CelticsStrong
Around the League => Transaction Ideas and Rumors => Topic started by: Phantom255x on May 04, 2018, 12:06:37 PM
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By *logical*, I mean reasonable trade ideas that work in the NBA Trade Machine and aren't as absurd (like people randomly on Facebook or w/e posting, "Larkin + Nader for Kawhi!" :P)
TRADE IDEA 1: Marcus Smart (S&T: 10-12M), Terry Rozier, Marcus Morris, 2019 Grizzlies Pick FOR Kawhi Leonard
TRADE IDEA 2: Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Morris, Abdel Nader, ONE of Yabusele/Ojeyele + 2019 Grizzlies Pick FOR Kawhi Leonard
Those are the two ideas that would hypothetically get it done.
ANALYSIS ON TRADE IDEA 1: Now I know people are going to read that first offer and think I'm being a huge homer and that the Spurs would laugh at that offer, and guess what, they probably will. BUT if you replace Morris or Rozier in that trade with a Brown, I think that's an overkill on our side to be honest. And remember, salaries have to match, so unless Smart's S&T $$$ is a little higher, we probably have to do Smart + 2 of Brown/Rozier/Morris to get it done. But this trade also doesn't kill our bench/depth.
ANALYSIS ON TRADE IDEA 2: This is probably the most reasonable out of the two for BOTH sides. I think Spurs look hard at this trade. Rozier's stock has risen a ton, and they get Brown back in the trade. Might be an extremely tough pill for BOS to swallow though. It does hurt out bench depth a bit, but if we assume that we keep Marcus Smart using his Bird Rights, we should be fine in that regard. We keep Tatum, add Leonard, maybe add and/or bring back a big using MLE, and go from there.
Personally, I DON'T see us trading for Kawhi this summer, and don't want us to either. But this was just a quick analysis I put together and frankly I think these are the two *logical* trade ideas for Ainge to consider. Sure, they could trade Horford + Rozier for Kawhi + Gasol, but I don't see Horford being dealt. Looks bad if you trade your first marquee FA signing in history within 2.5 years (Isaiah trade already looks bad enough). Also creates a big hole in the front court that a washed up Gasol isn't filling. And NO WAY should Ainge even consider trading both Jaylen and Tatum in a Kawhi trade.
So, thoughts? Or any adjustments to the trade ideas? Again, I don't see us trading for Kawhi, but these are just ideas/analysis for "fun" discussion ;D
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Thoughts: we have kyrie irving and Gordon hayward being added to this team next year. The need to trade assets for a damaged goods star is exaggerated. We do not need kawhi.
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Thoughts: we have kyrie irving and Gordon hayward being added to this team next year. The need to trade assets for a damaged goods star is exaggerated. We do not need kawhi.
Agreed, but guess what, that won't stop the rumors all summer long :P
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
List?
That's a new one to me.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
Anyone who does not have Boston on his list at this point is not serious about winning.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
Anyone who does not have Boston on his list at this point is not serious about winning.
The idea that you can only win in Boston is such a strawman. I'd love me a player who thinks he's good enough to go anywhere and lead the team to wins.
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Why not just take Option 1 and throw in the Sac pick? It's not like we would need it anyways.
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Why not just take Option 1 and throw in the Sac pick? It's not like we would need it anyways.
Largely because Smart will be a base year compensation player under this scenario, so the question of whether and how such a transaction would be even possible under the cap rules is not exactly straightforward.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
List?
That's a new one to me.
It's according to multiple reports online. Maybe not a list, but his camp reportedly wants him to go to a bigger market, which all 5 of them are. Miami was only in one report though as a possibility, but it is a big market too. Probably should have been clearer when I said "according to his list" (meaning multiple reports). :P
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I accidentally watched First Take this morning (I know, I know) and there was an entire segment on this in regards to Kawhi.
SAS thought we should trade Kyrie for Kawhi in a straight up trade of 'five star' players. Here, Rozier and Smart would take over playmaking duties and the rest of our team would be a switching nightmare for other teams.
Kellerman thought that a trade of Hayward/Rozier/a pick for Kawhi would be best since we would get to keep both 'five star' players while taking advantage of Rozier's increased value the year before his contract expires.
I realize there is an entire thread on Kawhi that has gotten quite extensive, but I am not sure I want to give up Rozier at all right now. Not that I definitely want to deal Kyrie, but Rozier is finally combining some control with his elite athleticism. He is also so engaged on both ends - the dude is just electric. I would hate to just deal him for a mid-1st.
The above is from another thread discussing Kyrie and Rozier's value, but it wasn't gaining much steam and I thought it might be more relevant here. I don't ever do the 'copy and paste' post thing - sorry if it comes off as tacky. The other thread is here:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0)
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
Anyone who does not have Boston on his list at this point is not serious about winning.
The idea that you can only win in Boston is such a strawman. I'd love me a player who thinks he's good enough to go anywhere and lead the team to wins.
