CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticsElite on June 11, 2018, 03:51:49 PM
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23761997/warriors-kevin-durant-picture-retiring-3
What a quitter. Says he doesn’t care about records or anything. Just wanted his easy-mode ring and to pretend that means he’s the best player ever
"This game, your craft, you have to continue studying it," said Durant. "No matter how much you enjoy it, nobody wants to be in school that long. I know I don't. At some point, you have to be ready to graduate. Thirty-five, that's just a number in my mind."
"Because it's not about [the record]," Durant said. "I can leave the game knowing I did everything I wanted to do, my way, on my terms. That's how I want to leave the game. And if I happen to have all these accolades and these accomplishments, then that's cool. If not, I'm still cool.
"So I don't think that's going to define me as a player. It's a cool accomplishment to be up there with the greats and to be considered someone who can potentially chase that, or beat that, but I'm not playing for that."
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
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To each their own. It’s his career. I’ll never consider him an all-time great, but who cares? He’ll have hundreds of millions of dollars, multiple rings, and will be in the HOF.
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The game is a grind and staying on top performing is a lot of work and pressure. I'd rather a guy retire early than not have his heart into it hanging around just simply collecting checks. We seen a bunch of guys bust their butts in contract years just for the guaranteed contract then stop giving effort. KD is at least not that.
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Sounds fine to me. He's already been in the league 11 years and if he retired tomorrow he'd be a first ballot HoF'er. 5 more years gets him into the top ten of all time scoring. I can't say I hold it against a person who just wants to enjoy their life.
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Plays 15+ years at an elite level, wins 2+ Finals MVP and 2+ championships as the best player on the best team in the league, wins 1+ MVP award, makes hundreds of millions of dollars ...
yeah, totally a quitter.
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What a quitter. Says he doesn’t care about records or anything.
It's usually ppl who care too much that speak this way.
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Durant is an all-time great already. He doesn't have anything left to prove.
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It sounds like a very self aware position to take. If anything it makes me think more of him, not less.
I'll be curious to see if he still feels that way as the end gets closer. 5 years is still a ways away, but I think when the end is near some guys rightly cling to playing at the highest level until they've squeezed every last drop out of their playing career. Others though go out like Barry Sanders and leave plenty of good years on the table to pursue other interests.
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How much longer do people expect him to play for? A lot of players fall apart physically before the age of 35 and fall off a cliff. Bird and Russell each played 13 years for example. To me he sounds pretty reasonable. He's also suffered his share of serious injuries in the past, and is not the most physically sturdy player in the league. Not everyone can play full speed at age 33-35 like Lebron does. That's one thing Lebron has over most of the other greats, longevity and physical endurance with age.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
You absolutely despised KG? Lol.
I don’t really care what Durant does. At the time I was bummed he didn’t sign with us, but in hindsight he did us a favor. His legacy will never live up to his talent. Emptiest multiple Finals-MVP recipient ever.
I don’t know if Isaiah and Durant could have hung banners here, but I’m confident Kyrie and Hayward can.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
But you like Lebron? His phoniness and whinning doesn't bother you?
I respect Lebron as an all-time great player, but he's a phony as a leader, throws his teammates under the bus, never admits any blame for anything, intimidates his teammates and refs, whines after almost every play, and forces the front offices of his teams into bad decisions.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
But you like Lebron? His phoniness and whinning doesn't bother you?
I respect Lebron as an all-time great player, but he's a phony as a leader, throws his teammates under the bus, never admits any blame for anything, intimidates his teammates and refs, whines after almost every play, and forces the front offices of his teams into bad decisions.
everyone whines. You wouldn't like anyone if you didn't like whiners. James doesn't come off as phoney to me. I think that is exactly who he is. He isn't a sociopath like KD or a fake tough guy bully like KG.
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The game is a grind and staying on top performing is a lot of work and pressure. I'd rather a guy retire early than not have his heart into it hanging around just simply collecting checks. We seen a bunch of guys bust their butts in contract years just for the guaranteed contract then stop giving effort. KD is at least not that.
TP.
KD uncensored - respect.
