Author Topic: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky  (Read 11687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2008, 10:18:56 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

  • NCE
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17914
  • Tommy Points: 1294
Actually this rumour might not be completely baseless. I found this:

Quote
Almost immediately after Pierce began dropping, rumors spread around the league that he had poor training habits and that his postseason workouts had been lackluster. (Nuggets general manager Dan Issel had called him a terrific scorer who "might be a little soft" shortly before the draft.) Yet Pierce fell mainly because 1) he had told the Raptors, choosing No. 4, and the Kings, picking No. 7, that he didn't want to play for them, and 2) he didn't fit the needs of the other teams with choices high in the order.

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

In retrospect, Dan Issel made himself look like a fool. Paul Pierce? Soft? Heh. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but that's another issue :)

Interesting.  I can see why he wouldn't have wanted to play in Canada.  Why not Sacramento, though?
That season the Kings had Mitch Richmond, Corliss Williamson and Billy Owens logging major minutes -- I can see why Pierce wouldn't want to be stuck behind them.

Either way, that team was putrid to begin with. They had 27 wins that season and Yogi Steward averaged 20 minutes per game (although, to be honest, this was his only half-decent season in the NBA -- he had 2+ blocks per game).
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 10:41:04 PM »

Offline TradeProposalDude

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 536
  • Tommy Points: 56
Watch the Beyond the glory segment. It's on youtube...

Pierce dropped because he was out of shape.

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2008, 11:07:28 PM »

Offline jayc429

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 28
  • Tommy Points: 8
  I'll just c&p my response from another thread.



Neither is completely correct.  PP's agent did tell Toronto that he didn't want them to draft him.  It wasn't because they were a bad team.  It was because he and his agent thought there was no way he would drop any lower than fifth and if he did drop he wanted to play close to his friends and family, his birthplace, Oakland.

The reason he dropped is complicated.  Everyone knew the 1st two draftee's were going to be Olowakandi and Bibby.  There was no secret about that. 
When Denver picked LaFrentz it was a shock.  Denver fans were not happy.  The Nuggets started the rumor that Pierce was out of shape and his workouts were lacking.  The other GM's have since refuted that rumor, but it doesn't matter because that's what stuck.  Golden State and Toronto had already made their deal for Toronto to take Jamison and trade him for Carter. Jamison was the NCAA player of the year, so that was not shocking that Golden State would take him and Toronto was already told PP didn't want to play for them.  After that it was just combination of poor scouting (Bucks)and promises to other players (76ers).

And there you have it.  That's how a Finals MVP and future HOFer gets drafted at #10. That's what makes the draft so interesting.  You never know what will happen.

 
 

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 12:16:46 AM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Actually this rumour might not be completely baseless. I found this:

Quote
Almost immediately after Pierce began dropping, rumors spread around the league that he had poor training habits and that his postseason workouts had been lackluster. (Nuggets general manager Dan Issel had called him a terrific scorer who "might be a little soft" shortly before the draft.) Yet Pierce fell mainly because 1) he had told the Raptors, choosing No. 4, and the Kings, picking No. 7, that he didn't want to play for them, and 2) he didn't fit the needs of the other teams with choices high in the order.

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

In retrospect, Dan Issel made himself look like a fool. Paul Pierce? Soft? Heh. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but that's another issue :)

  I don't remember the exact details but I can remember hearing that when Paul started falling his agent called a couple of teams and told them not to pick him.

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2008, 12:30:55 AM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
  I'll just c&p my response from another thread.



Neither is completely correct.  PP's agent did tell Toronto that he didn't want them to draft him.  It wasn't because they were a bad team.  It was because he and his agent thought there was no way he would drop any lower than fifth and if he did drop he wanted to play close to his friends and family, his birthplace, Oakland.

The reason he dropped is complicated.  Everyone knew the 1st two draftee's were going to be Olowakandi and Bibby.  There was no secret about that. 
When Denver picked LaFrentz it was a shock.  Denver fans were not happy.  The Nuggets started the rumor that Pierce was out of shape and his workouts were lacking.  The other GM's have since refuted that rumor, but it doesn't matter because that's what stuck.  Golden State and Toronto had already made their deal for Toronto to take Jamison and trade him for Carter. Jamison was the NCAA player of the year, so that was not shocking that Golden State would take him and Toronto was already told PP didn't want to play for them.  After that it was just combination of poor scouting (Bucks)and promises to other players (76ers).

