to match. They lost their Bird Rights when they signed Baron Davis. What Brand can do is say "hey I'm willing to take less to stay here, but move a contract or two so that I can make a little more." The problem then is that if they move players they become less competitive.

That's not 100% accurate.  The Clippers haven't lost their Bird rights.

The problem is, they can't sign Davis until they clear up enough cap room to do so.  Both Corey Maggette and Elton Brand have a "cap hold" on their contracts, that is actually for a greater amount than their previous contracts.  This eats up their cap space.

There are three ways to release a cap hold:  1) if the player signs with a new team, 2) if you renounce the player, or 3) if you sign him.

The Clippers are renouncing Maggette, and are hoping to sign Brand.  When they do so, they'll sign him for a lesser salary than his cap hold.  This, in turn, will free up cap space, so they can sign Davis.

The Clippers still would have Bird rights, meaning they'd be able to sign Brand for as much as they wanted (up to the max salary).  However, if they did so, they wouldn't be able to sign Davis.

I'm working under the assumption that they have signed Davis already, which they have essentially. If Davis is to be a Clipper than they can't just match any Brand offer due to "Bird Rights." Signing Davis essentially removes their Bird Rights from Brand.

The problem is that they haven't signed Davis already. They have to resign Brand or renounce expressly to his Bird rights in order to be able to sign Davis. If Brand accepts Warriors' offer, Clippers match it and don't sign Davis.

Well, they can't actually match. It'd be interesting to see how this all affects Maggette because they can potentially gain his rights back if they can't get the free-agent they wanted (for the one that they renounce his rights for).

But if Brand accepts their deal, he becomes a Warrior.... but to be able to do so, they would have to either sign Davis for cheap (I really don't know how cheap they'd need to go in order to fit in Brand) and/or renounce their rights to Monta Ellis.

So what does this means for the Clippers? That if Brand accepts, I think they can go back to acquire Maggette with a decent offer and even go after Monta Ellis.

Hard to tell without having the real numbers at hand you know.

[cordobes]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

I don't think that article is accurate at all. ESPN guys have no clue about they have been writing on this issue.

Here's what GSW is offering Brand:
$16,111,200 - starting salary (105% of his previous salary)
8% annual raises for 5 years
Total: $93,444,960

Here's what LAC can offer while still retaining room to sign Davis (aprox. values, don't know exactly their cap holds nor Davis 1st year salary; conservative estimative):
$13,500,000 - starting salary
10,5% annual raises for 6 years
Total:$105,483,687

or

10,5% annual raises for 5 years (to have both contracts - Davis and Brand - expiring in the same year):
Total: $83,243,156

I've not mentioned Brand's intelligence at all, so I have no idea why you brought up that issue... crossed threads, maybe?

[cordobes]

So you are telling me that these sites, including ESPN which I just watched say the same thing are wrong? They are stating the max that the Clips can give him is 70 mil and the Warriors offer is 90. 

Yes, I'm saying they are wrong. The max the Clips can give Brand is a max contract for 6 years with 10,5% raises. The max the Warriors can give Brand is max contract for 5 years with 8% raises. Presenting definitive values is a little risky, but the Clippers can not only match but give Brand the better offer. One problem for them: by doing that, they won't have enough cap space to sign Davis.

[BudweiserCeltic]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

I don't think that article is accurate at all. ESPN guys have no clue about they have been writing on this issue.

Here's what GSW is offering Brand:
$16,111,200 - starting salary (105% of his previous salary)
8% annual raises for 5 years
Total: $93,444,960

Here's what LAC can offer while still retaining room to sign Davis (aprox. values, don't know exactly their cap holds nor Davis 1st year salary; conservative estimative):
$12,500,000
10,5% annual raises for 6 years
Total:$105,483,687

or

10,5% annual raises for 5 years (to have both contracts - Davis and Brand - expiring in the same year):
Total: $83,243,156

I've not mentioned Brand's intelligence at all, so I have no idea why you brought up that issue... crossed threads, maybe?

[dang], now I have to redo it.

Based on $13,500,000 starting salary. If it's a contract extension, in 6 years he could make $105m... if it's a new contract $102m.

So, is this considered a contract extension or a new contract from the Clippers.

[cordobes]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

I don't think that article is accurate at all. ESPN guys have no clue about they have been writing on this issue.

