Author Topic: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!  (Read 9026 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« on: May 07, 2008, 06:47:53 PM »

Offline Oldschoolkid

  • Oshae Brissett
  • Posts: 57
  • Tommy Points: 5
So what about these two, they helped you win all season, now you omit them...? Tony Allen is probably the Celtics best slasher, he always is good for a layup! Watching the celtics find it impossible to do anything except the one pass then an outside shot crap, put TA in...he will show you you can create a layup. And what is this one pass crap, we looked like cleveland there & they looked like us for a while!!! Now Eddie House, a greeat shooter and his defense is as good as Ray Allen's, now don't get me wrong, i love Ray Allen, but when his game is slumping put in Eddie, he can score, he can shoot, and he can defend. Towards the end of the season he came on as a very dependable defender. Doc, don't tighten up, these guys got you there. Use them all. You will not go far just without them, they are your change-up players!!! Oh, and Leon, heads up under the hoop, look at where the defense is. One more thing, PJ Brown on Ilgauskas, you don't put KG on him, you already lose Paul P on D, it is impossible to be effective on both ends of the floor. Give PJ a real job out there, he CAN do it you know!!!

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2008, 06:56:30 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
eddie yes, tony no.

tony isn't constant enough to play playoff basketball, he's actually used correctly at the moment (see several quick runs for extra defense on lebron last night.)

tony is a nice kid and a decent defender (he fouls to much due to mental mistakes for me to consider him a specialist, see joe johnson game changing foul on a 3 point attempt for no reason), he was inconstitant all year, rightfully earning the nickname around here of "human turnover machine" If the best way to guard you is to let you dribble in traffic, you can't play extended minutes. the man turns it over at an average rate of 4 TO's per 10 minutes. not acceptable, and you earned a spot on the pine.


Eddie should be getting some run though, specifically at the 2. I don't understand why doc insists that ray play 40+ a night yet rondo can't by 30 minutes on the floor. espcally since Eddie can spot up and shoot, which is needed with ray being cold at times, and still spread the floor. If he knocks one down teams have to gaurd him because he tends to make or miss in bunches.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2008, 06:58:42 PM »

Offline Jon

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6499
  • Tommy Points: 385
On any team in any league, there's always a hierarchy of players.  Someone is always better than someone else.  Ultimately, the best players should play as much as possible.  If it wasn't for fatigue, an occasional matchup issue, and foul trouble, the starters should really play every single minute of every single game.  Since we live in the real world and not in a video game where you can turn off those things, subs are needed.  Still, in most cases 3-4 subs can take care of all the backup duties needed on a given night. 

The simple fact of the matter is that Cassell is more than capable of handling all the backup PG duties, Posey is more than capable of playing all the backup minutes at the 2 and 3 spots, and Powe and Brown can easily cover the 4-5 spots.  So, to me, the only reason to play Allen or House is if you think they're better than Posey and Cassell respectively.  And if that's the case, then they should be getting all the minutes.  It only would hurt House and Cassell, and Allen and Posey if they each got 5-10 minutes per game and were unable to establish any sort of rhythm.   

But I don't believe that's the case.  Cassell is a far better point guard than House and putting up all the scoring numbers House would.  Posey is a far better defensive player than Allen with much better size and experience.  It'd be foolish to steal any minutes from Posey or Cassell.  They're huge reasons why the C's won last night.

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2008, 07:04:38 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
you think this even though our offense stagnates nearly every time sam is in without KG?

sam may put up points, but he doesn't move the ball at all, eddie does.

look at last night when doc let him play 10 minutes without KG or paul and sat rondo, for some reason

3 points, 0 assists, celtics let the cavs go on a 12-2 run.

in the fourth he was much better, not coincidently, KG was in to draw attention away from sam on the perimeter and run pick and rolls.

thank god we didn't stick with the kid who had 8 points and 4 assists in 10 minutes and was shredding the cavs interior defense, we might have gotten up more than 12.  ::)
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2008, 07:19:08 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
you think this even though our offense stagnates nearly every time sam is in without KG?

sam may put up points, but he doesn't move the ball at all, eddie does.

look at last night when doc let him play 10 minutes without KG or paul and sat rondo, for some reason

3 points, 0 assists, celtics let the cavs go on a 12-2 run.

in the fourth he was much better, not coincidently, KG was in to draw attention away from sam on the perimeter and run pick and rolls.

thank god we didn't stick with the kid who had 8 points and 4 assists in 10 minutes and was shredding the cavs interior defense, we might have gotten up more than 12.  ::)

Coincidentally, we had a twelve point 3rd quarter with... hmmm, Rondo playing with all the starters.  Then Cassell comes in the 4th and the team scores 23 points.  I don't know, I think there's more going on here than just Rondo coming out and Cassell coming in.

