G S retaliates with max offer to Brand

[cordobes]

Brand was the architect of the Davis to Clippers deal. This is nosense.

Anyway, the Warriors can't just sign Brand. They don't have cap space to do that. They need the Clippers to sign Davis first or renounce to his Bird rights. As long as the Clippers don't renounce to Brand's Bird rights, they can match any offer.

[Roy Hobbs]

Elton Brand will turn them down. There's no way they went after Baron Davis that quickly without a commitment from Elton. He won't back out of the deal.

I agree.

Elton Brand ≠ Carlos Boozer.

[Who]

but disagree that the Warriors messed up.  The lead sports writer for the San Jose Mercury News, who I like a lot, has a strong feeling that Brand's agent choreographed the whole thing with the opt outs and Davis coming to the Clippers.  I think the Warriors might have really thought Baron might stay, and if not they had made a huge offer to Arenas.  It seems that as soon as those two options were gone, they jumped at Brand.

I like Tim Kawakami. He's good.

But the Warriors definitely did mess up. They've been setting themselves up for this type of fall for 12 long months by insulting their franchise player with bad contract offers. The only thing that stopped Baron from lashing out and demanding a trade was some sage advice from Jerry West (according to Baron).

It took them what? 32 hours? between Baron opting out before they had any reaction whatsoever. They completely misjudged the landscape and didn't make a good enough offer to hold onto him.

Then after he leaves they waste their time on something (Brand) that is never going to happen again digging their own grave deeper into the ground. They've no backup plan in place whatsoever despite starting this starting 12 months ago.

Their whole franchise collapsed in the space of 24 hours. This should never have happened. This was avoidable.

Everything that happened is the Warriors fault.

[Mr October]

Yeah, I don't know what GS is thinking. Starting with the Jason Richardson trade a year ago, a series of bad moves is just following in its wake.

I'm excited for the Clippers's potential though. 

[cordobes]

I don't know if the Warriors messed up. They never thought Davis could opt-out and leave. They missed the chance of using a trade exception. They were offering him a fair extension. I wouldn't offer Baron more than they did. If it wasn't enough, than I'd rather let him go and start a rebuilding. Offering him a max deal would be opting out of being a serious contender for the next 5 years. Anyway, it's clear that Baron never told them that he was seriously considering to leave and entertained conversations just to mislead them.

[Big Ticket]

but disagree that the Warriors messed up.  The lead sports writer for the San Jose Mercury News, who I like a lot, has a strong feeling that Brand's agent choreographed the whole thing with the opt outs and Davis coming to the Clippers.  I think the Warriors might have really thought Baron might stay, and if not they had made a huge offer to Arenas.  It seems that as soon as those two options were gone, they jumped at Brand.

I like Tim Kawakami. He's good.

But the Warriors definitely did mess up. They've been setting themselves up for this type of fall for 12 long months by insulting their franchise player with bad contract offers. The only thing that stopped Baron from lashing out and demanding a trade was some sage advice from Jerry West (according to Baron).

It took them what? 32 hours? between Baron opting out before they had any reaction whatsoever. They completely misjudged the landscape and didn't make a good enough offer to hold onto him.

Then after he leaves they waste their time on something (Brand) that is never going to happen again digging their own grave deeper into the ground. They've no backup plan in place whatsoever despite starting this starting 12 months ago.

Their whole franchise collapsed in the space of 24 hours. This should never have happened. This was avoidable.

Everything that happened is the Warriors fault.

I disagree, only because I think it was a smart basketball and business decision not to offer Baron the type of contract that the Clippers did.  And I don't think it's true that it took them 32 hours to react, only a few people really know for sure, but I'm sure they were prepared for that to happen and probably knew he'd be gone at that point.  I just think they decided it wasn't worth the risk to offer him the type of contract he wanted from them. 

Now offering an even larger deal to Gilbert Arenas.... not quite sure about that move

[iowa plowboy]

The Warriors get rid of Baron Von Raschke, a great player who plays when he feels like it....and potentially get one of the best low post players in the game....And a gamer.  I don't know if Brand fits Nelson's kind of offense.  But he gives them toughness they don't have right now.