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The game is a grind and staying on top performing is a lot of work and pressure. I'd rather a guy retire early than not have his heart into it hanging around just simply collecting checks
Imagine how much harder it is on a non-loaded team...
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good ****
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Plays 15+ years at an elite level, wins 2+ Finals MVP and 2+ championships as the best player on the best team in the league, wins 1+ MVP award, makes hundreds of millions of dollars ...
yeah, totally a quitter.
Lol. Took the words right out of my mouth.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
But you like Lebron? His phoniness and whinning doesn't bother you?
I respect Lebron as an all-time great player, but he's a phony as a leader, throws his teammates under the bus, never admits any blame for anything, intimidates his teammates and refs, whines after almost every play, and forces the front offices of his teams into bad decisions.
everyone whines. You wouldn't like anyone if you didn't like whiners. James doesn't come off as phoney to me. I think that is exactly who he is. He isn't a sociopath like KD or a fake tough guy bully like KG.
LOL, if James doesn’t come off as phoney to you there’s nothing really to say. Your assessment of KG is also pretty hilarious
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Plays 15+ years at an elite level, wins 2+ Finals MVP and 2+ championships as the best player on the best team in the league, wins 1+ MVP award, makes hundreds of millions of dollars ...
yeah, totally a quitter.
is 2+ championships an accomplishment when it’s after joining 73-9 team? I don’t know many nba fans online or offline who respect his championships? Also curry played better
And he’s a quitter because he doesn’t want to go after the records when he’s in a position to be able to do it
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Plays 15+ years at an elite level, wins 2+ Finals MVP and 2+ championships as the best player on the best team in the league, wins 1+ MVP award, makes hundreds of millions of dollars ...
yeah, totally a quitter.
is 2+ championships an accomplishment when it’s after joining 73-9 team? I don’t know many nba fans online or offline who respect his championships? Also curry played better
And he’s a quitter because he doesn’t want to go after the records when he’s in a position to be able to do it
The records and legacy talk is so annoying nowadays. Nobody talked about legacy even 15 years ago and even 3 or 4 years it was never like it is now. People retire, they always did. Jordan was still awesome when he retired the first two times. He could have put a lot of records out of reach. He didn’t care. Karl Malone could have been the NBA’s alltime leading scorer and passed Kareem. He retired. I respect someone who just focuses on whether they want to keep playing. They don’t owe it to the fans to chase records.
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
i see what u mean about KD
but KG went after vets too
(more so as a celtic)
got up in dwight's face
gave lebron crap too
i freakin love KG, ha
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
I was just going to say, with these comments, at least you have your answer, theoretically, concerning the question about the possible duration/timeline of Golden State's run :-\.
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I think this could make sense. KD is very active on the business side. I think he and Lebron will both build legacies as business men. They are already both all time greats. Their high-end potential on the basketball court is largely unrivaled by the rest of the NBA going back to the 60's. When everything is said and done, KD will be top 10 all time and Lebron will be top 3 (if he isn't already).
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
Except that means Curry will have more titles than either of them.
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
Except that means Curry will have more titles than either of them.
Can one imagine Steph Curry having 8 rings? :o
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
But you like Lebron? His phoniness and whinning doesn't bother you?
I respect Lebron as an all-time great player, but he's a phony as a leader, throws his teammates under the bus, never admits any blame for anything, intimidates his teammates and refs, whines after almost every play, and forces the front offices of his teams into bad decisions.
I believe Moranis is a Cavs fan who infiltrated CB and even got to be a mod. All his posts clearly show that.
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
Except that means Curry will have more titles than either of them.
Can one imagine Steph Curry having 8 rings? :o
That would be insane. Mostly insane because there's almost no chance it happens
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
I would respect and understand your position on KD if it weren’t inconsistent with LeBron. LeBron is everything that you mentioned about KD and more. The NBA will be significantly better once he’s finally gone (just in time for Rich Paul to sign his kid to continue the entitlement parade).
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
I would respect and understand your position on KD if it weren’t inconsistent with LeBron. LeBron is everything that you mentioned about KD and more. The NBA will be significantly better once he’s finally gone (just in time for Rich Paul to sign his kid to continue the entitlement parade).
