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Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: BringToughnessBack on July 12, 2018, 12:55:21 PM

Title: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: BringToughnessBack on July 12, 2018, 12:55:21 PM
Interesting article just came out and supposedly the Cavs could have moved up to 3rd and brought in a few great players.

What does everyone think? I think this will come back to haunt them if true down the road. Breaks my heart! :)

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/7/12/17564054/nba-draft-rumor-cavs-turned-down-chance-to-draft-luka-doncic-kent-bazemore
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Donoghus on July 12, 2018, 12:58:06 PM
I think Sexton will turn out pretty well for them. 

However, if Doncic turns into the player that many expect him to be & #8/Bazemore was the cost, then, I think the Cavs will ultimately rue passing on that.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: CelticsElite on July 12, 2018, 01:11:31 PM
Yes. Sexton ceiling is a career backup at best. He has no special qualities. He peaked during a few games in college and that's it
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: ThaPreacher on July 12, 2018, 01:13:04 PM
I think Sexton will turn out pretty well for them. 

However, if Doncic turns into the player that many expect him to be & #8/Bazemore was the cost, then, I think the Cavs will ultimately rue passing on that.

Crazy times! Lose Lebron and miss out on a franchise player! Wow. Cleveland.
Bazemore, a short time ago was considered to be worth every bit of his contract.
Sometimes, personnel changes and players struggle. Boston should have taken on that contract and moved up! Doncic might be the real deal!
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: CelticsElite on July 12, 2018, 01:15:31 PM
Wendell Carter is looking amazing in summer league. Cav fans will be tormented for decades when sexton becomes Jarrett jack 2.0 and Carter is  horford
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Fafnir on July 12, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Given that trade doesn't work without other pieces I'm betting the deal wasn't just taking on a bit of extra money to move up 5 spots. Probably more salary commitment and some picks were also asked of Cleveland.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: action781 on July 12, 2018, 01:26:46 PM
We won't know if they blew it until 5 years from now.  Certainly they didn't blow it as an opportunity because the article says that Sexton was their guy and you'd obviously rather just Sexton at #8 pick salary than Sexton at #3 pick salary + Bazemore.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: GreenShooter on July 12, 2018, 01:37:40 PM
Yes. Sexton ceiling is a career backup at best. He has no special qualities. He peaked during a few games in college and that's it
I think you are underrating Sexton. He's a score first point guard. A poor man's Kyrie, if you will, though a much more explosive athlete. I don't think he's a career back-up. He had no help on that 'Bama team. He won't have any on Cleveland either, if they trade Love, so it may be a while until the dust settles on this kid.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Monkhouse on July 12, 2018, 01:45:32 PM
It depends on what they had to give up... But yes... I think Doncic or Bagley will end up as the best players in this draft, with Knox, and a healthy MPJ followed thereafter. Sexton is still a fine player, and he has some moxie to his game, but if you have to get a game changer in Doncic, I think you have to do it.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: saltlover on July 12, 2018, 01:48:02 PM
I like Sexton very much.  He’s my non-Donic vote for ROY in that thread.  But any deal in which they could have moved up to get Doncic for taking on 2019 salary (since the 2018 salary would have been largely a wash) seems like one that should have been pounced on.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Moranis on July 12, 2018, 01:57:26 PM
The only way to make the salaries make sense is if the Hawks were asking for Love.  They certainly wouldn't have wanted anyone like Smith, Thompson, etc. and they had no real way to get the salaries to make sense without Love (or in a deal that made sense for the Hawks, like why would they move back 5 spots for someone like Jordan Clarkson and filler).
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: PickNRoll on July 12, 2018, 02:06:01 PM
Nope.  If anything they'll be kicking themselves for not moving up to take Wendell Carter or staying put and selecting Gilgeous-Alexander.  Doncic is a role player.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: celticsclay on July 12, 2018, 02:29:19 PM
It sounds like the Cavs are adamant about keeping Love. Do people believe this?
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Moranis on July 12, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
It sounds like the Cavs are adamant about keeping Love. Do people believe this?
They aren't adamant.  They just aren't going to give him away.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Donoghus on July 12, 2018, 02:37:55 PM
It sounds like the Cavs are adamant about keeping Love. Do people believe this?

