Author Topic: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?  (Read 25324 times)

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Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2008, 12:48:38 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Houston would be a terrific place for Hibbert to go if they could find a way of protecting him in the defense. He'd flourish there.

But I don't think we'll ever have to worry about planning on how to guard Hibbert. He's too mechanical to be a threat as a primary scorer in the NBA.

Offline grayjonv

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Glad Ainge was able to parlay the #5 and most of their roster for Ray Allen & Garnett in order to win a title.
Hibbert will probably be the next coming of Benoit Benjamin and that is not much to brag about.

Last year when the Celtics unfortunately got shafted in the ping pong balls and got the #5 I had hoped as a consolation prize get Hibbert to team with Al Jefferson and Perkins.

After seeing Hibbert play well against Oden I hoped
Ainge would have promised to pick him at #5.
Then HIbbert wrongly thought he would do better by going back to school for a year.

Now, I think the Celtics could have a chance to move up in the draft to get Hibbert if they package the #30
with BBD, Powe and/or Pruitt. 

If the Celtics are fortunate to get Hibbert just hope he does not turn into one of the other many other immobile First Round disappointments like  Yinka Dare, Dwayne Schinchious, Duane Causwell, Luther Wright or Micheal Olabekonbi.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2008, 07:09:51 PM »

Offline stanthompsonismyhero

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I'm not sold on Hibbert at all; I don't think he will be more than a backup center in the NBA.  It's quite troublesome that, despite being 7'2", he averaged fewer than seven rebounds per game in each of his four seasons at Georgetown. 
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Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #63 on: June 22, 2008, 07:20:19 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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But I wouldn't say he is a terrible defender per si: in the right system and playing limited minutes along a versatile defensive big man,

Don't mean to nit pick but I think KG would qualify as a versitile defensive big man.  I actually think he would be worth the 30th and either BBD or Powe but I am not sure who would take that deal.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #64 on: June 22, 2008, 07:53:11 PM »

Offline cordobes

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But I wouldn't say he is a terrible defender per si: in the right system and playing limited minutes along a versatile defensive big man,

Don't mean to nit pick but I think KG would qualify as a versitile defensive big man.  I actually think he would be worth the 30th and either BBD or Powe but I am not sure who would take that deal.

You are right about KG, but you missed the "system" part:

Quote
Nevertheless,the reason is basically that he'd be a terrible fit for our kind of defense - we need bigs mobile enough to show up at the perimeter, defend the P'n'R and quick enough to not be trapped with screen/rolls plays.

On the other hand, one can argue he's still 21, we won't be playing this way forever, etc. And maybe he has room to improve in that department (I'd need to watch him more carefully and I frankly haven't bother to watch him much this year, so I'm basing my opinion mostly in 06/07 season).

I didn't say he wasn't worth the 30th. In fact, I think he probably deserves a higher pick. He's very good running that Carril ofense (that's why he'd fit well the Rockets or the Nets). But being such an unusual offensive scheme makes difficult to properly evaluate how he'd in a different environment, where he's going to be asked to do different things (sure it's easier for professional scouts - that's why they make a living evaluating players -, who also can see him every minute he plays and check his background etc).

Bottom line: almost every player who falls to the late 1st round has some kind of flaws in his game. Frequently, the difference between a rookie turning into a solid player or being out of the league after the 1st contract is the environment they land in. Right now, Boston is a great place for a young big to develop - Cliff, winning attitude, professionalism, great teammates...but our current game schemes don't fit Hibbert that well.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #65 on: June 22, 2008, 09:12:44 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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Hibbert is 7'2, you can't teach 7'2 the guy doesn't have do allot to become a valuable piece. If he can board and not be turnover prone, and hit open shots he almost becomes an all star.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #66 on: June 22, 2008, 09:15:33 PM »

Offline PerkinsERA43

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Hibert Has weight issues, conditioning issues, heart issues, and no athleticism. Also, he's peaked. As a sophomore, he averaged 12 pts and 7 rebs. As a junior, 12 pts and 7 rebs..... DO NOT give ANYTHING up to get Roy Hibbert. Waste of a pick.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #67 on: June 22, 2008, 09:20:21 PM »

Offline stanthompsonismyhero

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Hibbert is 7'2, you can't teach 7'2 the guy doesn't have do allot to become a valuable piece. If he can board and not be turnover prone, and hit open shots he almost becomes an all star.
Except he can't rebound.  He's 7'2" and he couldn't even get 7 rebounds a game in college.  Do you know how frustrating that is to watch every game?  You wind up screaming "Box out, for God's sake!  Just box out one time!"  the entire game.  I live in DC and got to see a lot of his games on TV this past season.  For his size, he is not a good inside player, at all.  It is painful to watch Hibbert play, and that was just in college, when I couldn't have cared less if Georgetown won or not.  I don't even like to think about how frustrating it would be to watch him play for the Celtics. 
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Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2008, 09:20:53 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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And in the meantime, there are people advocating a run at Patrick O'Bryant.

