Author Topic: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?  (Read 7761 times)

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Re: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2008, 12:53:13 PM »

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Cleveland was the champs of the East. They were the team I wanted the Celtics to go through. Not Detroit, never Detroit, Detroit were weaker than Cleveland, much weaker. But then they went and made that idiotic trade. Now there's nobody in the East to go through. No holder, no frontrunner. Just a few talented teams (Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, Detroit).

I don't think Cleveland was ever better than Detroit.  I think Cleveland was a horrible matchup for Detroit, who have much more trouble matching up against Lebron than they do against more balanced teams.


It wasn't just Detroit that they were a terrible matchup for. The thing with Cleveland was that they were a terrible matchup for every playoff team in the East. They were the team to beat. Nobody had their number, nobody was able to beat them. Chicago weren't, Toronto weren't, Washington weren't, Miami weren't, Orlando weren't. That makes them the team to beat.

It wasn't just LeBron either. Detroit couldn't handle their big men, they had no answer for them on the backboards and Big Z did whatever he wanted offensively. They couldn't run their offense against that perimeter defense, because Hughes shut down Billups, Bron shut down Tayshaun, Pavlovic gave Hamilton are tough time. Cleveland took them out and they did on talent. It just wasn't pretty talent but it was talent.

Look at another part. Cleveland were the best defensive team in the East. They were the best rebounding team in the East. You have those two things you can control any game you play. When Cleveland stepped into the gym they controlled every game, they played their game every game, not anybody elses, it was their will and their best game. That was huge advantage.

That team was much much better than it was given credit for.

Re: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2008, 02:11:50 PM »

Offline Chris

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Cleveland was the champs of the East. They were the team I wanted the Celtics to go through. Not Detroit, never Detroit, Detroit were weaker than Cleveland, much weaker. But then they went and made that idiotic trade. Now there's nobody in the East to go through. No holder, no frontrunner. Just a few talented teams (Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, Detroit).

I don't think Cleveland was ever better than Detroit.  I think Cleveland was a horrible matchup for Detroit, who have much more trouble matching up against Lebron than they do against more balanced teams.


It wasn't just Detroit that they were a terrible matchup for. The thing with Cleveland was that they were a terrible matchup for every playoff team in the East. They were the team to beat. Nobody had their number, nobody was able to beat them. Chicago weren't, Toronto weren't, Washington weren't, Miami weren't, Orlando weren't. That makes them the team to beat.

It wasn't just LeBron either. Detroit couldn't handle their big men, they had no answer for them on the backboards and Big Z did whatever he wanted offensively. They couldn't run their offense against that perimeter defense, because Hughes shut down Billups, Bron shut down Tayshaun, Pavlovic gave Hamilton are tough time. Cleveland took them out and they did on talent. It just wasn't pretty talent but it was talent.

Look at another part. Cleveland were the best defensive team in the East. They were the best rebounding team in the East. You have those two things you can control any game you play. When Cleveland stepped into the gym they controlled every game, they played their game every game, not anybody elses, it was their will and their best game. That was huge advantage.

That team was much much better than it was given credit for.

You may be right...but my point is that they were not a bad matchup for the C's.  The C's matchup to the Cavs similarly to the way the Spurs did last year...and the results would likely be the same. 

I am talking about this year, not last year.

Re: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2008, 03:16:35 PM »

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Cleveland was the champs of the East. They were the team I wanted the Celtics to go through. Not Detroit, never Detroit, Detroit were weaker than Cleveland, much weaker. But then they went and made that idiotic trade. Now there's nobody in the East to go through. No holder, no frontrunner. Just a few talented teams (Boston, Orlando, Cleveland, Detroit).

I don't think Cleveland was ever better than Detroit.  I think Cleveland was a horrible matchup for Detroit, who have much more trouble matching up against Lebron than they do against more balanced teams.


It wasn't just Detroit that they were a terrible matchup for. The thing with Cleveland was that they were a terrible matchup for every playoff team in the East. They were the team to beat. Nobody had their number, nobody was able to beat them. Chicago weren't, Toronto weren't, Washington weren't, Miami weren't, Orlando weren't. That makes them the team to beat.

It wasn't just LeBron either. Detroit couldn't handle their big men, they had no answer for them on the backboards and Big Z did whatever he wanted offensively. They couldn't run their offense against that perimeter defense, because Hughes shut down Billups, Bron shut down Tayshaun, Pavlovic gave Hamilton are tough time. Cleveland took them out and they did on talent. It just wasn't pretty talent but it was talent.

Look at another part. Cleveland were the best defensive team in the East. They were the best rebounding team in the East. You have those two things you can control any game you play. When Cleveland stepped into the gym they controlled every game, they played their game every game, not anybody elses, it was their will and their best game. That was huge advantage.

