Author Topic: Draft Tomic!  (Read 7491 times)

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Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 12:36:40 PM »

Offline winsomme

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i mean, one of the strategies mentioned in a couple articles recently (including the Spears column) was picking and INTL player to let him develop oversees for a couple of years. so unless that strategy has somehow become unfeasible across the board, i don't think it should be the deciding factor to not take Tomic (for example).

you could apply the same concern to Portland taking Batum with the #27 pick. i mean, that is not going to be a very lucrative contract. i'm sure he could make much more money playing oversees. why is Batum any more likely to come to the NBA than Tomic?

I think this is the point winsomme: the strategy is still feasible but not with every pick - especially not with late 1st picks.

Via DX:

Quote
Ibaka Wants to Go Second Round

An email from Serge Ibaka’s agent Justin Zanik to every NBA team circulated on Wednesday evening, which may drop his client’s stock into the 2nd round. Ibaka reportedly has an attractive four year contract offer from two separate ACB teams in Spain, which would provide him with a great deal of financial security, and also allow him to develop in a very comfortable environment. The contracts would have an NBA out after two seasons, but with a considerable buyout. Should Ibaka be drafted in the late first round, according to Zanik, “it would be a great burden to him to make the transition to the NBA if he is locked into the first round salary scale.”

I can perfectly see the same happening with Tomic agent. He may well be saying the teams: "you draft the kid in the 1st round and the next thing I'm on the phone with Maccabi/Oly/Telekom to talk about that 5year no-buyout clause contract. You draft him in the second round, and we can talk... he really wants to prove himself here.."

(I'm not sure Batum could make much more money. He certainly can't do as much money as Tomic in Europe. Batum is still very young and raw, big european teams don't like to give many minutes to this kind of players; Tomic is a ready player - the only reason he's unready to the NBA is the lack of body strength).

Batum is looking to got late in the second round too, though.....so San Antonio or Protland would have the same problem competing with European teams in terms of being hamstrung on how much money they could offer him...

Casspi and Claver both in the same skill bracket as Batum decided to stay out of this draft presumably for the same reason....

personally, i would roll the dice with Tomic or Ibaka if someone that we like isn't there.

Seattle and Portland both have a ton of picks and they are looking seriously at these guys. Portland might even take Tomic at 27 if Batum goes to SA at 26....

we could leverage them to get second tround picks and pick up a guy like Giddens or Mbah a Moute who are both players that would fill a need for us....and maybe also get another pick donw the road.

i think the strategy is still sound.

Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 01:35:17 PM »

Offline cordobes

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win, once again, I understand and appreciate your strategy, but the point remains: Tomic locked in the rookie scale is a much less valuable asset than the exact same Tomic drafted in the 2nd round. I've already explained there's no way Batum can get such a big contract in Europe - Batum is still a project and big European clubs don't pay big money to prospects because they rarely play them.

Claver quited because he'd possibly go undrafted (I said that he was just testing waters in his thread) and he's still under contract with Pamesa. Casspi resigned with Telaviv. OTH, Tomic doesn't have a contract right now, so it makes sense for him to stay in the draft this year.

I'll leave it at this: assuming that Pritchard likes Tomic, your plan is fine depending on what his agent is saying to teams. If he's threatening to pull a Splitter, there's no point in drafting him. Portland won't gave much for the rights of a guy who'll eventually join in 4 years. In that case, why shouldn't we draft Pekovic instead? He's better than all these guys together.

Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 01:47:46 PM »

Offline winsomme

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win, once again, I understand and appreciate your strategy, but the point remains: Tomic locked in the rookie scale is a much less valuable asset than the exact same Tomic drafted in the 2nd round. I've already explained there's no way Batum can get such a big contract in Europe - Batum is still a project and big European clubs don't pay big money to prospects because they rarely play them.

Claver quited because he'd possibly go undrafted (I said that he was just testing waters in his thread) and he's still under contract with Pamesa. Casspi resigned with Telaviv. OTH, Tomic doesn't have a contract right now, so it makes sense for him to stay in the draft this year.