Here's what GSW is offering Brand:
$16,111,200 - starting salary (105% of his previous salary)
8% annual raises for 5 years
Total: $93,444,960

Here's what LAC can offer while still retaining room to sign Davis (aprox. values, don't know exactly their cap holds nor Davis 1st year salary; conservative estimative):
$12,500,000
10,5% annual raises for 6 years
Total:$105,483,687

or

10,5% annual raises for 5 years (to have both contracts - Davis and Brand - expiring in the same year):
Total: $83,243,156

I've not mentioned Brand's intelligence at all, so I have no idea why you brought up that issue... crossed threads, maybe?

I used the wrong numbers that why my numbers and yours varied... I was using 12,500,000 as starting salary.

Still the question still applies, is this considered a contract extension or a new contract for the Clippers?

Using $12,5M as the starting salary, the total values equate $98M and $78M respectively, right? Still, the 6 years contract is more than what the Warriors can offer.

I think it's a new contract, using the Larry Bird exception.

[BudweiserCeltic]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

I don't think that article is accurate at all. ESPN guys have no clue about they have been writing on this issue.

Here's what GSW is offering Brand:
$16,111,200 - starting salary (105% of his previous salary)
8% annual raises for 5 years
Total: $93,444,960

Here's what LAC can offer while still retaining room to sign Davis (aprox. values, don't know exactly their cap holds nor Davis 1st year salary; conservative estimative):
$12,500,000
10,5% annual raises for 6 years
Total:$105,483,687

or

10,5% annual raises for 5 years (to have both contracts - Davis and Brand - expiring in the same year):
Total: $83,243,156

I've not mentioned Brand's intelligence at all, so I have no idea why you brought up that issue... crossed threads, maybe?

I used the wrong numbers that why my numbers and yours varied... I was using 12,500,000 as starting salary.

Still the question still applies, is this considered a contract extension or a new contract for the Clippers?

Using $12,5M as the starting salary, the total values equate $98M and $78M respectively, right? Still, the 6 years contract is more than what the Warriors can offer.

I think it's a new contract, using the Larry Bird exception.

I'll just throw my own calculations because you re-editing your post while I made mine messed up my response.

Here's the deal, with a starting salary of $12,500,000 (being conservative as you put it) depending on what type of contract it is (larry bird or extension) this is what he could make in 6 years:

99.17 million for extension or 94.69 million for a new larry bird contract.

For 5 years it's 78.6 or 75.6 million respectively.


Using the figures of $13,500,000, these would be the results.

For 6 years: 105m or 102m

For 5 years: 83.6m or 81.6m

I just don't know what type of contract for the Clippers this is considered, so I put both scenarios.

Raises are not compounded, they're either based of on the last year of the current contract (before extension) for a contract extension or on the first year of the new contract for the other type.

So, in the 12.5m scenario you can only make a raise of 1.6 million each year for an extension or 1.3 million if it's a new contract.

[winsomme]

posted this in the other thread but this thread is more fitting...

If Elton Brand does not take this contract with the Warriors he is an absolute fool! Forget his "friendship" with Baron Davis, forget the fact that the Warriors don't have a PG and he would be in a little better talent situation with the Clippers. He is never going to win a championship with either one of those pathetic teams. Leaving 20 million on the table by re-signing with the Clips would be one of the all-time dumbest moves ever. In about 15 years when he has completely burned through this lower contracts money, like most athletes do, he will sure be wishing for that extra 20 million he should have had. You are crazy if you don't take this deal Elton!!!!!

Little better talent situation? Clippers are not crap anymore. They won't be contending for more than a playoff spot next year, but if Gordon pans out, Thornton continues to develop and if they spend their exceptions wisely next season and use their expirings to get some more help, they are definitely contenders as long as their core is healthy.

And Brand isn't signing a low contract with the Clippers and not turning down $20M. The max the Warriors can offer him is $90M/5years. Clippers will probably sign for $90M/6years. It's not really a $20M difference, it's a "how much money will Brand make in his 1st year after he's 34 years old?" difference. Adjusting to inflation, we may very well be talking about the MLE here. Or the LLE. Would you leave LA, your home, your movie businesses and a more talented team to end your career with $178M instead of $175m?