Great move.

[BballTim]

but disagree that the Warriors messed up.  The lead sports writer for the San Jose Mercury News, who I like a lot, has a strong feeling that Brand's agent choreographed the whole thing with the opt outs and Davis coming to the Clippers.  I think the Warriors might have really thought Baron might stay, and if not they had made a huge offer to Arenas.  It seems that as soon as those two options were gone, they jumped at Brand.

I like Tim Kawakami. He's good.

But the Warriors definitely did mess up. They've been setting themselves up for this type of fall for 12 long months by insulting their franchise player with bad contract offers.

  How bad could the contract offers have been? What he signed was the equivalent of a 4 year $47M extension. I can't believe they didn't offer him more than that.

  Davis gets what amounts to about a 45% pay cut. The Clippers get a player who's turning 30 who's just had his first healthy season since 2002, and lose their best scorer in the process. The Warriors get nothing. Sounds like winners all around.

[cordobes]

but disagree that the Warriors messed up.  The lead sports writer for the San Jose Mercury News, who I like a lot, has a strong feeling that Brand's agent choreographed the whole thing with the opt outs and Davis coming to the Clippers.  I think the Warriors might have really thought Baron might stay, and if not they had made a huge offer to Arenas.  It seems that as soon as those two options were gone, they jumped at Brand.

I like Tim Kawakami. He's good.

But the Warriors definitely did mess up. They've been setting themselves up for this type of fall for 12 long months by insulting their franchise player with bad contract offers.

  How bad could the contract offers have been? What he signed was the equivalent of a 4 year $47M extension. I can't believe they didn't offer him more than that.

  Davis gets what amounts to about a 45% pay cut. The Clippers get a player who's turning 30 who's just had his first healthy season since 2002, and lose their best scorer in the process. The Warriors get nothing. Sounds like winners all around.

GSW offered Davis a 3 years/$37M extension. Davis didn't take a paycut, he will make more money than what he would accepting that deal. The Warriors get cap space and room to resign Ellis and Biedrins, that's valuable.

[Who]

I disagree, only because I think it was a smart basketball and business decision not to offer Baron the type of contract that the Clippers did. 

Okay. That's fair enough. There's certainly a reasonable case to be made for that.

Where do you think the Warriors go from here?

They've got enough talent on the roster where they're not going to stink. They'll be in that 30 win range where they avoid getting high lottery picks but never play meaningful games.

They're irrelevant and it happened in a day.

Twelve years without a playoff appearance. How long until the next one?

How do they get better? How do they build the contender?

Are they going to come out and refuse to pay Baron Davis and then hand the majority of his potential paycheck to Biedrins? Does that really make them better over the next 5 years?

Cap space and Free Agency? Who was the last major free agent to leave their team for Golden State? How are they going to convince the top tier free agents to join without a good enough supporting cast?

Where do they go from here? They're in the middle of nowhere and they're not heading in any firm direction.

[Big Ticket]

I disagree, only because I think it was a smart basketball and business decision not to offer Baron the type of contract that the Clippers did. 

Okay. That's fair enough. There's certainly a reasonable case to be made for that.

Where do you think the Warriors go from here?

I honestly don't know, but I think it at least means they may have some options in the future.  Eliminating any workable cap space for the next 5 years with Baron would've made that impossible.  I believe there are very few franchise players in this league worth a max or near maxdeal, and Baron is not one. 

I could open a whole new can of worms about my thought that they are hurt by playing in Oakland, somewhere that may be more unattractive to free agents that many other basketball cities... btu I won't get into that.

They've got enough talent on the roster where they're not going to stink. They'll be in that 30 win range where they avoid getting high lottery picks but never play meaningful games.

They're irrelevant and it happened in a day.

I agree again, but think even if they had kept Baron, they were a playoff team and would be getting even worse picks.  (They'd definitely be a lot more fun to watch and would put more butts in the seats though).

Twelve years without a playoff appearance. How long until the next one?

