Author Topic: If Wallace pulls this off we would have to take back all those bad things said..  (Read 11001 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642
No way he should give up Conley.  And the grizz need a center, not a pf, so I'm not sure why Beasley is so attractive.

Because he is the most talented player in the draft, and may be the most talented prospect to come out in a long time.

I really think people are sleeping on just how good Beasley is. 

Offline cordobes

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3556
  • Tommy Points: 576
  • Basketball is like chess, only without the dice

Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

If their 6th pick is not included, this trade is too good to NY. They're basically trading David Lee for the 5th pick plus a year of Cardinal's contract (something that really doesn't matter to them, as it expires before 2010, the first year they have the chance to be under the cap). I like David Lee, but he is who he is: far from worthy of a 5th pick than can be used to draft a player like Love. This is much more a Wallace kind of trade.

The Miami trade... I don't know... if Wallace thinks that Conley won't be better than their other pgs, he should pull the trigger.

Offline Chief

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21216
  • Tommy Points: 2450
I have been to a few games in Memphis and Beasely might help the attendance. The people of Memphis come out in droves to support the Memphis Tigers but rarely the Grizzlies. And I don't blame them. Nobody wants to pay money to see Gasol and Battier. But they might to see Beasley.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Offline TradeProposalDude

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 536
  • Tommy Points: 56
Chris Wallace has always been a terrific evaluator of talent but poor judge of what makes an equal trade.

I don't know about that.  Wasn't it Wallace that pushed for Kedrick Brown?  He deferred to Red on the Forte pick, but the Brown pick (and the decision to trade Joe Johnson instead of Brown) falls squarely on Wallace's shoulders.

I can't think of too many good draft picks that were made while Wallace was here that suggests to me that he can evaluate talent.  Joe Johnson.  He tried to take credit for Leon Powe.  Who else?
That is why I say he is a poor judge of a good trade. He picked Joe Johnson at 10, knowing what kind of career might be in store for him, but pulled the trigger on a trade in 2002 which makes the Celtics look like idiots 6 years later. The Kedrick Brown pick was questionable, but you must realize that a confident Kedrick Brown (which he was not) under a coach like Doc Rivers who honed player development and rebuilding instead of Jim O'Brien, who didn't, would have had a chance to prosper. Brown was a pretty darn good defender and he could penetrate on anyone when he committed himself. I remember thinking in spurts - whoa, this guy is good. But he just never took the next step and I blame the coaching personnel who made no effort to make him a better player.

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
If including Miller meant taking back Blount, I wouldn't do it whether it was Conley or Lowry were the other piece.

I think the main point is that I believe Beasley is head and shoulders above all of these other players be it Conley, Lopez, Love, who every.  Love is not going to be Kevin McHale but Beasley "Could" be Larry Bird.  I think Beasley is better than Kevin Durrant, better than Carmelo; short of LeBron I think he is right there with anyone (at that position).  Now I could be all wrong about that because you just never know but for my money, Beasley is "the man" this year.

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
Chris Wallace has always been a terrific evaluator of talent but poor judge of what makes an equal trade.

I don't know about that.  Wasn't it Wallace that pushed for Kedrick Brown?  He deferred to Red on the Forte pick, but the Brown pick (and the decision to trade Joe Johnson instead of Brown) falls squarely on Wallace's shoulders.

I can't think of too many good draft picks that were made while Wallace was here that suggests to me that he can evaluate talent.  Joe Johnson.  He tried to take credit for Leon Powe.  Who else?
That is why I say he is a poor judge of a good trade. He picked Joe Johnson at 10, knowing what kind of career might be in store for him, but pulled the trigger on a trade in 2002 which makes the Celtics look like idiots 6 years later. The Kedrick Brown pick was questionable, but you must realize that a confident Kedrick Brown (which he was not) under a coach like Doc Rivers who honed player development and rebuilding instead of Jim O'Brien, who didn't, would have had a chance to prosper. Brown was a pretty darn good defender and he could penetrate on anyone when he committed himself. I remember thinking in spurts - whoa, this guy is good. But he just never took the next step and I blame the coaching personnel who made no effort to make him a better player.

I don't know.  Kedrick got quite a few minutes here, including several starts.  He also went to Cleveland and Philly, where he showed nothing (despite being made a starter in Cleveland, as well).  The kid was lazy and got fat; I'm not blaming the coaching staff.  I wish him all the best in his comeback attempt, but he was a very poor pick for us; I don't think Red Auerbach could have made this kid into something other than a scrub.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Offline Andy Jick

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3795
  • Tommy Points: 89
  • You know my methods, Watson.
we can't also forget that the celtics were drafting for a "system" and not necessarily basing their decisions on talent alone.  they wanted athletes who could play the up-tempo / pitino pressing style.  kedrick brown and jerome moiso were those types of players...dumb thing to do, quite obviously.

