CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Phantom255x on May 16, 2018, 09:35:06 AM
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https://nesn.com/2018/05/wyc-grousbeck-was-brutally-honest-about-why-celtics-needed-to-make-changes/
Last season’s Boston Celtics were, at times, both inspirational and thrilling to watch.
But that team wasn’t good enough to reach the top, and the front office knew it.
The current version of the Celtics, which will play the Cleveland Cavaliers on Tuesday in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference finals, features just four players from last year’s team: Al Horford, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier. And during an appearance Tuesday on 98.5 The Sports Hub’s “Felger & Mazz,” Celtics co-owner Wyc Grousbeck revealed there was a perfectly good reason for why Boston overhauled its roster in the offseason.
Dan Lifshatz
@DanLifshatz
Celtics Co-Owner Wyc Grousbeck: "We made major changes because we weren't winning anything with last year's team."
Pretty [dang]ing indictment. Jesus Wyc
12:43 PM - 15 May 2018
Talk about it putting it bluntly.
Still, Grousbeck probably is right. As fun as it was to watch Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder and Co. fight their way to the conference finals, the fact is that team had reached its ceiling and needed a shakeup.
But the Celtics as currently constituted? Well, the sky really is the limit.
Adam Kaufman
Verified account
@AdamMKaufman
#Celtics owner Grousbeck (98.5): "We were in the final four last yr, but got bounced. Hard. We changed 11 of 15 guys. That team wasn't getting us there. ... We weren't anywhere near championship caliber. We got stomped by the Cavs and they pretty much got rolled by the Warriors."
1:34 PM - 15 May 2018
Wow, that's some brutal honesty by Wyc lol, but the results are showing as we lead CLE 2-0!
No disrespect to Isaiah, Bradley and company, as I loved what they did for us in their time here and appreciate/miss them.
But wow, this team is WAY different than last year’s and actually matches up so well against the elite teams (Cavaliers included)
Got length, size, versatility, multiple scoring threats and guys who are willing to play defense too!
Also, we have a fearless front court this year as opposed to last year when we trotted out Olynyk, Amir, Zeller and Mickey (YIKES). You think those guys would have handled Embiid, Giannis and Thompson like Baynes, Monroe and Morris have? HA. Nope! :P
Horford also looks so much more comfortable with Baynes now here and that allows Horford to do more of his own thing (and so far, he's dominating these playoffs!)
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yes. Wasn't that clear when they were broken up? This isn't the first time Danny's done this. He broke 2002 ECF team because he was clear that they overachieved and couldn't win a title, so he got rid of EVERYBODY except Paul Pierce.
Last year's team clearly overachieved. I said this last year over and over again, IT can never be the centerpiece on a championship team. He's a second option at best, and his ego will keep him from filling that role properly.
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yes. Wasn't that clear when they were broken up? This isn't the first time Danny's done this. He broke 2002 ECF team because he was clear that they overachieved and couldn't win a title, so he got rid of EVERYBODY except Paul Pierce.
Last year's team clearly overachieved. I said this last year over and over again, IT can never be the centerpiece on a championship team. He's a second option at best, and his ego will keep him from filling that role properly.
It was funny, because going into last summer, we thought some guys would walk in FA and maybe we'd trade Bradley or Crowder to sign Hayward (pretty much givens), but nothing much else. What we didn't realize was, 11 of 15 guys left via trade or FA LOL.
Like, we considered most our guys untouchable and NEVER expected Isaiah to be traded like that, and he was.
And that Fultz saga and the #1 pick. LOL we had a Fultz week on this blog and it was almost a given we were drafting him. Nope, now we have Tatum, which looks like another GENIUS move by Danny! 8)
I wish I would say Tatum and Brown are untouchable now, but who knows with Danny :P
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TP. Great read!
I think this summer will be relatively quiet besides obviously negotiating with Smart, Baynes, maybe Monroe, and of course seeing what teams will offer for Rozier. If Ainge doesn't like any of the offers, he'd be fine keeping Rozier as a great 6th man off the bench behind Kyrie in our championship run next year.
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TP. Great read!
I think this summer will be relatively quiet besides obviously negotiating with Smart, Baynes, maybe Monroe, and of course seeing what teams will offer for Rozier. If Ainge doesn't like any of the offers, he'd be fine keeping Rozier as a great 6th man off the bench behind Kyrie in our championship run next year.