I'll leave it at this: assuming that Pritchard likes Tomic, your plan is fine depending on what his agent is saying to teams. If he's threatening to pull a Splitter, there's no point in drafting him. Portland won't gave much for the rights of a guy who'll eventually join in 4 years. In that case, why shouldn't we draft Pekovic instead? He's better than all these guys together.

i guess i just don't agree with your feelings on each of the players....i mean, why could Casspi command more money than Batum? and there was no way Claver was going undrafted IMO.

plus, wasn't  Casspi not under contract when he was thinking about declaring for the draft?

there are two players that this really fits for..... Tomic and Ibaka....both apparently wanted by Seattle and Portland - each having early second round picks and i'm sure that they hope they last till then.

if they pass on these guys in the first round, and there is nobody there that the Cs are crazy about, i don't see the extreme risk or taking one of them.....gambling that these guys actually might want to play in the NBA seems like a decent gamble to me....

plus, i have seen a lot of reports of late that POR might take Tomic at #27, so that doesn't really fit with this idea that they don't want to play for these low level contracts in the NBA if that happens...

i agree that you have to go case by case, but it seems to me that you are leaning more toward the "they're not going to play here if they get picked late in the first round" angle than i am...

Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »

Offline Chris

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win, once again, I understand and appreciate your strategy, but the point remains: Tomic locked in the rookie scale is a much less valuable asset than the exact same Tomic drafted in the 2nd round. I've already explained there's no way Batum can get such a big contract in Europe - Batum is still a project and big European clubs don't pay big money to prospects because they rarely play them.

Claver quited because he'd possibly go undrafted (I said that he was just testing waters in his thread) and he's still under contract with Pamesa. Casspi resigned with Telaviv. OTH, Tomic doesn't have a contract right now, so it makes sense for him to stay in the draft this year.

I'll leave it at this: assuming that Pritchard likes Tomic, your plan is fine depending on what his agent is saying to teams. If he's threatening to pull a Splitter, there's no point in drafting him. Portland won't gave much for the rights of a guy who'll eventually join in 4 years. In that case, why shouldn't we draft Pekovic instead? He's better than all these guys together.

i guess i just don't agree with your feelings on each of the players....i mean, why could Casspi command more money than Batum?


Well, I can't say much about many of these players, but I have seen both of these two play, and I have to say that Casspi is light years ahead of Batum with his skills and overall polish. 

If Casspi was a good athlete, he would be an excellent NBA player right now, because he has a very well rounded game, and has one of the best motors I have ever seen.  But he is not very athletic, and therefore is not considered much of a NBA prospect.

In Europe however, you can get away with less than ideal athleticism, but you absolutely need to have well developed skills. 

Batum is a superior athlete, but he is still learning to play the game.  Guys like that are often able to succeed in the NBA, and get big money for their "potential"...but its just different in Europe.

Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2008, 02:05:11 PM »

Offline cordobes

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win, once again, I understand and appreciate your strategy, but the point remains: Tomic locked in the rookie scale is a much less valuable asset than the exact same Tomic drafted in the 2nd round. I've already explained there's no way Batum can get such a big contract in Europe - Batum is still a project and big European clubs don't pay big money to prospects because they rarely play them.

Claver quited because he'd possibly go undrafted (I said that he was just testing waters in his thread) and he's still under contract with Pamesa. Casspi resigned with Telaviv. OTH, Tomic doesn't have a contract right now, so it makes sense for him to stay in the draft this year.

I'll leave it at this: assuming that Pritchard likes Tomic, your plan is fine depending on what his agent is saying to teams. If he's threatening to pull a Splitter, there's no point in drafting him. Portland won't gave much for the rights of a guy who'll eventually join in 4 years. In that case, why shouldn't we draft Pekovic instead? He's better than all these guys together.


i guess i just don't agree with your feelings on each of the players....i mean, why could Casspi command more money than Batum? and there was no way Claver was going undrafted IMO.

plus, wasn't  Casspi not under contract when he was thinking about declaring for the draft?

there are two players that this really fits for..... Tomic and Ibaka....both apparently wanted by Seattle and Portland - each having early second round picks and i'm sure that they hope they last till then.

if they pass on these guys in the first round, and there is nobody there that the Cs are crazy about, i don't see the extreme risk or taking one of them.....gambling that these guys actually might want to play in the NBA seems like a decent gamble to me....

plus, i have seen a lot of reports of late that POR might take Tomic at #27, so that doesn't really fit with this idea that they don't want to play for these low level contracts in the NBA if that happens...

i agree that you have to go case by case, but it seems to me that you are leaning more toward the "they're not going to play here if they get picked late in the first round" angle than i am...