ALWAYS take the best player available, no matter what.
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
As for the topic at hand, Mike Miller is one of those rare guys who produces at or above the price of his contract. He is a valuable trade chip but a terrific piece to hold on to if Memphis elects to make a playoff run in the near future.
Mike Miller is paid $9-10mil a season. No way does he out-produce his contract. Overrated player since he landed in Memphis.

Offline PRIDE

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 488
  • Tommy Points: 41
Riles is the man if he pulls this one off. They could get Lopez, Love, Westbrook or Bayless to go with a lineup of Conley, Wade, Marion.

Offline Steve Weinman

  • Author / Moderator
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2766
  • Tommy Points: 33
  • My alter ego


Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

Now that sounds like a standard Chris Wallace trade!

-sw


Reggies Ghost: Where artistic genius happens.  Thank you, sir.

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642


Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

Now that sounds like a standard Chris Wallace trade!

-sw

If he makes that trade, can we all just agree to drop the whole "he is incompetent" thing, and finally admit with about as much certainty as you will ever have that he is simply a very good fall guy for incredibly cheap owners?

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale


Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

Now that sounds like a standard Chris Wallace trade!

-sw

If he makes that trade, can we all just agree to drop the whole "he is incompetent" thing, and finally admit with about as much certainty as you will ever have that he is simply a very good fall guy for incredibly cheap owners?

Yes and no.  First, he *is* incompetent, as shown by some of the decisions he's made that weren't motivated by money.  Secondly, even if his primary job is to shed salary -- and I believe that it is -- there has got be be better value out there than the Gasol trade, or this suggested trade involving the Knicks.  I'm sure there are several teams that would take on some salary for a top-five pick.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18008
  • Tommy Points: 642


Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

Now that sounds like a standard Chris Wallace trade!

-sw

If he makes that trade, can we all just agree to drop the whole "he is incompetent" thing, and finally admit with about as much certainty as you will ever have that he is simply a very good fall guy for incredibly cheap owners?

Yes and no.  First, he *is* incompetent, as shown by some of the decisions he's made that weren't motivated by money.  Secondly, even if his primary job is to shed salary -- and I believe that it is -- there has got be be better value out there than the Gasol trade, or this suggested trade involving the Knicks.  I'm sure there are several teams that would take on some salary for a top-five pick.

Other than the whole Kedrick Brown/Joe Forte fiasco, what bad decisions did he make that didn't have to do with money?  I have such a bad memory of when he was actually in charge (rather than Pitino or Ainge), I just don't remember.

Offline RebusRankin

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9143
  • Tommy Points: 923
Wallace did such a bad job for the Celtics that Celtics fans never will have to take back all the bad things that have been said.

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale


Another rumour of Memphis trading No.5+Cardinal for Malik Rose+David Lee.

Now that sounds like a standard Chris Wallace trade!

-sw

If he makes that trade, can we all just agree to drop the whole "he is incompetent" thing, and finally admit with about as much certainty as you will ever have that he is simply a very good fall guy for incredibly cheap owners?

Yes and no.  First, he *is* incompetent, as shown by some of the decisions he's made that weren't motivated by money.  Secondly, even if his primary job is to shed salary -- and I believe that it is -- there has got be be better value out there than the Gasol trade, or this suggested trade involving the Knicks.  I'm sure there are several teams that would take on some salary for a top-five pick.

Other than the whole Kedrick Brown/Joe Forte fiasco, what bad decisions did he make that didn't have to do with money?  I have such a bad memory of when he was actually in charge (rather than Pitino or Ainge), I just don't remember.

As you say, it's hard to tell which moves were Wallace's, and which were Pitino's.  For instance, who was responsible for the horrid Potapenko for lottery pick deal?  Chris Wallace was technically the General Manager, but Pitino was the one overseeing everything.  It's impossible to say who was the actual point person on that one.

In terms of stuff we know Wallace presided over, there was the Vin Baker debacle, which was financial.  There was the Kedrick Brown and Joe Forte picks, which Wallace was in charge of (even if he chose to defer to Red's choice on Forte).  There was the decision to exercise Denver's pick at all, rather than carry it over to the following season, as was our option.  There was the Joe Johnson + #1 for Tony Delk / Rodney Rogers trade, when Phoenix wanted Kedrick.  He was heavily involved in the selection of Jerome Moiso. 

That's not a great track record.  The only -- only -- positive move I can think of that Wallace made was dumping Moiso for a future #1.  I guess maybe you could ad trading for Mark Blount back when he actually had a work ethic, but that subject is just too irritating to discuss rationally.

As a random aside, the best thing about reading Wallace's resume definitely was the following: "October 17 2000: Waived guard Michael Jordan" ;)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions