OJ Mayo to Grizzlies, Kevin Love to the T-Wolves....

[Who]

You can also have Love simply coming off the bench and limit the Jefferson-Love time on the floor through the game.

They're certainly not done trading. I think they'll add another center to keep Jefferson and Love in the PF position for as long as possible. Still, I don't think you really care about fit in this Timberwolves team... they know they aren't going anywhere this year. You worry about fit when you're ready to compete.

My concerns with the fit isn't only short term. That's a mild concern. My major concern is the long term effect of the fit and how it makes future decisions more difficult.

This trades are early in the offseason, and the only thing people should focus at this point in time is the level of talent and financial flexibilty a team has. Making judgements or conclusions on what is a bad/good trade based on "fit" this early in the season is completely premature, and that's why you saw last year a bunch of idiotic columns thinking the Celtics will suck because they had no bench. Of course they had no bench, they just finished making the trade... they'll add more pieces. You can't focus on the value of a specific trade until you see how follow-up moves and trades go about.

My problem with this is that bench players are easy to add. You can leave that until later and be very comfortable about adding that.

What the Timberwolves are doing is closer to the Bulls not adding a low post scorer.

You add that low post scorer and all the decisions are easier to make. You have Aldridge and then Joakim makes great sense or Wallace makes great sense and suddenly all your perimeter guys fit in nicely. Instead you go into most situations desperate for that low post scorer.
................................

By the way I have similar concerns about the Toronto Raptors and their choice to add two big men. The concerns aren't interior defense with those two but the lack of perimeter defense and the lack of scoring/creativity on the perimeter.

[Who]

Okay I'll take a swing from a different angle to explain what I mean.

The Love-Al partnership has the opposite effect of a Tim Duncan or a Greg Oden. You put one of those two guys on your team and suddenly every decision looks smart because every type of player fits next to them. They're very easy to play with and easy to build around. A Love-Jefferson partnership isn't.

They won 22 games. It's not the time to limit your team.

[Who]

The difference is that they don't close any doors by selecting OJ Mayo. Mayo can play either guard spot. He can play on the ball, off the ball. He plays good defense. They can add any perimeter player and place them next to him. They can also add any big man next to him. He doesn't close any doors.

I understand where you are coming from with Love, though I do believe it offers significant possibilities on the offensive side of the ball.

My question for you.  Does Mayo really have the decision making criteria you want in a PG?  To me, it seems like they'd have just as much lack of flexibility at the guard position if they would have gone down that route.  Utlimately, I believe you'll see Randy Foye at the SG position. 

By getting Miller (who should play SF for them) AND removing that hideous Jaric contract, it helps. 

Does OJ Mayo have the ability to play the point?

I think he has the ability to play the point alongside a playmaking wing (say a player comparable to a Joe Johnson). So if the team is presented the chance to add that I'm very comfortable with OJ playing the point.

Otherwise no I'd look to use him as a shooting guard and add a point guard.

I don't rate Randy Foye too highly. He'd be a good backup combo guard (new-age Vinnie Johnson) for the future Wolves. I'm still waiting for him to prove he's worthy of a starting spot somewhere because I haven't seen it over his first two years. Just to show you where he is in my thinking - Foye doesn't even warrant mention in my mind when it comes to planning the Wolves future. He's completely expendable to me. Any decent trade and he's likely out the door - In the meantime Foye would have the opportunity to make his case for a starting job. Hopefully he'd establish himself and make the Wolves GM's job easier. That would be nice if he did that.

[BudweiserCeltic]

TP for BC - making my point! I did say I don''t trust McHale to follow up correctly, but the setup now is better than it was after pick 3 was made.

More important than this being a good or bad trade, is wether McHale does the right moves after this trade. I think his follow-up moves are more critical than the actual trade.