Its a good way to become a treadmill team which is exactly where you want to be in today's NBA landscape.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: tonydelk on July 12, 2018, 02:42:21 PM
Wendell Carter is looking amazing in summer league. Cav fans will be tormented for decades when sexton becomes Jarrett jack 2.0 and Carter is  horford

So agree.  I wanted Carter so [dang] bad and would have loved him if we had gotten the laker pick.  He was the perfect addition to this team.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: timpiker on July 12, 2018, 08:36:34 PM
It sounds like the Cavs are adamant about keeping Love. Do people believe this?
About as much as I believe they’re adamant about keeping Korber.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 12, 2018, 09:07:45 PM
Until Doncic plays NBA minutes it is too soon to judge.   I recall the same people telling me Dragan Bender was going to be a force in the league and Darko.

I think Doncic is different, though, but the Eurohype here is sickening.   How is it none of these experts were high on Theis who can play quite well?
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: timpiker on July 15, 2018, 12:17:55 PM
I think they blew it because I think Doncic will be extremely good - we'll see.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: gouki88 on July 15, 2018, 01:21:16 PM
Yes. Sexton ceiling is a career backup at best. He has no special qualities. He peaked during a few games in college and that's it
Lol, this is just incredibly untrue. He's a pretty elite athlete and scorer, even with a shaky jumpshot. Dismissing him averaging 19/4/4 over a college season as "a few games" is pretty weird
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: ederson on July 15, 2018, 02:08:50 PM
Until Doncic plays NBA minutes it is too soon to judge.   I recall the same people telling me Dragan Bender was going to be a force in the league and Darko.

I think Doncic is different, though, but the Eurohype here is sickening.   How is it none of these experts were high on Theis who can play quite well?

Apples and oranges....
Theis was a guy playing in German league without impressing anyone while Doncic  lead real Madrid to Spanish and euroleague titles.

But yeah... Bender received unreal hype for a player who didn't say any real playtime in two years for a average team and until Doncic  plays an actual nba game and proves his talent  he is not better than anyone.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: green_bballers13 on July 15, 2018, 02:45:32 PM
It's way too early to say that Sexton is a career backup. I've only watched a little of his highlights from 'Bama and this summer league, but he has impressed me. I think he has a good handle and appears to be a poised floor general.

I'm less confident about Doncic. I still have no idea how his athleticism will translate to the NBA.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Sophomore on July 15, 2018, 04:21:27 PM
Until Doncic plays NBA minutes it is too soon to judge.   I recall the same people telling me Dragan Bender was going to be a force in the league and Darko.

I think Doncic is different, though, but the Eurohype here is sickening.   How is it none of these experts were high on Theis who can play quite well?

Apples and oranges....
Theis was a guy playing in German league without impressing anyone while Doncic  lead real Madrid to Spanish and euroleague titles.

But yeah... Bender received unreal hype for a player who didn't say any real playtime in two years for a average team and until Doncic  plays an actual nba game and proves his talent  he is not better than anyone.

Theis was defensive player of the year in Germany.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: GetLucky on July 15, 2018, 04:22:36 PM
I think Doncic ends up being the second best player in this draft.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: smokeablount on July 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
Wendell Carter is looking amazing in summer league. Cav fans will be tormented for decades when sexton becomes Jarrett jack 2.0 and Carter is  horford

So agree.  I wanted Carter so [dang] bad and would have loved him if we had gotten the laker pick.  He was the perfect addition to this team.

Yep, for months I was the conductor of the “trade Rozier, Sac pick, etc to grab Carter Jr” train.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: greece66 on July 15, 2018, 04:42:06 PM
The article says:

" at the cost of their No. 8 pick, matching salary necessary to absorb Kent Bazemore’s bloated contract,  and perhaps another asset."

It all depends on what that vaguely phrased "other asset" was.

Anyway, I assume lots of teams were making offers and the Hawks were willing to sell at a relatively low price. The Cavs were just unlucky (regardless of whom they would have drafted , it's rare that a nr 3 pick gets traded for a bargain price).
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 15, 2018, 04:49:34 PM
A
Quote
pples and oranges....
Theis was a guy playing in German league without impressing anyone while Doncic  lead real Madrid to Spanish and euroleague titles.

Hype is hype until backed up on the NBA court with play.

Quote
But yeah... Bender received unreal hype for a player who didn't say any real playtime in two years for a average team and until Doncic  plays an actual nba game and proves his talent  he is not better than anyone.


That was my point exactly.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Moranis on July 15, 2018, 08:34:57 PM
The article says:

" at the cost of their No. 8 pick, matching salary necessary to absorb Kent Bazemore’s bloated contract,  and perhaps another asset."

It all depends on what that vaguely phrased "other asset" was.