Lebron doesn't pretend to be something he is not. Lebron's arrogance has always been on full display. Same as Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc. All great players are arrogant, I just don't like the way the Durant hid his and pretended he was something he wasn't. It comes off as phoney and fake.
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
Not gonna happen, unless he joins Boston in the next couple of years.
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5 more years gives him just enough time to breeze past Jordan's 6 titles.
Not gonna happen, unless he joins Boston in the next couple of years.
Won't be a breeze and he already has a finals loss.... I can stomach the MJ vs LJ debate....Don't even bring up Durant vs MJ. Its even further apart than the LJ debate in my eyes.
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
I would respect and understand your position on KD if it weren’t inconsistent with LeBron. LeBron is everything that you mentioned about KD and more. The NBA will be significantly better once he’s finally gone (just in time for Rich Paul to sign his kid to continue the entitlement parade).
Lebron doesn't pretend to be something he is not. Lebron's arrogance has always been on full display. Same as Kobe, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, Magic, etc. All great players are arrogant, I just don't like the way the Durant hid his and pretended he was something he wasn't. It comes off as phoney and fake.
And yet you were able to see through the phony and find the arrogance. Maybe it's not as hidden as you think it is, or you yourself are arrogant :)
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I know we are worse without him, but I'm glad he didn't come here. It would have forced me to again root for a player I absolutely despised (KG was the other).
you despised kd before the decision?
and why did you hate KG?
he was a fighter with a garbage cast in Minnesota
but you love lebron?
what am i missing?
yeah I never liked Durant in OKC. He always just seemed phoney to me. Tried to act like the good guy and always let Russ take the brunt of everything whike he sjated by and then when he got any criticism acted like someone killed hia family. Always just a phoney to me. The extent of his arrogance and pettiness is on full display in the Bay.
As for KG he is and always has been the biggest prick on the court. I just don't like the way he would go after rookies or backups like he was a tough guy and he never went after vets. Just a real **** on the court.
But you like Lebron? His phoniness and whinning doesn't bother you?
I respect Lebron as an all-time great player, but he's a phony as a leader, throws his teammates under the bus, never admits any blame for anything, intimidates his teammates and refs, whines after almost every play, and forces the front offices of his teams into bad decisions.
everyone whines. You wouldn't like anyone if you didn't like whiners. James doesn't come off as phoney to me. I think that is exactly who he is. He isn't a sociopath like KD or a fake tough guy bully like KG.
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Durant and Lebron are very similar. Both great players. Both went and played with their friends on super teams. Both very sensitive. Hard to imagine hating one and loving the other
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
Something to keep in mind Durant may end up with twice as many rings as Lebron. If he doesn't retire early he would end up very very high on all scoring list. Perhaps top 3. You would still have him barely in the top 20?
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
Something to keep in mind Durant may end up with twice as many rings as Lebron. If he doesn't retire early he would end up very very high on all scoring list. Perhaps top 3. You would still have him barely in the top 20?
You really don't read my posts before you respond to them do you?
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
Something to keep in mind Durant may end up with twice as many rings as Lebron. If he doesn't retire early he would end up very very high on all scoring list. Perhaps top 3. You would still have him barely in the top 20?
You really don't read my posts before you respond to them do you?
I do. Do you read mine? Make less childish responses. Most people think Durant has elevated himself to being a very good defensive player. Ironically he has bothered James with his length at times. He is also a very good rebounder. He clearly is a worse passer than James, but on the flip side is a better shooter and scorer. Just cause I don't live in Cleveland and haven't built up Lebron into being a god, doesn't mean I didn't read your post just cause I don't agree with it. Now having said that, if Durant gets up with twice as many titles as Lebron and is top 3 all time in scoring, you are going to be in the minority opinion if you have him ranked 20th.
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
Something to keep in mind Durant may end up with twice as many rings as Lebron. If he doesn't retire early he would end up very very high on all scoring list. Perhaps top 3. You would still have him barely in the top 20?
You really don't read my posts before you respond to them do you?
