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31
Game Threads / Re: Celtics (2-1) at Cavs (1-2) ECF Game #4 5/21/18
« Last post by Boris Badenov on Today at 04:46:09 PM »
Like pretty much everyone else here...really unsettled about tonight. I can see a Cleveland win more than a Boston win. I hope I am wrong..

I feel better about tonight than I did on Sat. It's a bad combo of playing game 3 on the rd against a desperate team.

They just need to settle down and take good, smart shots.

Celts by 8. 

Book it.

You may want to rethink your choice of words there.
32
Game Threads / Re: Celtics (2-1) at Cavs (1-2) ECF Game #4 5/21/18
« Last post by smokeablount on Today at 04:45:22 PM »
Heart says we win a close one, head says we lose by 8-14 points. 
33
CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

Yeah, people always wanna trade up for top picks.  But this year even I want to do this.  I mean, we can't take on all the draft picks we have, we have 4 guards that need more minutes than we can play them, and we need a young big of which there are tons in this draft.

People are talking about Bamba the most, but I actually question his fit with his lack of passing and needing to develop a 3.  Jaren Jackson Jr looks like a better version of Bamba and he should be at 4, and Wendell Carter who could be there at 7 looks like a truly amazing fit for us. 

This year, with the amount of picks and guards we have, I don't think these fantasies are as nuts as usual.  I mean, c'mon, I've got them... they can't be nuts!

I should clarify also- I'm not firmly in the trade Rozier camp, but Danny is an asset manager.  It would be in his character to flip Rozier (and consolidate a draft asset or two) to get a highly valuable asset more likely than a player, due to our cap situation and the fact that a player of that value would clearly put us in the tax. 

But if he matched outgoing salary to acquire the #4 or #6 pick and drafted that player, he'd have him for 4-8 years and on the same timeline as Jaylen, Jayson, and Kyrie. A big 4 of the future to match our current big whatever of KI, JB, GH, JT and Al.

The core thing here is, I don't think we could replace Rozier when he plays 30-40 minutes a night.  He's an above average starting PG and the best player in a backup guard role.

The key to me is, if he only plays backup minutes and shares them with Smart, the fact is, his production or at least 75% of it should be replaceable on a vet min contract given our current stature in the NBA.  So if he starts, he's immensely valuable.  If Kyrie never gets hurt and Rozier never starts or plays 30 minutes, he doesn't add nearly as much value.

Now imagine Horford getting hurt.  How would Tatum, Baynes and Theis hold down the fort vs. Brown, Smart and Rozier?  To me, we need depth at PF/C with an athletic 2-way player as much as we need Rozier's depth at guard, and I think you can find 2-3 of those PF/C at #4 or #6.
Don't we have Rozier under control for the next 5 years? What makes you think after three years, when we are looking at having to pay this rookie that the everyone isn't going to be saying we need to trade this developing rookie because his rookie contract is up in a year and we need to trade him while his value is high? Seems I have heard this idea every year since Sullinger.

I think you're right, we very well might be saying the same thing about the #4 or #6 pick in 3-4 years, but in the meantime we'd have 4 years of rookie scale vs. 1 for Rozier, and the premise is we get a big who has all star potential, which I think Jackson and Carter could have.  If we let Smart walk this debate ends for me, but if we keep Smart, this potential trade looks enticing.
Another thing to consider is what have you done to the quality of the roster if the big doesn't work out? You also might not be getting the same production that Rozier gives you. Bigs develop slower. So that big may not even be developed by the end of year three.

It seems like most people looking to trade Rozier for a pick don't realize that not every pick works out like Rozier, Brown and Tatum. Here's some bigs that were drafted in the top six of recent drafts:

Dragan Bender
Jahlil Okafor
Willie-Cauley Stein
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Anthony Bennett
Thomas Robinson

A big pick in the top 6 could easily turn into players like those. Are any of them worth Rozier and a possible high lottery pick?