And there you have it.  That's how a Finals MVP and future HOFer gets drafted at #10. That's what makes the draft so interesting.  You never know what will happen.

 
 



Portland did the same thing to Big Al.....

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 12:34:29 AM »

Offline jayc429

  • Xavier Tillman
  • Posts: 28
  • Tommy Points: 8
Pierce dropped because he was considered a "tweener" and a scorer without great athleticism.  Pierce didn't have especially good handles, was not considered a great passer and was thought to be too small to finish inside.  He was considered a post-up shooter.


While some of that is true, Pierce also was plagued with the tag of mentality soft as when the biggest game of the year came up, he disappeared, namely his horrendous showing in the NCAA tournament that year.

With LaFrentz and Pierce, the Jayhawks were favorites to breeze through the regionals and straight through the Final Four to a title. But Pierce was a no show for that second round game against Lamar Odom and Rhode Island and it cost his reputation big time.

That's why Pierce was so driven to prove the teams who passed him over were wrong. They questioned his heart more than they questioned his skill and it ate at him terribly.

When Pierce wasn't chosen second in that draft the announcers were shocked. When he wasn't chosen third they were more shocked. And so on it went with the announcers constantly questioning why he wasn't being selected and always referencing that KU/URI game.

Until I see a link telling me otherwise, that is what I remember about the whole incident. And I remember it like it was yesterday because after the Duncan draft lottery fiasco, I thought Pierce dropping into our laps at 10th was the beginning of a turnaround in Celtic luck and history. How little did I realize that I was right but that that luck wouldn't pay ultimate dividends for 10 years. But at least Pierce got to have the last laugh over Odom.

I don't know where some of this is coming from but it could not be any further from the truth.

Unathletic tweener????  Uh, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAzagOYYP0

Paul Pierce was considered a swingman..IOW, he could play the 2 or the 3.  That's NOT a tweener, and it proved to be true.  Not only that but it was/is considered a plus if you can play more than one position at a high level, which also proved to be true.  I never once heard the word tweener about Paul Pierce.

Mentally soft and didn't show up for the big games????  Are you crazy?

Aside from coming in second in the McDonalds All-American dunk contest (unathletic?), he tied Michael Jordans record for points with 28. Garnett won MVP of that game, however, Pierce was one of three players whose jersey was stolen before the game and he had to wear someone elses jersey.  The announcers half the time didn't know who was scoring and I'm sure that the MVP voters had the same problem.

Pierce played in three conference tournaments and was the MVP of two of them.
He won MVP of tournaments in Hawaii, Madison Square Garden, and Chicago.

He scored 15 straight points on Senior night to beat Kelvin Sampsons Sooners.  Sampson called a time out and slapped PP on the butt when he ran by the bench. Pierce was 14-17 for 31 pts in that game, making sure the Seniors (and himself) went out with a win.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun/01/former_teammates_laud_pierce/

Against Rhode Island he was 9-19 for 23 pts and 5 assists.  I wouldn't call that a no show.

The year before against Arizona he was 9-13 for 27 pts and 11 reb. That season he scored in double figures in 30 straight games and led the team in scoring in all 6 post season games.  That's as a sophomore playing with 4 future NBA players all older than he was.

I mean, really.....where does this stuff come from?

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2008, 12:43:52 AM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
Actually this rumour might not be completely baseless. I found this:

Quote
Almost immediately after Pierce began dropping, rumors spread around the league that he had poor training habits and that his postseason workouts had been lackluster. (Nuggets general manager Dan Issel had called him a terrific scorer who "might be a little soft" shortly before the draft.) Yet Pierce fell mainly because 1) he had told the Raptors, choosing No. 4, and the Kings, picking No. 7, that he didn't want to play for them, and 2) he didn't fit the needs of the other teams with choices high in the order.

Source: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

In retrospect, Dan Issel made himself look like a fool. Paul Pierce? Soft? Heh. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but that's another issue :)


  I don't remember the exact details but I can remember hearing that when Paul started falling his agent called a couple of teams and told them not to pick him.

i don't remember the phone calls, but i do remember the complete and absolute SHOCK that Pierce was there at #10. Pitino didn't even work him out or take a serious look at him. it would be like Milwaukee working out Beasley...

i also remember the Pitino travelled to Europe to see Dirk in person and that i think Nellie did the same thing.....this was back when INTL players were like some kind of secret weapon that nobody quite knew how to utilize...

