At what point do the KG - Sheed comparisons stop?

[Big Ticket]

Seriously, KG and Sheed aren't at all mirror images of each other. One of them has a NBA Championship ring and the other one doesn't.

I'm sorry, but that's as far as I need to go to discount the entirety of your post.  Put KG on that Pistons team in 2003 and right now we're not mentioning the Detroit Pistons playing in 6 straight conference finals, we're putting them in the discussion with the Lakers and Spurs for best team of this decade.  Rasheed Wallace has taken due blame for being a big contributer to the Pistons seemingly preference to not care or act like losing is cool.  You really think that happens if KG is on that team?  The Pistons of the last 4 years have still been a superstar away from rolling through the league yearly, Rasheed Wallace is not that player, Kevin Garnett would be.

And hat tip to Roy for laying down the cool, hard numbers so that I don't have to.

[CelticsPrideKG]

Seriously, KG and Sheed aren't at all mirror images of each other. One of them has a NBA Championship ring and the other one doesn't.

Look before people think I'm just trolling here, I'm a lifetime Celtics fan and was enthused to see KG playing so aggressively last night. But I am trying to counter this thread's absurd disrepect of Sheed's game and lionizing of KG. For instance:

But yes, Rasheed is about as much a "mirror" for KG as, say, Jason Richardson is for Kobe.  They do a lot of the same things, but KG does everything better.

Look, KG, especially presently, may be better than Sheed. KG is also a tiny bit younger though. And given their stats, their style of play, their fiery temperments and renown for defense, it's hard to make a case that they are too dissimilar. They are often both criticized for the same tendency to drift away from the post, and not dominate inside. Both get criticized as such for then being soft. But KG does everything so much better? I have to counter by saying the proof is on the ring finger. While KG's TWolves amassed the best record in the Western Conference in 2003-4, they lost to the Lakers in 6 in the WCF. On the other hand, the Detroit Pistons were not even the best team in their conference and were considered (especially at that time) less than able to beat the Lakers. And you all know what happened, Sheed and the Pistons beat the same Lakers team that dispatched KG's Wolves with relative ease, winning in 5.

My point being, you may dislike Sheed, you may even be correct that KG is presently better, but don't disrespect Sheed's game and claim KG is head and shoulders better. They are certainly not too far off statistically, defensively, and crticism-wise, and right now, Sheed has a big gold trophy on his resume that KG does not, against a team, no less, that KG could not beat.

Ease up on that Kool-Aid y'all, it's just been one, thankfully good, game.

I'm not gonna argue all of your points, although I disagree heavily with most of your opinions.


I will say though, that it would have been virtually impossible for the Wolves to beat the Lakers that year without a point guard.  Cassell was injured early in the series and Troy Hudson was injured all post season and was mostly a non-factor as well.  There were times in that series where KG was bringing the ball up the court. You add in the fact that Garnett never played with the talent level that is currently in Detroit (except MAYBE once in 2004) and the comparisons should stop . . . especially considering how much better the West was at that point when compared to the East.


Although people like to look at Garnett's contract as a reason for the Wolves lagging behind in his last few years, it was almost entirely the FO's fault for the whole Joe Smith debacle.


In conclusion, Kevin Garnett >>>>>>>>> Rasheed Wallace. lol

[Big Ticket]

Although people like to look at Garnett's contract as a reason for the Wolves lagging behind in his last few years, it was almost entirely the FO's fault for the whole Joe Smith debacle.

Actually, the biggest detriment, aside from losing four 1st round picks, was related to KG's contract.  It was not, however, that he signed such a big contract, so much as the time that he signed it.  When that deal was made, the future salary cap implications were non-existent.  Having a massive contract on your books became a huge detriment after the post-lockout CBA was agreed upon, which came after KG's deal was done.  Tim Duncan was about to get a contract even bigger than Garnett's, until the lockout happened and it was no longer feasible to make deals of that nature.

[CelticsPrideKG]

Although people like to look at Garnett's contract as a reason for the Wolves lagging behind in his last few years, it was almost entirely the FO's fault for the whole Joe Smith debacle.

Actually, the biggest detriment, aside from losing four 1st round picks, was related to KG's contract.  It was not, however, that he signed such a big contract, so much as the time that he signed it.  When that deal was made, the future salary cap implications were non-existent.  Having a massive contract on your books became a huge detriment after the post-lockout CBA was agreed upon, which came after KG's deal was done.  Tim Duncan was about to get a contract even bigger than Garnett's, until the lockout happened and it was no longer feasible to make deals of that nature.

I agree with you that of course it hurt some of their chances but I will argue that losing 3 first round draft picks had at least as much of an impact on the future of the franchise while he was there.  At worst they would have had a great chance to have IMPACT role players that were young and at best may have found another star or two with those draft picks.  This combined with idiotic drafts like taking Ndubi Ebi (sp?) over players like Josh Howard just show how bad decision making in Minnesota is. (Besides trading Garnett to Boston anyway)

[dirtyeggs]

Garnett>Sheed>Coleman

Not a question of talent .... a question of Desire.

None of these guys had horrible injuries ..... just some wanted it more.   I have never signed a multi-million dollar contract but I can see how some people get lazy and play out the string - Garnett doesn't do that because he wants to be one of the best.

Sheed and Coleman didn't want that.  (It seemed at times Webber did .... but not often enough)

[kevbo]

Man, your boss comes in the office and forces you off Csblog for a while, and the whole thread blows up while you are away. It seems as if the majority of the people reacting to my post heard me saying "Rasheed Wallace is better than KG," which I did not say.

The initial point of my post was to say if there was anything entirely dissimilar about Rasheed and KG, it's that Rasheed has won a ring and KG has yet to do so. Otherwise, the post was in service to tempering people a bit because the sentiment here is that KG is a vastly superior player and to even mention Rasheed in comparison to KG is almost an insult to KG. All I am pointing out is that a comparison is merited between the two because, 1. they play very similar styles and receive similar criticisms, and 2. Rasheed has won a championship while at the same time, KG was not able to do, regardless of whatever factors you want to attribute that to. Therefore, it's pretty obvious to me that it's perfectly warranted to compare them both, as they are easily two of the pre-eminent power forwards in the NBA from 1996 onward.

Now kudos to Roy Hobbs for the stat breakdown, that was actually revealing to because I remembered Rasheed's earlier Blazer seasons better than they seem to be, statistically. And KG definitely outperform Rasheed when compared like that, for sure. Again though, my post's point was to question whether KG IS SO MUCH BETTER than Rasheed like people are lionizing KG to be? Although that's a distinction that might be lost because people tend to stop listening anytime anyone defends Rasheed.

Still I am happy to admit, especially thanks to Roy's research that KG is indeed better than Rasheed, but I still don't think it's akin to likening him to being Jason Richardson to KG's Kobe. Maybe if someone had said "Sheed is Denis Rodman to KG's Charles Barkely," I'd have been fine with that, since that seems more analagous and gets the championship vs. non-championship winner dynamic right. And though I don't generally think championships necessarily determine who's a better player, I think the 2004 example was merited because, by a lot of standards that season, the TWolves were considered a better team yet did not have the success against the same Lakers team that the Pistons did. Does that make KG worse than Sheed? Of course not. But it certainly indicates to me that Sheed earned his right to be compared and considered on a similar elite level to KG.