Lebron vs. Kobe

[TheReaLPuba]

Kobe is the most gifted and skilled offensive basketball player since Jordan.

He has been playing with a torn ligament or tendon in his finger on his shooting hand so he hasn't been 100%

I don't know how much pain he's endured but it's safe to say he could probably play better if he got that fixed with surgery.

I think LeBron was more impressive only because he was creating plays for other guys and HIS GUYS MADE SHOTS.

LeBron will be a better player in the end than Kobe and probably better than Jordan when it's all said and done....but right now Kobe is still the best individual player on the planet.

[DingDongDel]

I say Lebron all the way. And I feel that Kobe gets more credit because we can relate more to what he does. He looks and scores more like an average person would. It's impossible to relate to how Lebron scores. I mean, the dude is bigger than Elton Brand but he's quicker than a lot of point guards in the league. It's ridiculous. And to top if off, Lebron is a better passer and rebounder.

[Hollywoodhackk]

I give Lebron the edge because of his size and strength, although Kobe is a better jump shooter.  I guess if you break down they're individual series in the playoffs against the Celtics, Labron just looked a bit tougher.

Also Lebron and Pierce battled that whole series and had a game seven shootout for the ages....In the finals against Kobe...not so much.  

Adam (Gang Green)

[Roy Hobbs]

To add the statistical element:

Player A: 30.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.8 spg, 1.1 bpg, 48.4 FG%, 31.5 3PT%, 3.4 tpg, 2.2 fouls, 51.8 eFG%, 56.8 TS%, 29.1 PER

Player B: 28.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.4 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.5 bpg, 45.9 FG%, 36.1 3PT%, 3.1 tpg, 2.8 fouls, 50.3 eFG%, 57.6 TS%, 24.2 PER

I'll take Player A, especially when he's surrounded by inferior teammates.

[drza44]

Kobe is still slightly more skilled as a scorer than LeBron, with a better long-range jumper.  But LeBron's game is more suited for playoffs basketball.  He's much bigger and more physical, which means that the increased contact in the playoffs doesn't phase him.  He also is a better rebounder, and his size/athleticism combines with his PF/Cs to make the Cavs a very imposing, physical frontline...Kobe doesn't contribute to these kinds of mismatches.  Finally, LeBron is better at getting his teammates involved than Kobe, despite the fact that Kobe has better offensive teammates.

When the playoffs started I'd have said Kobe by a whisker, with LeBron gaining fast.  After the playoffs, I'd say that LeBron has overtaken him.

[soap07]

Has anyone looked at the statistics for this debate? Especially for this season - it's not close. Lebron is a better player hands down across the board. What exactly does Kobe do better than Lebron, except being a slightly better defender? Kobe isn't even a better scorer. Lebron averaged more PPG on a better field goal percentage. Kobe and Lebron had equal PPS's of 1.37. James is a better rebounder and passer by far. Lebron averaged twice as many blocks. Of course, Lebron's turnover numbers are higher but so is the A/TO ratio.

Lebron, with substantially less support than Kobe Bryant, took the NBA champions to 7 games without home court advantage. For those who are on Kobe's side with this debate, I am interested in hearing specifically why and if there's any evidence to support the position.

[Roy Hobbs]

Has anyone looked at the statistics for this debate?

Look two posts above yours.

[Pawtucket Pat]

LeBron, and it's not particularly close in my mind. Even when LeBron was struggling during our series with him, I thought to myself, "Boy, I sure hope we can win this thing before he gets going, because it's a matter of when, not if." Even when he was playing poorly you got the feeling that he could take over at any second.

Kobe is a better shooter, but at no point did I ever feel remotely scared of Kobe. The bottom line is LeBron has a very unselfish game naturally. The nature of his game is to find the open man, but he's completely capable of hitting dagger three's and hitting backbreaking 'and 1' drives in the clutch. While he can take over a game with ease, he doesn't have to to be effective. Kobe, on the other hand, for all the accolades he's gotten this season about being unselfish, is a very selfish player by nature. Sure, he's capable of dishing out some pretty dimes here and there, but that's not what he wants to do. He wants to get his, and he does it by jacking up ill-advised shots, or chewing out teammates after they can't catch his terrible passes (most likely because A) they're terrible passes, and B) they're so used to standing around watching him at this point they're just thinking about getting in position for the board).

LeBron is also a better leader. He takes responsibility and seems genuine about taking blame. He was a class act after the Cavs lost that Game 7 and realized he was a part of history just by taking part in it. He doesn't chew his teammates out unless they deserve it. Kobe uses post-game press conferences as PR junkets and couldn't be more phony if he was made of plastic. And we all saw the way he destroyed his teammates' confidence by chewing them out after every little play, regardless of whose fault it was.

No one wants to kill themselves to win for Kobe Bryant. Winning is probably more a relief than anything else. LeBron has the MJ intangibles to go along with a unique all-around game that might end up being the best we've seen before all is said and done. Kobe is just a punk with a beautiful jump shot.

[Sweet17]

I can see how C's fans would hand this to Lebron - and it's tempting the way the two played against us. But..

There are holes in Lebron's game that Kobe simply doesn't have. Lebron is a poor outside shooter and very poor off the ball. You can look at the statistics - but ultimately the statistic you want to judge a great player by is team success. Kobe's team was better then Lebron's and both were basically one man shows.

