Rondo....please explain

[payjo]

Another favorable factor, as the OP said, is that Fisher isn't counted on to score. This allows Eddie House (who shoots 40% or so from 3) to enter the game without worry of his defensive shortcomings. The lack of a lock down, on ball defender on the Lakers also makes Eddie a favorable match up on offense, so we may not need Rondo in the game when a big shot is necessary. It makes the PG tandem matchup even if not favorable for the Celtics, IMO.

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

For the record, I am a die hard Lakers fan and I come here to get a detail analysis of why all the Boston fans on numerous forums seems to think Rondo is the difference maker in the series. I know that he is an important cog in the wheel that was able to win 66 games this season.  I can understand that, he is the 4th or 5th Beattle in your group.

But, what has Rondo done that the other PGs in the west didn't.  I mean we contain all 3 PGs that we played:

TP(4 time champ, multi all-star) 22.4pts 6.1 ast
DW(all star)  21pts 10ast
AI(finals, scoring champ, multi all-star) 24.5pts, 4.5 ast

Rondo( second year starter) 10 pts 6.6 ast

Now we didn't completely shut them out( you can't really shutout a great player), but they didn't hurt us that bad for us to lose the series.  I believe that we can do the same to Rondo and it's important to know that he is in his second year and have NO experience in the finals whereas Fisher has 3 rings, 4 finals appearances, multi playoff games, etc.

I know that Rondo is faster than Fisher but so was AI and Tony Parker.  Can someone explain why Rondo will the difference maker?  Everyone seems to say, "You haven't seen Rondo yet"..etc
Well, the Lakers have seen the 3 of the 5 best PGs in the league this playoffs.  Can someone point out why Rondo will give us fits and why he is better that AI, TP and Deron.....

Everyone on the Celtics CAN be the difference maker and Rondo is certainly no exception.

That's an amazing quality about the Celtics - you never know who the "X-Factor" is going to be (although I also see the side of the coin in which that could be considered a flaw).

If Kobe plans on guarding Rondo (as has been heavily rumoured) in an attempt to cheat off him a lot to help his teammates then Rondo has to step up and hit the open shot. If he's hitting said open shot then Kobe will have to stay on Rondo and that opens up a lot of 1-on-1 for our big 4 (Perk ).

[plasmaPG]

Good to know that he plays d well.  I do hope he's not scared to take the big shot as I am sure the Lakers will make Rondo beat them from the outside instead of driving and dishing.

We get the "big shot" argument. We heard it with Cleveland, we heard it with DEEEtroit, and we're hearing it now. He hit a DAGGER from 15 in Game 6 on the conference finals, and had back to back three's which probably saved the Cavs series. Furthermore, if the Pistons and Cavs couldn't "force Rondo to beat them" then I don't believe the Lakers inferior (but underated!!!!) defense will be able to succeed in this either. Especially given their weak interior defense.

Every Boston playoff game that I watch and I watch most of them, the announcers and commentators seem to think that the way to limit Rondo is to make him an outside shooter.  He isn't deadly from 3 and his shot is shaky.  I believe that is how Phil will guard Rondo.

[Big Ticket]

And not to nitpick but Tony Parker's only got 3 rings. 

And to take the nitpicking a step further... D-Will was not an all star this year.  Should've said 2nd Team All NBA instead.

[plasmaPG]

Another favorable factor, as the OP said, is that Fisher isn't counted on to score. This allows Eddie House (who shoots 40% or so from 3) to enter the game without worry of his defensive shortcomings. The lack of a lock down, on ball defender on the Lakers also makes Eddie a favorable match up on offense, so we may not need Rondo in the game when a big shot is necessary. It makes the PG tandem matchup even if not favorable for the Celtics, IMO.

Fish's biggest asset is the 3 point shot, when that is falling, the whole game changes.  When he makes his 3-4  treys a game, it opens up the entire offense.  He's reliable for maybe 6-10 pts a game and he plays really good on the ball defense. 

[payjo]

Every Boston playoff game that I watch and I watch most of them, the announcers and commentators seem to think that the way to limit Rondo is to make him an outside shooter.  He isn't deadly from 3 and his shot is shaky.  I believe that is how Phil will guard Rondo.
[/quote]

It's absolutely the right thing to do. The question is, has anyone *done* it yet? And if not, what is Phil going to do that better defensive teams could not do? The kid just has a knack for getting to the hoop and knocking down shots that matter. It's just a feel that you get from watching a player the whole season, it's the same unexplainable reason you see Derek Fischer the way you do. We don't get it, we think he's Mike Bibby 2.0. Just have to see how it shakes out. I'm jut glad Lock Down Lindsay Hunter is gone so we can see Eddie jack threes.

