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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: cman88 on May 16, 2018, 07:50:09 AM

Title: Danny has built a contender
Post by: cman88 on May 16, 2018, 07:50:09 AM
He's done it guys. no matter what happens this year, its pretty clear to me that this core has championship potential. last nights game had shades of a passing of the torch sort of moment. Lebron scored 40pts but the celtics young guys were just too much for the cavs....and thats without Irving/Hayward

right now we are up 2-0 over the cavs in the ECF without our two big acquisitions in Irving/Hayward and missing key pieces to the regular season like Theis/Larkin. You add those two next year plus added development of Tatum/Brown and this team will be a juggernaut in the east. You look at the guys stepping up: Brown, Tatum, smart, Rozier.....all Danny draft picks.

Now, danny will have some work to do this summer. we NEED to lock up Marcus smart. he is the heart and soul of this team. and last night proves it. also, I think we need to try and keep Baynes and Morris. Both guys bring a chip on their shoulder that is infectious.

but, you cant make me think otherwise, that as long as Danny can bring back this same squad we can come right at the warriors next year.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Surferdad on May 16, 2018, 07:55:10 AM
Agreed except I don't see much work to do this summer.  Likely lose Monroe and Nader gets squeezed out by the 1st round pick.

KEEP THE BAND TOGETHER, ADD TWO ALL-STARS. 
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Chris22 on May 16, 2018, 08:10:40 AM
Remember when people were saying fire Danny, Brown is a bust, and Smart and Rozier were just poor backup guards.

Good times.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: boscel33 on May 16, 2018, 08:13:19 AM
I think Danny deals the pick.  No need with the potential of four next year:

Celtics 2019 first round pick plus

 2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento
Boston will receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick (via Philadelphia) protected for selection 1 and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]

Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Tr1boy on May 16, 2018, 08:20:52 AM
Some of the best moves he made was trading IT4, Crowder(best contract in basketball) and AB

There was a ton of resistance from fans of trading these guys.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: slamtheking on May 16, 2018, 08:24:45 AM
I think Danny deals the pick.  No need with the potential of four next year:

Celtics 2019 first round pick plus

 2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento
Boston will receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick (via Philadelphia) protected for selection 1 and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]
deal the pick for what though?  a pick in the late 20's isn't going to get much.  maybe for a pick in a later draft but who'd give up a future first that would likely be a higher pick than what the C's are giving up the year.  On the flip side, whoever they would draft this year is very likely Nader's replacement on the roster.  I don't think anyone would object to that trade-off.

As for the ones that could convey next year, they know they have their own and the Sac pick. 

Memphis should have Conley back as well as Gasol.  They have enough decent pieces to stay out of the bottom 8 so I don't see that conveying.  since that eventually becomes unprotected, that's a keeper.

The Clips pick may or may not convey.  they'd have to make the playoffs which is a possibility out West for the next 2 years and then it becomes a second rounder.  of any of the picks the C's own, I would think this is the preferred one to move.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: celticinorlando on May 16, 2018, 08:24:54 AM
Danny has built a championship team and with all its pieces can match GS Warriors
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Tr1boy on May 16, 2018, 08:32:48 AM
Danny type players do exist . Tough, Versatile, Fearless, Motor

Nets picks were lucky but the picks he made were skills
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Greyman on May 16, 2018, 08:35:21 AM
This may need its own thread but I will put it in here. I really hope Marcus Smart gets a championship. There is little doubt the Celtics are set to contend for the next few (or more) seasons. There are so many players to love on the roster right now but I feel (in a big way) it will be a great shame if the Celtics win a title and Marcus is not a part of it.

Maybe this is the season, perhaps the Celtics have to wait a season or more. Who really knows? I would just hate that the team could achieve the goal DA and CBS have worked for and Smart not be part of it. This is where you tell me that the Celtics will never part with Smart and he will win multiple titles.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Moranis on May 16, 2018, 08:40:14 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse. 
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: aefgogreen on May 16, 2018, 08:45:13 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: BitterJim on May 16, 2018, 08:46:48 AM
Some of the best moves he made was trading IT4, Crowder(best contract in basketball) and AB

There was a ton of resistance from fans of trading these guys.