Logic tells me that they'll add a center and play Love coming off the bench, limiting Jefferson's time as a center. Logic tells me that they're not done trading from what I'm seeing in their roster. Logic tells me that they'll be in a good position to trade Jefferson or Love eventually when the right situation comes along.

That McHale does the right thing as the summer progresses and when eventually comes... that's a whole different argument. But in the current merits of the latest trade, it's not a bad trade for them. They could make it a bad trade just as they could make it a great trade depending on how McHale handles things from now on... but I think there's little trust on him doing the right thing, I certainly wouldn't.

Okay I'll take a swing from a different angle to explain what I mean.

The Love-Al partnership has the opposite effect of a Tim Duncan or a Greg Oden. You put one of those two guys on your team and suddenly every decision looks smart because every type of player fits next to them. They're very easy to play with and easy to build around. A Love-Jefferson partnership isn't.

They won 22 games. It's not the time to limit your team.

What about bringing Love off the bench? I think that solves the short term problem. The long term problem is solved by being able to trade one of the two without losing much in that particular position.

[timepiece33]

I think he has the ability to play the point alongside a playmaking wing (say a player comparable to a Joe Johnson). So if the team is presented the chance to add that I'm very comfortable with OJ playing the point.

Otherwise no I'd look to use him as a shooting guard and add a point guard.

No good team is going to have AJ Mayo anywhere near the PG position.  The guy simply doesn't have the decision making criteria to be a PG in this league and is much better suited for the SG position where his ball handling skills are a positive.

Also, I believe you are underrating Randy Foye.   He's not a star SG, but he can be a solid player for a while to come.   

[Who]

What about bringing Love off the bench? I think that solves the short term problem. The long term problem is solved by being able to trade one of the two without losing much in that particular position.

They should start him. If they could sign a decent center maybe it would work but what would that even look like at this point? Minnesota don't have the shooters to space the floor so the center needs to be able to put the ball in the basket at a decent clip.

It doesn't need to be a center either, it can be a power forward who has large help defensive qualities like shot blocking. A Joey Dorsey pick would have been an interesting short term solution. Emeka Okafor would be a fairly ideal candidate. Long term a Dalembert perhaps.

Long term the trade is the best option. It's likely the only option that results in the team being in position to contend for a title. I don't like the idea of drafting a player just to keep him for two years and then trade him. I don't like the plan of it. If the situation arose two years later and it happens so be it, but the plan of drafting someone who doesn't put the team in the best position to win just to trade him two years later on ... it irritates me as a fan. It's a farm system and I hate that. They had the third pick in the draft and there were players on the board that they could add to their team and hopefully build around in the future. Why do that ugly thing?

You're right the trade will work. I just hate it.

[Who]

Also, I believe you are underrating Randy Foye.   He's not a star SG, but he can be a solid player for a while to come.   

Just to shed some light on how I think as an explanation for Foye

With developing teams I only care about the youngsters with star potential. I was the same way with the Celtics over the past few years.

The rest of the youngsters in my mind are irrelevant ... I'll call them clutter for a short thought ... clutter that needs to be moved out of the way of the potential star youngsters if they're in the way or clutter that needs to be moved for veterans when the potential star is ready to take over.

If you have 8 youngsters only a few of them will make the cut, you're not building a team around all 8 of them. It would take an incredible group of youngsters for me to view them differently - an example of that is Portland's group because by some freakish happenstance they've managed to add poised youngsters who execute the game plan, play defense, are intelligent and they have extremely well balanced ball club. Because of that the team is at a stage where role players matter greatly. As a result Channing Frye isn't irrelevant to me, if he were on Minnesota he likely would be irrelevant to me because they're not at that stage and Minnesota can find role players later when they sort out the top of the ticket.

Foye is a fine player but he hasn't shown me he can be star. It's two years into his career and he's played on two teams that have given him great opportunities to be a go-to scorer or a playmaker or a point guard and frankly he's failed to achieve any of the three. He's also a below par defender which rubs in the failures. I'm happy giving him more time but I'm also happy walking away from him at this stage.