That team was much much better than it was given credit for.

You may be right...but my point is that they were not a bad matchup for the C's.  The C's matchup to the Cavs similarly to the way the Spurs did last year...and the results would likely be the same. 

I am talking about this year, not last year.
It's just as true for this season

Everybody remembers those four games but they always leave out Larry Hughes. The only player who could defend a quick point guard in the rotation. He was injured. He wouldn't have stopped Tony but he would have made his life a lot more difficult and given Cleveland a solid slasher on the other end (he's also their best floor general and reduced the load on Bron, I've always thought his all-round contribution was undervalued, only his scoring was lacking and that was big but he did a lot of other things).

I thought the Cavs caused us more problems than we caused them. They were able to give us problems on the backboards. They defended Kevin Garnett very well like they have in previous seasons. Drew Gooden was athletic enough, strong enough, and long enough to bother him. Their defense was good enough to take our offense partially out of sync. LeBron was able largely able to offset Ray and Pierce with a small amount of help from Hughes. Obviously the single biggest problem was LeBron and what he did to our defense. Then you have Big Z who absolutely kills Perkins each time.

I really had a lot of admiration for those three long perimeter players. That gave them so many options on switches and pick and roll defense. It also allowed them to stop double teaming as often. Lots of doubles are caused by a small on a big or a big on small but all their guards and forwards were athletic enough to contest shots on switches.

They were 1-0 against us. That game went right down to the wire and could have either way. That game was exactly how I think a playoff series would have played out against them, rough games that went right down to the wire and could go either way. Any time Cleveland get that close they stand in great shape because of LeBron's brilliance. (I discounted the first because no LeBron and the fourth which we won was after the trade. I discounted the third because of KG but I think it's fairly/somewhat indicative I just don't expect people will agree with me. We were playing very strong basketball without him and similar to the way we normally play. Little less defense.)

The truth is we didn't cause them that many problems. They handled KG (15 and 8 on 40% shooting over 4 games, he had 18 and 10 on 40% last season against them). Drew Gooden worked KG hard on both ends, especially on the backboards. Their perimeter defense and size on the perimeter could compete. They didn't have to change a single thing to compete with us. They just played their game and they were able to win doing that. The only player that really caused them issues to change their gameplan was Rondo. Ray Allen has always played the Cavs well but they give him tough defense, he just makes heavily contested shots.

There hasn't been a single matchup this season where we've managed to play LeBron as tough as San Antonio did in the Finals, we play him hard but we can't do what they did because we've nobody as good as Bowen. Our defense does some other things well and better but we don't play LeBron as tough as San Antonio did. Tracy and a few others yes but not Bron. Plus LeBron is a far better player this season than before, his improvement has been sensational (which I've said many times before).

The single biggest thing about those games - it wasn't anywhere close to their best game. Their defense was nowhere near the standard that it previously was, and they snapped back into it for awhile this season pre-trade too so I expected that to be there come playoff time.

I thought they were a huge opponent and the best opponent we'd have to play. We matched up better with them than anyone else in the East by a large margin but they matched up well with us.

I don't think this is true any longer because of their trade.

Re: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2008, 03:50:22 PM »

Offline BringToughnessBack

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As much as I would love to see the Sixers knock off the Pistons who I can't stomach, having Orlando sweep the 76ers and being well rested for us while we have the Cavs to contend with is not my ideal scenario. Now, if we had the lowest seed to face in the next round, that would be a no brainer.

I think Karma got the best of me last night anyway..they were up by 10 when I turned it on and that is when they blew the lead. Rooting for 76ers felt like I was cheating or something..it did not feel right.

How about 7 grueling games followed by 7 more grueling games vs the Magic followed by a sweep by the Green in the 3rd round.

Re: Is anyone else pulling for the Sixers?
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2008, 03:55:11 PM »

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I think Detroit on the other hand poses a much more interesting matchup for the C's though.  The C's can handle the one dimensional Cavs with their team defense, but have much more trouble against a team like Detroit who move the ball and have multiple weapons that can hurt you. 

Also, a Detroit Boston series is just more fun in general, because of the history between the two clubs (recent, and not so recent).  There also are much more compelling matchups (Billups-Rondo, Prince-Pierce, Garnett-Wallace, etc.).  But most importantly, I think there is genuine animosity between these two teams.  They don't like each other, and a 7 game series will turn into an all-out war.  I just can't see that happening with Cleveland, who are all about Lebron, and even when they do "mix it up" with other teams, it seems contrived. 

Pistons-C's would be two teams led by genuinely insane players (Wallace and Garnett).  To me, that is a fun time.