No, the best moves were trading for Irving and signing Hayward. Trading those guys was just a necessary part of that

Does anyone really think that this team would be worse with AB replacing Semi, Crowder replacing Nader, and IT replacing Larkin?
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Moranis on May 16, 2018, 08:48:43 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: BitterJim on May 16, 2018, 08:49:00 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Sounds a lot like Rozier, but Kyrie is better
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 08:50:08 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.

This exchange reflects my internal dialog pretty much exactly. Unless trader Danny strikes, Brad has a challenge next year convincing some guys to take fewer shots/get fewer touches.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: BitterJim on May 16, 2018, 08:50:28 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

I can't see us trading Kyrie for Kawhi with the glut of wings we have now. If we were going to trade him (which we aren't), he would need to be traded for another guard or a big
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Androslav on May 16, 2018, 08:51:58 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
That's just Moranis missing Kyrie in Cleveland now.
If a girl doesn't like you (Kyrie leaving Cleveland), then you say you never liked her in the first place (Cavs fans telling Kyries mistakes) and with time you might make yourself believe that.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 08:52:01 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Sounds a lot like Rozier, but Kyrie is better

If I had a way to turn Kyrie into Jaren Jackson and an expiring contract or two I would be really, really tempted. Run it back adding one all-star wing to this year's playoff team and our center/PF of the future. But I don't think there is a way to do that.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Monkhouse on May 16, 2018, 08:53:19 AM
The notion trading Kyrie makes us better.. get real.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Donoghus on May 16, 2018, 08:59:49 AM
I think it's been blatantly obvious for months but this run certainly reinforces it.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: footey on May 16, 2018, 09:03:23 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

You’re not exactly describing a Popovich type of player either.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Moranis on May 16, 2018, 09:50:51 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Don't get me wrong, there are stretches where Boston can't score and Irving is a master at that, but I think Hayward would also help that a great deal and unlike Irving, Hayward has a more team friendly offensive style and isn't a liability on the defensive end.  I just wonder if those Irving for Leonard trade rumors have some actual fire to them and aren't just nonsense to fill the time.

You’re not exactly describing a Popovich type of player either.
Nope, but if Leonard tells them he is leaving, and with Pop not having much time left, then Irving would make a great deal of sense in a straight up swap (or only minor other pieces exchanging hands). 

Rozier is clearly not as good as Irving as an overall player, but he seems to have a nice chemistry with the other starters, has completely bought into the Stevens offense, and is a better defender.  All of that has made Brown and Tatum much better offensive players and allowed them more freedom defensively (since they aren't covering for Irving).  I don't think it is a coincidence that Irving goes down and Brown all of a sudden looks like a #1 scoring option and Tatum has exploded with confidence.  I just don't know if Irving's ball dominance has a place in this offense.  I never would have thought I would be saying that, but watching the way this team has played without Irving, I'm really not sure he has a place and if Boston can get some other better fitting piece, I'd absolutely consider it.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 10:20:15 AM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.

Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Tr1boy on May 16, 2018, 10:23:21 AM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.

Good questions... Kyrie also won't be playing "optimal" if he doesn't have the ball in his hands/shooting alot
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Surferdad on May 16, 2018, 10:27:08 AM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Erik on May 16, 2018, 10:31:31 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

It's always a good idea to a have Plan C:
The play broke down, no easy shots, pass the ball to Kyrie and take the 46.2% that he makes it.

You're forgetting that Kyrie was part of the ball rotation except during those Plan C moments and the final 5 minutes.

The largest ball stopper is actually Marcus Morris.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 10:32:53 AM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Russell Westbrook. Maybe LeBron. Hard to say.

