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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by Cman on Today at 11:13:14 PM »
Pretty obvious to me that he was either too drunk to remember or is lying. This witness seems super credible. She has very little motive to lie: The amount of hate she is going to receive just to tank a judge of the opposite party and bring on another one with equal ideology? The lie detector test and the 2012 therapy notes really seals the deal for me. I also don't think this will accomplish anything given the president has most likely done worse and he still got the votes.
I disagree. I think she has plenty of motive to lie.  I'm not saying she is lying. I'm saying she has motive.

By the way. If we are to accept the therapist's notes about this as evidence.....do we get to see any other therapy notes?  Because now that the therapist has been brought in as evidence I have some questions about this therapy.  Either the therapy gets admitted as evidence or it doesn't. But I can't agree that it only selectively gets admitted.
Well in that case you must feel that all documents regarding Kavanaugh should be released and not only the selective ones the White House released, right?
I'm not sure about the ones that have to do with national security or that he already answered questions on or that they held back from asking till the last second in an effort to delay. They wanted documents numbering in the millions. Further this regards his legal advice to a president. Maybe they want every piece of legal advice he ever gave to anyone. Because that's cool right? Legal advice from lawyers should always be up for grabs, right?
You really don't see the hypocracy in your statements there? A citizen making a claim has to release all her legally private medical records to prove a point, even irrelevant records, but a man nominated for the Supreme Court doesn't have to have all his government owned legal documents released so he can be questioned about his legal standings? You really don't see the hypocracy?

I think that there are records that could have been released with no harm to national security that haven't been seen.

But, a lot of the documents are classified, and among those that aren't, there's an attorney-client privilege that the White House or George W. Bush, rather than Kavanaugh, would need to waive.
Then the White House should have released them.

Personally, I could care less what documents were released or not released. They were never going to change the mind of Senators on either side of the aisle. But I find it terribly hypocritical to demand all Ford's medical records from the therapist when not demanding all the records on Kavanaugh's legal standings.
Well what if we just take 10% of her therapy records? I mean we got tens of thousands of pages Kavanaugh's documents. We got about 4 sentences of hers.
You get what she seems pertinent the same way the White House deemed what documents were pertinent. Doesn't that make sense?
Do we get to give her 6 FBI interviews, interviews with all senators, a huge questionnaire, to examine her extensive record, and then grandstand at the end of it all that we haven't been given enough information?
And then.....what if at the exact laaaaaaasssssstttt second we find out that for months Grassley was sitting on information that she has perhaps falsely accused men in the past. 35 years ago and that those men passed lie detector tests set up by their lawyers.
Do we get to do that too?

Sure, if you are giving her a position on the Supreme Court. You do appreciate the difference, right?
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I was hoping for some awkward white boy magic with Adam Morrison.
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Off Topic / Re: Nike and Kaepernick
« Last post by Cman on Today at 11:10:31 PM »
FWIW

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/nike-stock-closes-time-high-aftermath-colin-kaepernick-ad-campaign-225007582.html

So far this year, Nike is up about 30% and the SP500 about 7%.

Analysts are expecting an earnings boost to Nike in a couple days, due to Kap ad:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/18/look-for-a-kaepernick-sales-bump-in-nikes-earnings-next-week.html

(Note, the contrarian in me thinks it might be a "sell" before the news oppty).
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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by eja117 on Today at 11:08:39 PM »
Pretty obvious to me that he was either too drunk to remember or is lying. This witness seems super credible. She has very little motive to lie: The amount of hate she is going to receive just to tank a judge of the opposite party and bring on another one with equal ideology? The lie detector test and the 2012 therapy notes really seals the deal for me. I also don't think this will accomplish anything given the president has most likely done worse and he still got the votes.
I disagree. I think she has plenty of motive to lie.  I'm not saying she is lying. I'm saying she has motive.

By the way. If we are to accept the therapist's notes about this as evidence.....do we get to see any other therapy notes?  Because now that the therapist has been brought in as evidence I have some questions about this therapy.  Either the therapy gets admitted as evidence or it doesn't. But I can't agree that it only selectively gets admitted.
Well in that case you must feel that all documents regarding Kavanaugh should be released and not only the selective ones the White House released, right?
I'm not sure about the ones that have to do with national security or that he already answered questions on or that they held back from asking till the last second in an effort to delay. They wanted documents numbering in the millions. Further this regards his legal advice to a president. Maybe they want every piece of legal advice he ever gave to anyone. Because that's cool right? Legal advice from lawyers should always be up for grabs, right?
You really don't see the hypocracy in your statements there? A citizen making a claim has to release all her legally private medical records to prove a point, even irrelevant records, but a man nominated for the Supreme Court doesn't have to have all his government owned legal documents released so he can be questioned about his legal standings? You really don't see the hypocracy?

I think that there are records that could have been released with no harm to national security that haven't been seen.

But, a lot of the documents are classified, and among those that aren't, there's an attorney-client privilege that the White House or George W. Bush, rather than Kavanaugh, would need to waive.
Then the White House should have released them.

Personally, I could care less what documents were released or not released. They were never going to change the mind of Senators on either side of the aisle. But I find it terribly hypocritical to demand all Ford's medical records from the therapist when not demanding all the records on Kavanaugh's legal standings.
Well what if we just take 10% of her therapy records? I mean we got tens of thousands of pages Kavanaugh's documents. We got about 4 sentences of hers.
You get what she seems pertinent the same way the White House deemed what documents were pertinent. Doesn't that make sense?
Do we get to give her 6 FBI interviews, interviews with all senators, a huge questionnaire, to examine her extensive record, and then grandstand at the end of it all that we haven't been given enough information?
And then.....what if at the exact laaaaaaasssssstttt second we find out that for months Grassley was sitting on information that she has perhaps falsely accused men in the past. 35 years ago and that those men passed lie detector tests set up by their lawyers.
Do we get to do that too?
  Quite honestly, none of that has anything to do with what should and shouldn't be released. My guess is the crap she is going to take from Republican Senators, the death threats she is and will receive and the way she will be treated on the internet and social media will be way more than enough to make up for how this whole debacle was handled. Maybe that will quell your need for fair treatment.
You think she'll be treated like a Bill Clinton accuser? I think she'll be treated more like Anita Hill and become a beloved icon. 
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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by nickagneta on Today at 11:07:49 PM »
Quote
At first appearances, the accuser doesn’t seem to be a crazy. Yes, she’s a California Democrat, but she seems to be a serious academic, and nobody has found any wild rhetoric yet

So, I may have been wrong here. She scrubbed her online presence to hide her politic views, but interviews and prior articles in her local paper indicate that she's marched in Anti-Trump protests, as well as marching in a "science march" while wearing a pink hat "inspired by" the pink p---- hats far left feminists wear.  She has a reputation as an outspoken liberal.

The liberal past doesn't help, but it's the attempts to hide it that make me cynical here.  As soon as a witness starts attempting to hide who they are and what their motives might potentially be, my skepticism meter is going to rise. 

That, plus her story keeps changing.  4 boys participated in the assault became "4 people plus myself" were there became 4 boys were in the house became 4 boys and another girl were there.  That, plus she can't remember the year, or the location of the house, or why she went there.  She was nearly raped and feared for her life, but she doesn't know what year of school she was in?  That just doesn't seem right to me.

I have no idea if she's lying, but her credibility is taking a hit.

How do you know she didn't just pull back from an online presence in order to avoid the inevitable hate-storm that gets thrown at people in social media?   This is a routine occurrence in today's environment.  Actors and others have dropped off of Twitter and other social media when faced with backlash over casting controversies and other far less flammable things than this.

Everything we know about this person has indicated she has been in terror of the public backlash over this.   So why should it be surprising she would recede from using social media?   That doesn't mean she is hiding who she is at all and says absolutely nothing about her credibility other than to reaffirm her previously professed fears.

Also, as far as I can tell, it isn't her story that keeps changing.  It is the reporting that has morphed as details have emerged.

No, her story has changed. The number of people has changed several times, from 4 boys in the room to 4 boys in the house to 5 people in the house to at least one other girl there. None of them have publicly backed her up.

And, I prefer witnesses who don’t attempt to hide things about their past. The celebrities who wipe their twitters do it normally because they have something to hide.
I haven't seen any evidence of her changing her story.

Then you haven’t looked. Read the Washington Post story, then read her letter, then watch the interview with her attorney where she indicated another girl was there.
I read the wapo article and her letter and they are consistent. No idea what the lawyer said but having someone else at the house also inconsistent after all she has called it a party.

Didn’t she take a polygraph?
Doesn’t she have colleagues that vouch for her having talked about this in the past?

I get that fans of Kravanaugh would like it that all of this was made up. Maybe it has all been made up. But the selective attention to some things (were there 4 or 5 people there?) and the exclusion of others (polygraph test) makes me cringe.

It's pretty amazing/disturbing watching the demonized caricature get assembled in real time over the course of just a couple of days. Something like watching people build a voodoo doll and try to wish it to life while tearing it apart.

Meanwhile, less than a week after the very first story about her letter broke, the real person has basically gone into hiding from death threats, her home address is being spread online, people on national tv are calling her insane and a liar, and there is a cottage industry of fresh smears being cranked out every couple of hours, truth optional.

All despite an amount of actual available information, both about her and the alleged assault, that's shockingly thin for our online era, which is also, naturally, used to smear her. Her life as she knew it is basically over, for the near future at least. "Why suffer through the annihilation if it’s not going to matter?” I don't have an answer.
The stories that are coming out about how she is being treated is absolutely disturbing. Hopefully when all this is done, she will be able to live a normal life. She has to be having horrible regrets of ever sending her initial anonymous letter out.
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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by Roy H. on Today at 11:05:04 PM »
Quote
"Why suffer through the annihilation if it’s not going to matter?” I don't have an answer.

You can't think of any reasons, really?  Book deals, speaking engagements, becoming a feminist icon, boosting her profile, getting better jobs... 

I don't know what her actual motivations are, but there are plenty that don't involve the truth, and plenty that do.
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Celtics Talk / Re: Jabari Bird arrested
« Last post by tazzmaniac on Today at 11:04:21 PM »
So it looks like the Celtics were aware there were recent issues with Bird, though they did not foresee something like this happening. He had even already started treatment before the incident.

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/local_coverage/2018/09/source_celtics_jabari_bird_sought_treatment_before_domestic_violence?amp=

People around Bird have been aware that he recently had been experiencing, according to one source close to him, “panic attacks and things like that. It wasn’t a long-term thing, but everyone knew. The Celtics knew there was something going on and he was being treated.”

and

“This wasn’t one of the domestic-violence situations you usually see where someone gets jealous for one thing and loses control. There was something deeper going on here with (Bird). This was a bad situation.”
i think there’s a chance he stays on the team. It seems like some medical related thing.

0% chance.  Sponsors and most fans don't want to support somebody who tortured and severely injured his girlfriend.
It's not like Bird is star level talent.  He can be easily replaced with someone that doesn't have that baggage.   
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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by nickagneta on Today at 11:02:20 PM »
Pretty obvious to me that he was either too drunk to remember or is lying. This witness seems super credible. She has very little motive to lie: The amount of hate she is going to receive just to tank a judge of the opposite party and bring on another one with equal ideology? The lie detector test and the 2012 therapy notes really seals the deal for me. I also don't think this will accomplish anything given the president has most likely done worse and he still got the votes.
I disagree. I think she has plenty of motive to lie.  I'm not saying she is lying. I'm saying she has motive.