[BballTim]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

I believe his dribble penetration will be the key, if he can dribble penetrate and pass out to allen or pierce, it will be deadly.  But the lakers can counteract that by making him a jump shooter as he has shown he can not consistently make the 15-20 footer.

  He's sometimes reluctant to shoot, but he shoots fairly well. According to nba.com hotspots, he's like 23-48 on his midrange jumpers.

[seccom]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

I believe his dribble penetration will be the key, if he can dribble penetrate and pass out to allen or pierce, it will be deadly.  But the lakers can counteract that by making him a jump shooter as he has shown he can not consistently make the 15-20 footer.

  He's sometimes reluctant to shoot, but he shoots fairly well. According to nba.com hotspots, he's like 23-48 on his midrange jumpers.

The actual answer for the playoff is

FG: .414% 3FG: .294 FT% .756.

Both Pierce and Allen are better shooter than him. Of course the other teams want him to take the outside.

As a Lakers fan, I found those number pretty poor when he is the 4th and 5th options with your teams. Unlike Pierce and Allen, there is always someone with a hand up on their face, most of Rondo's shot are wide open shot.

If you look at Fisher's number in this playoff:

FG: .471% 3FG: .559 FT% .846

Similar to Rondo, Fisher is the 4th or 5th options, and he is shooting wide open shot all days, and making them.

If the Lakers were beaten by Rondo's wide open jumpshot, I think the fans will accepted that this is not their year.

On the hand, if the Lakers were beaten by Pierce's wide open jumpshot, everyone will want the head of Lakers coaching staff.

[tanner]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

Rondo's more apt to disrupting the opposing team's offense than locking down people he's guarding.  He can bring good full-court pressure on your PGs and force few more seconds off your shot clock.  He can be an effective double on post players (harder in this case with Fisher shooting 50% beyond the arc).  He gets a few steals here and there.  He's also a very good rebounder for a PG--grabbed 8 boards in Game 7 against Cleveland, a top rebounding team.

[noblegreen]

i think its funny a laker fan is coming into here telling us that derek fisher is better than rondo so the lakers will win the series by throwing out their shooting percents but lacks to just look at the numbers


          PTS      ASTS    TO     AST*   TO*   RBS    Stls     BLKS   PER*
Rondo     10.5     6.6     1.90   33.2   9.5   4.2     1.80     .25   15.68
Fisher    10.0     2.2     .73    20     6.7   2.5     2.27     .20   14.17

* John Hollingers assist ratio
* John Hollingers turnover ratio
* John Hollingers Player Efficiency Rating


so where are your stats that say fisher is better?

[BballTim]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

I believe his dribble penetration will be the key, if he can dribble penetrate and pass out to allen or pierce, it will be deadly.  But the lakers can counteract that by making him a jump shooter as he has shown he can not consistently make the 15-20 footer.

  He's sometimes reluctant to shoot, but he shoots fairly well. According to nba.com hotspots, he's like 23-48 on his midrange jumpers.

The actual answer for the playoff is

FG: .414% 3FG: .294 FT% .756.

  The actual answer is what I said it was. plasmaPG said that Rondo can't make the 15-20 foot jumper. For the playoffs, he's 23-48 on his midrange jumpers. He's had worse luck driving in against the other team's bigs. He's sometimes reluctant to take the outside shot, but he's hit them at a good clip in the playoffs.

  But to compare Rondo to Fisher, you have to consider that Rondo gets more assists, rebounds and steals and has a better assist/turnover ratio. He also plays better defense than Fisher.

[seccom]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

I believe his dribble penetration will be the key, if he can dribble penetrate and pass out to allen or pierce, it will be deadly.  But the lakers can counteract that by making him a jump shooter as he has shown he can not consistently make the 15-20 footer.

  He's sometimes reluctant to shoot, but he shoots fairly well. According to nba.com hotspots, he's like 23-48 on his midrange jumpers.

The actual answer for the playoff is

FG: .414% 3FG: .294 FT% .756.