When I was answering to why I thought the Cavs were tougher I thought it best to also cover why I didn't think Detroit were as tough so I rolled back to this quote. Firstly Detroit are a good team and capable of beating the Celtics, I wouldn't write them off by any means. I just don't think they're as capable of beating us as Cleveland were before the trade. And I also think the C's should be heavily favoured in a matchup against them.

The three games we played against them were exactly how I picture a series being. They need a brilliant game, not just good, brilliant game from Billups and Rip in order to win. Otherwise the Celtics have more than them. Each of the three games was fairly close but the Celtics always had more and better weapon and it showed down the stretch. The only game it didn't was when Billups had an incredible fourth quarter and they could have won that game. Nothing in those games are that worrying, we're clearly ahead of them with some comfort.

The only guy that causes us serious problems is Billups. Rip and Ray cancel each other out. Rasheed and KG roughly cancel each other out. McDyess and Perkins, there's no important difference three. Billups clearly causes Rondo problems with his guile and strength. Rondo can take him any time he wants on the other end but he probably won't do so consistently in a playoff series.

Then there's Pierce and Tayshaun which is a huge advantage for the Celtics. Pierce has averaged 23ppg, 7.5rpg, 4.2apg on well over 50% shooting against Tayshaun over the two prior seasons. He had mediocre nights this season but I don't think it was because of Tay, he knows how to play against Tayshaun and normally kills him. Prince is an overrated defender and he's also a defender that does much better against perimeter players who shoot perimeter jumpers and go off the dribble, players where he can step back and use his length against. Guys like Pierce who drive bullishly into the paint and have excellent mid post games, not nearly as a effective against them. Tay has never done well against Pierce offensively, Pierce takes his post game away and his penetration away. Making him a set jump shooter that is reliant on his teammates creating for him (he averaged 5ppg this season, only 12ppg in two seasons prior against Pierce).

Coaching wise Flip Saunders has been terrible Detroit and done terrible thigns to Detroit (For example, removing Rip as the go-to scorer, decling ppg average in postseason for 5 straight years, resulting in end of game struggles). This is a huge advantage for Boston. He's far worse than Doc. Flip's a nervous nellie and it gets to his team, even last night when they were pounding Phily early in the fourth, he just about lost his head on one bad shot. He has no composure against pressure and his team has been worse at this since he arrived and worse against pressure than normally by a Huge Margin since he's been there.

Detroit are a poor team in close games. They've been a poor team for awhile now. Billups is nowhere near as good as his reputation makes him out to be. They're offensive execution down the stretch stinks. Two years ago they started running iso plays for Tony Delk when playing Miami (again the job Flip has done there is terrible, Delk or Rip or even Chauncey down the stretch, who are you going to? A 5 year old could make that call). They couldn't score against Cleveland late in games last year in the playoffs. They're very stoppable.

Their bench is talented but the C's match up fine there. Maxiell's normal advantages are countered well by Powe/Davis. His energy, his rebounding they match up fine. Their best bench scorer is Jarvis Hayes, we're going to be sticking Posey on him. He did nothing against the Celtics in the regular season. He hasn't shown up for the playoffs this season or in the past because he doesn't play well against tough and focused defenses. He's gone, big loss for Detroit. There's nothing on that bench that really hurts us. Stuckey if he shows up and plays well could, that's it. Lindsey Hunters ball pressure for a 5 minute burst could too. It's not like we don't have other weapons either with Sam or Eddie or Tony. Powe and Glen have causede them problems on pick and rolls.

Detroit are weak on their backboards. I don't care what their regular season numbers indicate. They're weak. McDyess has done a great job here (is by far their best defensive rebounder) but they can be beaten on the boards like they were last season. Neither of their two young big men protect the defensive backboards, they're both offensive rebounders.

In this Sixers series we're seeing just how problematic and weak their offense is. Billups and Rip have to be dominant to even give them a chance to win. Rasheed has be good as well as them in order to beat top teams. KG, Pierce, and Ray can outscore them. They'll be working back up from their supporting cast. During the meetings this season their trio outscored ours 56ppg to 51ppg while Pierce averaged 15ppg on 30% shooting and Ray scored 12ppg on 40%. No way are those struggles are going to last.

..........................

I just don't think much of them. Billups is the only guy that gives us problems on the whole team. We're fairly similar outside of that with one exception - our best players are better than their best players.

Their experience doesn't amount to anything because they don't execute well late in games anymore.

Just not worried about them. Detroit have nice storylines against us but they don't match up better with us than Cleveland did.

But LeBron with a supporting cast that actually does either matches up well with us or causes us problems? That's a lot to be concerned with.