Kobe is not Michael.

[Roy Hobbs]

Okay, we get it.  You don't like Kobe.  But the fact is, he's the best player on the floor, and there's no reason for us to be bumping our chests out.  All we've done is hold home court.

I'm reacting to the media hype.  I don't see Jordan letting his team lose five Finals games in a row, especially when his team was blessed with equal or better talent than that of its opponent.

Kobe is a great player (and a rotten person).  However, he's not even within reaching distance of M.J., and it truly baffles me that the media wants to anoint him.

What media hype? The only person who has put Kobe even in MJ's class, to my recollection, is Jemele Hill, who is only part of the media, if we are using the word "media" liberally. There has not been a clamoring of sportswriters or talking heads trying to put Kobe in MJ's class.

No offense, but you obviously haven't been watching.

Heck, we had one of our local sportswriters declaring "Kobe Bryant May Be Better Than Michael Jordan".

Leading up to the series, all anybody was talking about was "If Kobe wins this title, is he better than Jordan?" 

Mark Jackson said,

Mark Jackson, an analyst for ABC for the NBA Finals, thinks Bryant is as good as Michael Jordan.

"There's no doubt in my mind," said Jackson. "People may say, 'How could you say that?' But that's not a slight to Michael Jordan. If I'm Michael Jordan, I'm sitting at home watching this guy getting it done and saying, 'Man, that's a compliment.' They are by far the two greatest perimeter players that this league has ever seen."

Do a google news search, you can find plenty of other examples.  Or, look back at some ESPN tapes from a week ago.   Now that Kobe and his team are spitting the bit, the media has backed off a bit.  However, that doesn't mean their idiotic exaggerations should be given a pass.

[Bankshot]

Okay, we get it.  You don't like Kobe.  But the fact is, he's the best player on the floor, and there's no reason for us to be bumping our chests out.  All we've done is hold home court.

Kobe is the best player in the league, but SO FAR Pierce has been the best player on the floor in this series.

[Hondo]

Kobe is a wonderful player, but enough of the "Greatest Player on the planet" and Jordan comparisons.   He isn't even the best player in the league at this point.  That honor goes to Lebron and it isn't even really that close.  I really can't imagine that if Kobe switched places with Lebron that Cleveland would have been in the Eastern Finals and I can easily see the opposite being true. 

Lebron seemed to have no problem getting to the line against the Celtics and defensively he is big enough, strong enough, and athletic enough to give anyone problems. 

This isn't meant to be a knock on Kobe.  He is a great player, just not the greatest at this point.

[soap07]

Kobe is the best player in the league, but SO FAR Pierce has been the best player on the floor in this series.

First to Roy, I suppose you're right. But would it be fair to say that it is a very small minority of sportswriters who make the comparison? Which, in today's day in age, with so many columnists trying to stir up controversy so their piece gets read, is to be expected. There will always be some ridiculous opinion made for attention.

But to what I just italicized, no, Kobe is not the best player in the league. I can't say this enough. Kobe does two things better than Lebron - defense and 3-point shooting. In every other aspect of the game, Lebron far outdoes Kobe.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

kobe dont have pippen cartwright etc etc......

He lost with Shaq in 2004.

How dare you forget about/not mention The Glove and The Mailman on that squad! Both guaransheed HOF's!

[LeeGenius]

Btw, if Kobe was nearly as good as Jordan, he would be defending Pierce during the all game.  

Jordan wouldnt have defender Pierce. Pippen would have. Pippen was the pit bull who guarded the other teams best player. not Jordan. People overrate his one on one defense. He was a great team defender and a good one on one defender but not as good as Pippen or Gary Payton in his prime and a few others.

[jay_jay54]

Okay, we get it.  You don't like Kobe.  But the fact is, he's the best player on the floor, and there's no reason for us to be bumping our chests out.  All we've done is hold home court.

I'm reacting to the media hype.  I don't see Jordan letting his team lose five Finals games in a row, especially when his team was blessed with equal or better talent than that of its opponent.

Kobe is a great player (and a rotten person).  However, he's not even within reaching distance of M.J., and it truly baffles me that the media wants to anoint him.

What media hype? The only person who has put Kobe even in MJ's class, to my recollection, is Jemele Hill, who is only part of the media, if we are using the word "media" liberally. There has not been a clamoring of sportswriters or talking heads trying to put Kobe in MJ's class.