I really don't know either. It's going to be next year's most interesting question. If everybody buys in and we hold on to Smart, this team could absolutely steamroll next year. A starting five that should be at least equal to Golden State, and a bench that is much, much better. 
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Kuberski33 on May 16, 2018, 10:39:45 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Tommy point on a gutsy post.  I'm a cynical fan as well and part of me has concerns about chemistry. But I think Stevens is the best guy to find a way to make it work.
Kyrie is probably the one who has to make adjustments to the way he plays. But I expect him to do that.  He seems to be all in given his presence and support for his teammates during the playoffs.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: mef730 on May 16, 2018, 10:57:11 AM
I think Danny deals the pick.  No need with the potential of four next year:

Celtics 2019 first round pick plus

 2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento
Boston will receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick (via Philadelphia) protected for selection 1 and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]
deal the pick for what though?  a pick in the late 20's isn't going to get much.  maybe for a pick in a later draft but who'd give up a future first that would likely be a higher pick than what the C's are giving up the year.  On the flip side, whoever they would draft this year is very likely Nader's replacement on the roster.  I don't think anyone would object to that trade-off.

As for the ones that could convey next year, they know they have their own and the Sac pick. 

Memphis should have Conley back as well as Gasol.  They have enough decent pieces to stay out of the bottom 8 so I don't see that conveying.  since that eventually becomes unprotected, that's a keeper.

The Clips pick may or may not convey.  they'd have to miss the playoffs which is a possibility out West for the next 2 years and then it becomes a second rounder.  of any of the picks the C's own, I would think this is the preferred one to move.

Memphis pick is 1-8 protected, so it does convey next year if they stay out of the bottom eight.

But I agree with the rest. The late draft picks alone won't get us much. Still, I don't know what we'd do with four next year.

Mike
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Casperian on May 16, 2018, 10:59:32 AM
Nah, the east is just incredibly weak. They're about as good as they were last season, which means they'll get destroyed by any of the good teams out west.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: nickagneta on May 16, 2018, 11:26:00 AM
AGAIN!!!

Danny Ainge has built a contender, AGAIN!!!

That makes it even more impressive.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 11:37:02 AM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

It's always a good idea to a have Plan C:
The play broke down, no easy shots, pass the ball to Kyrie and take the 46.2% that he makes it.

You're forgetting that Kyrie was part of the ball rotation except during those Plan C moments and the final 5 minutes.

The largest ball stopper is actually Marcus Morris.

The point about Morris is true x 1,000.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: seancally on May 16, 2018, 11:51:25 AM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Russell Westbrook. Maybe LeBron. Hard to say.

I really don't know either. It's going to be next year's most interesting question. If everybody buys in and we hold on to Smart, this team could absolutely steamroll next year. A starting five that should be at least equal to Golden State, and a bench that is much, much better.

Not sure why anyone would be worried about adding two All-Stars to an already-good team - especially the type of players:

- An alpha dog scorer and ball-handler who will continue to improve and who has championship pedigree, the clutch gene, and who does not share the me-first mentality of superstar players, based on everything we've seen and heard from him.
- A do-it-all wing with great size, feel, and touch who can slide into any role and switch across positions on D.

Remember how CP3 and Harden wouldn't be able to share the ball? Or how there wouldn't be enough shots for Steph, KD and Klay? Yeah, not worried.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: cman88 on May 16, 2018, 12:23:34 PM
Nah, the east is just incredibly weak. They're about as good as they were last season, which means they'll get destroyed by any of the good teams out west.

We got steamrolled last year and then danny blew up the team. We are a much better team than last year. Even brad said last years team probably collapses after a run like lebrons.

Also, do people forget how good the celtics were with Irving this year? Rozier is as much a ball stopper as kyrie...except kyrie shot nearly 50%.

Not too worried about shots. You need a team like this to win in the age of the Warriors. If anything having so many options will just make it easier for everyone else.

Imagine a lineup with irving/brown/hayward/tatum/horford on the floor at the same time. All guys can take you off the dribble and shoot the 3. How do you defend that? You cant double and trap irving like they did this year.

