Author Topic: Time to dust off Cassell  (Read 7458 times)

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Time to dust off Cassell
« on: May 23, 2008, 11:07:13 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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I'm sure this will be a lightening rod topic but really, I thought about posting it before the series even began.  Detroit completely exposed House for what he is not (a PG) in the regular season and I figured they would put extra pressure in the post season.  Looks like that is what is happening.  House can barely even get the ball over half court, forget about trying to initiate any offense.  And no, I don't think we should be content to have someone else bring up the ball because that causes two problems.  We have a scorer doing something HE doesn't do well (e.g., Pierce) AND, we take away some of this ablity to score.

Sit House and play Cassell.  We'll have to live with the defensive consequences.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2008, 11:17:19 AM »

Offline MattG12

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I've been against Cassell from the beginning of the playoffs because he's a straight up ball hog. However I do agree it is time to play him again. People keep saying, "he's in a shooting slump" well he needs to shoot to get out of that slump. He could have a good bounce back game like Ray Allen had last night, and having the two of them shooting well along with Pierce and Garnett on the floor, with maybe PJ. The Detroit defense wouldn't know what to do. I still like Eddie House a lot more than Cassell but I don't like the way he matches up against the Pistons.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2008, 11:19:43 AM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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Two thoughts on this -

#1 - The reason we lost last night was not offense, it was defense. House plays better defense than Cassell. Bad move to switch.

#2 - We were very effective playing the high pick and roll with PP handling the ball at the top in the last few games but somehow didn't do it last night. I have no issues at all with PP bringing the ball up when House is in there if they will run this set. In fact, I have no problem with doing it with Rondo in there.

Sam brings us absolutely nothing. If Rondo is struggling with Hamiltons tight D, then Sam sure isn't going to fare any better.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2008, 11:31:00 AM »

Offline MattG12

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If Rondo is struggling with Hamiltons tight D, then Sam sure isn't going to fare any better.

Did anyone else notice the great move Rip put on Allen to give him his fifth foul? (Even if some of the other fouls called on him were ridiculous) We need people to get Hamilton to bite on plays like that and get him in foul trouble. He would definitely go for those blocks too because he plays some of the tightest D i've ever seen. Without Hamilton the Pistons lose so much defensive pressure, they also lose a great offensive scorer. If we get two quick fouls on him then he gets taken out of the game, and we can finish the first half with a run while he's out. Then we can build up a lead in their building and take the crowd out of it and it would put us in a great position to take game 3, unless the Pistons have a Celtics vs. Nets like comeback. Rip is definitely their most important player especially with Chauncey not 100% and Rasheed not shooting very well as of late.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2008, 11:34:17 AM »

Offline droopdog7

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Two thoughts on this -

#1 - The reason we lost last night was not offense, it was defense. House plays better defense than Cassell. Bad move to switch.

#2 - We were very effective playing the high pick and roll with PP handling the ball at the top in the last few games but somehow didn't do it last night. I have no issues at all with PP bringing the ball up when House is in there if they will run this set. In fact, I have no problem with doing it with Rondo in there.

Sam brings us absolutely nothing. If Rondo is struggling with Hamiltons tight D, then Sam sure isn't going to fare any better.
The main reason we lost is that Detroit scored more points than we did.  I'm not one of those that generates statistics on what each player contributes when they are on the floor, but it looks fairly obvious to me that we are majorly struggling when House tries to play PG.  The fact he, he has NO chance against Det.  None at all.  With Cassell, we'd at least be able to bring the ball up the court and initiate an offense when Rondo is sitting.  I also think that Cassell is a much better fit with our second unit, which is offensively challened anyway. 

Regarding Hamilton's tight D, I don't suspect Cassell would have much trouble with it really.  He is a professional PG and can pretty much bring the ball up and perform his role against anybody.  It isn't about quickness, it is about having the skill to do what you do.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2008, 11:45:31 AM »

Offline jay_jay54

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Two thoughts on this -

#1 - The reason we lost last night was not offense, it was defense. House plays better defense than Cassell. Bad move to switch.

#2 - We were very effective playing the high pick and roll with PP handling the ball at the top in the last few games but somehow didn't do it last night. I have no issues at all with PP bringing the ball up when House is in there if they will run this set. In fact, I have no problem with doing it with Rondo in there.