Anyway, it's not Brand's decision. Warriors can only sign him if the Clippers renounce to his Bird rights and they're not going to do that. And I don't think Mullin is very serious about this. If Brand signs for them, that would jeopardize his ability to retain Biedrins and Ellis. What do you think it's more important? He doesn't really trying to sign Brand, just getting a S&T for Davis. But it's improbable. This offer is more about epater le bourgeouis than anything else.

You're wrong Cordobes. They can't offer the same amount that the Warriors can. Read this:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53371/20080703/clippers_nervous_about_brand/

If the money is the same then it's a no-brainer to stay where you are. The Clips are a better team if he signs and with Baron. They are however still the Paper Clips and will not now, nor ever, win a championship with the clowns that run that organization. Especially in the West.

As far as Brand's intelligence, what possibly could you be basing that on? His interviews, his drives to the basket?! We don't know this guy's intelligence level at all any more than you know what type of music he listens to, what type of women he finds attractive... Here's a nice artical from ESPN talking about this problem athletes have.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3469271

Fact is, 20 million dollars is an obscene amount of money more than the Clips are able to offer. The only way he shouldn't pull a Boozer is if he is absolutely stupid. A few years in the second round of the playoffs vs. the first round 10 years from now is not worth 20 mil.

I don't think that article is accurate at all. ESPN guys have no clue about they have been writing on this issue.

Here's what GSW is offering Brand:
$16,111,200 - starting salary (105% of his previous salary)
8% annual raises for 5 years
Total: $93,444,960

Here's what LAC can offer while still retaining room to sign Davis (aprox. values, don't know exactly their cap holds nor Davis 1st year salary; conservative estimative):
$12,500,000
10,5% annual raises for 6 years
Total:$105,483,687

or

10,5% annual raises for 5 years (to have both contracts - Davis and Brand - expiring in the same year):
Total: $83,243,156

I've not mentioned Brand's intelligence at all, so I have no idea why you brought up that issue... crossed threads, maybe?

I used the wrong numbers that why my numbers and yours varied... I was using 12,500,000 as starting salary.

Still the question still applies, is this considered a contract extension or a new contract for the Clippers?

Using $12,5M as the starting salary, the total values equate $98M and $78M respectively, right? Still, the 6 years contract is more than what the Warriors can offer.

I think it's a new contract, using the Larry Bird exception.

to be honest, i have seen this reported differently, so i don't know who has it right....

but there are three questions here.

#1 is what is the most the Clipps can offer Brand and still have enough room to sign Davis.

#2 is what will the Clipps do if the Warriors offer Brand max money....will they bail on Davis and go after Brand ahead of him? in that case Baron could end up back in GS..

#3 is if cordobes is right that the Clipps can offer $106 mil over six years and still sign Baron....do they really want to sing Brand and Davis for that much money? i thought their plan was to sign Brand for a reasonable contract and then sign Baron per an oral agreement.

[BballTim]

  The other thing to consider is that if the Clips give as much as they can to Brand and they give Davis what they agreed to they'll have their entire cap tied up in 8 players with no exceptions available, so they'll have to round out their roster with minimum contract players.

[winsomme]

  The other thing to consider is that if the Clips give as much as they can to Brand and they give Davis what they agreed to they'll have their entire cap tied up in 8 players with no exceptions available, so they'll have to round out their roster with minimum contract players.

yeah, and this  a notoriously cheap franchise.....i just don't think giving that much money to two players for so many years is what they were planning on when they hatched this plan to team up Baron and Brand.

[cordobes]

Here's the deal, with a starting salary of $12,500,000 (being conservative as you put it) depending on what type of contract it is (larry bird or extension) this is what he could make in 6 years:

99.17 million for extension or 94.69 million for a new larry bird contract.

For 5 years it's 78.6 or 75.6 million respectively.


Using the figures of $13,500,000, these would be the results.

For 6 years: 105m or 102m

For 5 years: 83.6m or 81.6m

I just don't know what type of contract for the Clippers this is considered, so I put both scenarios.

Raises are not compounded, they're either based of on the last year of the current contract (before extension) for a contract extension or on the first year of the new contract for the other type.

Ah, I was compounding the raises, stupid Excel. .

I think that it's a new contract, he's an UFA right now, so they'll have to use the Larry Bird Exception to resign him, right?

So, we have a range between $75M and $105M, depending on Davis salary and Clippers cap holds. I think they'll find a way to make the deal (especially considering that Brandon only opted out to allow them to sign Davis).