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2008, 12:46:41 AM »

Offline winsomme

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6058
  • Tommy Points: 255
here's an interesting article on the topic:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/1998/weekly/980706/nba0706/a.html

same article as above....sorry...

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2008, 12:55:34 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
Pierce dropped because he was considered a "tweener" and a scorer without great athleticism.  Pierce didn't have especially good handles, was not considered a great passer and was thought to be too small to finish inside.  He was considered a post-up shooter.


While some of that is true, Pierce also was plagued with the tag of mentality soft as when the biggest game of the year came up, he disappeared, namely his horrendous showing in the NCAA tournament that year.

With LaFrentz and Pierce, the Jayhawks were favorites to breeze through the regionals and straight through the Final Four to a title. But Pierce was a no show for that second round game against Lamar Odom and Rhode Island and it cost his reputation big time.

That's why Pierce was so driven to prove the teams who passed him over were wrong. They questioned his heart more than they questioned his skill and it ate at him terribly.

When Pierce wasn't chosen second in that draft the announcers were shocked. When he wasn't chosen third they were more shocked. And so on it went with the announcers constantly questioning why he wasn't being selected and always referencing that KU/URI game.

Until I see a link telling me otherwise, that is what I remember about the whole incident. And I remember it like it was yesterday because after the Duncan draft lottery fiasco, I thought Pierce dropping into our laps at 10th was the beginning of a turnaround in Celtic luck and history. How little did I realize that I was right but that that luck wouldn't pay ultimate dividends for 10 years. But at least Pierce got to have the last laugh over Odom.

I don't know where some of this is coming from but it could not be any further from the truth.

Unathletic tweener????  Uh, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAzagOYYP0

Paul Pierce was considered a swingman..IOW, he could play the 2 or the 3.  That's NOT a tweener, and it proved to be true.  Not only that but it was/is considered a plus if you can play more than one position at a high level, which also proved to be true.  I never once heard the word tweener about Paul Pierce.

Mentally soft and didn't show up for the big games????  Are you crazy?

Aside from coming in second in the McDonalds All-American dunk contest (unathletic?), he tied Michael Jordans record for points with 28. Garnett won MVP of that game, however, Pierce was one of three players whose jersey was stolen before the game and he had to wear someone elses jersey.  The announcers half the time didn't know who was scoring and I'm sure that the MVP voters had the same problem.

Pierce played in three conference tournaments and was the MVP of two of them.
He won MVP of tournaments in Hawaii, Madison Square Garden, and Chicago.

He scored 15 straight points on Senior night to beat Kelvin Sampsons Sooners.  Sampson called a time out and slapped PP on the butt when he ran by the bench. Pierce was 14-17 for 31 pts in that game, making sure the Seniors (and himself) went out with a win.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun/01/former_teammates_laud_pierce/

Against Rhode Island he was 9-19 for 23 pts and 5 assists.  I wouldn't call that a no show.

The year before against Arizona he was 9-13 for 27 pts and 11 reb. That season he scored in double figures in 30 straight games and led the team in scoring in all 6 post season games.  That's as a sophomore playing with 4 future NBA players all older than he was.

I mean, really.....where does this stuff come from?
First of all great video
I love it
Tp
2nd there are good and bad tweeners
PP is a PERFECT tweener
hes a 2 a 3 and a 4
make ur call
3rd We are the champions and hes the champions best
so
Thank god hes with us
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2008, 01:06:23 AM »

Offline Bahku

  • CB HOF Editor
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19771
  • Tommy Points: 3632
  • Oe ma krr pamtseotu
Pierce dropped because he was considered a "tweener" and a scorer without great athleticism.  Pierce didn't have especially good handles, was not considered a great passer and was thought to be too small to finish inside.  He was considered a post-up shooter.


While some of that is true, Pierce also was plagued with the tag of mentality soft as when the biggest game of the year came up, he disappeared, namely his horrendous showing in the NCAA tournament that year.