I do. Do you read mine? Make less childish responses. Most people think Durant has elevated himself to being a very good defensive player. Ironically he has bothered James with his length at times. He is also a very good rebounder. He clearly is a worse passer than James, but on the flip side is a better shooter and scorer. Just cause I don't live in Cleveland and haven't built up Lebron into being a god, doesn't mean I didn't read your post just cause I don't agree with it. Now having said that, if Durant gets up with twice as many titles as Lebron and is top 3 all time in scoring, you are going to be in the minority opinion if you have him ranked 20th.
I bolded the part you apparently didn't read.
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Durant doesn't have a complete enough all around game to be in the same league as Jordan and James in the all time great discussion. He could potentially get into the back end of the top 10 all time though, but right now he has a long way to go to even get in the discussion with someone like Bryant (a top 20ish all time player).
Something to keep in mind Durant may end up with twice as many rings as Lebron. If he doesn't retire early he would end up very very high on all scoring list. Perhaps top 3. You would still have him barely in the top 20?
You really don't read my posts before you respond to them do you?
I do. Do you read mine? Make less childish responses. Most people think Durant has elevated himself to being a very good defensive player. Ironically he has bothered James with his length at times. He is also a very good rebounder. He clearly is a worse passer than James, but on the flip side is a better shooter and scorer. Just cause I don't live in Cleveland and haven't built up Lebron into being a god, doesn't mean I didn't read your post just cause I don't agree with it. Now having said that, if Durant gets up with twice as many titles as Lebron and is top 3 all time in scoring, you are going to be in the minority opinion if you have him ranked 20th.
I bolded the part you apparently didn't read.
Sigh. You said Durant was not a complete player like James, I pointed out that he was actually quite a good rebounder and had become a very good defensive player. You said he had a long way to go to get ranked even in the top 20 near someone like Bryant. You then made a note about him maybe making the top 10 when all is said and done. I am not really sure what how you are quantifying your "long way to go to get near top 20ish like Kobe" (though hate to break it to you a lot of people think Kobe is top 10). So I tried to respond to your jumbled post as best I could. Instead of a debate about what he needs to do to be a more complete player (Durant got 31 all defensive votes compared to 1 for James), you just write back saying I didn't read your post.
To add even more meat here, Durant is 6th in points scored of active players and scores about 2k points a season if he stays healthy. Even if he only plays 6 more years through his age 35 seaons, he would get pretty close to top 5 all time if not top 3 with good health. Is that the long way you are referencing?
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ESPN has Kevin Durant at 22 in their all time ranking ahead of Curry, Baylor, and Pippen who they had at 23-25. I think you could pretty reasonably argue all of those players are ahead of Durant (especially 2 MVP and 3 championship Curry), but that is really preference and I can totally see the argument for Durant. 21st was Kevin Garnett. I don't think Durant, right now, is all that close to KG in all time rankings, though if Durant were to win the MVP again next year, I think that starts to get him in that conversation along with most of the back half of the top 20 which in order were K. Malone, Dirk, Charles, Stockton, and Robinson. 11-15 they had Oscar, Kobe, West, Dr. J, and M. Malone. Those rankings seems about right to me. Their top 10 in order were Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Russell, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem. That again doesn't seem that strange to me. I'd personally have Magic a bit lower and Wilt higher, but again nothing seems strange there.
At the end of the day, I just think Durant needs to do more to be widely regarded as a top 20 player all time, and to get into the conversation for the top 10 all time he has to do a very significant amount. If he wants to get there it would be a lot easier for him, if he left the Warriors and won a title. He will never get full credit playing for the Warriors (nor should he really).
As for things like defense, Durant has never made an All Defense Team. Lebron has 5 1st team and 1 2nd Team (he has also finished 2nd in DPOY voting). His peak he was a much better defender than Durant has ever been (Lebron's 2nd Team, his last, he was the same age as Durant is now). Lebron has now gone 12 straight seasons finishing in the top 5 in MVP voting. He has been on 11 straight 1st Team All NBA Teams (and has another and a couple of 2nd's). Durant just picked up his 6th 1st Team (he also a couple of 2nd's as well). There is no real comparison between those two, which is why James is compared to guys like Jordan and Durant is not and won't ever be.
