Author Topic: Coaching  (Read 2239 times)

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Coaching
« on: May 20, 2008, 05:49:17 PM »

Offline mustang

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I expect us to win the title this year, and for anyone who actually believes that thinking or discussing otherwise somehow affects the outcome of a game played by millionaire freaks of nature, you should stop reading......

I also expect, that if we don't, Doc will be back.....

But if we don't, and he isn't, and Avery is available, or Mark Jackson, or JVG, wouldn't we have to go after one of those three guys (particularly the last two)?

This is the era of parity in the NBA, and coaches are as much of an X-factor now as they ever have been, in my opinion. Just look at the list of coaches in the NBA Finals in the post-MJ era, the evidence is pretty clear...

98-99:
Pop (no explanation needed) v. JVG (excellent defensive mind/motivator).
99-00
Phil (no explanation needed) v. Larry Bird (knew when/how to delegate, total respect of his players)
00-01
Phil (see above) v. Larry Brown (no explanation needed)
01-02
Phil (see above) v. Byron Scott (really, really underrated coach/motivator until this year's Coach of the Year Award. Will be coaching and winning in the NBA for decades).
02-03
Pop (see above) v. Scott (see above)
03-04
Larry Brown (see above) v. Phil (see above)
04-05
Pop (see above) v. Larry Brown (see above)
05-06
Riley (no explanation needed) v. Avery Johnson (strong presence, motivator (at first), still working with leftovers of Don Nelson's gameplan, kind of like the Gruden-Dungy sitch that won the Tampa Bay Buccaneers a Super Bowl in 2003).
06-07
Pop v. Mike Brown (the anomaly on this list, weak Eastern Conference, LeBron took over, etc...and the Cavs were never really in any of the 4 games, in my opinion, everybody knows the real Finals was between Pop v. D'Antoni and Pop v. Sloan).

You really do need an excellent coach to win in this era...and so far, Doc has been far from excellent this playoffs. What should we do?

Re: Coaching
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2008, 06:11:59 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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I expect us to win the title this year, and for anyone who actually believes that thinking or discussing otherwise somehow affects the outcome of a game played by millionaire freaks of nature, you should stop reading......

I also expect, that if we don't, Doc will be back.....

But if we don't, and he isn't, and Avery is available, or Mark Jackson, or JVG, wouldn't we have to go after one of those three guys (particularly the last two)?

This is the era of parity in the NBA, and coaches are as much of an X-factor now as they ever have been, in my opinion. Just look at the list of coaches in the NBA Finals in the post-MJ era, the evidence is pretty clear...

98-99:
Pop (no explanation needed) v. JVG (excellent defensive mind/motivator).
99-00
Phil (no explanation needed) v. Larry Bird (knew when/how to delegate, total respect of his players)
00-01
Phil (see above) v. Larry Brown (no explanation needed)
01-02
Phil (see above) v. Byron Scott (really, really underrated coach/motivator until this year's Coach of the Year Award. Will be coaching and winning in the NBA for decades).
02-03
Pop (see above) v. Scott (see above)
03-04
Larry Brown (see above) v. Phil (see above)
04-05
Pop (see above) v. Larry Brown (see above)
05-06
Riley (no explanation needed) v. Avery Johnson (strong presence, motivator (at first), still working with leftovers of Don Nelson's gameplan, kind of like the Gruden-Dungy sitch that won the Tampa Bay Buccaneers a Super Bowl in 2003).
06-07
Pop v. Mike Brown (the anomaly on this list, weak Eastern Conference, LeBron took over, etc...and the Cavs were never really in any of the 4 games, in my opinion, everybody knows the real Finals was between Pop v. D'Antoni and Pop v. Sloan).

You really do need an excellent coach to win in this era...and so far, Doc has been far from excellent this playoffs. What should we do?
Doc will be back no matter what. Of that there is very little doubt in my mind.