On the flip side for US Lebron is the far more dangerous player. He OVERMATCHES PP physically. That's a real problem. Paul can bully smaller quicker guys like Kobe. He can outquick bigger slower guys like Odom and Vlad Rad. But against Lebron he is both smaller and slower.. It's a real problem.

It REALLY needs to be the other two guys that step up. The reason why that series was so awful for the C's is that Ray Allen surprisingly WAS NOT ABLE TO STEP UP against Wally. He should have been TORCHING that guy. Instead PP had to play out of his mind to beat Lebron. I mean going for 41 on Lebron in game 7 will likely be Paul Pierce defining career moment.

Ray Allen got a bit of pass after his fantastic finals and decent perfomance against Detroit. But he almost cost us the season vs. Cleveland.

Pete

[DirtyLarry]

I would probably vote for Lebron out of my sheer disdain for Kobe anyway, but after this year's playoffs, I really think it's true.  The biggest factor for me is Lebron's willingness/ability to play under the basket at both ends.  Look, besides when each of them went on little hot streaks shooting long threes, they couldn't make jumpers in our respective series. The Celts' D is just too good (Thanks, Coach Thibideau) The difference is that Lebron realized this and started relentlessly driving to the basket. Kobe never did this. He tried to "shoot through it" and failed miserably. Everybody knows that, like Lebron and all "superstars", he would've gotten the benefit of the doubt from the refs on all contact and shot 15+ ft's every night. He's just not tough enough. Also, I don't remember a single "big" rebound Kobe gathered at either end the whole series. All of the Celtic guards, Allen, Rondo, even House got important rebounds at crucial times and Kobe is significantly bigger than all of them.  Lastly, who started this myth about Kobe's great defense? Pierce destroyed him every time they got matched up. Was his one man zone when he was supposed to be covering Rondo really that impressive?

[the_Bird]

TP for Pawtucket Pat.  If you're a good free agent looking for a place where you can compete for a title, are you likely to sign with Cleveland to play with one of the most unselfish superstars in the league (and a guy who's been classy since Day 1), or out in LA with a prima donna who nobody seems to like and who has a long history of throwing his teammates under the bus?  

Who do you think most players in the league would rather play alongside?  

Kobe does some things that are absolutely spectacular, things that even BronBron can't do - but I'll take Bron's toughness, rebounding, and all-around game, as well as his leadership.  

I mean...  you listen to LeBron after his duel with Pierce, and just the respect that he has for the game.  He's got a tremendous amount of maturity given how young he still is.  Management has surrounded him with some truly TERRIBLE supporting cast members (Wally and Big Ben as your big acqusitions?), yet he hasn't Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ed and moaned about it.  All the talk about LeBron leaving for New York has come from chattering no-nothings like us and the media, not from him.  Who had more of a right to complain about their supporting cast last year, LeBron or Kobe?

Kobe....   everything about him is just fake and calculated.  I mean, you could see EXACTLY how hard his teammates put themselves on the line for him in Game 6.  Would LeBron's teammates have rolled over on him like that?  

[libermaniac]

I'm gonna have to go with Bron.  Bron is so strong he can drive to the bucket ... Kobe has trouble doing that.  I think last year's supporting casts for both teams were more indicative than this year's, and Bron took his team to the finals whereas Kobe had an early exit.

I was so tired of this "best player on the planet" bs!

[soap07]

There are holes in Lebron's game that Kobe simply doesn't have. Lebron is a poor outside shooter and very poor off the ball. You can look at the statistics - but ultimately the statistic you want to judge a great player by is team success. Kobe's team was better then Lebron's and both were basically one man shows.

I don't even know where to begin with this. First, are you implying that Lebron's supporting cast was on par with Kobe's?

Lebron is a poor outside shooter and very poor off the ball.

How often is he off the ball that you can judge this?

[Roy Hobbs]

There are holes in Lebron's game that Kobe simply doesn't have. Lebron is a poor outside shooter and very poor off the ball. You can look at the statistics - but ultimately the statistic you want to judge a great player by is team success. Kobe's team was better then Lebron's and both were basically one man shows.

I don't know if the "Lebron is a poor outside shooter / Kobe is a good outside shooter" holds up as well as people say.  Kobe is about 5% better from the outside than Lebron.  That means he makes one additional three pointer for every 20 attempts.  To me, that's not that significant.  Lebron's eFG% is better, which takes into account the effect of outside shooting.

The only real weakness I see in Lebron's game right now if free throw shooting.  It's unacceptable that he shoots around 70%.  Somebody of his talent should be closer to the 80 - 85% range.

As far as teammates go, I disagree that the supporting casts are equal.  Look at the individual players:

Gasol > Big Z
Odom > Wallace
VladRad < Wally (slightly)
Fisher > Delonte

Lakers bench > Cleveland bench

The only Cleveland player that I think LA doesn't really have a match for is somebody like Joe Smith.  Walton just isn't physical enough or big enough to handle that role, and Turiaf lacks a consistent jumper.

[wdleehi]

Lebron is a more natural in terms of getting his teammates involved.



Kobe has to completely switch mind sets where he is only looking to pass.



Lebron on the other hands has no problem looking to pass and score at the same time. 




As for Lebron being weaker off the ball then Kobe, a big reason for that is Lebron has never had someone on his team that was good at creating shots for other teammates.  Delonte West looks the best set up man James ever had.  It is something Cleveland needs to fix.