By the way. If we are to accept the therapist's notes about this as evidence.....do we get to see any other therapy notes?  Because now that the therapist has been brought in as evidence I have some questions about this therapy.  Either the therapy gets admitted as evidence or it doesn't. But I can't agree that it only selectively gets admitted.
Well in that case you must feel that all documents regarding Kavanaugh should be released and not only the selective ones the White House released, right?
I'm not sure about the ones that have to do with national security or that he already answered questions on or that they held back from asking till the last second in an effort to delay. They wanted documents numbering in the millions. Further this regards his legal advice to a president. Maybe they want every piece of legal advice he ever gave to anyone. Because that's cool right? Legal advice from lawyers should always be up for grabs, right?
You really don't see the hypocracy in your statements there? A citizen making a claim has to release all her legally private medical records to prove a point, even irrelevant records, but a man nominated for the Supreme Court doesn't have to have all his government owned legal documents released so he can be questioned about his legal standings? You really don't see the hypocracy?

I think that there are records that could have been released with no harm to national security that haven't been seen.

But, a lot of the documents are classified, and among those that aren't, there's an attorney-client privilege that the White House or George W. Bush, rather than Kavanaugh, would need to waive.
Then the White House should have released them.

Personally, I could care less what documents were released or not released. They were never going to change the mind of Senators on either side of the aisle. But I find it terribly hypocritical to demand all Ford's medical records from the therapist when not demanding all the records on Kavanaugh's legal standings.
Well what if we just take 10% of her therapy records? I mean we got tens of thousands of pages Kavanaugh's documents. We got about 4 sentences of hers.
You get what she seems pertinent the same way the White House deemed what documents were pertinent. Doesn't that make sense?
Do we get to give her 6 FBI interviews, interviews with all senators, a huge questionnaire, to examine her extensive record, and then grandstand at the end of it all that we haven't been given enough information?
And then.....what if at the exact laaaaaaasssssstttt second we find out that for months Grassley was sitting on information that she has perhaps falsely accused men in the past. 35 years ago and that those men passed lie detector tests set up by their lawyers.
Do we get to do that too?
  Quite honestly, none of that has anything to do with what should and shouldn't be released. My guess is the crap she is going to take from Republican Senators, the death threats she is and will receive and the way she will be treated on the internet and social media will be way more than enough to make up for how this whole debacle was handled. Maybe that will quell your need for fair treatment.
9
Quote
At first appearances, the accuser doesn’t seem to be a crazy. Yes, she’s a California Democrat, but she seems to be a serious academic, and nobody has found any wild rhetoric yet

So, I may have been wrong here. She scrubbed her online presence to hide her politic views, but interviews and prior articles in her local paper indicate that she's marched in Anti-Trump protests, as well as marching in a "science march" while wearing a pink hat "inspired by" the pink p---- hats far left feminists wear.  She has a reputation as an outspoken liberal.

The liberal past doesn't help, but it's the attempts to hide it that make me cynical here.  As soon as a witness starts attempting to hide who they are and what their motives might potentially be, my skepticism meter is going to rise. 

That, plus her story keeps changing.  4 boys participated in the assault became "4 people plus myself" were there became 4 boys were in the house became 4 boys and another girl were there.  That, plus she can't remember the year, or the location of the house, or why she went there.  She was nearly raped and feared for her life, but she doesn't know what year of school she was in?  That just doesn't seem right to me.

I have no idea if she's lying, but her credibility is taking a hit.

How do you know she didn't just pull back from an online presence in order to avoid the inevitable hate-storm that gets thrown at people in social media?   This is a routine occurrence in today's environment.  Actors and others have dropped off of Twitter and other social media when faced with backlash over casting controversies and other far less flammable things than this.

Everything we know about this person has indicated she has been in terror of the public backlash over this.   So why should it be surprising she would recede from using social media?   That doesn't mean she is hiding who she is at all and says absolutely nothing about her credibility other than to reaffirm her previously professed fears.

Also, as far as I can tell, it isn't her story that keeps changing.  It is the reporting that has morphed as details have emerged.

No, her story has changed. The number of people has changed several times, from 4 boys in the room to 4 boys in the house to 5 people in the house to at least one other girl there. None of them have publicly backed her up.

And, I prefer witnesses who don’t attempt to hide things about their past. The celebrities who wipe their twitters do it normally because they have something to hide.
I haven't seen any evidence of her changing her story.