Yep. I really hope they keep Baynes at MLE and find a reasonable rate to keep Smart.
I'd hope we can keep Smart around 4/44M. Might also allow us to stay just below the luxury tax threshold for another year (before we enter it for sure starting in the 2019-2020 season).
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yes. Wasn't that clear when they were broken up? This isn't the first time Danny's done this. He broke 2002 ECF team because he was clear that they overachieved and couldn't win a title, so he got rid of EVERYBODY except Paul Pierce.
Last year's team clearly overachieved. I said this last year over and over again, IT can never be the centerpiece on a championship team. He's a second option at best, and his ego will keep him from filling that role properly.
It was funny, because going into last summer, we thought some guys would walk in FA and maybe we'd trade Bradley or Crowder to sign Hayward (pretty much givens), but nothing much else. What we didn't realize was, 11 of 15 guys left via trade or FA LOL.
Like, we considered most our guys untouchable and NEVER expected Isaiah to be traded like that, and he was.
And that Fultz saga and the #1 pick. LOL we had a Fultz week on this blog and it was almost a given we were drafting him. Nope, now we have Tatum, which looks like another GENIUS move by Danny! 8)
I wish I would say Tatum and Brown are untouchable now, but who knows with Danny :P
I was on the Fultz bandwagon, and never saw the Tatum thing coming. But I never liked Isaiah in the role that he was in, and was one of those people who refused to sign him to a max contract. Hated his game, and still do.
That said, that why Danny is Danny, and has the job that he does, and I post on message boards.
Here's the difference with Tatum and Brown. Danny needed to upgrade last years team. He needed to upgrade Isaiah to Kyrie when the opportunity arose, and he needed to add a prime asset (according to report Nets pick or Jayson Tatum) to make that happen.
He's now built a contender ahead of schedule (this would be the Brad effect). He no longer needs to add to the team to be a contender, he already has one. And that now puts him in the drivers seat. He has a contender with Tatum and Brown that works with the cap and might for years to come. So he doesn't need to move one to become a contender.
And that makes for a dangerous man.
He can name his price, sit tight, and if they pass, he's still fine. I'd imagine, short of getting AD to pair with Hayward and Kyrie, he probably won't offer Tatum or Brown, cause he doesn't have to.
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TP. Great read!
I think this summer will be relatively quiet besides obviously negotiating with Smart, Baynes, maybe Monroe, and of course seeing what teams will offer for Rozier. If Ainge doesn't like any of the offers, he'd be fine keeping Rozier as a great 6th man off the bench behind Kyrie in our championship run next year.
Yep. I really hope they keep Baynes at MLE and find a reasonable rate to keep Smart.
I'd hope we can keep Smart around 4/44M. Might also allow us to stay just below the luxury tax threshold for another year (before we enter it for sure starting in the 2019-2020 season).
Wouldn’t we be able to offer Baynes a 20% raise, and preserve the MLE if we really wanted to? I guess the same scenario with Monroe. Maybe if we happen to lose Smart we’ll have to do that, and look at someone like Evans.
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TP. Great read!
I think this summer will be relatively quiet besides obviously negotiating with Smart, Baynes, maybe Monroe, and of course seeing what teams will offer for Rozier. If Ainge doesn't like any of the offers, he'd be fine keeping Rozier as a great 6th man off the bench behind Kyrie in our championship run next year.
Yep. I really hope they keep Baynes at MLE and find a reasonable rate to keep Smart.
I'd hope we can keep Smart around 4/44M. Might also allow us to stay just below the luxury tax threshold for another year (before we enter it for sure starting in the 2019-2020 season).
Wouldn’t we be able to offer Baynes a 20% raise, and preserve the MLE if we really wanted to? I guess the same scenario with Monroe. Maybe if we happen to lose Smart we’ll have to do that, and look at someone like Evans.
How exactly does that work? So we can offer Baynes something like 6M for next season and it wouldn't count against cap/luxury tax threshold?
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How exactly does that work? So we can offer Baynes something like 6M for next season and it wouldn't count against cap/luxury tax threshold?
It works exactly like any other salary cap exception, in this case its the Non-Bird Exception.