Sam brings us absolutely nothing. If Rondo is struggling with Hamiltons tight D, then Sam sure isn't going to fare any better.
Absolutely correct!...i thought if we were having a matchup problem with Billups/Rondo,then maybe Cassell,but so far,Billups hasn't been the main focus or problem.Our defense was bad last night,not the offense being the problem.Although Rondo  should have taken a few more of those shots in the paint,but it is over and done now.But at the moment House seems ok. 

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2008, 11:46:37 AM »

Offline BrickJames

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I'm sure this will be a lightening rod topic but really, I thought about posting it before the series even began.  Detroit completely exposed House for what he is not (a PG) in the regular season and I figured they would put extra pressure in the post season.  Looks like that is what is happening.  House can barely even get the ball over half court, forget about trying to initiate any offense.  And no, I don't think we should be content to have someone else bring up the ball because that causes two problems.  We have a scorer doing something HE doesn't do well (e.g., Pierce) AND, we take away some of this ablity to score.

Sit House and play Cassell.  We'll have to live with the defensive consequences.

I did say this, and you are right, it was a lightning rod.
I like your statement in a later post, that without looking at statistics, looking at the team with Homeless in the game, it seems evident that we are struggling.  I agree with this assessment and this is why I have been an adamant supporter and proponent of Mr. Cassell.

Ultimately, we all want the Celtics to win - some people, including me, know that Cassell will only help in this regard.
God bless and good night!


Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2008, 11:49:26 AM »

Offline BrickJames

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I've been against Cassell from the beginning of the playoffs because he's a straight up ball hog. However I do agree it is time to play him again. People keep saying, "he's in a shooting slump" well he needs to shoot to get out of that slump. He could have a good bounce back game like Ray Allen had last night, and having the two of them shooting well along with Pierce and Garnett on the floor, with maybe PJ. The Detroit defense wouldn't know what to do. I still like Eddie House a lot more than Cassell but I don't like the way he matches up against the Pistons.

It takes a lot to admit that you are not a Cassell fan and are a House fan, yet still see the clear and present need to play Sam and not Eddie.  Hats off to you.
God bless and good night!


Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2008, 11:53:42 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Two thoughts on this -

#1 - The reason we lost last night was not offense, it was defense. House plays better defense than Cassell. Bad move to switch.

#2 - We were very effective playing the high pick and roll with PP handling the ball at the top in the last few games but somehow didn't do it last night. I have no issues at all with PP bringing the ball up when House is in there if they will run this set. In fact, I have no problem with doing it with Rondo in there.

I agree with this.  I guess the counter-argument is that Cassell is the only guy off our bench who can create his own offense, but I'd rather stick with House.

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Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2008, 11:55:52 AM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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I'm sure this will be a lightening rod topic but really, I thought about posting it before the series even began.  Detroit completely exposed House for what he is not (a PG) in the regular season and I figured they would put extra pressure in the post season.  Looks like that is what is happening.  House can barely even get the ball over half court, forget about trying to initiate any offense.  And no, I don't think we should be content to have someone else bring up the ball because that causes two problems.  We have a scorer doing something HE doesn't do well (e.g., Pierce) AND, we take away some of this ablity to score.

Sit House and play Cassell.  We'll have to live with the defensive consequences.

I did say this, and you are right, it was a lightning rod.
I like your statement in a later post, that without looking at statistics, looking at the team with Homeless in the game, it seems evident that we are struggling.  I agree with this assessment and this is why I have been an adamant supporter and proponent of Mr. Cassell.

Ultimately, we all want the Celtics to win - some people, including me, know that Cassell will only help in this regard.

Kind of interesting how only your view of the situation is the "accurate" one. The rest of us are just stupid fans who yes want to win, but are too ignorant to realize that Sam playing is 100% going to be a positive.

You might have an easier time convincing people of your view if you back it up with some facts or at least examples, and refrain from sounding like everyone else just isn't smart enough to realize what needs to be done.

