Doc has passed the threshold

[reggie35]

I am not a fan of Doc Rivers. However, before the playoffs started I said that anything less than a trip to the ECF would fall short of expectations and should lead to his dismissal. Well, he's made it there. Therefore, barring a Detroit sweep, I think he will (and probably should be) back next year.

I still think there's got to be a better coach out there, but they wouldn't have justification for changing now. I do sense some frustration from some of the players with him, but winning cures all ills.

[BrickJames]

The only coach I'd even consider having over Doc, for this team, is Jeff Van Gundy.  And as you said, the only way I'd even consider JVG at this point given the outstanding year Doc, his staff, and the team has had, is if they get swept by Detroit.

Doc shall return - and he deserves nothing less.

[Neurotic Guy]

I had a similar threshold in mind simply because I don't think one could blame Doc for a loss to the Pistons since they are a strong, talented and experienced team.  However, as you point out, a crushing at the hand of the Pistons -- a 4 or 5 game series -- would leave the door open for a coaching change.  I hope the C's can make a great series out of this one and I think game 1 will tell the story.

[Bahku]

I am not a fan of Doc Rivers. However, before the playoffs started I said that anything less than a trip to the ECF would fall short of expectations and should lead to his dismissal. Well, he's made it there. Therefore, barring a Detroit sweep, I think he will (and probably should be) back next year.

I still think there's got to be a better coach out there, but they wouldn't have justification for changing now. I do sense some frustration from some of the players with him, but winning cures all ills.

While I agree that he'll most likely be back next year, (probably a 90% chance), I don't agree that he should be back next year. I like Doc very much, but have seen enough this year, and especially in these playoffs, to know the he is in way over his head, and does not possess the tools to competently coach an NBA team successfully.

His rotations make no sense, his play-calling is erratic, his knowledge of the game is limited, and he doesn't command the players' respect as much as he should. It would have been tough for any coach to not have had a successful season this year, with the talent that we acquired, and all anyone need do is look at last year's record to see how truly inadequate he is at coaching an NBA team.

I truly don't like saying these things, because I've been a Doc supporter for most of his time here, but I've considered a great many things in coming to this decision, and again, while I'd bet on him still being here at this time in 2009, I personally want a new coach next year, and will support any lobby for his replacement. Sorry ... he certainly has done the best job he could with the talents he possesses, I just don't feel his best is near good enough.

[35Reggie]

He seems to have a good relationship with his players and I love his focus on the defensive end, but there are a few things that I don't think he'll ever change that will prevent him from being a great coach. His refusal to call a timeout when an opponent is on a run is maddening as are his substitution patterns. I blame a lot of Ray's struggles on him because he's the oldest of the three, is coming off of 2 ankle surgeries, and he registered more playing time than anyone else. However, the most frustrating news came during the game 4 broadcast of the last series when the team looked unusually sluggish. They mentioned that after the game 3 debacle the team had a training camp like practice the day before the game. Decisions like that make me question just how intelligent this guy is.

[winsomme]

i think Doc has passed the panic threshold.

now it is time to really test his coaching chops. playing the Pistons is a chess match. especially with all their experience executing their offense.

if the Cs play well, this could be a fascinating series.

[nickagneta]

I am not a fan of Doc Rivers. However, before the playoffs started I said that anything less than a trip to the ECF would fall short of expectations and should lead to his dismissal. Well, he's made it there. Therefore, barring a Detroit sweep, I think he will (and probably should be) back next year.

I still think there's got to be a better coach out there, but they wouldn't have justification for changing now. I do sense some frustration from some of the players with him, but winning cures all ills.

I think Doc is a good coach, not great, but good. I would probably say that of the current 30 men who are now coaching in the NBA, Doc is probably middle of the road better than 15 or so, worse than 10 or so and the same as 5 or so. If you fire Doc there really isn't any of the top ten coaches available to hire.

And if you say Jeff Van Gundy, well I'm not a big fan of his. He brings all the same problems that Rivers does. He isn't a great postseason coach, he is defensively oriented, he isn't the best offensive coach, he's hardheaded, he doesn't change things when they aren't working, and unlike Doc, he can be quite abrasive with his players and front office and to criticism.

So if not Van Gundy who is available that you want coaching the Celtics?

An unproven assistant? With this talent? NO, not for me.

Larry Krystkowiak?
Sam Vincent?
Isiah Thomas???
Avery Johnson?

Who?

[Who]

Right or wrong I can't imagine Danny letting Doc go after this season, not after this regular season and postseason run.

We'll be seeing Doc coaching the Celtics next season

[wdleehi]

At this point, the only way Doc gets replaced is:


1) if he retires
2) Two of the stars goes to management and tell them "We love Doc, but we need a better coach"
3) Doc has a meltdown
4) Doc hits on the owners wife. 