  The actual answer is what I said it was. plasmaPG said that Rondo can't make the 15-20 foot jumper. For the playoffs, he's 23-48 on his midrange jumpers. He's had worse luck driving in against the other team's bigs. He's sometimes reluctant to take the outside shot, but he's hit them at a good clip in the playoffs.

  But to compare Rondo to Fisher, you have to consider that Rondo gets more assists, rebounds and steals and has a better assist/turnover ratio. He also plays better defense than Fisher.

Actually I choose not to the other stat because I am not compare Rondo to Fisher as a PG, but I compare him to Rondo as the 4th options. I also answer your stat regarding his shooting.

Even if your stat is correct, he made 23-48 on his midrange jumpers. It is not the same as Pierce's midrange jumper with someone in his face.

Majority of them are wide open look, but he still cannot make 50% of his midrange jumpers.

Like I said, if I were the Lakers, I would let Rondo beat me than Pierce. If Pierce get the same look as Rondo, he will not make 23-48. He will kill the other team if Pierce has the same look as Rondo.

[BASSTHUMPER]

off stat~

fisher is a `healthy` vet~ya known he been there and blah blah

rondo new to this and still on simalac~

i hope doc dont feel that is the key match up

that goes to kev and gasoline.

[seccom]

i think its funny a laker fan is coming into here telling us that derek fisher is better than rondo so the lakers will win the series by throwing out their shooting percents but lacks to just look at the numbers


          PTS      ASTS    TO     AST*   TO*   RBS    Stls     BLKS   PER*
Rondo     10.5     6.6     1.90   33.2   9.5   4.2     1.80     .25   15.68
Fisher    10.0     2.2     .73    20     6.7   2.5     2.27     .20   14.17

* John Hollingers assist ratio
* John Hollingers turnover ratio
* John Hollingers Player Efficiency Rating


so where are your stats that say fisher is better?

Nowhere, because I did not say Fisher is a overall better player. However, Fisher is definitely a better shooter.

John Hollingers' stat is interesting. But you have to remember, he also pick the Lakers to beat the Celtics in the final.

[tanner]

Well for one thing he is a much superior defender to all 3 of those PG's. People seem to forget that there is more to the game then just offense. He was probably the best defensive PG in the playoffs this year. He doesn't have to put up the numbers that those other 3pg's put up against you, because like you mentioned he is the 4th option on offense, but his defensive ability is what I think many Laker fans are overlooking.

Sure, he's a great defender but he will be defending Fisher or Farmar who doesn't score much anyways.  It's not like he will be on Kobe or something.

I believe his dribble penetration will be the key, if he can dribble penetrate and pass out to allen or pierce, it will be deadly.  But the lakers can counteract that by making him a jump shooter as he has shown he can not consistently make the 15-20 footer.

  He's sometimes reluctant to shoot, but he shoots fairly well. According to nba.com hotspots, he's like 23-48 on his midrange jumpers.

The actual answer for the playoff is

FG: .414% 3FG: .294 FT% .756.

  The actual answer is what I said it was. plasmaPG said that Rondo can't make the 15-20 foot jumper. For the playoffs, he's 23-48 on his midrange jumpers. He's had worse luck driving in against the other team's bigs. He's sometimes reluctant to take the outside shot, but he's hit them at a good clip in the playoffs.

  But to compare Rondo to Fisher, you have to consider that Rondo gets more assists, rebounds and steals and has a better assist/turnover ratio. He also plays better defense than Fisher.

Actually I choose not to the other stat because I am not compare Rondo to Fisher as a PG, but I compare him to Rondo as the 4th options. I also answer your stat regarding his shooting.

Even if your stat is correct, he made 23-48 on his midrange jumpers. It is not the same as Pierce's midrange jumper with someone in his face.

Majority of them are wide open look, but he still cannot make 50% of his midrange jumpers.

Like I said, if I were the Lakers, I would let Rondo beat me than Pierce. If Pierce get the same look as Rondo, he will not make 23-48. He will kill the other team if Pierce has the same look as Rondo.

Each provides different value to their teams.  Rondo has to make plays, not jumpshots.  Fisher's primary value is spacing, meaning he has to make shots to be effective. 

3 against 5? That's been the defensive gameplan all along against the Celtics.  Be careful what you wish for though.  Perk killed the Pistons in the last series.  And this may be Rondo's series.  No Billups to push him around.  No Josh Smith to swat his shots to the 3rd row.  No Cavs tight interior D. 

It's not really about Rondo just taking jumpshots.  The Lakers have to make him want to take only jumpshots.