No offense, but you obviously haven't been watching.

Heck, we had one of our local sportswriters declaring "Kobe Bryant May Be Better Than Michael Jordan".

Leading up to the series, all anybody was talking about was "If Kobe wins this title, is he better than Jordan?" 

Mark Jackson said,

Mark Jackson, an analyst for ABC for the NBA Finals, thinks Bryant is as good as Michael Jordan.

"There's no doubt in my mind," said Jackson. "People may say, 'How could you say that?' But that's not a slight to Michael Jordan. If I'm Michael Jordan, I'm sitting at home watching this guy getting it done and saying, 'Man, that's a compliment.' They are by far the two greatest perimeter players that this league has ever seen."

Do a google news search, you can find plenty of other examples.  Or, look back at some ESPN tapes from a week ago.   Now that Kobe and his team are spitting the bit, the media has backed off a bit.  However, that doesn't mean their idiotic exaggerations should be given a pass.

Funny thing,i haven't heard M.Jackson make that bold statement since the beginning of game 1,i wonder why?

[iowa plowboy]

Fundamental difference between Kobe and Michael:

If Michael or Lebron were playing in Game 2 last Sunday, the game would still be going on now.  Michael and the primadonna would be still shooting free throws.  Because literally every time one of them go/went to the basket they "draw" a foul.  I was loving the score Sunday and completely understanding Kobe's frustration at the same time.   Michael was the chosen ONE of his generation and started this whole star call mess.  Kobe is on the bottom of the food chain on the star call menu.  Kobe is one of the few superstars of today who earns most of his points. 
If he got the calls that the thugster or Paul get, he'd be shooting 30 free throws a game.  If he got primadonna calls, he'd shoot 50.

I'm tired of the comparison.  Ray Allen is one of the smaller players guarding Kobe on a nightly basis.  He'd be close to the biggest guarding Jordan in his era.  Jordan was the driven freak of his era.  He had no real peer.   Additionally, he was officiated by a completely different rulebook.  Kobe has none of those benefits.

I'm glad he's frustrated right now.

[Roy Hobbs]

If he got the calls that the thugster or Paul get, he'd be shooting 30 free throws a game. 

Come on, Iowa, that's over-the-top hyperbole.  Kobe only took four shots in the paint last game where a foul wasn't called.  If Kobe hasn't gotten to the line in this series, that's because our guys haven't let him into the paint.

In the regular season, Kobe averaged 9.0 free throws per game.  That's not so far off from league leaders Dwight Howard (10.9) and Lebron (10.3).  I'm not sure which "Paul" you were referring to in your post, but that's many more than Paul Pierce (6.1) and Chris Paul (4.9).

Kobe's career high in free throws attempted per game is 10.2.  M.J. only exceeded that number twice (both at the very beginning of his career when he dominated the ball constantly), and for his career averaged 8.2 FTA per game.  Kobe's career average is 7.7 FTA per game.

[iowa plowboy]

Hyperbole?  Okay.  The Haywood foul on the primadonna is a regular foul on Kobe.  Maybe a flagrant one on other stars.  I don't know what it is about Kobe.  The rape allegations....(money grab, but Kobe's fault for being there)  But he has never gotten the star respect the other stars get.

Kobe is one of the few people I enjoy watching other than the C's.  If they could black out the self-promoting idiot who coaches him, I could actually watch a whole game he's in.  Kobe earns his free throws.  My observation, Roy, of the games I've seen the people you've compared Kobe to in:

About 1 in 5 foul calls the primadonna gets are legit. About the same for Jordan. 
About 4.5 calls Howard gets are legit.  He looks so strong it's almost like trying to figure out when Shaq got fouled.
About half of Paul's (Pierce)
About 4 in 5 of Kobe's

The difference between Jordan's era and Kobe's is firstly, the size and athletism of the players at the two guard position.  Jordan had a defensive size mismatch almost every night.  The only parallel you can draw to Jordan was Earvin Johnson playing the PG position.  Kobe is a similar athletic freak to Jordan.  But he mostly gets matched up against players his own size.  The other difference is what Jordan got away with at the defensive end of the court.  It went way beyond hand-checking.   Kobe gets away with nothing defensively.  Jordan was the only player governed by star rules.  Today, while Kobe appears to be a beneficiary of star calls but to a much lesser degree.  Jordan was the original, and the only player of his era who couldn't travel no matter how many steps he took.  Today, the only difference between the primadonna and the other stars in the NBA is that once in a while the other stars, to their amazement, get a traveling call.  (Did you notice Paul and Rivers laughing at the travel call on him that he gets away with practically every time he has the ball?)
 