I just think, going into a Finals contending year, you have to go for it. You have an amazing backcourt and wing situation. This is now a guard and wing league. Why hurt that when going for a REAL shot at a title. We are one of if not the youngest team to ever get to a conference final or the Finals if we get there. We don't need to get younger. We have 4 picks at getting a star player, maybe a big, in next year's draft.

I say maintain status quo. Resign Smart to a bargain deal if possuble if not let him walk, look at Rozier as your future 6th man, pay him after a year and use the draft to supplement the team in 2019, hopefully after a title.

It's a reasonable take.  I don't even disagree.  To me, the choice comes down mainly to picking your poison between insurance for a Kyrie injury and maximizing your chances overall for next year, vs. insurance for a Horford injury and maximizing the value of your asset pool. 
34
Celtics Talk / Re: Anonymous Cavs Player: Danny Ainge Is A Thief
« Last post by Moranis on Today at 04:43:08 PM »
I sometimes can't believe that we have kyrie and Hayward. Its crazy cuz we couldn't get any free agents to look at us just a few years ago
you mean when Boston didn't have any cap space
35
Celtics Talk / Re: Bring back Aron Baynes?
« Last post by ETNCeltics on Today at 04:40:07 PM »
I hope we can keep Baynes, but we're going to be very good next year. A lot of veterans are going to love the prospect of playing for the Celtics next season.

Smart teams don't overpay for bench role players. With the cap and luxury tax limitations, you just can't do that.

And as much as I like what Baynes has brought to the table, it isn't just Baynes. It's Brad Stephens and what the rest of the roster did around Baynes. Let's not pretend he was some highly sought after free agent. Baynes has likely experienced the Evan Turner effect.
36
Celtics Talk / Re: Anonymous Cavs Player: Danny Ainge Is A Thief
« Last post by bknova on Today at 04:38:45 PM »
I tend to feel that Danny Ainge either overpays, or undersells on major deals, but then I scratch beneath the surface and realize that they are hugely in our favor.

He overpaid for Kyrie, I do not think you can say otherwise.  IT was hurt but so is Kyrie, so that is a wash. 

If anything he decimated the Cavs by taking Kyrie away from them.

The only thing of any real value he gave up for Kyrie was the Brooklyn pick.  So he gave up a chance at a top 3 pick for the second best lead guard in the league, with the best handles in the world, entering his prime.

yeah, you're right, he overpaid.
37
I just don't see a viable trade up option for us. Any of the picks where a guy worth trading up for is likely to be on the board is going to cost us more than Terry Rozier, and any pick we could get for Rozier isn't likely to help the team as much as he would next year.
TP
38
CB forums obsession with draft picks and trading to get high draft picks continues.

We have a championship level roster right now why would we rock that boat for MOAH rookies!

Be quiet Chilly we need to move Rozier and Irving because having 2 talented guards on the same roster will NEVAH win you a ring!! MOAH ROOKIES!!!

Yeah, people always wanna trade up for top picks.  But this year even I want to do this.  I mean, we can't take on all the draft picks we have, we have 4 guards that need more minutes than we can play them, and we need a young big of which there are tons in this draft.

People are talking about Bamba the most, but I actually question his fit with his lack of passing and needing to develop a 3.  Jaren Jackson Jr looks like a better version of Bamba and he should be at 4, and Wendell Carter who could be there at 7 looks like a truly amazing fit for us. 

This year, with the amount of picks and guards we have, I don't think these fantasies are as nuts as usual.  I mean, c'mon, I've got them... they can't be nuts!

I should clarify also- I'm not firmly in the trade Rozier camp, but Danny is an asset manager.  It would be in his character to flip Rozier (and consolidate a draft asset or two) to get a highly valuable asset more likely than a player, due to our cap situation and the fact that a player of that value would clearly put us in the tax. 

But if he matched outgoing salary to acquire the #4 or #6 pick and drafted that player, he'd have him for 4-8 years and on the same timeline as Jaylen, Jayson, and Kyrie. A big 4 of the future to match our current big whatever of KI, JB, GH, JT and Al.

