Moving forward. How can the Celtics create easy shots for the swing guys?

[crownsy]

no, he was dragging the line as he always does, but he was cold and KG, much to his credit, took it upon himself to score.

Also, ray and paul work off each other. with paul having a poor night, the cavs didnt have to collapse, no collapse off paul's drives, no lanes for ray to slide into to.

Its no coindence that when paul has a good game, ray tends to have one as well, thier a perfect combo, a slasher who draws respect for shooting the 3, and a great quick release shooter.

[SquishPCfriar]

I think the cavs are going to focus a lot more on KG in game 2 and double down on him a lot more which will hopefully give ray allen and Pierce some more open looks and allow them to penetrate.  But [dang] they looked absolutely terrible in last nights game.

[KevinIsSars]

We need to start running. Cleveland doesn't like to run. We were playing at their tempo the whole game. Get Ray some open jumpers in transition before the D gets a chance to setup.

[Who]

I definitely agree: get Ray more plays from inside the arc.  In the past, I think Ray has heated up after the team has run some plays to the basket for him.  He needs to be more integrated into the offense, rather than simply a spot-up shooter.  Sometimes, Doc has a tendency to utilize Ray like Kyle Korver, and I think that does him a disservice.

That's a disservice to Kyle Korver, Jerry Sloan and the Utah Jazz. Korver plays 20mpg and gets more screens, a lot more, set for him than Ray Allen does in 36mpg. Korver actually gets plays called for him too, unlike Ray last night.

Ray oftentimes gets treated like he's a James Jones. Non-scoring threat who can only shoot set jump shots.

.......................

What happened last night was disgraceful with Doc and Rondo deserving the most blame. Then Pierce, then the rest of the team, then Ray. Ray needs good service in this series and he got none in game one.

[crownsy]

Its tough to serve ray when you dont get to play. Rondo sat for 18 minutes, including 10 IN A ROW after scoring 8 with 4 assists and 2 steals in 10 minutes in the first. When ray needed to be served to get hot, I.E the second quarter and the end of the first, Rondo was on the bench and sam the black hole was in.

God i hate doc not playing our PG who has done nothing but reward his trust in the playoffs. If you get sam hot and must play him, why not move him to the 2. rajon sitting for nearly 19 minutes last night= unacceptable.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Its tough to serve ray when you dont get to play. Rondo sat for 18 minutes, including 10 IN A ROW after scoring 8 with 4 assists and 2 steals in 10 minutes in the first. When ray needed to be served to get hot, I.E the second quarter and the end of the first, Rondo was on the bench and sam the black hole was in.

God i hate doc not playing our PG who has done nothing but reward his trust in the playoffs. If you get sam hot and must play him, why not move him to the 2. rajon sitting for nearly 19 minutes last night= unacceptable.

Yet Ray took his first shot of the game with two minutes remaining in the first quarter... didn't see much of Rondo serving him up then. And didn't see much of it in the 3rd either.

[crownsy]

how did sam do at serving ray for the entire 2nd quarter? or Kg from the low block?


KG was dominating wallace on the low block at the time, we were padding a 10 point lead, and were looking good on offense ( for once), But by all means, lets blame rondo for only getting open looks and assists to his big man, terrable move on his part, you'd hate to ride the hot hand to open up a 10 point lead.

If you want to make excuses for ray, why don't you blame KG for scoring 14 points in the first? seems to me he could have passed up dominating ben wallace and joe smith to make sure ray got a shot 

Clearly it couldn't be that ray had an off night shooting the ball, it must be rondo's fault. Some times guys have bad nights, i really don't think we need to pick it apart and blame thier teamates, i'm sure thats not what ray is doing today.

[BudweiserCeltic]

KG was dominating wallace on the low block at the time, we were padding a 10 point lead, and were looking good on offense, But by all means, lets blame rondo for only getting open looks and assists to his big man.

If you want to make excuses for ray, why don't you blame KG for scoring 14 points in the first? seems to me he could have passed up dominating ben wallace and joe smith to make sure ray got a shot 

Clearly it couldn't be that ray had an off night shooting the ball, it must be rondo's fault. Some times guys have bad nights, i really don't think we need to pick it apart and blame thier teamates, i'm sure thats not what ray is doing today.

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just pointing out the double standard and flaw in your reasoning. So, when it's about Sam, you're fine with blaming him for Ray's struggles, but when it comes to Rondo then no way does he have any part of it? Please.

God i hate doc not playing our PG who has done nothing but reward his trust in the playoffs. If you get sam hot and must play him, why not move him to the 2. rajon sitting for nearly 19 minutes last night= unacceptable.

It is acceptable, when your pointguard utterly sucked in the 3rd, with 3 turnovers and your back-up is out playing him and we're trying to win a game.

[crownsy]

Its not about "blaming sam" his game is to dribble out the other guard and shoot over the top, he's been doing it for his entire career and he's good at it. My point was it was foolish, and very, very counter productive for doc to bring in sam, knowing his game, when we were trying to move the ball and open guys up. not only that, he left him in for 10 unproductive minutes. Thats terrable, terrable coaching when a kid who was slicing and dicing thier interior defnse with his bigs was sitting 10 feet away twiddling his thumbs and losing his rythm, which is a huge part of NBA games.

you would think at some point during the  12-2 run that ensued, doc would call a TO or think "hmm mabey i should go back to that rondo fella, he was playing some pretty good PG, mabey move sam to the 2 if i want him to get his shot hot"

If you think sam feeds guys when he's on the floor, were going to have to agree to disagree, because i don't see it, outside of the pick and roll he runs with KG. Thats fine to, its never been sam's game outside of the pick and role, he's not a facilitator, he's a shooter. Thats not a dirty word, but you have to use those guys right.