We can exceed the cap to offer Baines a 20% raise on his current salary, that means without using the MLE we can sign him to a contract starting at 5.19 million dollars. It counts against the luxury tax and everything else. The C's will have zero cap room this summer so they will only have the ability to sign players via exceptions like this one.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25
Using the non-taxpayer MLE we can sign him to a contract around 8.4 million, but then we are hard capped at the luxury tax and cannot exceed it for any reason. The tax-payer MLE which will not hard cap us is around $5.2 million same as his non-bird exception number.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
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How exactly does that work? So we can offer Baynes something like 6M for next season and it wouldn't count against cap/luxury tax threshold?
It works exactly like any other salary cap exception, in this case its the Non-Bird Exception.
We can exceed the cap to offer Baines a 20% raise on his current salary, that means without using the MLE we can sign him to a contract starting at 5.19 million dollars. It counts against the luxury tax and everything else. The C's will have zero cap room this summer so they will only have the ability to sign players via exceptions like this one.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q25
Using the non-taxpayer MLE we can sign him to a contract around 8.4 million, but then we are hard capped at the luxury tax and cannot exceed it for any reason. The tax-payer MLE which will not hard cap us is around $5.2 million same as his non-bird exception number.
Oh okay. TP! Thanks for that.
Hate to say it but we may have to offer MLE. His stock has risen a ton in playoffs I think.
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Let’s be honest a lot of people said the same thing and even asked for IT to be traded and were crucified on the blog. You gotta be able to recognize your value of what you have.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
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Hate to say it but we may have to offer MLE. His stock has risen a ton in playoffs I think.
Maybe. Tighter cap environment this year and look at what the signings were last year:
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/6/30/15897582/2017-nba-free-agency-signings-tracker
CENTERS
1. Nerlens Noel (R):
2. Pau Gasol:
3. Kelly Olynyk: Signs with Heat for four-years, $50 million plus
4. Mason Plumlee (R):
5. Nene: three years, $11 million with the Rockets
6. Dewayne Dedmon: 2 years, $14 million with Hawks
7. Marreese Speights:
8. Alex Len (R):
Other center signings
Cristiano Feliciano: Returning to Bulls with four-year, $32 million contract
Spencer Hawes: Opted in to stay with Bucks
Greg Monroe: Opted in to stay with Bucks
Mike Muscala: 2 years, $10 million to stay with Hawks
Zaza Pachulia: 1 year, $3.5 million with Warriors
Alan Williams: 3 years, $17 million to stay with Suns
Joffrey Lauvergne: Signs with Spurs, terms TBD
Aron Baynes: 1 year, $4.3 million with Celtics
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
TP. That's all true as well.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
This seems right. Every player at the 1-3 spots was a positional oddball, and had at least one serious limitation on the defensive end. The idea of doing all the switching we do now with IT and Bradley seems ridiculous.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
This seems right. Every player at the 1-3 spots was a positional oddball, and had at least one serious limitation on the defensive end. The idea of doing all the switching we do now with IT and Bradley seems ridiculous.
Also, Crowder's defense was just awful last year. Idk what happened but he no longer looked like the elite defender he was made out to be.
I mean, Morris is actually locking down James well and scoring too. Crowder did neither last year and Lebron killed him all series.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
This seems right. Every player at the 1-3 spots was a positional oddball, and had at least one serious limitation on the defensive end. The idea of doing all the switching we do now with IT and Bradley seems ridiculous.
Also, Crowder's defense was just awful last year. Idk what happened but he no longer looked like the elite defender he was made out to be.
I mean, Morris is actually locking down James well and scoring too. Crowder did neither last year and Lebron killed him all series.
Lebron looks tired to me. He's logged a lot of miles on those legs going to the Finals every year. This year he had the least amount of support he's had in a long time. I think its all finally caught up to him. After the first quarter he just settled for mid range and perimeter shots all game, and played no defense. He looks spent.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
I disagree.
The main weakness was at the wing/guard position. We went from one of the smallest teams at the wing (only Crowder was even average size unless you consider Jerebko a wing I don't) to a huge one.
Bradley/Smart/Crowder/Rozier/Brown gave way to Brown/Tatum/Morris/Smart/Semi.