[Sweet17]

The difference between Jordan's era and Kobe's is firstly, the size and athletism of the players at the two guard position.  Jordan had a defensive size mismatch almost every night.  The only parallel you can draw to Jordan was Earvin Johnson playing the PG position.  Kobe is a similar athletic freak to Jordan.  But he mostly gets matched up against players his own size.  The other difference is what Jordan got away with at the defensive end of the court.  It went way beyond hand-checking.   Kobe gets away with nothing defensively.  Jordan was the only player governed by star rules.  Today, while Kobe appears to be a beneficiary of star calls but to a much lesser degree.  Jordan was the original, and the only player of his era who couldn't travel no matter how many steps he took.  Today, the only difference between the primadonna and the other stars in the NBA is that once in a while the other stars, to their amazement, get a traveling call.  (Did you notice Paul and Rivers laughing at the travel call on him that he gets away with practically every time he has the ball?)

Jordan had a 'size/athleticism mismatch" every night? There is no difference in "athleticism" from now and the 90's. I could disagree more.  There were PLENTY of other athletic 6'6" guys in the league then. From guys like Reggie Lewis to guys like Scottie Pippen and all the rest. This is just a total fabrication.

Jordan was the only player governed by star rules? Have you never heard of Allen Iverson? It's sad that someone could live through the Jordan era and be so misguided.

Jordan really was the best. It's not fair to hold Kobe up to his standard and say he isn't good enough becuase no one is. NO ONE. I have never seen a more athletic player that's as driven or as talented as Jordan.

I like Kobe more then most on this board. But Jordan was alot better. Then again he was alot better then everyone..

Pete

[Finkelskyhook]

The difference between Jordan's era and Kobe's is firstly, the size and athletism of the players at the two guard position.  Jordan had a defensive size mismatch almost every night.  The only parallel you can draw to Jordan was Earvin Johnson playing the PG position.  Kobe is a similar athletic freak to Jordan.  But he mostly gets matched up against players his own size.  The other difference is what Jordan got away with at the defensive end of the court.  It went way beyond hand-checking.   Kobe gets away with nothing defensively.  Jordan was the only player governed by star rules.  Today, while Kobe appears to be a beneficiary of star calls but to a much lesser degree.  Jordan was the original, and the only player of his era who couldn't travel no matter how many steps he took.  Today, the only difference between the primadonna and the other stars in the NBA is that once in a while the other stars, to their amazement, get a traveling call.  (Did you notice Paul and Rivers laughing at the travel call on him that he gets away with practically every time he has the ball?)

Jordan had a 'size/athleticism mismatch" every night? There is no difference in "athleticism" from now and the 90's. I could disagree more.  There were PLENTY of other athletic 6'6" guys in the league then. From guys like Reggie Lewis to guys like Scottie Pippen and all the rest. This is just a total fabrication.

Jordan was the only player governed by star rules? Have you never heard of Allen Iverson? It's sad that someone could live through the Jordan era and be so misguided.

Jordan really was the best. It's not fair to hold Kobe up to his standard and say he isn't good enough becuase no one is. NO ONE. I have never seen a more athletic player that's as driven or as talented as Jordan.

I like Kobe more then most on this board. But Jordan was alot better. Then again he was alot better then everyone..
Pete

When did Pippen guard Jordan?  In Bulls practices?  Reggie Lewis and Clyde Drexler were two of how many NBA two guards the size of Jordan with close to the athletism?  About 2.  Surely you're not comparing Craig Ehlo and his type of "big guards" to your "all the rest" group of 2s on the court today?  Jordan was guarded by smaller and much smaller two guards and occasionally with bigger  and much slower 3s.  Nothing worked because Jordan was both the best player of his era, the most athletic, and got away with things that no player of his era did.   Bryant and other 2 guards are opposed by players of similar size and athletism pretty much on a nightly basis.  When you're the most athletic and driven 6-6 player in basketball and you're routinely guarded by less athletic 6-3 - 6-4 players,  you're going to be awesome offensively.  Even without the help.  What made Jordan stand out even more was what he got away with in addition to the advantages.  He got away with much more defensively.  He was the NBA for most of his career.  It sure appeared that the officials had a directive from somewhere to keep him on the court no matter what.