Im not worried
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Moranis on May 16, 2018, 12:24:07 PM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Russell Westbrook. Maybe LeBron. Hard to say.

I really don't know either. It's going to be next year's most interesting question. If everybody buys in and we hold on to Smart, this team could absolutely steamroll next year. A starting five that should be at least equal to Golden State, and a bench that is much, much better.

Not sure why anyone would be worried about adding two All-Stars to an already-good team - especially the type of players:

- An alpha dog scorer and ball-handler who will continue to improve and who has championship pedigree, the clutch gene, and who does not share the me-first mentality of superstar players, based on everything we've seen and heard from him.
- A do-it-all wing with great size, feel, and touch who can slide into any role and switch across positions on D.

Remember how CP3 and Harden wouldn't be able to share the ball? Or how there wouldn't be enough shots for Steph, KD and Klay? Yeah, not worried.
Harden and CP3 play an awful lot of my turn your turn on offense.  The Rockets offense in general is very iso heavy.  That isn't a great example of conforming to a pass happy offense. Klay, Steph, and KD have never been big iso players.  They've always been passers/shooters, so of course you could fit them in well together. 
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: ozgod on May 16, 2018, 05:11:53 PM
I agree with what Moranis is saying. I guess the question is how all this looks to Kyrie. He left Cleveland so he could be the alpha. Now he's watching what the young guns can do when they get a lot of room. How does he see himself fitting in when he comes back? Clearly, it can't be the way it was early this year. How does he see himself sharing the ball with three other scorers(!) who are either established all-stars (Hayward) or players trending that way fast (Brown and Tatum). Al is a swiss army knife - his awesomeness is, in part, his willingness to do whatever needs doing. Does Kyrie have that in him? Does he want to? I don't know.
Nobody knows, but you have to figure the pressure is taken off him by having 4 other legit scorers on the floor, most of the time.  That should giver him better looks and he doesn't always have to create his own shot.  What superstar wouldn't want that?

Russell Westbrook. Maybe LeBron. Hard to say.

I really don't know either. It's going to be next year's most interesting question. If everybody buys in and we hold on to Smart, this team could absolutely steamroll next year. A starting five that should be at least equal to Golden State, and a bench that is much, much better.

Not sure why anyone would be worried about adding two All-Stars to an already-good team - especially the type of players:

- An alpha dog scorer and ball-handler who will continue to improve and who has championship pedigree, the clutch gene, and who does not share the me-first mentality of superstar players, based on everything we've seen and heard from him.
- A do-it-all wing with great size, feel, and touch who can slide into any role and switch across positions on D.

Remember how CP3 and Harden wouldn't be able to share the ball? Or how there wouldn't be enough shots for Steph, KD and Klay? Yeah, not worried.

We're only going to be stronger next year with Kyrie and Gordon back. People forget that Kyrie was a big part of us winning 55 games this season and winning 16 in a row. It's Brad's job to make sure he assimilates them all into a team and everyone contributes no matter who is starting or how many minutes they are playing.

What I'm more concerned about is how we will be able to afford everyone, not necessarily next year but in 2019 onwards.  Smart is open to qualifying offers this summer and they will definitely be more than the 6m he is currently on. Kyrie has a player option for 2019 that he will probably opt out of to get a max. Morris' cap friendly $6m deal expires after next year. Al has a player option in 2020. Thankfully we have Brown and Tatum on rookie deals for at least 3 more years.

Who on this roster is expendable when the time comes to pay the likes of Smart and Kyrie? I'm hardly an expert on the salary cap so hopefully someone who knows more can provide insight.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Spicoli on May 16, 2018, 05:21:45 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: mctyson on May 16, 2018, 05:24:42 PM
Some of the best moves he made was trading IT4, Crowder(best contract in basketball) and AB

There was a ton of resistance from fans of trading these guys.