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ESPN has Kevin Durant at 22 in their all time ranking ahead of Curry, Baylor, and Pippen who they had at 23-25. I think you could pretty reasonably argue all of those players are ahead of Durant (especially 2 MVP and 3 championship Curry), but that is really preference and I can totally see the argument for Durant. 21st was Kevin Garnett. I don't think Durant, right now, is all that close to KG in all time rankings, though if Durant were to win the MVP again next year, I think that starts to get him in that conversation along with most of the back half of the top 20 which in order were K. Malone, Dirk, Charles, Stockton, and Robinson. 11-15 they had Oscar, Kobe, West, Dr. J, and M. Malone. Those rankings seems about right to me. Their top 10 in order were Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Russell, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem. That again doesn't seem that strange to me. I'd personally have Magic a bit lower and Wilt higher, but again nothing seems strange there.
At the end of the day, I just think Durant needs to do more to be widely regarded as a top 20 player all time, and to get into the conversation for the top 10 all time he has to do a very significant amount. If he wants to get there it would be a lot easier for him, if he left the Warriors and won a title. He will never get full credit playing for the Warriors (nor should he really).
As for things like defense, Durant has never made an All Defense Team. Lebron has 5 1st team and 1 2nd Team (he has also finished 2nd in DPOY voting). His peak he was a much better defender than Durant has ever been (Lebron's 2nd Team, his last, he was the same age as Durant is now). Lebron has now gone 12 straight seasons finishing in the top 5 in MVP voting. He has been on 11 straight 1st Team All NBA Teams (and has another and a couple of 2nd's). Durant just picked up his 6th 1st Team (he also a couple of 2nd's as well). There is no real comparison between those two, which is why James is compared to guys like Jordan and Durant is not and won't ever be.
Durant still has a really good chance to fill out his resume though and get a boatload of rings. His defense is getting way more respect than it used to (and frankly he is just playing better). In 2016-2017 he got 7 total votes. This year he was 14th in total voting and got 7 first team votes. If he starts making all-defensive teams, which it seems is probably a goal of his, that certainly elevates his ceiling as a player. All these players follow different career arcs, and I think it is too early to dismiss Durant if he ends up the leagues all time leading scorer and has 6-7 rings.
Also with respect to the Warriors, do you think in fans eyes he would start getting more respect winning rings with the Warriors if they lost Draymond? At that point the team would seem to be pretty similar to Lebron's heat teams, and most people don't view those rings as 100% cheap.
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ESPN has Kevin Durant at 22 in their all time ranking ahead of Curry, Baylor, and Pippen who they had at 23-25. I think you could pretty reasonably argue all of those players are ahead of Durant (especially 2 MVP and 3 championship Curry), but that is really preference and I can totally see the argument for Durant. 21st was Kevin Garnett. I don't think Durant, right now, is all that close to KG in all time rankings, though if Durant were to win the MVP again next year, I think that starts to get him in that conversation along with most of the back half of the top 20 which in order were K. Malone, Dirk, Charles, Stockton, and Robinson. 11-15 they had Oscar, Kobe, West, Dr. J, and M. Malone. Those rankings seems about right to me. Their top 10 in order were Jordan, Kareem, Lebron, Magic, Wilt, Bird, Russell, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem. That again doesn't seem that strange to me. I'd personally have Magic a bit lower and Wilt higher, but again nothing seems strange there.
At the end of the day, I just think Durant needs to do more to be widely regarded as a top 20 player all time, and to get into the conversation for the top 10 all time he has to do a very significant amount. If he wants to get there it would be a lot easier for him, if he left the Warriors and won a title. He will never get full credit playing for the Warriors (nor should he really).
As for things like defense, Durant has never made an All Defense Team. Lebron has 5 1st team and 1 2nd Team (he has also finished 2nd in DPOY voting). His peak he was a much better defender than Durant has ever been (Lebron's 2nd Team, his last, he was the same age as Durant is now). Lebron has now gone 12 straight seasons finishing in the top 5 in MVP voting. He has been on 11 straight 1st Team All NBA Teams (and has another and a couple of 2nd's). Durant just picked up his 6th 1st Team (he also a couple of 2nd's as well). There is no real comparison between those two, which is why James is compared to guys like Jordan and Durant is not and won't ever be.
