CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: ScoobyDoo on June 16, 2018, 01:32:02 PM
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We could try to trade for Leonard or LeBron I suppose. But the Tatum, Hayward, Brown trio of wings with Horford and Irving as the Book ends is pretty incredible. Tatum just looked like a future got to guy when it mattered most in the playoffs this year. Brown nearly averaged 20 a night in the playoffs this post season and seems like he’s just starting to truly sniff his potential as well. Both of these guys are 21 or under. That’s ridiculous. The biggest glaring move I think we need to make is find the one big that can run with Tatum and Brown for the next 10-12 years as Horford truly starts slowing down in 2-3 years. We need an alpha big (PF or Center who will be as good at his position as Brown and Tatum currrently project to be at theirs. That creates a potential 10 year championship contention window, given reasonably good health.
Therefore, rather than chase Leonard or LeBron, which feel wing redundant, i’d Rather choose to consolidate players and picks to try and move up in the draft to pick one of Bagley, Carter, Jackson or Bamba. All of these guys could be future all stars, possibly all pros as their ceilings.
You’d have to hit it right but that’s always the game.
* Could Bamba be Gobert like defensively?
* Could Carter or Jackson be an Al Horford?
* Could Bagley be a Chris Bosh with a mean streak?...
So, the move i’d Like to do is something like some combination of Rozier, Smart, Morris, Yabusele, the Sacto pick (also likely to be a top 5 pick next year) the Memphis pick, the Clipper pick and our picks to Memphis for the 4th and a re-signed Tyreke Evans (if he is probably leaving anyway)
Basically a consolidation trade to move up in this draft for of these promising young bigs. I suppose you could include Brown if you had and then keep the Sacto pick to draft his replacement next year (hopefully...) but i’d Prefer not to.
How good would this team be, assuming you choice of big chosen was as good as the Tatum/Brown selection?
Horford/Baynes (Bamba or Bagley)
Tatum/Theis (Jackson or Carter)
Hayward/Morris or Ojeleye
Brown/Tyreke Evans
Irving/Smart or Rozier
If I’m Memphis I would do that deal (in some shape or form). Gasoline is getting old quickly and Conley isn’t a spring chicken either - both have had injuries. What they need is some young vets (Smart, Rozier, Morris, etc) to help them compete a bit more now and then a boat load of draft picks, including their own back to start reloading for their rebuild. We can give them both in some type of combination. I know they’re throwing the Chandler thing out there but not sure how many takers they get on rhT.
For us, the one thing we need most, the glaring need, is a young alpha big.
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Agreed that a dominant big is the logical next area of need but watch out for the overpay. Having these assets allows for whiffs and spending almost everything for one guy (not sure if you're proposing that or not) is out of the question.
Danny didn't get here by dumping everything for 1 player (although the near trade for Winslow would have been tough). He's going to manage these resources very wisely.
If 1 high pick and 1 Celtics 1st, plus Smart/Rozier gets it done, then sure. Otherwise I'm all for rehabbing Nerlens on the cheap.
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I would like to see the 76ers bring back amir johnson.
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I don’t expect much this offseason.
Probably just Brown+fillers for Kawhi, Kyrie+fillers to NYK three-way for LeBron, and Tatum/Horford for Davis.
Pretty quiet.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
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I’m with you in wanting to see the team get a big we can groom to take over from Al a few years from now. Not sure that offer to Memphis gets it done though. It’s a good number of picks, but they’re next year and potentially not great value - Sacto could easily be mid-late lottery, the others even later in the draft. They might get an offer from someone in the 6-10 range this year. It’s also being reported that they’re trying to move the pick to someone willing to take the awful Parsons contract off their hands. Seems like a strange approach, but might be the way they go.
I think our best shot is finding a big who slides later who the team thinks hey can groom over a few years - maybe Williams. A future All-Star would, of course, be great. But if the rest of the team develops as it should, solid starter with plus defense and at least a decent midrange game should be plenty.
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That seems like an awful lot to get the 4th pick especially with the Kings pick likely to be right around that area next year.
I used to think it was essential to find a Horford replacement to ensure long term success, but now I’m not so sure.
I think Tatum is going to start seeing more time at the 4 which means less playing time left for the rest of our bigs. Horford’s minutes could go down to around 25 per game, and it could help keep him fresher for the playoffs as he approaches his mid 30’s and beyond. If we use our exceptions wisely like we did this year with Baynes we should be in good shape. The great news is Horford now really is our 5th option so we don’t need him to be a big scorer as long as he keeps doing the other things well. It’s a recipe that could work for maybe 5 years as long as we still have Brown, Tatum, Hayward, and Irving or some other combination of elite guards/wings.
There is also a good article on ESPN now that talks about being careful taking a big at the top of the draft with the way the game has changed.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
What was it, 7 this year before the lottery?
If Memphis truly are healthy then they jump Sac, I reckon Chicago will as well, they did not look bad at the end of the year. That would make them top 5. Only people at risk of falling behind them are new York and brooklyn. Brooklyn are on the steady upwards trajectory to purgatory for now.
I guess I also expect Sac to get worse this coming year as they realise the older pieces aren't getting them to the playoffs and they give their young guys more playing time
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
it was top 2 this year. The ranking when the season ended is meaningless because there is a lottery that determines draft order that your conveniently ignoring lol
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"Only" threw me off. I thought this was going to be something like a re-sign Smart thread, not turn the roster upside down for a rookie.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
it was top 2 this year. The ranking when the season ended is meaningless because there is a lottery that determines draft order that your conveniently ignoring lol
The ranking at the end of the season isn’t “meaningless”. It tells you a lot about the team’s odds of ending up with a top pick. Sacramento probably will be better next year than it was this year. The chances of getting a top five pick if that happens are not great.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
What was it, 7 this year before the lottery?