He was forced to trade AB due to the salary cap coming in lower, otherwise AB is probably on the roster at least until the All Star break.

Selling IT4 was, in hindsight, a brilliant move.  He will never have a season like he did last year.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: bknova on May 16, 2018, 05:25:00 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.

You don't think Kyrie is watching right now? You don't think he and Hayward are salivating at knowing how many options they have right now?  You don't think they're smart enough to pick their spots?

These guys are staring down multiple titles and a very long run as a top 3 to 4 contender every year.  It's not broke, so I'm confused as to what the hell everyone is trying to fix.  This is so weird!
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 16, 2018, 05:26:15 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.

Kyrie doesn’t hold on to it much longer than Rozier (barely more or less per possession) according to stats I saw posted on another site. Rozier tends to overdribble a lot, otherwise I agree that Kyrie doesn’t give up the ball enough
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: mctyson on May 16, 2018, 05:26:25 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

He creates way more offense for others than Rozier does, but I agree on the defense point.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Bobshot on May 16, 2018, 05:31:09 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

Something for Ainge/Stevens to consider after the season. Kyrie started the season dishing more than scoring, and by mid season he was scoring more than dishing, and the Celtics slowed down in the winning column.

The strength of the Celtics has always been ball distribution and even scoring--usually 5-6 guys in double figures. And that's been their identity in the playoffs so far, and undoubtedly a key to their success. It's one for all and all for one.

The play of Rozier has been unexpected. Given the opportunity with Irving's injury, he has broken out and must be considered serious competition for Kyrie. Though it's nice to have two top PGs in the backcourt.

Ainge will have his hands full sorting all this out after the season, with Hayward and Irving returning. He and Stevens never really found out how Hayward fits this season--just didn't play enough.

Perhaps they have hit on a special chemistry with Kyrie's injury. Maybe the answer will come with the rest of this series and the Championship finals, if they get there. It's possible Rozier gives them one more defensive piece. It's also possible Irving is learning something watching these games from the bench.

The NBA playoffs are about defense. The two best defensive teams are the Celtics and the Warriors. It looks like we'll see them both in the finals.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 16, 2018, 05:50:10 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.

You don't think Kyrie is watching right now? You don't think he and Hayward are salivating at knowing how many options they have right now?  You don't think they're smart enough to pick their spots?

These guys are staring down multiple titles and a very long run as a top 3 to 4 contender every year.  It's not broke, so I'm confused as to what the hell everyone is trying to fix.  This is so weird!


I think you are exactly correct.    Why in the world would we assume otherwise?   If time and performance proves the contrary, so be it --- but till then, why not assume that Kyrie and Gordon are watching this thinking "I can't wait to be a part of it". 

They see GSW and they see how a team with multiple excellent parts can all be involved and all share in the glory.  How much better a life will it be to be one of 7 high-level players operating as a finely-tuned winning machine than to be a singular or dual force on a mediocre team.   They could be ego-maniacal fools -- but I doubt it -- I think they are smart, well-compensated, team players who are champing at the bit to be championship contenders on a well-balanced, well-coached, intensely driven team of ballers.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Neurotic Guy on May 16, 2018, 05:58:43 PM
I am always hopeful, but at the same time I am always cautious about being overly optimistic.  Yet I can't help thinking that less than 60 wins next year would be a major disappointment if not a major shock.   How has Danny done this so quickly and without landing that transcendent draft pick (Lebron; Jordan; Bird; Magic) or the whoever the Lakers will get Free Agent.   Danny did it with good trades, smart picks, landing solid 2nd tier free agents, good salary management, and a little luck (hit #1 last year with the Nets pick).    Brilliant.   

So excited to be staring at a solid run of contention.... again.
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: bknova on May 16, 2018, 07:06:54 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.

You don't think Kyrie is watching right now? You don't think he and Hayward are salivating at knowing how many options they have right now?  You don't think they're smart enough to pick their spots?