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2008, 07:20:50 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34023
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
you think this even though our offense stagnates nearly every time sam is in without KG?

sam may put up points, but he doesn't move the ball at all, eddie does.

look at last night when doc let him play 10 minutes without KG or paul and sat rondo, for some reason

3 points, 0 assists, celtics let the cavs go on a 12-2 run.

in the fourth he was much better, not coincidently, KG was in to draw attention away from sam on the perimeter and run pick and rolls.

thank god we didn't stick with the kid who had 8 points and 4 assists in 10 minutes and was shredding the cavs interior defense, we might have gotten up more than 12.  ::)

So where was Ray Allen?  Where was Pierce (since he came in before KG)? 


But lets put all the blame on Cassell for the lack of offense in the 2nd.  Especially since only 2 out of the 11 players that played in the 1st half established themselves as scorers in the 1st half. 


Tony got a 4 minute run last night because of fouls. 

House will get short runs when the Celtics need his specialties.  His outside shooting.



Celtics need less of getting every bench player involved. 

They need a solid 8 man rotation with the other 4 guys seeing spot minutes for specialty reasons. 

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2008, 07:21:58 PM »

Offline Yakmanev

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1003
  • Tommy Points: 29
I was just thinking if we could somehow transform Sherman Douglas back to his prime and put him in this rotation we'd be absolutely unstoppable.

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2008, 07:22:15 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
well, its tough to stay in rythem when your coach yanks you after a beautiful 1st quarter and sits you for 10 minutes i imagine, that leads to binding up and losing the flow of the game.

Doc clearly has a minute cap on rondo, and has all season. it doesn't matter how well rondo is playing, he comes out between 5-6 minutes left in the second, and 5 minutes left in the third.

during the season i figured it was to keep him fresh for the playoffs, but apperntly not ???
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2008, 07:24:40 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
you think this even though our offense stagnates nearly every time sam is in without KG?

sam may put up points, but he doesn't move the ball at all, eddie does.

look at last night when doc let him play 10 minutes without KG or paul and sat rondo, for some reason

3 points, 0 assists, celtics let the cavs go on a 12-2 run.

in the fourth he was much better, not coincidently, KG was in to draw attention away from sam on the perimeter and run pick and rolls.

thank god we didn't stick with the kid who had 8 points and 4 assists in 10 minutes and was shredding the cavs interior defense, we might have gotten up more than 12.  ::)

So where was Ray Allen?  Where was Pierce (since he came in before KG)? 


But lets put all the blame on Cassell for the lack of offense in the 2nd.  Especially since only 2 out of the 11 players that played in the 1st half established themselves as scorers in the 1st half. 


Tony got a 4 minute run last night because of fouls. 

House will get short runs when the Celtics need his specialties.  His outside shooting.



Celtics need less of getting every bench player involved. 

They need a solid 8 man rotation with the other 4 guys seeing spot minutes for specialty reasons. 

i'm not blaming sam, there were plenty of subpar performances by all involved on offense last night and he came up big in the fourth,  but can he mabey, i dunno,  pass once in awhile on a possession when he's out there without KG? i mean, fun as it is to watch him dribble for 16 seconds before taking a shot, something about swinging the ball around 4 to 5 times like we do when he's not in the game appeals to me.

Sam stagnates our offense. When he's hitting, its great, when he doesn't hit his shots, we look terrible, and his defense is atrocious, which often leads to the other team going on runs.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2008, 07:44:14 PM »

Offline Triboy16

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1229
  • Tommy Points: 24
I think pretty dumb move by doc not playing them with some consistancy. For heavens sake they got you here also. Even though scal stinks, you can't but feel it for the guy that he has to fake an injury to not play.

these guys got you here and its wrong to ignore them completely like doc has. Don't care if we win it all or not, i will never like him. A very fortunate coach to have a friend like ainge

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2008, 07:46:13 PM »

Offline crownsy

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8469
  • Tommy Points: 157
this is playoff basketball, i could care less if tony's feelings get hurt, or eddies either.

In the playoffs you shorten your bench, and guys who turn the ball over by dribbling off thier foot should be happy to get 3 minutes, ala last night.

the only reason i feel for eddie is he deserve's minutes at the 2, not because i give a [dang] about his feelings.