Then you haven’t looked. Read the Washington Post story, then read her letter, then watch the interview with her attorney where she indicated another girl was there.
I read the wapo article and her letter and they are consistent. No idea what the lawyer said but having someone else at the house also inconsistent after all she has called it a party.

Didn’t she take a polygraph?
Doesn’t she have colleagues that vouch for her having talked about this in the past?

I get that fans of Kravanaugh would like it that all of this was made up. Maybe it has all been made up. But the selective attention to some things (were there 4 or 5 people there?) and the exclusion of others (polygraph test) makes me cringe.

It's pretty amazing/disturbing watching the demonized caricature get assembled in real time over the course of just a couple of days. Something like watching people build a voodoo doll and try to wish it to life while tearing it apart.

Meanwhile, less than a week after the very first story about her letter broke, the real person has basically gone into hiding from death threats, her home address is being spread online, people on national tv are calling her insane and a liar, and there is a cottage industry of fresh smears being cranked out every couple of hours, truth optional.

All despite an amount of actual available information, both about her and the alleged assault, that's shockingly thin for our online era, which is also, naturally, used to smear her. Her life as she knew it is basically over, for the near future at least. "Why suffer through the annihilation if it’s not going to matter?” I don't have an answer.
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Current Events / Political Discussion / Re: Justice Kennedy retiring
« Last post by eja117 on Today at 10:56:23 PM »
Pretty obvious to me that he was either too drunk to remember or is lying. This witness seems super credible. She has very little motive to lie: The amount of hate she is going to receive just to tank a judge of the opposite party and bring on another one with equal ideology? The lie detector test and the 2012 therapy notes really seals the deal for me. I also don't think this will accomplish anything given the president has most likely done worse and he still got the votes.
I disagree. I think she has plenty of motive to lie.  I'm not saying she is lying. I'm saying she has motive.

By the way. If we are to accept the therapist's notes about this as evidence.....do we get to see any other therapy notes?  Because now that the therapist has been brought in as evidence I have some questions about this therapy.  Either the therapy gets admitted as evidence or it doesn't. But I can't agree that it only selectively gets admitted.
Well in that case you must feel that all documents regarding Kavanaugh should be released and not only the selective ones the White House released, right?
I'm not sure about the ones that have to do with national security or that he already answered questions on or that they held back from asking till the last second in an effort to delay. They wanted documents numbering in the millions. Further this regards his legal advice to a president. Maybe they want every piece of legal advice he ever gave to anyone. Because that's cool right? Legal advice from lawyers should always be up for grabs, right?
You really don't see the hypocracy in your statements there? A citizen making a claim has to release all her legally private medical records to prove a point, even irrelevant records, but a man nominated for the Supreme Court doesn't have to have all his government owned legal documents released so he can be questioned about his legal standings? You really don't see the hypocracy?

I think that there are records that could have been released with no harm to national security that haven't been seen.

But, a lot of the documents are classified, and among those that aren't, there's an attorney-client privilege that the White House or George W. Bush, rather than Kavanaugh, would need to waive.
Then the White House should have released them.

Personally, I could care less what documents were released or not released. They were never going to change the mind of Senators on either side of the aisle. But I find it terribly hypocritical to demand all Ford's medical records from the therapist when not demanding all the records on Kavanaugh's legal standings.
Well what if we just take 10% of her therapy records? I mean we got tens of thousands of pages Kavanaugh's documents. We got about 4 sentences of hers.
You get what she seems pertinent the same way the White House deemed what documents were pertinent. Doesn't that make sense?
Do we get to give her 6 FBI interviews, interviews with all senators, a huge questionnaire, to examine her extensive record, and then grandstand at the end of it all that we haven't been given enough information?
And then.....what if at the exact laaaaaaasssssstttt second we find out that for months Grassley was sitting on information that she has perhaps falsely accused men in the past. 35 years ago and that those men passed lie detector tests set up by their lawyers.
Do we get to do that too?
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