Doc deserves A LOT of credit for tonight

[BudweiserCeltic]

Not fouling before Lebron's last drive was also a serious miscalculation.  That's on the coach, who should have told his players what to do and should have the credibility to get it done.  Doc even admitted it was a mistake after the game.  If Lebron scores, this is a totally different conversation.

Bottom line: Doc actually made a last minute decision that very well could have cost the Celtics the game.

Actually, Doc let them know that they had a foul to give and you can see Posey reaching in trying to foul him, but he either missed or the ref's didn't call it.

[jay_jay54]

Before i start giving Doc credit,i want to touch upon something i am concerned about that happened in the Atl series,having a fairly decent lead,and Doc changes the rotations,or insert bench players who changes the momentum,and lose the leads.Last night,in the second,we were up 10,i think,and for whatever reason,i will never figure,Doc takes KG and Rondo out,who were killing the Cavs.I think if he had stuck to what we were doing in the second,the game might  have gotten out of hand for the Cavs.I think at that point,it changed the whole game,it became  real sloppy play,from that point on.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Before i start giving Doc credit,i want to touch upon something i am concerned about that happened in the Atl series,having a fairly decent lead,and Doc changes the rotations,or insert bench players who changes the momentum,and lose the leads.Last night,in the second,we were up 10,i think,and for what reason,i will never figure,take KG and Rondo out,who were killing the Cavs.I think if he had stuck to what we were doing in the second,the game might  have gotten out of hand for the Cavs.I think at that point,it changed the whole game,it became  real sloppy play,from that point on.

Again, he played Garnett just the right amount of time.  I can see people taking issues with Rondo not playing as much in the 2nd quarter for the Cavs, but Garnett played 20 minutes in the half.  He played all of the 1st and the start of the 2nd, I think he needed much needed rest as he tends to get tired with the way he plays the game.

[jay_jay54]

Before i start giving Doc credit,i want to touch upon something i am concerned about that happened in the Atl series,having a fairly decent lead,and Doc changes the rotations,or insert bench players who changes the momentum,and lose the leads.Last night,in the second,we were up 10,i think,and for what reason,i will never figure,take KG and Rondo out,who were killing the Cavs.I think if he had stuck to what we were doing in the second,the game might  have gotten out of hand for the Cavs.I think at that point,it changed the whole game,it became  real sloppy play,from that point on.

Again, he played Garnett just the right amount of time.  I can see people taking issues with Rondo not playing as much in the 2nd quarter for the Cavs, but Garnett played 20 minutes in the half.  He played all of the 1st and the start of the 2nd, I think he needed much needed rest as he tends to get tired with the way he plays the game.

Understandable Budweiser,i know KG needs his rest,but it was just at that point of the game,i felt it might not have been a close one, like it turned into,if Doc had stayed with them.Also,if James had been playing well, and you give them chances like that again,it might not be the same ending.Its called a killer's instinct,go for the kill Doc.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

Doc admitted it was a mistake not to foul him. . . .
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/specials/playoffs/2008/05/06/fastbreaks.cavs.celtics/index.html?eref=T1

If Posey really wanted to foul him, he would have done a bit more.

Point is, it is tough to give Doc credit for a victory when Lebron was 2 for 18, unless you want to blame him equally for Pierce and Allen going 2 for 18.  It was an ugly game because of Doc's management and the Celtics are lucky Garnett pulled them through.

Not fouling before Lebron's last drive was also a serious miscalculation.  That's on the coach, who should have told his players what to do and should have the credibility to get it done.  Doc even admitted it was a mistake after the game.  If Lebron scores, this is a totally different conversation.

Bottom line: Doc actually made a last minute decision that very well could have cost the Celtics the game.

Actually, Doc let them know that they had a foul to give and you can see Posey reaching in trying to foul him, but he either missed or the ref's didn't call it.

[crownsy]

Lets not give Doc credit for Lebron's struggles any more than we blame him for Pierce and Allen's struggles.  If you are going to credit him for one, you have to blame him for the other.

As per usual, his rotation management, except for keeping House on the bench, was totally inconsistent.  And after Rondo's explosion in the first half, where was he when the Celtics offense totally stagnated and they couldn't generate any points? 

yes, you'd hate to give the head coach credit for a great defensive scheme, that would be outrageous. clearly pierce and posey got together on thier own at pauls on monday and devised the whole plan....

Come on i'm no doc lover, i think he's an alright coach at best, but some of the blinders you guys put on make me lolar's

as for rondo, he was watching sam score 10 clutch points. the only thing i had a problem with their was doc could have swapped sam to the 2 gaurd and gotten them both in.

But considering sam was a huge part of why we won tonight, not sure you can say "he should have played rondo!"

that only works it sam was playing poorly.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

A lot of the shots Lebron missed he will make in other games regardless of the scheme against him.  Everyone acknowledges that.  My point is just that if you give Doc credit in one area you also have to give him blame in other areas.  Why were Pierce and Allen not ready to play on offense, etc?  If they were scoring a lot but played poor defense against Lebron, we would have said Doc did not have them ready to play defense.  I just think you need a consistent metric for evaluation.

On the Rondo/Cassell thing.  I think you should, to whatever extent possible, judge the quality of decisions at the time they are made rather than waiting to see the outcome.  You would agree with that, right?  Otherwise when the team loses you would say the decisions were bad and when the team wins you say the decisions were good.  But you can win with bad decisions and lose with good decisions, etc.