Trust me. Hibbert is Bill Russell compared to the laziest big man I've ever seen, O'Bryant.

I wouldn't waste any resources at all trading up for Hibbert, but if he's at 30, you take a serious look at him.

As for O'Bryant, he's the 7-foot version of Gerald Green. Just say no.
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Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2008, 09:44:17 PM »

Offline goCeltics

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Hibbert is 7'2, you can't teach 7'2 the guy doesn't have do allot to become a valuable piece. If he can board and not be turnover prone, and hit open shots he almost becomes an all star.
Except he can't rebound.  He's 7'2" and he couldn't even get 7 rebounds a game in college.  Do you know how frustrating that is to watch every game?  You wind up screaming "Box out, for God's sake!  Just box out one time!"  the entire game.  I live in DC and got to see a lot of his games on TV this past season.  For his size, he is not a good inside player, at all.  It is painful to watch Hibbert play, and that was just in college, when I couldn't have cared less if Georgetown won or not.  I don't even like to think about how frustrating it would be to watch him play for the Celtics. 

hibbert board  numbers are decent if you adjust them per possession , there comparable to everyone’s favorite hussle guy Tyler Hansbourgh.

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=North%20Carolina

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Georgetown

tyler gets 13% of OR, and 20% of DR

hibberts gets 11% of OR and 17% of DR

not as good as you would want but not terrible



Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2008, 09:59:17 PM »

Offline stanthompsonismyhero

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Hibbert is 7'2, you can't teach 7'2 the guy doesn't have do allot to become a valuable piece. If he can board and not be turnover prone, and hit open shots he almost becomes an all star.
Except he can't rebound.  He's 7'2" and he couldn't even get 7 rebounds a game in college.  Do you know how frustrating that is to watch every game?  You wind up screaming "Box out, for God's sake!  Just box out one time!"  the entire game.  I live in DC and got to see a lot of his games on TV this past season.  For his size, he is not a good inside player, at all.  It is painful to watch Hibbert play, and that was just in college, when I couldn't have cared less if Georgetown won or not.  I don't even like to think about how frustrating it would be to watch him play for the Celtics. 

hibbert board  numbers are decent if you adjust them per possession , there comparable to everyone’s favorite hussle guy Tyler Hansbourgh.

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=North%20Carolina

http://kenpom.com/sr.php?team=Georgetown

tyler gets 13% of OR, and 20% of DR

hibberts gets 11% of OR and 17% of DR

not as good as you would want but not terrible




Right, but think about who you're comparing him to.  Hansbrough is listed at 6'9", but is really closer to 6'7" and he's a better rebounder than Hibbert, who is a legitimate 7'2".  There are two reasons why the much shorter Hansbrough is a better rebounder: skill and heart.  Tyler Hansbrough has both and Roy Hibbert has neither. 
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Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2008, 10:01:52 PM »

Offline murphman

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I think Hibbert would be a fine addition to any D League roster. I cant wait to see Hibbert and Jawai battle it out head to head, just like Russell and Wilt, except at a far lower level of play and with fewer fans in attendance

Re: Roy Hibbert - biggest flaw is foul prone otherwise very productive
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2008, 10:18:11 PM »

Offline grayjonv

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If Hibbert can stay on the floor, as evident in the floul prone match up between him and Oden kept them both from playing much, his production has been fine.  Over 40 minutes would equal 20 ppg, 10 rbs and 3 blocks.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/roy-hibbert

Season    GP   MPG   PPG FG%    APG  RPG  BPG SPG
2007-2008 34   26.3  13.4 60.9  1.9  6.4  2.2 0.5
2006-2007 37   26.4  12.9 67.1  1.1  6.9  2.4 0.5
2005-2006 33   24.0  11.6 59.0  1.3  6.9  1.6 0.2
2004-2005 32   15.8   5.1 46.9  0.9  3.5  1.3 0.3

------------------------------------------------------------Career 136   23.3  10.9 60.3  1.3  5.9  1.9  0.4

All this is mute if the Celtics obviously don't pick him and someone else is able to capitalize on his potential.
Just hope its a lessor team that Hibbert does not put over the top.