“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2008, 07:57:17 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
This stuff about the offense being stagnant when Cassell is in the game is getting a bit old. When Sam first got here and even into the first couple of games against the Hawks, Sam did take the team out of it's normal flow.

But over the last 6 games he has been much, much better at initiating a play and getting ball movement. Yes he still tries to find and even force his offense once or twice a game now, but he is light years better than he was.

His defense has been better than even the biggest Sam proponent would have guessed. He hasn't been costing the Celtics a lot of points with his defense. As a matter of fact, if I'm reading the 82games.com stats right he has a +5.5 on the +/- for on floor production which is 5th highest on the Celtics.

http://www.82games.com/0708/playoffs/0708BOS.HTM

Sam was brought into this team to win playoff game and in the Celtics 5 wins Sam is averaging nearly 9PPG with a 4:1 assist to turnover ratio and he's shooting 53% and 50% from the 3 pt line.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=bos&seasonYear=2008&season=3&sort=pts&order=true&avg=pg&split=33

Sam was one of three players that won the game all by themselves last night along with James Posey and KG. Without Sam's coolness under pressure, cluth 10 fourth quarter points and big defensive rebound, the Celtics lose last night. He's had 3 bad games in the playoff, all in Atlanta. Bad he wasn't the only one and was in no way, shape or form responsible for those losses.

But he was responsible for at least one win.

How can anyone complain about what he is doing for this team considering the statistical evidence that supports the fact that he is having a good postseason.

And someone explain to me why Eddie House deserves to play because he helped to get us there. Who cares. The only thing the C's owe House is a paycheck. In the playoffs you play the best and considering how clutch Sam has been in past postseasons and how well he's playing this postseason, why should we be playing a player who is not in any way better than Sam. Take a look at Eddie's splits for the last few weeks of the regular season. They are a lot worse than what Sam is putting up in the playoffs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=348

In the last 22 games before the playoffs Eddie shot 38% from the field, 36% from three, and had a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio and averaged 7 PPG. In a world of what have you done for me lately, House has been playing worse than Sam and Sam has a proven track record of playing big in this environment.

Eddie should be sitting and people need to realize that Doc has made his decision regarding Eddie and that Sam is proving it to be a very good decision.

[Editted. Slip of the finger with the original 19 PPG thing]
« Last Edit: May 07, 2008, 08:07:35 PM by nickagneta »

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2008, 08:01:06 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18699
  • Tommy Points: 1818
Great job there nickagneta, couldn't have said it better myself even if I tried.

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2008, 08:10:51 PM »

Offline Oldschoolkid

  • Oshae Brissett
  • Posts: 57
  • Tommy Points: 5
Getting sold on Sam is wrong, he had a few very bad fouls, reaching in and sort of being a hacker. He does not pass, he looks for his shots, he really isn't a point guard, a point guard is the set up man, who can score if no one is moving in his offense. He is playing like a shooting guard. The rotation i am talking about is Ray Allen vs Eddie House, if one isn't working, put in the other, as for Posey, good on D, yes, offense, hardly. Not much shot, never a layup or dunk........i like his grit, but we need points to. Eddie, for a points blast, that is all. It will also fire up Ray. No, you don't sit these guysw. And who said Tony Allen is a turn over machine, well the celts had 23 last night without him. It is matchups, different looks, different attacks, and fresh hungry players who are ready to do more!!!

Re: Tony Allen & Eddie House= play them!!!
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2008, 08:15:39 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Getting sold on Sam is wrong, he had a few very bad fouls, reaching in and sort of being a hacker. He does not pass, he looks for his shots, he really isn't a point guard, a point guard is the set up man, who can score if no one is moving in his offense. He is playing like a shooting guard. The rotation i am talking about is Ray Allen vs Eddie House, if one isn't working, put in the other, as for Posey, good on D, yes, offense, hardly. Not much shot, never a layup or dunk........i like his grit, but we need points to. Eddie, for a points blast, that is all. It will also fire up Ray. No, you don't sit these guysw. And who said Tony Allen is a turn over machine, well the celts had 23 last night without him. It is matchups, different looks, different attacks, and fresh hungry players who are ready to do more!!!

I don't agree with a single thing you said in this post. I think it is contrary to what is occuring and what is accepted, responsible NBA head coaching philosophies for the postseason.

But I will defend your right to say it until the very end.