With LaFrentz and Pierce, the Jayhawks were favorites to breeze through the regionals and straight through the Final Four to a title. But Pierce was a no show for that second round game against Lamar Odom and Rhode Island and it cost his reputation big time.

That's why Pierce was so driven to prove the teams who passed him over were wrong. They questioned his heart more than they questioned his skill and it ate at him terribly.

When Pierce wasn't chosen second in that draft the announcers were shocked. When he wasn't chosen third they were more shocked. And so on it went with the announcers constantly questioning why he wasn't being selected and always referencing that KU/URI game.

Until I see a link telling me otherwise, that is what I remember about the whole incident. And I remember it like it was yesterday because after the Duncan draft lottery fiasco, I thought Pierce dropping into our laps at 10th was the beginning of a turnaround in Celtic luck and history. How little did I realize that I was right but that that luck wouldn't pay ultimate dividends for 10 years. But at least Pierce got to have the last laugh over Odom.

I don't know where some of this is coming from but it could not be any further from the truth.

Unathletic tweener????  Uh, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BAzagOYYP0

Paul Pierce was considered a swingman..IOW, he could play the 2 or the 3.  That's NOT a tweener, and it proved to be true.  Not only that but it was/is considered a plus if you can play more than one position at a high level, which also proved to be true.  I never once heard the word tweener about Paul Pierce.

Mentally soft and didn't show up for the big games????  Are you crazy?

Aside from coming in second in the McDonalds All-American dunk contest (unathletic?), he tied Michael Jordans record for points with 28. Garnett won MVP of that game, however, Pierce was one of three players whose jersey was stolen before the game and he had to wear someone elses jersey.  The announcers half the time didn't know who was scoring and I'm sure that the MVP voters had the same problem.

Pierce played in three conference tournaments and was the MVP of two of them.
He won MVP of tournaments in Hawaii, Madison Square Garden, and Chicago.

He scored 15 straight points on Senior night to beat Kelvin Sampsons Sooners.  Sampson called a time out and slapped PP on the butt when he ran by the bench. Pierce was 14-17 for 31 pts in that game, making sure the Seniors (and himself) went out with a win.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2008/jun/01/former_teammates_laud_pierce/

Against Rhode Island he was 9-19 for 23 pts and 5 assists.  I wouldn't call that a no show.

The year before against Arizona he was 9-13 for 27 pts and 11 reb. That season he scored in double figures in 30 straight games and led the team in scoring in all 6 post season games.  That's as a sophomore playing with 4 future NBA players all older than he was.

I mean, really.....where does this stuff come from?

I'm with Edgar ... TP for the great vid and post. I followed Pierce pretty cosely over the years, and I have no idea where these concepts come from. Unathletic? Lackluster work ethic? Tweener? This stuff just has very little basis in reality, along with the original post. This stuff invariably pops up after Championships, in the need by the "haters" to degrade anyone who's been successful ... especially MVP's.

There's always a large contingent who feel it's their duty to lessen the status of anyone remotely superior to themselves, or anyone who they feel doesn't deserve the accolades being given them. Kinda sad, really, but a fact of life. Pierce is fair game for such people, and the fact that he's become highly visible as a result of his recent success, brings with it the inevitable fall-out from the throngs of haters and detracters. It truly sucks.
2010 PAPOUG, 2012 & 2017 PAPTYG CHAMP, HD BOT

* BAHKU MUSIC *

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2008, 01:17:27 AM »

Offline TripleOT

  • Chat Moderator
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1993
  • Tommy Points: 213

While some of that is true, Pierce also was plagued with the tag of mentality soft as when the biggest game of the year came up, he disappeared, namely his horrendous showing in the NCAA tournament that year.

With LaFrentz and Pierce, the Jayhawks were favorites to breeze through the regionals and straight through the Final Four to a title. But Pierce was a no show for that second round game against Lamar Odom and Rhode Island and it cost his reputation big time.

That's why Pierce was so driven to prove the teams who passed him over were wrong. They questioned his heart more than they questioned his skill and it ate at him terribly.

When Pierce wasn't chosen second in that draft the announcers were shocked. When he wasn't chosen third they were more shocked. And so on it went with the announcers constantly questioning why he wasn't being selected and always referencing that KU/URI game.