These guys are staring down multiple titles and a very long run as a top 3 to 4 contender every year.  It's not broke, so I'm confused as to what the hell everyone is trying to fix.  This is so weird!


I think you are exactly correct.    Why in the world would we assume otherwise?   If time and performance proves the contrary, so be it --- but till then, why not assume that Kyrie and Gordon are watching this thinking "I can't wait to be a part of it". 

They see GSW and they see how a team with multiple excellent parts can all be involved and all share in the glory.  How much better a life will it be to be one of 7 high-level players operating as a finely-tuned winning machine than to be a singular or dual force on a mediocre team.   They could be ego-maniacal fools -- but I doubt it -- I think they are smart, well-compensated, team players who are champing at the bit to be championship contenders on a well-balanced, well-coached, intensely driven team of ballers.

Kyrie could play 30 mpg on this team next year and average 20 with 9 assist and the team could win 60 games.  He'll turn it on when he needs to turn it on.  He'll get his when the team needs him too.  Same with Hayward.  This whole narrative that "streaky "Terry is better for this team than Kyrie is, is ludicrous to me. 

Kyrie is the second best point guard in the game right now, about to enter his prime, with the best handles in the world, and he's on our team.  Thats a good thing! 
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Sophomore on May 16, 2018, 07:07:11 PM
I'm beginning to get concerned that Irving's ball dominance and iso heavy offensive style coupled with his bad defense will actually make Boston worse.

I think Kyrie is CLEARLY a better player than Rozier and it's not even close. However, this kind of concerns me as well. The one thing Rozier does well is give up the ball and not hold on to it for too long. Kyrie is the opposite. He probes until he finds an opening which causes a lot of the guys to stand around. I hope Kyrie is watching this and is coming to terms with how he's going to need to play while in Boston. If he buys in, we'll have a suped up version of scary terry on our hands.

You don't think Kyrie is watching right now? You don't think he and Hayward are salivating at knowing how many options they have right now?  You don't think they're smart enough to pick their spots?

These guys are staring down multiple titles and a very long run as a top 3 to 4 contender every year.  It's not broke, so I'm confused as to what the hell everyone is trying to fix.  This is so weird!


I think you are exactly correct.    Why in the world would we assume otherwise?   If time and performance proves the contrary, so be it --- but till then, why not assume that Kyrie and Gordon are watching this thinking "I can't wait to be a part of it". 

They see GSW and they see how a team with multiple excellent parts can all be involved and all share in the glory.  How much better a life will it be to be one of 7 high-level players operating as a finely-tuned winning machine than to be a singular or dual force on a mediocre team.   They could be ego-maniacal fools -- but I doubt it -- I think they are smart, well-compensated, team players who are champing at the bit to be championship contenders on a well-balanced, well-coached, intensely driven team of ballers.

I think/hope so. I still think if you're Kyrie Irving, you might be looking to show out and you really shine playing iso ball. It will be interesting to see how the team tries to play together.

The other question I keep having is whether the Cs will send out a PG for a young big - the future Al. My main worry about this team's future is that Al could go down with an injury or decline faster than we'd like. If a wing or guard goes down there is talent ready to step up. But replacing Al with Theis or Baynes is a huge falloff - and we may not be able to afford Baynes next year without going into the luxury tax, so it could be a lesser player still. We have to get by Philly or Milwaukee. We *need* quality big(s).
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: cman88 on May 16, 2018, 07:39:21 PM
yeah, im not really sure Terry vs. Kyrie is even an argument. Terry Rozier is probably a starter on a playoff team...but hes streaky and really hasnt come through on the road like he has at home.

Kyrie irving on the other hand is a superstar. Do people forget we were winning with Kyrie Irving? and he was a big reason we have homecourt advantage?

If you are looking to beat GSW you need MORE stars, not less....
Title: Re: Danny has built a contender
Post by: Ogaju on May 16, 2018, 08:01:21 PM
lol.....we need more stars not less...you can never have too much talent as long as they are willing to share the ball. See GSW.

Go CELTICS!!