But to put it on rondo, when he was moving the ball around and shredding the defense? I don't see the comparison your trying to make, when  the second quarter when sam backed down boobie 4 times by my count without one pass.

Sam is a good player, and valuable, he proved that in the 4th. but he is the LAST guy i would put in the game as a coach when i needed to get other shooters going.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Its not about "blaming sam" his game is to dribble out the other guard and shoot over the top, he's been doing it for his entire career and he's good at it. My point was it was foolish, and very, very counter productive for doc to bring in sam, knowing his game, when we were trying to move the ball and open guys up. not only that, he left him in for 10 unproductive minutes. Thats terrable, terrable coaching when a kid who was slicing and dicing thier interior defnse with his bigs was sitting 10 feet away twiddling his thumbs and losing his rythm, which is a huge part of NBA games.

you would think at some point during the  12-2 run that ensued, doc would call a TO or think "hmm mabey i should go back to that rondo fella, he was playing some pretty good PG, mabey move sam to the 2 if i want him to get his shot hot"

If you think sam feeds guys when he's on the floor, were going to have to agree to disagree, because i don't see it, outside of the pick and roll he runs with KG. Thats fine to, its never been sam's game outside of the pick and role, he's not a facilitator, he's a shooter. Thats not a dirty word, but you have to use those guys right.

But to put it on rondo, when he was moving the ball around and shredding the defense? I don't see the comparison your trying to make, when  the second quarter when sam backed down boobie 4 times by my count without one pass.

Sam is a good player, and valuable, he proved that in the 4th. but he is the LAST guy i would put in the game as a coach when i needed to get other shooters going.

First, it wasn't 10 minutes, it was more like 6 minutes and a half.  Secondly, his reputation is blinding many people here because he has been moving the ball in quite a respectable manner for the last few games; it's quite evident to me.  He only took 3 shots during that span, made one of them.  Nothing to applaud, but nothing terrible either.  Anyways, it's not about me thinking Sam as facillitator it's the assumption that with putting Rondo in there would've gotten Ray going, when he clearly was incapable of doing so in the 1st quarter, in a portion of the 2nd quarter, and in the 3rd quarter (our worst quarter, and Rondo was a big part of it).  So let's not kid ourselves, there are more things going on here than simply subbing Rondo out and putting Sam in.

I wish this though, that people would actually pay closer attention to Rondo as of late (though he has improved in the last two games) as he has been doing quite a poor job moving the ball, and all the things you guys don't like about Cassell he was doing during the Atlanta series. Yet, few here want to aknowledge it.

[crownsy]

Possably because what were seeing doesn't back it up, in our eyes anyway. and neither does his current 62 assists to 10 TO ratio. the kid is second in the playoffs to CP3 right now at setting up his teammates based on T/A ratio. His minutes are the exact same as they were all season long, i will be you a pizza that between the end of the first or 10:00 into the second, rondo is gone. He wont be back till the third, and then he'll be gone with 3:00 left in the third.

Doc clearly has some sort of minute cap on rondo, like he has all season.

the only thing doc changes based on how he's playing is play time in the fourth. been that way all year.

and no, it wasent 6 minutes, not that its a point of what i was trying to say at all. sam played 19 minutes last night. 10 in the second and 9 in the foruth and end of the third

http://www.nba.com/games/20080506/CLEBOS/boxscore.html

again, I'm not saying sam is a bad player, as you seem to have labeled my opinion to be, im saying that doc doesn't know how to use him effectively to maximize his strengths. Thats on doc, not sam. Sam has always been a guy you ride till he clangs a couple, yank, and then insert in a few minutes, and always a guy you can count on to hit open shots in the 4th, all things he did last night.

and quite honestly, this topic astounds me because were nitpicking this so much. We had a terrible night offensively outside of KG and sam, and an excellent night defensively.

Our defense has been excellent all year, and our offense has been darn good, so i know which one i expect to even out next game. To have a discussion on which gaurd is more responsible for Rays poor shooting is so nitpicky its beyond me. We will be fine, assuming Doc doesn't blow a few games, and to his credit he made some good decsions down the stretch last night, like not calling the expected TO with 21 seconds left to bail mike brown out of a poor sub with no TO's remaing, allowing KG to abuse joe smith instead of ben wallace.

Having said that, that simple paragraph will spark a 3 page discussion on why doc is terrible. Slow day with the boys off i guess 

[nickagneta]

Regarding the question the OP put forth in the title, I think if we asked Cleveland to stop playing really good defense, that might work.

[crownsy]

 
Anyone else think a little fatigue might have played a small role in the missed layup at the end of the 4th? 

In regards to Lebron, right?  Fatigue may have been a factor there but I actually think that he was bumped just enough by Posey (think it was Posey) to spin his body just enough to throw off the shot.  Yes, it was a layup but he was contorting his body quite a bit going into the shot and I think the bump threw him off just enough to make the shot more difficult.

the funny part is i think posey was trying to give the foul we had, either on his own or at doc's request, and it ended up not being called 

[wdleehi]

Regarding the question the OP put forth in the title, I think if we asked Cleveland to stop playing really good defense, that might work.

It is that defense that puts this question out there.  It takes more hard work within the team offense to get good, easy looks for Ray and Pierce. 

[CoachBo]

Easy. The ball quit moving for long periods of time last night. This team is an excellent passing team, and if the wings keep moving and keep looking for space, they'll get their shots.

As a coach, I couldn't disagree more with this notion that Cleveland somehow threw up an impenetrable defense. They played better than average on the defensive end, but poor ball movement and terrible ball security made their defense look a LOT better than it actually was.