Until I see a link telling me otherwise, that is what I remember about the whole incident. And I remember it like it was yesterday because after the Duncan draft lottery fiasco, I thought Pierce dropping into our laps at 10th was the beginning of a turnaround in Celtic luck and history. How little did I realize that I was right but that that luck wouldn't pay ultimate dividends for 10 years. But at least Pierce got to have the last laugh over Odom.

Great story, Nick.  Too bad it isn't entirely true.  Lamar Odom was enrolled at URI that year, but wasn't allowed to play, even though he was eligible.  URI admitted him after his questionable recruitment at UNLV, with the president of URI actually making the final decision after requiring LO to write a short essay for him (I'm not making this up).  After an idiot columnist from the Providence Journal, Jim Donaldson called URI out for lax standards, the school backtracked and said Odom couldn't play for one year while getting acclimated to college.

Too bad, because URI actually could have won the national championship that year with Odom. Led by Cuttino Mobley, the Running Rams not only dispatched Pierce and the first seed Jayhawks in the second round in Oklahoma City, but went on to beat cinderella Bryce Drew for a trip to the Elite Eight.  A non-call when Mark Madsen hacked Mobley when he was running out the clock with the lead, and Stanford advanced to a very weak Final Four. I remember it very well, because as a URI alumnus, I was in the stands in St. Louis for the Sweet 16 games.  I also had a hookup for Final Four tickets all set, before my team was robbed.

Nick, you did get it right that the luster was off Pierce a bit after Cuttino outplayed him and Kansas was eliminate early.  And you were right that Pierce got some revenge over Odom in the Finals, who was on the URI bench all that year in street clothes. LO was one and done the next year, winning the Atlantic 10 championship with a shot at the buzzer, but also flopping in the NCAA Tourney, losing in the first round to Purdue IIRC. 

With Pierce loving Kansas so much, and being so wrapped up in the NCAA tourney every year, I'm guessing that he doesn't even like driving through Rhode Island.  The memory is just too painful. 

       


Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2008, 01:24:19 AM »

Offline fmf2

  • Oshae Brissett
  • Posts: 68
  • Tommy Points: 11
I remember readin mock drafts at the time which had PP going anywhere between picks 2-5. I thought we'd end up with Dirk.

It must be destiny.

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2008, 01:30:25 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
  • Tommy Points: 157
  • Word aapp!
I remember readin mock drafts at the time which had PP going anywhere between picks 2-5. I thought we'd end up with Dirk.

It must be destiny.

I think it was Pitino who said Red was extremely excited about Dirk because  he "sounded like Larry Bird." Well, I think we should be thanking our lucky stars that we were lucky enough for Milwaukee to draft Dirk and trade him to Dallas.

I was basically in my basketball fandom infancy when I first saw Paul Pierce play (Before I even payed attention to the Celtics or the NBA and before I knew all about college ball.. and specifically that player's only stayed for four or less years) and I was pretty upset when Paul left Kansas because I never thought I'd see him play again.

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2008, 01:36:13 AM »

Offline Edgar

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24646
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • No contaban con mi astucia !!!
I remember readin mock drafts at the time which had PP going anywhere between picks 2-5. I thought we'd end up with Dirk.

It must be destiny.

I think it was Pitino who said Red was extremely excited about Dirk because  he "sounded like Larry Bird." Well, I think we should be thanking our lucky stars that we were lucky enough for Milwaukee to draft Dirk and trade him to Dallas.

I was basically in my basketball fandom infancy when I first saw Paul Pierce play (Before I even payed attention to the Celtics or the NBA and before I knew all about college ball.. and specifically that player's only stayed for four or less years) and I was pretty upset when Paul left Kansas because I never thought I'd see him play again.
Perk, Dirk, Howard,  Allen, Kidd
Perk, Garnett, Pierce, Allen, Rondo

I D K
Guys its imposible
theres no crystal ball
we win and thats all that matters
thanks god

BTW i do think of Kandi, Dirk, Mercer, ....
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: Paul Pierce dropped in draft since he was very picky
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2008, 01:42:54 AM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4608
  • Tommy Points: 157
  • Word aapp!
I'm taking a Paul Pierce led team over a Nowitzki led team any day of the week. I think Dirk is probably the most overrated player in the NBA today. He's seven feet tall and he shoots three's while not being anything particularly special on the boards. What's all the hoopla about?