Ditto for McCants (who I think has more potential than Foye, if only some coach would teach him a change of pace dribble he'd be a 17-18ppg scorer for the rest of his career). Ditto for Gomes. Ditto for Telfair. Ditto for a few other guys like Snyder, Craig Smith, Richards. The only youngster on that roster pre-Draft outside of Big Al that still has significant long term meaning to me is Corey Brewer because he's young and a work-in-progress, is smart and plays good defense. The other guys, like Foye, can get back in the picture but they have to show more development and aptitude on the court.

Talented youngsters without star potential (say Paul Millsap) have a lot more value to me on a quality teams because their mistakes don't have as a large an affect because veterans can correct/hide some of them on the court and will teach them how to do better.

[Who]

I'm going back and forth on this trade again. I'm very confused by it. I'm going to retract by initial objection (on the Wolves side) and wait to see how it plays out. I've always said that I thought Love was the superior talent, maybe that will be enough to overcome the other issues the Wolves created for themselves. Short term it should be fine but the long term fit I'm still concerned about.

I've always said it was a bad trade for Memphis and I still believe that.

As the weeks tick on .... the part that irritates and disappoints me the most isn't OJ Mayo. It's the other trade involving Mario Chalmers. That kills me. A Chalmers-Mayo-Foye backcourt would have nice.

[wdleehi]

Maybe with a little luck, the T=Wolves will find that Jefferson and Love do not work together and decide to trade Al back to the Celtics for Ray's expiring contract.   




Good to dream

[Who]

Okay I've converted to the other side now. I applaud the trade made by Kevin McHale. I think it's very likely that he has to break up the Love-Jefferson combination at some point but the talent difference between Mayo and Love/Miller is big enough to make it worthwhile anyway.

I'm looking forward to watching to the Wolves this season. Al and Love should be good offensively, plus they have three 40% three point shooters if Foye can keep his end up. That's the makings of a good offense. If they can defend at an acceptable rate they could have a good season.

They should have kept Mario Chalmers though, he'd have been very useful for this team.

[arambone]

They should be fun to watch, but Big Al and Love are a pretty slow frontcourt. Quick bigs will have a field day.

[miraclejohan]

I'll let you know how they look....I'm going to the Wolves vs. the Bucks tomorrow night.  I live in Milwaukee now.  Yay basketball and affordable seats!  (I actually got seats today to see the cs here in november as well.)

[cordobes]

I'll let you know how they look....I'm going to the Wolves vs. the Bucks tomorrow night.  I live in Milwaukee now.  Yay basketball and affordable seats!  (I actually got seats today to see the cs here in november as well.)

Unfortunately, you wont' have that chance because Al Jefferson is injured. Still a report would be much appreciated.

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They should have kept Mario Chalmers though, he'd have been very useful for this team.

Yeah, me too. But haven't they traded that pick before the draft? Between Pekovic and Chalmers, I think they made the right decision. Pekovic has been impressive this pre-season with PAO, absolutely scary, I'm curious to see if he can keep the pace during the year.

[Who]

They should have kept Mario Chalmers though, he'd have been very useful for this team.

Yeah, me too. But haven't they traded that pick before the draft? Between Pekovic and Chalmers, I think they made the right decision. Pekovic has been impressive this pre-season with PAO, absolutely scary, I'm curious to see if he can keep the pace during the year.

They still had the draft pick. Pat Riley was scrambling in the middle of the draft after Chalmers started dropping, he made offers to every team in and around that Minny pick but couldn't get anyone else to bite. So Minnesota had the pick at the start of the draft and traded later on, prior to making the pick but close to the to the picking slot I believe. Oh if you mean before the actual draft pick, rather than the draft overall, then yes I think Minny did trade before the pick.

The Wolves had a very good idea at who they'd be giving up at the time of the trade.