Well, that's what I'm saying: if his agent is saying that he's okay with a late 1st round contract, then your idea can work and I have nothing against it. If he's saying the opposite, I'd rather draft a player like Lee or CDR than taking the risk. I have no idea on what they want to do, so I'm not leaning towards any angle. (OTH, I don't think that Ibaka or Tomic can help us if we don't manage to trade their rights, so I reckon I may be a little biased...)

Casspi is an Israeli (it matters, as Le Mans or any other french team can't pay salaries like Maccabi) and he's much more ready and polished than Batum. Batum has the upside and the athleticism, but he's still very raw (that didn't stopped him of dropping 25 on Casspi's team this season, but that was only a single game... Batum is still that kind of player). Claver is over hyped. He worked out for lots of teams and he didn't get a 2nd round promise. I can easily see Claver playing in the Portuguese league in a couple of years if he doesn't start immediately working hard on his game.

Re: Draft Tomic!
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2008, 02:20:19 PM »

Offline winsomme

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win, once again, I understand and appreciate your strategy, but the point remains: Tomic locked in the rookie scale is a much less valuable asset than the exact same Tomic drafted in the 2nd round. I've already explained there's no way Batum can get such a big contract in Europe - Batum is still a project and big European clubs don't pay big money to prospects because they rarely play them.

Claver quited because he'd possibly go undrafted (I said that he was just testing waters in his thread) and he's still under contract with Pamesa. Casspi resigned with Telaviv. OTH, Tomic doesn't have a contract right now, so it makes sense for him to stay in the draft this year.

I'll leave it at this: assuming that Pritchard likes Tomic, your plan is fine depending on what his agent is saying to teams. If he's threatening to pull a Splitter, there's no point in drafting him. Portland won't gave much for the rights of a guy who'll eventually join in 4 years. In that case, why shouldn't we draft Pekovic instead? He's better than all these guys together.


i guess i just don't agree with your feelings on each of the players....i mean, why could Casspi command more money than Batum? and there was no way Claver was going undrafted IMO.

plus, wasn't  Casspi not under contract when he was thinking about declaring for the draft?

there are two players that this really fits for..... Tomic and Ibaka....both apparently wanted by Seattle and Portland - each having early second round picks and i'm sure that they hope they last till then.

if they pass on these guys in the first round, and there is nobody there that the Cs are crazy about, i don't see the extreme risk or taking one of them.....gambling that these guys actually might want to play in the NBA seems like a decent gamble to me....

plus, i have seen a lot of reports of late that POR might take Tomic at #27, so that doesn't really fit with this idea that they don't want to play for these low level contracts in the NBA if that happens...

i agree that you have to go case by case, but it seems to me that you are leaning more toward the "they're not going to play here if they get picked late in the first round" angle than i am...

Well, that's what I'm saying: if his agent is saying that he's okay with a late 1st round contract, then your idea can work and I have nothing against it. If he's saying the opposite, I'd rather draft a player like Lee or CDR than taking the risk. I have no idea on what they want to do, so I'm not leaning towards any angle. (OTH, I don't think that Ibaka or Tomic can help us if we don't manage to trade their rights, so I reckon I may be a little biased...)

Casspi is an Israeli (it matters, as Le Mans or any other french team can't pay salaries like Maccabi) and he's much more ready and polished than Batum. Batum has the upside and the athleticism, but he's still very raw (that didn't stopped him of dropping 25 on Casspi's team this season, but that was only a single game... Batum is still that kind of player). Claver is over hyped. He worked out for lots of teams and he didn't get a 2nd round promise. I can easily see Claver playing in the Portuguese league in a couple of years if he doesn't start immediately working hard on his game.

i agree on on Lee and CDR, and like i said i would only do this if guys like them are not there. and if that is the case i would even think about doing it with Ibaka because i would rather gamble on the possibility of him wanting to play in the NBA than some guy that we are not crazy about anyway.

as for Batum, i think the current state of his game is being overly criticized. he may not be that polished, but the guy is REALLY good. i remember Milke Gorman talking about him LAST draft season and he was super high on him.

he may have had a disappointing season, but that doesn't mean he will have the same again this season.....and if he gets picked where many think he will (#26, #27, etc..) he is going to have one of these unattractive contracts that INTL players seem to be eschewing...

hey, we shall see soon....