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2008, 12:04:01 PM »

Offline BballTim

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I'm sure this will be a lightening rod topic but really, I thought about posting it before the series even began.  Detroit completely exposed House for what he is not (a PG) in the regular season and I figured they would put extra pressure in the post season.  Looks like that is what is happening.  House can barely even get the ball over half court, forget about trying to initiate any offense.  And no, I don't think we should be content to have someone else bring up the ball because that causes two problems.  We have a scorer doing something HE doesn't do well (e.g., Pierce) AND, we take away some of this ablity to score.

Sit House and play Cassell.  We'll have to live with the defensive consequences.

  Why do you think that the Pistons won't be able to expose Cassell for all of his weaknesses?

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 12:11:05 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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I'm sure this will be a lightening rod topic but really, I thought about posting it before the series even began.  Detroit completely exposed House for what he is not (a PG) in the regular season and I figured they would put extra pressure in the post season.  Looks like that is what is happening.  House can barely even get the ball over half court, forget about trying to initiate any offense.  And no, I don't think we should be content to have someone else bring up the ball because that causes two problems.  We have a scorer doing something HE doesn't do well (e.g., Pierce) AND, we take away some of this ablity to score.

Sit House and play Cassell.  We'll have to live with the defensive consequences.

I did say this, and you are right, it was a lightning rod.
I like your statement in a later post, that without looking at statistics, looking at the team with Homeless in the game, it seems evident that we are struggling.  I agree with this assessment and this is why I have been an adamant supporter and proponent of Mr. Cassell.

Ultimately, we all want the Celtics to win - some people, including me, know that Cassell will only help in this regard.

Kind of interesting how only your view of the situation is the "accurate" one. The rest of us are just stupid fans who yes want to win, but are too ignorant to realize that Sam playing is 100% going to be a positive.

You might have an easier time convincing people of your view if you back it up with some facts or at least examples, and refrain from sounding like everyone else just isn't smart enough to realize what needs to be done.


Sorry, but I've stopped wasting my energy - I've found that when I do back up my points with stats and/or convincing arguments, I am either ignored or trolled off the front page.

Instead, I'll just make sweeping generalizations like everyone else.  Seems to be effective.

Edit: I've been called everything from "idiot", "troll", "Cavs fan" to "Billups himself", "Sam Cassell" and "alien" on this board for stating my views.  Forgive me for repeatedly raising to everyone's attention the fact that:
1) Eddie Homeless is a notorious choker, especially in the playoffs.  You aren't a losing team journeyman for a reason
2) Sam Cassell is a notorious big game crunch time player - the exact reason we bought him out of his contract was to bring him here for this series.

It's baffling to me how evident it is that we are worse with House on the floor and how blind the majority of posters on this board are to that.  Everyone is so sentimental towards every player as if they were their child (unless, of course, they're ugly - everyone needs a scape goat).

I'm not going to repeat what I've already said with effort when the effort goes to naught.  Hope that clears things up for ya.
God bless and good night!


Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2008, 12:47:07 PM »

Offline PlayRyanGomes

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I don't see any evidence that Detroit pressing House is a problem.  His +/- was +1 in game 1 and -1 in game 2.  Therefore he's even in the series which is all you can ask considering he's out there with the likes of BBD, PJ, and Posey.  He has not committed a turnover in the series.  Cassell didn't show me anything in his playoff minutes that he's capable of guarding NBA point guards or shooting guards.  Nor has he run the offense in his minutes.

Yes I can see that they are picking up House in the backcourt but until someone can point to evidence that it's causing a problem for the team, I am not convinced that Cassell should see the floor.
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Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2008, 12:52:09 PM »

Offline Andy Jick

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We will definitely see Sam on the road...here's a quote from Doc in today's Globe that pretty much verifies this:

"Coach Doc Rivers was asked about choosing between the two. "You know how you guys are," said Rivers. "If Sam is not playing well, play Eddie. If Eddie is not playing well, play Sam. Either way, you're a dunce. I think on the road Sam's experience would help. We'll see."
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: Time to dust off Cassell
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2008, 12:58:37 PM »

Offline Redz

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Doc danced around it a bit on WEEI this morning, saying something along the lines of "That's something you might see."  It came across as, "Yes, you'll see Sam.", but he didn't commit to anything, and I can't say I blame him there.
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