Durant still has a really good chance to fill out his resume though and get a boatload of rings. His defense is getting way more respect than it used to (and frankly he is just playing better). In 2016-2017 he got 7 total votes. This year he was 14th in total voting and got 7 first team votes. If he starts making all-defensive teams, which it seems is probably a goal of his, that certainly elevates his ceiling as a player. All these players follow different career arcs, and I think it is too early to dismiss Durant if he ends up the leagues all time leading scorer and has 6-7 rings.
Also with respect to the Warriors, do you think in fans eyes he would start getting more respect winning rings with the Warriors if they lost Draymond? At that point the team would seem to be pretty similar to Lebron's heat teams, and most people don't view those rings as 100% cheap.
Maybe if they lose Draymond and keep winning the back end ones will have more long term value (much like James gets far more respect for the 1 in Cleveland than the 2 in Miami), but I think he will always be hurt by joining the winningest team in NBA history that eliminated his team after he choked away a 3-1 lead. I just don't see him really overcoming that and ending up in the conversation with the all time all time greats unless he leaves and wins more titles on a different sort of team.
Unless Durant leaves (or Curry does), Curry will always have more titles than him. Curry currently has 2 MVP's to Durant's 1. I think Durant will have a hard time truly eclipsing Curry if they remain on the same team. Durant is also going to have a hard time getting the totals in Golden State. He has never been overly healthy and his numbers have taken a hit in GS (for obvious reasons). Even if he starts averaging 75 games a year and maintains his 26 ppg that is only about 1950 points a year. He'd have to do that for 9 more years to pass Kareem and who knows where James will actually end up. I think he will find it very difficult to pass Malone and even Kobe still has him by 12,730 points (that is 6.5 seasons of 75 games and 26 ppg just to catch him). He still has to do that for over 5 seasons to catch Wilt, Dirk, and Lebron (where he currently sits). Top 10 all time scoring is certainly doable and barring injury fairly likely, but I wouldn't bet on him ending up in the top 5 (Jordan would likely be sitting in 5th by then at 32,292 total points - just about 6 seasons of 26 ppg and 75 games).
Now if Durant were to leave and be a clear cut #1 scoring option, those things become more likely. And if he wins a title (not on the Warriors) or another MVP (even on the Warriors is fine for that one), then he has a real shot at ending up as a top 10 player all time, though I don't see him ever really reaching the top 5 discussion.
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It's pretty likely the Warriors would still only have just the one championship if not for Durant signing there. They probably would have lost to the Cavs again last year, and probably would have lost to the Rockets this year.
Durant might still have a lot to prove to a certain group of haters, but those of us being reasonable can see he's been the best player on that team the last two seasons, and the main reason they were able to win these last two titles.
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It's pretty likely the Warriors would still only have just the one championship if not for Durant signing there. They probably would have lost to the Cavs again last year, and probably would have lost to the Rockets this year.
Durant might still have a lot to prove to a certain group of haters, but those of us being reasonable can see he's been the best player on that team the last two seasons, and the main reason they were able to win these last two titles.
You think the Warriors would have lost to the Cavs last year without Durant (I assume they keep Barnes and Bogut in that scenario or replace them with similar level players)? I don't think that would be a common belief. I'm not even sure in NE Ohio where I live that would have been a common belief.
Certainly this year the Rockets as currently constructed would have had a great shot (though maybe they don't go all in for a 1 year rental of Chris Paul if Durant isn't in GS).
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It's pretty likely the Warriors would still only have just the one championship if not for Durant signing there. They probably would have lost to the Cavs again last year, and probably would have lost to the Rockets this year.
Durant might still have a lot to prove to a certain group of haters, but those of us being reasonable can see he's been the best player on that team the last two seasons, and the main reason they were able to win these last two titles.
I think 2017 Jazz would've threatened the Warriors without Kevin Durant. But I agree, the 2017 Cavs would have creamed the 2017 Warriors sans Kevin Durant.
And then a Durant-less 2018 Warriors would've likely been a second/third-round exit. They just aren't THAT good without KD. 73-9 was simply overrated lol.