And Brown was basically Semi during last years playoffs, more O but way worse D overall. Now he's playing at an all-star caliber when he hasn't been limited by injury.
This seems right. Every player at the 1-3 spots was a positional oddball, and had at least one serious limitation on the defensive end. The idea of doing all the switching we do now with IT and Bradley seems ridiculous.
Also, Crowder's defense was just awful last year. Idk what happened but he no longer looked like the elite defender he was made out to be.
I mean, Morris is actually locking down James well and scoring too. Crowder did neither last year and Lebron killed him all series.
Lebron looks tired to me. He's logged a lot of miles on those legs going to the Finals every year. This year he had the least amount of support he's had in a long time. I think its all finally caught up to him. After the first quarter he just settled for mid range and perimeter shots all game, and played no defense. He looks spent.
That's true.
The difference is also, the C's are making him work hard even for those jumpers and perimeter shots. Last year, it was like Crowder and Olynyk (on switches) just gave James 10 feet of space to shoot open looks. Of course, he cooked us as a result in four of the five games (except Game 3).
I do agree that against the Cavaliers, even if we start slow, the key is staying in the game. That whole team seems to fold and tire out by the middle of the 3rd quarter. As absurd as that sounds, it's looked that way in Games 1 and 2.
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it was pretty obvious after Ainge blew up the team and people were surprised.
its also the difference between a franchise like the Raptors and the Celtics. This ownership isn't content with just making the ECF and having a good season....they want to WIN the finals and bring back banner 18 and maybe more.
I dont think the Raptors have the guts to trade Derozan/Lowry and try and restructure their team...
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Let’s be honest a lot of people said the same thing and even asked for IT to be traded and were crucified on the blog. You gotta be able to recognize your value of what you have.
I was one of those.
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Wyc does not get enough credit, he is the best owner is all of sports.
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Let’s be honest a lot of people said the same thing and even asked for IT to be traded and were crucified on the blog. You gotta be able to recognize your value of what you have.
I was one of those.
I wasn't :P
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
Oh man, nightmare fuel. Glad he's a South Beach problem now
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
Oh man, nightmare fuel. Glad he's a South Beach problem now
Yeah. Can you imagine last year's front court dealing with Giannis, Embiid and Tristan Thompson during this playoff run? YIKES. :o
So glad we have Baynes, Morris and Monroe.
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
Oh man, nightmare fuel. Glad he's a South Beach problem now
Yeah. Can you imagine last year's front court dealing with Giannis, Embiid and Tristan Thompson during this playoff run? YIKES. :o
So glad we have Baynes, Morris and Monroe.
Zeller on Embiid! Lock him up Ty!!!
Love that we have Baynes, Monroe, Mook and Theis (wish he was healthy) now
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
Oh man, nightmare fuel. Glad he's a South Beach problem now
Yeah. Can you imagine last year's front court dealing with Giannis, Embiid and Tristan Thompson during this playoff run? YIKES. :o
So glad we have Baynes, Morris and Monroe.
Zeller on Embiid! Lock him up Ty!!!
Love that we have Baynes, Monroe, Mook and Theis (wish he was healthy) now
Yeah I didn't include Theis because unfortunately he's injured now.
But he should be another key piece in our (hopefully healthy) championship run next year!
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Let's face it, the Main problem with last year, was the big man "toughness"...Zeller/Amir/Kelly were as WEAK as you can get up front.
It's good to know that Wyc was as sick and tired of watching Olynk and Zeller as many of us were.
It was embarrassing when Robin Lopez and Marcin Gortat looked like Prime Shaq against us during the playoffs. Also, Olynyk's inconsistency was just maddening. His pump fakes on WIDE OPEN shots too (UGH)
Oh man, nightmare fuel. Glad he's a South Beach problem now
Yeah. Can you imagine last year's front court dealing with Giannis, Embiid and Tristan Thompson during this playoff run? YIKES. :o
So glad we have Baynes, Morris and Monroe.
Zeller on Embiid! Lock him up Ty!!!
Love that we have Baynes, Monroe, Mook and Theis (wish he was healthy) now
Yeah I didn't include Theis because unfortunately he's injured now.
But he should be another key piece in our (hopefully healthy) championship run next year!
Yeah, we'll need him for our back to back ;) and then for our double three-peat