If Memphis truly are healthy then they jump Sac, I reckon Chicago will as well, they did not look bad at the end of the year. That would make them top 5. Only people at risk of falling behind them are new York and brooklyn. Brooklyn are on the steady upwards trajectory to purgatory for now.
I guess I also expect Sac to get worse this coming year as they realise the older pieces aren't getting them to the playoffs and they give their young guys more playing time
They were 7th this season when they had an incentive to tank. Next season they have no incentive to tank. Maybe they're bottom 5 at the all-star game but then other teams are going to start tanking. As for their older pieces (Hill, Randolph, Temple, Koufos), they really didn't contribute all that much. If the Kings draft Ayton or Doncic, they should provide immediate contributions.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
What was it, 7 this year before the lottery?
If Memphis truly are healthy then they jump Sac, I reckon Chicago will as well, they did not look bad at the end of the year. That would make them top 5. Only people at risk of falling behind them are new York and brooklyn. Brooklyn are on the steady upwards trajectory to purgatory for now.
I guess I also expect Sac to get worse this coming year as they realise the older pieces aren't getting them to the playoffs and they give their young guys more playing time
They were 7th this season when they had an incentive to tank. Next season they have no incentive to tank. Maybe they're bottom 5 at the all-star game but then other teams are going to start tanking. As for their older pieces (Hill, Randolph, Temple, Koufos), they really didn't contribute all that much. If the Kings draft Ayton or Doncic, they should provide immediate contributions.
it really doesn't matter. The kings pick has little to no trade value because no GM is going to give up anything valuable for a pick that might end up conveying at 27
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
What was it, 7 this year before the lottery?
If Memphis truly are healthy then they jump Sac, I reckon Chicago will as well, they did not look bad at the end of the year. That would make them top 5. Only people at risk of falling behind them are new York and brooklyn. Brooklyn are on the steady upwards trajectory to purgatory for now.
I guess I also expect Sac to get worse this coming year as they realise the older pieces aren't getting them to the playoffs and they give their young guys more playing time
They were 7th this season when they had an incentive to tank. Next season they have no incentive to tank. Maybe they're bottom 5 at the all-star game but then other teams are going to start tanking. As for their older pieces (Hill, Randolph, Temple, Koufos), they really didn't contribute all that much. If the Kings draft Ayton or Doncic, they should provide immediate contributions.
it really doesn't matter. The kings pick has little to no trade value because no GM is going to give up anything valuable for a pick that might end up conveying at 27
That's ridiculous. Danny did.
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Why are people expecting the Sac pick to be top five next year when it wasn’t top five this year? Makes no sense.
Second, who the heck knows about 10-12 years. We’re trying to win in the next 3-4 years with kyrie and Hayward and Al. We don’t need more youth.
What was it, 7 this year before the lottery?
If Memphis truly are healthy then they jump Sac, I reckon Chicago will as well, they did not look bad at the end of the year. That would make them top 5. Only people at risk of falling behind them are new York and brooklyn. Brooklyn are on the steady upwards trajectory to purgatory for now.
I guess I also expect Sac to get worse this coming year as they realise the older pieces aren't getting them to the playoffs and they give their young guys more playing time
They were 7th this season when they had an incentive to tank. Next season they have no incentive to tank. Maybe they're bottom 5 at the all-star game but then other teams are going to start tanking. As for their older pieces (Hill, Randolph, Temple, Koufos), they really didn't contribute all that much. If the Kings draft Ayton or Doncic, they should provide immediate contributions.
They’ll still stink even though they have no incentive to tank.
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I didn’t say we throw everything i mentioned in for the deal just “some combination of” the pieces I listed. So I don’t look at that as turning the roster upside down. It could be a lesser deal to move up to the 8-10 range the 10-15 range or the 18-22 range too. How is trading Rozier ( whose minutes likely decrease dramatically with Irving and Hayward back and who, if we sign Irving long term, becomes very redundant. We aren’t going to be able to pay him. Morris? Way less valuable than a potential all star young big. Draft picks? We don’t need them. We need inside depth and veteran talent at this point.
Horford, Tatum, Hayward, Brown and Irving are going to dominate the minutes. Horford will be getting older, need to find a good young replacement now so he’s ready in 2-3 years.
Sacramento is terrible. They were top two this past year and most likely will be again. While they may get a nice player this year so will every other team that blew as much as they did last year. I’d be very surprised if they shocked the world.
We should be just as focused now, on the post Horford years by pairing a very good young big with Tatum and Brown so we can not only have a good short term run now but seemlessly continue to compete long term as well. a consolidation trade for that young big is the right move.
Making this type of move would be predicated on believing the guy you’re targeting by moving up has a real shot at being special. I think each of the four bigs I listed have a shot at that for different reasons.
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Another way to look at it. If, say, Bamba pans out as a Gobert level center how good does a Bamba, Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Irving unit look - and he’s cost controlled for the next 3-4 years as well.
Fred Roberts > Fully agree with you, if the price is too much you default trying to swing a Nerlens Noel or something on the cheap. I’d love to bring Nerlens back home for some home cooking rehab with Stevens.
I’d actually like to do that and Swing a deal for one of these young bigs. Hey, it could be Mitchell Robinson at 22 or something. Much lower price as far as moving up and he could work. But I do think he’ll be gone where we pick now...