Re: Roy Hibbert - can the Celtics reach up to low 20's and draft him?
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2008, 10:57:26 PM »

Offline cordobes

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Hibbert is 7'2, you can't teach 7'2 the guy doesn't have do allot to become a valuable piece. If he can board and not be turnover prone, and hit open shots he almost becomes an all star.
Except he can't rebound.  He's 7'2" and he couldn't even get 7 rebounds a game in college.  Do you know how frustrating that is to watch every game?  You wind up screaming "Box out, for God's sake!  Just box out one time!"  the entire game.  I live in DC and got to see a lot of his games on TV this past season.  For his size, he is not a good inside player, at all.  It is painful to watch Hibbert play, and that was just in college, when I couldn't have cared less if Georgetown won or not.  I don't even like to think about how frustrating it would be to watch him play for the Celtics. 

His rebounding is an interesting issue. IMO, it's difficult to predict if Hibbert is going to be a good/average/bad/terrible rebounder in the NBA (he's not quick and athletic enough to be excellent).

- Hibbert only averaged 26 minutes per game, almost the same he averaged in the 2 previous ones. There are 2 reasons for this: the first should raise a yellow flag and it's his stamina. Not a red flag because he's not going to be asked to play for or against running teams in the NBA. The other is nothing to worry about: he falls in foul trouble a lot because of touch fouls that aren't called in the NBA (at least those he gets in the paint, he also fouls a lot reaching outside but that's another story).

- Hibbert averaged 6.3 rpg. That's a scary number. But one has to factor his playing time and the (slow) pace of his team. His rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted are 10.3. Brook Lopes, another legit 7ft, averaged 11. Koufos: 9.9. McGee: 10.7. Not much of a difference (although it's still puzzling that his numbers decreased in his senior season, that's another yellow flag).

- Now, Georgetown runs the "Princeton" offense, a system that relies heavily in passing. It was the same offense Adelman ran in those famous and very enjoyable Sacramento Kings teams in the beginning of the century. This offense demands a big man with great passing abilities, like Hibbert, that is frequently asked to play in the high post. This hurts not only his scoring efficiency - as he rarely gets touches near the basket - but also his chances of grabbing offensive boards. I can understand why you don't consider him a good inside player - centers aren't true inside players in that scheme.

- When it comes to the deff. rebounding, there are two major philosophies: attack the ball or protect the space. Georgetown's coach follows very strictly the later one and that hurts Hibbert rebounding numbers. We have different opinions here, as I think he is quite good doing it (the boxing out). It's a very textbook and mechanical thing - opponent, pivot, blockout - but he executes it flawlessly. Once again, he's doing what he was told to do, what he does in practices. A good way to figure out if Hibbert is being effective in the deff. reb. would be by checking if the Hoyas as a team concede many off. rebs when he's on the pitch.     

I'm not trying to be apologetic by any means and I agree that rebounding is a very serious concern when evaluating Hibbert. Just being able to block out is not very effective in the NBA - you need aggressiveness and intuition to survive under the basket. But I don't believe it's wise to conclude anything definitive about his rebounding just yet. Despite being a senior, he's still 21 (he's 19 months older than a junior like DeAndre Jordan, not 4 years). By all accounts, he's very coachable, intelligent and a very hard-working kid. That can very well be enough to allow him to learn how to follow and "read" a ball and going quick for the rebound instead of just blocking the opponent and wait. This is why NBA teams have development coaches after all.

Re: Roy Hibbert - biggest flaw is foul prone otherwise very productive
« Reply #74 on: June 22, 2008, 11:27:36 PM »

Offline BballTim

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If Hibbert can stay on the floor, as evident in the floul prone match up between him and Oden kept them both from playing much, his production has been fine.  Over 40 minutes would equal 20 ppg, 10 rbs and 3 blocks.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/roy-hibbert

Season    GP   MPG   PPG FG%    APG  RPG  BPG SPG
2007-2008 34   26.3  13.4 60.9  1.9  6.4  2.2 0.5
2006-2007 37   26.4  12.9 67.1  1.1  6.9  2.4 0.5
2005-2006 33   24.0  11.6 59.0  1.3  6.9  1.6 0.2
2004-2005 32   15.8   5.1 46.9  0.9  3.5  1.3 0.3

------------------------------------------------------------Career 136   23.3  10.9 60.3  1.3  5.9  1.9  0.4

All this is mute if the Celtics obviously don't pick him and someone else is able to capitalize on his potential.
Just hope its a lessor team that Hibbert does not put over the top.


  What's more important than his production per 40 is the fact that there's been practically no improvement to his game in the last 2 years.