The core thing here is, I don't think we could replace Rozier when he plays 30-40 minutes a night.  He's an above average starting PG and the best player in a backup guard role.

The key to me is, if he only plays backup minutes and shares them with Smart, the fact is, his production or at least 75% of it should be replaceable on a vet min contract given our current stature in the NBA.  So if he starts, he's immensely valuable.  If Kyrie never gets hurt and Rozier never starts or plays 30 minutes, he doesn't add nearly as much value.

Now imagine Horford getting hurt.  How would Tatum, Baynes and Theis hold down the fort vs. Brown, Smart and Rozier?  To me, we need depth at PF/C with an athletic 2-way player as much as we need Rozier's depth at guard, and I think you can find 2-3 of those PF/C at #4 or #6.
Don't we have Rozier under control for the next 5 years? What makes you think after three years, when we are looking at having to pay this rookie that the everyone isn't going to be saying we need to trade this developing rookie because his rookie contract is up in a year and we need to trade him while his value is high? Seems I have heard this idea every year since Sullinger.

I think you're right, we very well might be saying the same thing about the #4 or #6 pick in 3-4 years, but in the meantime we'd have 4 years of rookie scale vs. 1 for Rozier, and the premise is we get a big who has all star potential, which I think Jackson and Carter could have.  If we let Smart walk this debate ends for me, but if we keep Smart, this potential trade looks enticing.
[developAnother thing to consider is what have you done to the quality of the roster if the big doesn't work out? You also might not be getting the same production that Rozier gives you. Bigs develop slower. So that big may not even be developed by the end of year three.

It seems like most people looking to trade Rozier for a pick don't realize that not every pick works out like Rozier, Brown and Tatum. Here's some bigs that were drafted in the top six of recent drafts:

Dragan Bender
Jahlil Okafor
Willie-Cauley Stein
Cody Zeller
Alex Len
Anthony Bennett
Thomas Robinson

A big pick in the top 6 could easily turn into players like those. Are any of them worth Rozier and a possible high lottery pick?

I just think, going into a Finals contending year, you have to go for it. You have an amazing backcourt and wing situation. This is now a guard and wing league. Why hurt that when going for a REAL shot at a title. We are one of if not the youngest team to ever get to a conference final or the Finals if we get there. We don't need to get younger. We have 4 picks at getting a star player, maybe a big, in next year's draft.

I say maintain status quo. Resign Smart to a bargain deal if possuble if not let him walk, look at Rozier as your future 6th man, pay him after a year and use the draft to supplement the team in 2019, hopefully after a title.
39
If the Bulls don't like Dunn, then that's one thing. 

But based on how things look, if I were the Celtics, I'd currently be looking at these picks:

#4 Griz (could use a young PG / any talent, we have their future pick)
#6 Magic (need a PG and as much draft capital as possible)
#13 Clippers (they have 2 picks in a row and could be willing to deal, we have their future pick)
#16 Suns (could use a PG if they take Ayton, they have tons of picks, could be willing to deal)

#4 gets you Jaren Jackson Jr.
#6 gets you Wendell Carter Jr.
#13 gets you BPA or the same as #16.
#16 gets you Mitchell Robinson, Jontay Porter or BPA.

To me Wendell Carter Jr at 19 is like Horford at 21, and Jontay Porter I'm not sold on but he does seem like a poor man's Horford.  He's only 19 but is a legit 6'11" and can shoot the 3, has a nice mid-range game and some post-up ability, can pass / rack up assists, rebound, and he gets almost 2 blocks a game in under 25 mins a night.  He's a very versatile, skilled 7 footer.

He just never dunks, explodes at the rim, or drives into the paint.  Not sure how problematic these issues are, but it doesn't seem like a death sentence based on his size / skills.
40
The ideal is the kings pick donsic and he decides to stay in Europe another year
would be great for sure
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