Author Topic: Celtics Weakness?  (Read 6306 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2008, 03:11:21 AM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18713
  • Tommy Points: 1818
Quote
Keeping it to five, I'd have to say lastly also, that it's the coaching. I think the Detroit series was a step in the right decision ... Doc made some great adjustments and called some very smart offensive plays, especially halftime changes. But unfortunately, there were still times when it was painfully obvious that the wrong players were on the floor, and the match-ups weren't right. Eddie House especially, should be the first one off the bench for Rage, not Sam, and Leon should be used far more than he has been. I also think that the "two-big" or "three-big" line-up should be used more for the subs, especially with LA, and that Sam should be used more as a two-guard, and play with Rondo, not in place of him.

You're a bit off here. Eddie House shouldn't have played in the Pistons' series. Doc gave him a try early on and it was painfully obvious that he wouldn't do much good in there. Heavy dosage of Rondo is what we'll see from now on, and if any of the backups is playing more minutes it's simply because Rondo for some reason or another is not getting it done, even so Doc will play him a lot.  Sam was quite decent against Detroit, aside losing the ball to Hunter. He did a ton of good without scoring, something that has been quite rare. His ball movement has improved quite a bit since he began the year with us. He still gets a bit carried away now and then, but he's doing it even less... especially since Pierce called him out and told him to "run the play".

There's no reason for this guy to be playing SG, no reason. He either plays PG or sits down. The SG spot should be played by either Ray, Pierce, or Posey... no need to add Cassell to the mix.

With that said, I'd like to see some House against the Lakers to see how he responds, but I still feel that Cassell deserves a shot before him and see if he can rise to the occassion. I like his midrange game, and it has been buggling my mind how he has been missing the shots he has been missing.

Won't even comment on Powe, I'm tired of the subject. Heck, weren't you the one calling for Baby the other day while Powe was in the game?

Totally disagree ... Sam was next to useless in the Detroit series, and he should either be used at 2-guard, (where he looked the most effective this season), or used for "garbage" time. He completely destroys the tempo and energy when he comes into the game, and the only time he's remotely effective is when his shot is going down, which is about 1 in 5 games, at the most.

Sam was a horrible move, and every game proves it more. I honestly hope he CAN contribute against the Lakers, but I seriously doubt it. This team is successful when it runs, and Eddie is far more adaptive to the up-tempo game, and much more of a three-point threat, which loosens up the interior for KG and Pierce. Sam has nothing but an inconsistent shot, and a running mouth.

He did no such thing against Detroit. He did a great job after his rust came off in game 3, when we needed him and the bench the most. In game 4 he out played Rondo for the most part... Rondo was -14, and Cassell was 0 in the +/-, and seeing how poorly just about everyone played in that game, I'd say that Cassell was a positive in that game (in fact he was the only one not in the negative +/- for that game). Game 5, played little, clearly Doc didn't like what Hunter did to him and stuck with Rondo... great move by Doc. Game 6, despite his turnovers, I thought he had a pretty good first half, and a bad second half... I liked how he moved the ball early on in the game, but he at the least wasn't disastrous as he had been in many games during the playoffs. And I haven't even mentioned how Cassell played against Stuckey. For some odd reason he was the best on that defended him, for whatever it's worth. And the way Billups was playing that game 6 and murdering Rondo, no way you throw House in there... that'd be suicide.

House couldn't even get us in our offense and we started to rely on Paul Pierce as pretty much our PG when he played. We can't have that... we can't give Pierce that type of responsibility constantly throughout a series.  You play Cassell (against Detroit), see what he gives you, and you give him a short leash. Doc did that, and it worked wonders.

Now the Lakers are a different monster, and I really don't care who gets the shot first... I'd give it to Cassell just to see what he can give you early in the series. If you feel different, that's fine becuase I wouldn't mind House against the Lakers either. But against Detroit, House really had no business there.

To tell you the truth, I could care less about who is our back-up PG. I hope that Rondo plays well and Doc gives him big minutes, if we have that the back-up PG situation should be really insignificant. I'd give everyone a short leash (from the back-ups) and hope Doc doesn't let someone underperforming through long periods of times as he did in the first two series.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2008, 03:35:48 AM by BudweiserCeltic »

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2008, 03:19:41 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21238
  • Tommy Points: 2016
First of all.  Sam Cassell is crap.  I'm convinced Larry Bird could step  out there right now and make more of an impact.  Maybe even 95 year old Bill Russell.   Sam's done.  What's he now?.. 3 for his last 40?  Can't play defense... screws up the offense, forces a shot on every other possession...  total garbage.