Iverson was in "school"    during Jordan's prime.  He and a handfull of "stars" got star calls after Jordan retired the second time.  That escalated when the NBA's popularity went in the toilet post-Jordan. Keeping "stars" on the court appeared to be paramount in NBA management's minds.   Jordan played by pretty much the same rules the Messiah plays by now.  Really none.  He never ever committed a foul or traveled and could be fouled by anybody in the building.  That's what makes the officiating so easy to scandalize and manipulate.  Different standards for different players and times of the games.
That all started with the Jordan rules.

I'll agree with you Pete about Jordan's being driven.  I don't think we ever saw the best of him, though.  There should be no player even in the discussion other than Jordan as the greatest player ever.  A player with his drive, evenly officiated, would have adjusted and become even greater.  Jordan never had to.  No player before, and only one player since has ever been able to play the NBA game by his own rules.  What's sad is we'll be saying the same thing about the Messiah when he retires. 

When, Pete, since you, too watched the games in that era did you ever see Jordan get a traveling call?  Ever?  Kobe, strangely, just got one.  It was awfully funny watching Kobe and Paul's expressions of amazement when they got called.

[guava_wrench]

Hyperbole?...

About 1 in 5 foul calls the primadonna gets are legit. About the same for Jordan. 
About 4.5 calls Howard gets are legit.  He looks so strong it's almost like trying to figure out when Shaq got fouled.
About half of Paul's (Pierce)
About 4 in 5 of Kobe's

How many game tapes did you analyze for these numbers? I would assume you reviewed a rather large number of games to come up with these numbers.

Could you give the total numbers you found in you study,instead of just ratios, so that we can get a better feel for the legitimacy of your claims?

I look forward to reading these numbers. This data would make a great paper.

[iowa plowboy]

Hyperbole?...

About 1 in 5 foul calls the primadonna gets are legit. About the same for Jordan. 
About 4.5 calls Howard gets are legit.  He looks so strong it's almost like trying to figure out when Shaq got fouled.
About half of Paul's (Pierce)
About 4 in 5 of Kobe's

How many game tapes did you analyze for these numbers? I would assume you reviewed a rather large number of games to come up with these numbers.

Could you give the total numbers you found in you study,instead of just ratios, so that we can get a better feel for the legitimacy of your claims?

I look forward to reading these numbers. This data would make a great paper.

Sorry to bring this back, but I haven't had time to answer the question.  I watch all of our games and watch how both Paul and our opponents are officiated.  The only other player I watch with any consistency is Kobe.  No, Guava, I don't sit with a pen and paper and take statistics.  Thus the term about.  But my wife gets irritated with me when I play back and play back when something looks absurd.

-I watch about all of Paul's games.  Let's just say I'm glad he's on our team because I'd hate him for all of the flopping, flailing, and otherwise he does when he goes into the paint.  Paul is a poor man's Reggie Miller in that department. 
-I watch parts of a lot of Kobe's games.  He, IMHO, is officiated as close to the rules as star player in the league short the traveling he gets away with.
-I can't stomach the primadonna's games unless they're playing us.  But since his highlights are played ad nauseum you could take a sample of just those...You know, the 3-4-5 steps without a dribble, the foul calls when there is nobody close to him, the flagrant calls when somebody is.
The primadonna's games are the best case for Donaghy's game fixing theory.  If you watch his games, I'd challenge you to find more than 20% of the calls he gets (and shouldn't get) to be accurate.  I watch his games against us and the highlights.  If you watch the highlights alone, the accuracy goes down.  Watching the officials in the primadonna's games is like watching a parody of a basketball game on Saturday Night Live.
-I watch Howard primarily against us.  I also watched all of his playoff games the last two seasons.  He, like Shaq, is such a physical freak who gets hammered all the time.   I'd hate to have to officiate him.

In short, all of this crap started with Jordan.  That's why you can't compare the two.  The playing field isn't close to being level.  Jordan got away with everything on both ends of the court.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

All you on here who live in New England, you know when the weather forecasters spend an entire week hyping the next big blizzard.  You know, the blizzard that is going to cripple the region, lines in the stores become crazy, the city gets emptied, schools are canceled and hardware stores make a killing? 

Only to have a few flurries and a bit of rain as the storm fails to materialize.  Kobe.


Jordan = 1978