But for arguments sake let's say he's not. I think Jeff Van Gundy is seriously flawed as a coach with a bad offensive system and is abrasive with his players and front office often. I don't see that type of guy working out here.

Mark Jackson? Why? Because he can comment on a basketball game? He's unproven and at the moment would be a serious step backward in my mind. The last thing this team needs is an untested, unproven coach.

As for Avery Johnson, that's a name worth considering. But honestly I don't like the way the team has folded in the playoffs the last three years. I have serious reservations about Avery in the playoffs. I've never seen a lot of Mavs games but just from what I've seen in the postseason the last three years, I'm not brimming over with excitement of him as a coach.

If Doc has to go I really don't care for anyone available at the moment. Giving a coach who's been here a year and who already has the respect of the players, like Tom Thibodeau, might be a decent attempt but again no head coaching experience and there could be a very good reason why he's been an assistant for 22 years and never been given a shot at his own team. I'd hate to find out what that reason is next year when a championship run will be all but an afterthought after the way the team gelled this year.

Re: Coaching
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2008, 06:25:46 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I think Mike Brown gets thrown under the bus a little too often for my likings, even if I don't think much of his coaching. Two seasons in a row he has had his team over-perform to quite a great degree. Not only that, I think many people underappreciate his defensive genius.  He's had two great defensive squads with him, and any person that can get Wally to be part of a great defensive system should be commended.

Re: Coaching
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2008, 06:45:03 PM »

Offline Mr October

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All things considered, I think Doc's doing a decent job of coaching. When the C's are screwing up, I'm seeing players making bad passes, or missing shots. There is only so much a coach can do. The game plan mostly looks solid. And it is clear Doc is learning how to do this as he goes.

And I would rather have him then half the coaches in the NBA. I definitely want him over Avery Johnson and Mark Jackson.... Jeff Van Gundy could be interesting if the C's completely collapse against Detroit.

I don't think Jerry Sloan or Byron Scott are available anytime soon. Those are great/versatile coaches!

Re: Coaching
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2008, 06:50:30 PM »

Offline mustang

  • Xavier Tillman
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Quote
Doc will be back no matter what. Of that there is very little doubt in my mind.

But for arguments sake let's say he's not. I think Jeff Van Gundy is seriously flawed as a coach with a bad offensive system and is abrasive with his players and front office often. I don't see that type of guy working out here.

Mark Jackson? Why? Because he can comment on a basketball game? He's unproven and at the moment would be a serious step backward in my mind. The last thing this team needs is an untested, unproven coach.

As for Avery Johnson, that's a name worth considering. But honestly I don't like the way the team has folded in the playoffs the last three years. I have serious reservations about Avery in the playoffs. I've never seen a lot of Mavs games but just from what I've seen in the postseason the last three years, I'm not brimming over with excitement of him as a coach.

If Doc has to go I really don't care for anyone available at the moment. Giving a coach who's been here a year and who already has the respect of the players, like Tom Thibodeau, might be a decent attempt but again no head coaching experience and there could be a very good reason why he's been an assistant for 22 years and never been given a shot at his own team. I'd hate to find out what that reason is next year when a championship run will be all but an afterthought after the way the team gelled this year.
[/quote]
Quote

all valid points. I like Jackson because I think he is an intelligent guy who would command the respect of his players and would be comfortable delegating (like Larry Bird in Indiana). The latter observation is entirely from my gut. Avery, I think, needed to be humbled, but has all the tools. And Van Gundy, I think, would be much better for Rondo's development--we've done the former point guard thing already with Rivers (which may mean points against AJ and Mark Jackson), built the Thibodeau philosophy that has been so successful here, is Pop-esque in support of his guys (remember him clinging to the legs of the opposition?), and--though he's not as much of a so-called offensive minded coach as Doc--at least has made a Finals run before with some pretty flawed personnel. Two of the three are better coaches than Doc, I believe, and Jackson is just a gut call.

But I see your point, and agree the pickin's are slim...