And the only weakness the Celtics have is that they are a mentally soft team at times.   It's a big weakness.   If they can stay focused, determined and do what worked during the regular season they could actually win this series.  The good news is that they have snapped out of it in the games when they desperately needed wins.  And I'm happy that we are massive underdogs in this series.  Maybe it will give them the appropriate motivation to keep their heads on straight.

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2008, 03:30:11 AM »

Offline Discoflux

  • Sam Hauser
  • Posts: 165
  • Tommy Points: 22
As a Laker fan, every minute Sam Cassell is in the game will make me  ;D

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2008, 03:37:03 AM »

Offline Scintan

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3066
  • Tommy Points: 656
Celtics main weaknesses:

Shooting at point guard
Backup point guard
Offense from the center position and in the low blocks generally
Defending players who are truly 7'+
A willingness to get passive down the stretch on the part of some players
head coach


When people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other.

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2008, 03:56:38 AM »

Offline AmericanFear

  • Drew Peterson
  • Posts: 2
  • Tommy Points: 0

Celtics main weaknesses:

Shooting at point guard (i agree there)
Backup point guard (eddie house is a great backup, his only downside being the celtics biggest weakness: age)
Offense from the center position and in the low blocks generally (agreed, perkins isnt great on offense but it looks like hes getting better)
Defending players who are truly 7'+ (yeah but not the most important thing right now)
A willingness to get passive down the stretch on the part of some players
head coach(i dont really get the whole anti-doc attitude. we're in the finals arent we? although i guess itd be hard not to be with our lineup)
age<-- that is the biggest one. tho i guess we still have the big 3 for a couple more years

Hopefully the draft will bring us an amazing 7'+ center  :P


Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2008, 04:35:34 AM »

Offline Bahku

  • CB HOF Editor
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19771
  • Tommy Points: 3632
  • Oe ma krr pamtseotu
Just mainly reiterating what Roy already nailed down, but consistency is definitely the C's biggest weakness, and I think it's mainly from the lack of history/playing time with each other. The more games we play, obviously, the better it gets, but we're still a ways from being consistent, at least on a consistent basis, that is. (Sorry) This team is so up-and-down, (or hot-and-cold), and can be playing huge on both ends for ten minutes, then have these complete lapses and totally let down ... it's extremely frustrating to watch.

The next biggest weakness I see is shot selection, or I should say play selection, to be more accurate. This team seems to have a propensity to be a bit lazy, and not continue to attack the basket, even when it's proving to be successful, (which is most of the time). Everybody loves to hit the "Big Shot" and is plagued by the temptation to do so, but we fall back on it far too often, and choose to take a three, even when there's a clear lane to the basket ... it's truly baffling at times.

Following on the list for me would be foul-shooting. This drives me completely nuts, and there's really no good excuse for it. Free-throws are Basketball 101, and for the best team in the NBA to miss so many foul-shots, especially in the playoffs, when every point is crucial, is just absurd to me. Honestly, if I were Doc, I'd spend way more time and energy getting these guys to tighten up from the stripe. Maybe he does already, but it sure as heck isn't enough. These guys should be a bit embarassed about it, and take it upon themselves to do much better. They could have had a much easier time this season, if they'd just hit more of their free-throws.

Fourth in line, I feel, is foul trouble. There have been many games this year, including the post-season, where two or three of the starters, (usually KG, Perk, or Rondo), have been sitting on the bench with two fouls by the middle of the first period. This is really unacceptable, and while the poor officiating has had much to do with it, we should be taking that into consideration, and minimizing the damage as much as possible. There have been so many games where we came out and got off to a great start, then KG and Perk got two quick fouls, and the wind was totally gone from our sails. It kills the momentum, and changes the face of the game.

Keeping it to five, I'd have to say lastly also, that it's the coaching. I think the Detroit series was a step in the right decision ... Doc made some great adjustments and called some very smart offensive plays, especially halftime changes. But unfortunately, there were still times when it was painfully obvious that the wrong players were on the floor, and the match-ups weren't right. Eddie House especially, should be the first one off the bench for Rage, not Sam, and Leon should be used far more than he has been. I also think that the "two-big" or "three-big" line-up should be used more for the subs, especially with LA, and that Sam should be used more as a two-guard, and play with Rondo, not in place of him.