Given how Rondo was playing and how Cassell played so far in the playoffs, the decision was odd.  Did it work out?  Yes, obviously it worked out.  But given that we do not know the counter-factual, i.e. the game if Rondo had played more in the 4th quarter, it is tough to know for sure. 

My point is just that all of Doc's "issues" were on display in this game.  The Celtics happened to win, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. . .

Lets not give Doc credit for Lebron's struggles any more than we blame him for Pierce and Allen's struggles.  If you are going to credit him for one, you have to blame him for the other.

As per usual, his rotation management, except for keeping House on the bench, was totally inconsistent.  And after Rondo's explosion in the first half, where was he when the Celtics offense totally stagnated and they couldn't generate any points? 

yes, you'd hate to give the head coach credit for a great defensive scheme, that would be outrageous. clearly pierce and posey got together on thier own at pauls on monday and devised the whole plan....

Come on i'm no doc lover, i think he's an alright coach at best, but some of the blinders you guys put on make me lolar's

as for rondo, he was watching sam score 10 clutch points. the only thing i had a problem with their was doc could have swapped sam to the 2 gaurd and gotten them both in.

But considering sam was a huge part of why we won tonight, not sure you can say "he should have played rondo!"

that only works it sam was playing poorly.

[galen]

A lot of the shots Lebron missed he will make in other games regardless of the scheme against him.  Everyone acknowledges that.  My point is just that if you give Doc credit in one area you also have to give him blame in other areas.  Why were Pierce and Allen not ready to play on offense, etc?  If they were scoring a lot but played poor defense against Lebron, we would have said Doc did not have them ready to play defense.  I just think you need a consistent metric for evaluation.

On the Rondo/Cassell thing.  I think you should, to whatever extent possible, judge the quality of decisions at the time they are made rather than waiting to see the outcome.  You would agree with that, right?  Otherwise when the team loses you would say the decisions were bad and when the team wins you say the decisions were good.  But you can win with bad decisions and lose with good decisions, etc.

Given how Rondo was playing and how Cassell played so far in the playoffs, the decision was odd.  Did it work out?  Yes, obviously it worked out.  But given that we do not know the counter-factual, i.e. the game if Rondo had played more in the 4th quarter, it is tough to know for sure. 

My point is just that all of Doc's "issues" were on display in this game.  The Celtics happened to win, but that doesn't mean they weren't there. . .

Lets not give Doc credit for Lebron's struggles any more than we blame him for Pierce and Allen's struggles.  If you are going to credit him for one, you have to blame him for the other.

As per usual, his rotation management, except for keeping House on the bench, was totally inconsistent.  And after Rondo's explosion in the first half, where was he when the Celtics offense totally stagnated and they couldn't generate any points? 

yes, you'd hate to give the head coach credit for a great defensive scheme, that would be outrageous. clearly pierce and posey got together on thier own at pauls on monday and devised the whole plan....

Come on i'm no doc lover, i think he's an alright coach at best, but some of the blinders you guys put on make me lolar's

as for rondo, he was watching sam score 10 clutch points. the only thing i had a problem with their was doc could have swapped sam to the 2 gaurd and gotten them both in.

But considering sam was a huge part of why we won tonight, not sure you can say "he should have played rondo!"

that only works it sam was playing poorly.

I'm not sure Lebron makes a lot of those shots he missed.  He only took about 3 shots right at the rim.  We mostly kept him out of the paint, which didn't let him get any rythum.  He is not a great 3pt shooter, his % is around 31%.  We forced him to settle for jumpers.  And what about having 10 TO's?  You can't say LBJ will have another 2 for 18 game, but if we're limiting him down to 25 and a below 40 FG%, the Cavs are not going to beat us.

As for the Subs in the 2nd quarter, he always has KG out the beginning of the 2nd quarter.  There is nothing unusual about that.  You can't complain about rotations being weird and also complain about his normal rotations.

When your stars shoot as poorly as they did, and you get the win, you got to get the credit.  If he losses, he also gets credit for that.

[crownsy]

TP, i was about to post the same reply. his shot chart hows 3 shots from inside the paint, and other than that he took shots over the top from mid and 3 pt range.

Lebron is many things, one thing he is not si a good shooter from range. He's not terrable either, but he shoots 31% from 3's and somethin like 42% from the field.

He great strength is getting to the rim, im not sure, as the poster above me said, that he normaly makes those shots, in fact he specficly avoids those shots as a first option.

[winsomme]

the goalposts/measuring stick gets moved around so frequently on this topic.

it has often been pointed out that Doc can't win the close games, so on that particular criteria last night was a big success.

winning a game when you get 4  combined points out of Pierce and Ray is also big success for this team as well....

they have cut down on TOs for sure and i would actually like to see Eddie in this series as well. not as a slight to Sam (who we would not have won last nights game without his performance) but just due to the fact that CLE seems to want to slow the game down and i think with Eddie we play at a much faster pace in the second unit.

it goes from series to series and  really even game to game in the playoffs and i think Eddie might be a good shot in the arm at this point when playing a team that we want run up and down the court...

all in all, not a lot to complain about from Doc's end last night. he ground out a huge win for us in a game where we may still have been feeling a little hangover from the ATL series and now can look to hopefully taking command of this series on Thurs night...