How do they get better? How do they build the contender?

That seems to be the problem for a lot of team out there.  If it really is all about rings, then I think they wait.  Wait for a max player to be available and jump at the chance.  In the meantime, develop Monta, Wright, Randolph, and Biedrins if you can keep him cheaply enough.  If, however, you [the front office] believe that an above .500 season with several sellouts and a decent profit, playoffs or not, is a success... then I guess you go after the best free agents you can right now and hope the fans keep coming.

Are they going to come out and refuse to pay Baron Davis and then hand the majority of his potential paycheck to Biedrins? Does that really make them better over the next 5 years?

God, I hope not.  I feel like some team will make a high-ball offer to Biedrins and I hope they don't match... but I won't blame them if they do.  Same with Ellis, although I see no way they let him go.

Cap space and Free Agency? Who was the last major free agent to leave their team for Golden State? How are they going to convince the top tier free agents to join without a good enough supporting cast?

Yep... goes back to my feeling earlier about free agents not going to Oakland.  I guess you hope that Ellis, Jackson, Wright, Randolph et al is considered a good enough supporting cast.  But if all those players are still around in a year or two, I'm not even sure how much cap room they'll have.  Maybe hope that a star becomes available for trade at a rock bottom price.... kinda like how they got Baron.

Where do they go from here? They're in the middle of nowhere and they're not heading in any firm direction.

Yeah, again agree... that's going to be the decision.  But now that I think about it I wouldn't be all that shocked if Biedrins is gone to save money.  Lock up Monta, try and work Harrington into a trade somehow, I really don't know...  Guess it all depends on the decision I posed earlier about championship or bust vs. turning a profit and competing.

[Who]

I can live with them not signing Baron Davis to big money if they blow the team up and suffer couple of really bad seasons in order to get higher draft picks. I can see hope for a better future with those picks.

What I can't live with is staying in the middle of nowhere.

They have a very strange collection of youth right now that makes that situation even more uncertain.

I thought they had a shot of building a team around Baron over the next couple of seasons. They have a few trade assets who have value. Their contract situation was good. They could have created something interesting. It's not like their players were unmovable and that there was no hope for restructuring the team. There was hope. They had assets to move.

Recreating what they had with Baron is going to be very difficult. Baron on his day is one of the best players in the league and he's capable of winning playoff series, just putting a team on his back and getting them over the hump. As long as they had him and options going forward they could build something good.

[cordobes]

Mullin should try to trade Jackson and Harrington for bad players with expirings, young players with upside and draft picks. They will suck next season, but they'll collect the assets to be one of the main actors in the trade market, free agency market and the draft for 2 consecutive years.

Develop Ellis, Biedrins, Belinelli, Azubuike, Randolph, Hendrix, Wright and the new talents acquired by trading the veterans. Then you have picks, expirings and young players with good stats to trade for stars and cap space to grab some complementary players in the market. 

[Big Ticket]

Well for the most part, again, I agree...  they are in the tough in-between and need to figure out where they're going.

Don't really know how to fix it... see if anyone will take Harrington?  Hope that you can keep Biedrins for a decent contract because he's still so young.  Keep Monta.  They could be going into next season with Monta, Biedrins, Jackson, Wright, Randolph, and cap room.  They need to get a mix of veterans and young guys back in any trade so that they are still bad but match contracts and would have guys to get rid of down the road. 

I'm not nearly smart enough to think of a solution, so I'd rather sit back from the other side of the Bay and see what they choose.  One of my buddies at work recently bought season tickets for next season... I feel bad for him.  He was loyal through many of the bad years and finally had saved enough to buy season tickets and see a team he thought would compete...

[TradeProposalDude]

I wouldn't be so sure he doesn't "bail out" on Baron and the Clippers. It could happen. One could argue that leaving all that money on the final year of his contract indicates that Brand doesn't place much value anymore on making as much dough as possible, and that he's more committed to winning than anything else. On the other hand, that is more money than I think the Clippers are willing to give Brand, so who really knows? Should be an interesting ending, that is all that can be said until further news is revealed to the masses.