Have to add one more, as it's been on my mind: Lack of aggressiveness. There seems to be, as a result of the very positive "team" concept, (indirectly), a reluctance by the three superstars to step-up and take over a game. Paul finally did it at a very important Detroit game, and Ray as well in another one, but we need this to happen more often. I honestly don't think the "We Not Me" thing suffers at all, on the contrary, I think even the closest of units need a leader, and becomes stronger by following the lead of the one being aggressive, and by gaining confidence in knowing that that person is the foundation. I'd like to see more of the Big Three scoring big points, especially Paul and KG, as their match-ups are key against the Lakers.
2010 PAPOUG, 2012 & 2017 PAPTYG CHAMP, HD BOT

* BAHKU MUSIC *

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2008, 05:41:47 AM »

Offline thedawg

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 213
  • Tommy Points: 11
1) Consistency, particularly from Rondo and Perk.  Really, the whole team outside of KG has struggled a bit with this.

2)  Too many jump shots / lack of a post game.  Someone -- Pierce? -- needs to consistently attack the hoop.  When that happens, we win.

3) Focus on the road.  It looks like we've conquered this one, finally

4) Lack of production from our bench, outside of Posey and occasionally P.J. Brown.  Cassell has been horrible, Baby is inconsistent, and Powe and House don't get playing time.

5) Coaching.  It's at the bottom of the list, but Doc's performance in a handful of games this postseason has been abysmal.  He's improving, though, and has coached very well in most of our recent games.

I think the biggest inconsistency of it all is the coaching.  You cannot simply stop using the squad you have simply because you are in the playoffs.  House and T.Allen are two players that are important squad members and weren´t seen against Cleveland just because the coach panicked.  We have to remember how we ended as the #1 team in the regular season and why...teamwork!

The PG position is our weakness indeed but Rajon Rondo has been exceptional in the playoffs in my opinion.  He attacks the basket and dishes out assists like he´s getting paid for it (I think he is!), while Sam Cassell who is his backup has definitely lost it and should quit playing basketball after this season in my humble opinion.  I think Derek Fisher will have a tough time with Rondo in the series because he´s so quick and Rondo  is getting only getting better.

In my opinion, Perkins, Tony Allen and Eddie House will become very important members of this team in the Finals. Why?  Perkins in order to help Garnett with Gasol/Odom and get rebounds plus points once in a while, Tony Allen for helping out on Kobe Bryant and Eddie House to fire up the team spirit when needed and to give Rondo and R. Allen some help out there.   
In Danny Ainge I Trust!

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2008, 12:17:35 PM »

Offline jaketwice

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1384
  • Tommy Points: 102
Size. They have a cadre of guys near 7' to throw fouls at Perkins, KG and PJ Brown.

Also, Rivers/Thibodeau just does not have the experience to out-coach BCT (Big Chief Triangle).

Hopefully we can get a big pow off the bench from Powe against Pau!

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2008, 12:22:50 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 42583
  • Tommy Points: 2756
  • You ain't the boss of the freakin' bedclothes.
I feel like the biggest Celtic weakness will be the 3 games in LA after game 2. I think beyond the fact that we seem to have trouble with top talent perimeter guys (Lebron, Rip, Joe Johnson), the biggest thing going against us is that we won't have a game 5 to steady the ship if the LA trip doesnt go well. If this series holds serve we'll have 2 straight elimination games in Boston, which while thats ideal if we have to face an elimination game, I'd rather not have 2 straight.

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2008, 12:25:02 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

  • In The Rafters
  • The Natural
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33333
  • Tommy Points: 6430
  • Doc could learn a thing or two from Norman Dale
Size. They have a cadre of guys near 7' to throw fouls at Perkins, KG and PJ Brown.

Most of those seven-footers don't play, though.  I'm not that scared of Gasol / Odom / VladRad / Turiaf.  Odom is the only above-average rebounder they have on their team.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: Celtics Weakness?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2008, 12:35:49 PM »

Offline spelz

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 316
  • Tommy Points: 13
I fear the Lakers backcourt may be too much for ours, but I do like House as a back-up in this series.  He was getting used by Lindsay Hunter in Detroit, but should be much better in this series.  He will not have to dribble as much and we need his shooting.