[reggie35]

I think Doc is a below average coach.

I'd take Danny Ainge over Doc if Danny's family would let him. I'd take Bird, but he's done with coaching and the Celtics. Tom Thibedeau. Al Skinner. Sam Cassel. Sam Vincent, Yosemite Sam... anybody... I'd take a chance on somebody. By bell curve odds, I think we'd be better off.

[wdleehi]

I think Doc is a below average coach.

I'd take Danny Ainge over Doc if Danny's family would let him. I'd take Bird, but he's done with coaching and the Celtics. Tom Thibedeau. Al Skinner. Sam Cassel. Sam Vincent, Yosemite Sam... anybody... I'd take a chance on somebody. By bell curve odds, I think we'd be better off.

Only experienced coaches. 

Coaches that would be ready to lead this team to titles. 

[fairweatherfan]

<snip>

While I agree that he'll most likely be back next year, (probably a 90% chance), I don't agree that he should be back next year. I like Doc very much, but have seen enough this year, and especially in these playoffs, to know the he is in way over his head, and does not possess the tools to competently coach an NBA team successfully.

<snip>

I'm the first to say Doc has made some questionable decisions (and some good ones, though more questionable than good, it's important to remember this), but what exactly is your standard for "competently coaching an NBA team successfully"?  How massive was his margin for error this year if a chronically incompetent coach can win 66 games and (at least) make the Conference Finals?  Yes, he makes mistakes, some of which are maddening to many of us, and yes the team has struggled in the playoffs - some of that goes to Doc, but quite a bit goes to a lack of playoff experience between the playoffs, and tentative play overall.  And, net result, however we've done it, we've won...

I understand why people don't like Doc or many of his decisions, and I side with them on individual criticisms most of the time, but the idea that he is a horrible coach, or one who is literally incapable of being successful, is a bit ridiculous.  Red freaking Auerbach never had a winning % as high as Doc had this year - don't get me wrong, Doc couldn't carry Red's jock as a coach, but if a totally incompetent coach pulled that off, he must have about the best roster in NBA history.

Again, this isn't to say Doc is a Hall of Fame coach or one of the best in the league, but to say he's "incapable of succeeding" with a +.800 regular season and a conference finals trip begs the question of exactly what successful means these days.

[reggie35]

<snip>

While I agree that he'll most likely be back next year, (probably a 90% chance), I don't agree that he should be back next year. I like Doc very much, but have seen enough this year, and especially in these playoffs, to know the he is in way over his head, and does not possess the tools to competently coach an NBA team successfully.

<snip>

I'm the first to say Doc has made some questionable decisions (and some good ones, though more questionable than good, it's important to remember this), but what exactly is your standard for "competently coaching an NBA team successfully"?  How massive was his margin for error this year if a chronically incompetent coach can win 66 games and (at least) make the Conference Finals?  Yes, he makes mistakes, some of which are maddening to many of us, and yes the team has struggled in the playoffs - some of that goes to Doc, but quite a bit goes to a lack of playoff experience between the playoffs, and tentative play overall.  And, net result, however we've done it, we've won...

I understand why people don't like Doc or many of his decisions, and I side with them on individual criticisms most of the time, but the idea that he is a horrible coach, or one who is literally incapable of being successful, is a bit ridiculous.  Red freaking Auerbach never had a winning % as high as Doc had this year - don't get me wrong, Doc couldn't carry Red's jock as a coach, but if a totally incompetent coach pulled that off, he must have about the best roster in NBA history.

Again, this isn't to say Doc is a Hall of Fame coach or one of the best in the league, but to say he's "incapable of succeeding" with a +.800 regular season and a conference finals trip begs the question of exactly what successful means these days.

Agreed. This is why I don't think there's a legitimate reason for replacing him (save for a complete collapse against Detroit). He's met expectations with this (historically good) roster.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I agree with those that say Danny will not fire Doc no matter what.  I also agree with those that would fire Doc even if the Celtics won the championship.  I think people too often confuse outcomes with process.  When a "good" game for Doc is one where he makes logical substitutions, like in Game 7, that is a bad sign.  That means we think he is doing a good job *not* when he makes an inspired choice, etc., but when he does what a logical person would do, i.e. he doesn't screw up. . .

[Amonkey]

For the available coaches if we were to move on without Doc, no one has to look beyond the man on a suit next to Doc during games, Mr. Thibodeau (spl).  I think Tibby would be a great coach and great transition as well.  We all know the difference he has made on the team defensively.  I dont know how well of a in-game coach he is (he has to go questions Doc's moves too eventually).  So no JVG, Avery Johnson, or whoever is out there.