Anyway, I assume lots of teams were making offers and the Hawks were willing to sell at a relatively low price. The Cavs were just unlucky (regardless of whom they would have drafted , it's rare that a nr 3 pick gets traded for a bargain price).
Unless the Hawks were taking on Smith, Thompson, Hill, or Clarkson it would have been very hard to match salaries without including Love or basically all of the Cavs young guys (Nance, Osman, Zizic).  That is why it is hard to put stock in these things as without knowing what the Hawks were asking for you have no real way to determine if not taking the trade was a good idea.  I don't think I would have traded Love and 8 for Bazemore and 3, as an example.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Surferdad on July 15, 2018, 08:49:31 PM
I think Doncic ends up being the second best player in this draft.
Agreed. He will have a better career than Trae Young.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: ederson on July 19, 2018, 03:13:37 AM
Until Doncic plays NBA minutes it is too soon to judge.   I recall the same people telling me Dragan Bender was going to be a force in the league and Darko.

I think Doncic is different, though, but the Eurohype here is sickening.   How is it none of these experts were high on Theis who can play quite well?

Apples and oranges....
Theis was a guy playing in German league without impressing anyone while Doncic  lead real Madrid to Spanish and euroleague titles.

But yeah... Bender received unreal hype for a player who didn't say any real playtime in two years for a average team and until Doncic  plays an actual nba game and proves his talent  he is not better than anyone.

Theis was defensive player of the year in Germany.

So what?  Who told you that the german league is strong enough so awards like this one really mean anything?
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: gouki88 on July 19, 2018, 06:40:00 AM
Until Doncic plays NBA minutes it is too soon to judge.   I recall the same people telling me Dragan Bender was going to be a force in the league and Darko.

I think Doncic is different, though, but the Eurohype here is sickening.   How is it none of these experts were high on Theis who can play quite well?

Apples and oranges....
Theis was a guy playing in German league without impressing anyone while Doncic  lead real Madrid to Spanish and euroleague titles.

But yeah... Bender received unreal hype for a player who didn't say any real playtime in two years for a average team and until Doncic  plays an actual nba game and proves his talent  he is not better than anyone.

Theis was defensive player of the year in Germany.

So what?  Who told you that the german league is strong enough so awards like this one really mean anything?
Yeah, whereas Luka Doncic was arguably the best player not on American soil at the age of 18-19. Not comparable whatsoever
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Celtics4ever on July 19, 2018, 07:09:34 AM
Quote
Yeah, whereas Luka Doncic was arguably the best player not on American soil at the age of 18-19. Not comparable whatsoever

We are finally going to get to see him prove it.   We all know a lot of Euros can play.   But some here act like the leagues over there are indicative that they will be guaranteed success.  It does not our amateur college players beat these guys for years.   Some college teams still goes overseas for games and do quite well and these are not the Olympic level teams

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2014/8/18/6030717/college-basketball-teams-overseas-kentucky-michigan

That being said, they have produced quite a few good players and we all know international basketball has made long strides.

But when we see him play in the NBA we will see what he is made of, is he a good enough athlete, can he get his shot off against elite athletes with length.   It is the top league, I think he will do ok, but I am not sold he is a lock as a star until he shows me he can.

Tons of college players fail in the NBA, the same is true for Euros.  This anoitment before he plays is silly.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: greece66 on July 19, 2018, 08:26:07 AM
I saw rumours that Atlanta wants to move Shroeder. If true, Hawks are betting the house on Trae Young.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: Moranis on July 19, 2018, 10:11:49 AM
I saw rumours that Atlanta wants to move Shroeder. If true, Hawks are betting the house on Trae Young.
will likely get traded for Melo in the next day or say.  Hawks would then waive Melo.
Title: Re: Did Cavs blow it turning down Doncic?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on July 19, 2018, 10:23:08 AM
Quote
Yeah, whereas Luka Doncic was arguably the best player not on American soil at the age of 18-19. Not comparable whatsoever

We are finally going to get to see him prove it.   We all know a lot of Euros can play.   But some here act like the leagues over there are indicative that they will be guaranteed success.  It does not our amateur college players beat these guys for years.   Some college teams still goes overseas for games and do quite well and these are not the Olympic level teams

https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2014/8/18/6030717/college-basketball-teams-overseas-kentucky-michigan

That being said, they have produced quite a few good players and we all know international basketball has made long strides.

But when we see him play in the NBA we will see what he is made of, is he a good enough athlete, can he get his shot off against elite athletes with length.   It is the top league, I think he will do ok, but I am not sold he is a lock as a star until he shows me he can.

Tons of college players fail in the NBA, the same is true for Euros.  This anoitment before he plays is silly.
wait a minute! are you actually asking that we posters on CB wait and see a player prior to pronouncing a final and definitive statement on a 19 year old player? you must be new here.