It’s a list, Koz. Not saying we’re the only team. But if you or your agent gives a list of 5 teams you’d accept a trade to, you’d think Celtics would be on the list, if he’s trying to play for a championship. It’s consensus that Philly and Boston are the two best teams of the future, GS and Houston the best teams today.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
That's why I think, if the Suns are willing to give up their own first rounder this year (likely Top-2), then they'll land Kawhi. Suns could offer that pick + others and probably beat everyone else's offer (unless if LAL actually offers Ingram + Kuzma + Hart).
The Suns aren't getting Kawhi because he will inform them he will not resign with the franchise.
Same thing Kyrie did.
True, his preferences are LAL, LAC, MIA, NYK or PHI according to his list.
Anyone who does not have Boston on his list at this point is not serious about winning.
Anyone who does not have Boston on his list isn't deserving of wearing the green and playing for the fans of Boston...period.
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Why not just take Option 1 and throw in the Sac pick? It's not like we would need it anyways.
Largely because Smart will be a base year compensation player under this scenario, so the question of whether and how such a transaction would be even possible under the cap rules is not exactly straightforward.
I think this package is very difficult to beat.
You get Rozier on a rookie deal and he's been killing it.
You get Smart locked up.
You get Marcus Morris on a cheap contract that you can either play him or flip him for a low first round pick to a championship contender.
And you get 2 great first round picks.
The Philly proposals I've been seeing are basically garbage: this year's pick, Fultz, Saric, Covington. No one wants that trash.
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I accidentally watched First Take this morning (I know, I know) and there was an entire segment on this in regards to Kawhi.
SAS thought we should trade Kyrie for Kawhi in a straight up trade of 'five star' players. Here, Rozier and Smart would take over playmaking duties and the rest of our team would be a switching nightmare for other teams.
Kellerman thought that a trade of Hayward/Rozier/a pick for Kawhi would be best since we would get to keep both 'five star' players while taking advantage of Rozier's increased value the year before his contract expires.
I realize there is an entire thread on Kawhi that has gotten quite extensive, but I am not sure I want to give up Rozier at all right now. Not that I definitely want to deal Kyrie, but Rozier is finally combining some control with his elite athleticism. He is also so engaged on both ends - the dude is just electric. I would hate to just deal him for a mid-1st.
The above is from another thread discussing Kyrie and Rozier's value, but it wasn't gaining much steam and I thought it might be more relevant here. I don't ever do the 'copy and paste' post thing - sorry if it comes off as tacky. The other thread is here:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0)
Hey! I was watching First Take too, as it was on the TV at the gym lol :laugh:
Yeah I saw that segment too. I just don't think Hayward is getting traded. No FA would ever want to come to BOS if they trade him in just a year after he got injured (would look real bad).
I'll admit, the Kyrie for Kawhi swap is not as crazy as it sounded 2 weeks ago, but I still think it's crazy lol. I wouldn't do it.
But man SAS looked excited that entire segment lol :P
LINK: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DINzK764J70
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I think both of the OP's offers are too much. At this point, I'm not giving up anything of value without some serious confidence that he's willing to resign here at the end of the season.
Mike
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I accidentally watched First Take this morning (I know, I know) and there was an entire segment on this in regards to Kawhi.
SAS thought we should trade Kyrie for Kawhi in a straight up trade of 'five star' players. Here, Rozier and Smart would take over playmaking duties and the rest of our team would be a switching nightmare for other teams.
Kellerman thought that a trade of Hayward/Rozier/a pick for Kawhi would be best since we would get to keep both 'five star' players while taking advantage of Rozier's increased value the year before his contract expires.
I realize there is an entire thread on Kawhi that has gotten quite extensive, but I am not sure I want to give up Rozier at all right now. Not that I definitely want to deal Kyrie, but Rozier is finally combining some control with his elite athleticism. He is also so engaged on both ends - the dude is just electric. I would hate to just deal him for a mid-1st.
The above is from another thread discussing Kyrie and Rozier's value, but it wasn't gaining much steam and I thought it might be more relevant here. I don't ever do the 'copy and paste' post thing - sorry if it comes off as tacky. The other thread is here:
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=96107.0)
Hey! I was watching First Take too, as it was on the TV at the gym lol :laugh:
Yeah I saw that segment too. I just don't think Hayward is getting traded. No FA would ever want to come to BOS if they trade him in just a year after he got injured (would look real bad).
I'll admit, the Kyrie for Kawhi swap is not as crazy as it sounded 2 weeks ago, but I still think it's crazy lol. I wouldn't do it.
But man SAS looked excited that entire segment lol :P
LINK: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DINzK764J70
Not like we'll have the cap space nor the roster opening available even if we did ;)
But cannot trade Hayward, would break CBS's heart.
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Do we really need another wing? I feel like we need another playmaking big man who can defend.
I just don’t see Kawhi moving the needle based on what we’d give up...
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I just realized... could the Knicks trade for Kawhi, THEN sign Lebron this summer? :o
I mean, that's a Big 3 of Kawhi/Lebron/Porzingis with still some solid pieces leftover. Also, Lebron loves Fizdale. As long as they can put together a decent bench, they probably become a contender.
Now maybe Kanter wouldn't like it, but Knicks FO obviously would :P
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I'd say absolutely not to both trade ideas
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I think both of the OP's offers are too much. At this point, I'm not giving up anything of value without some serious confidence that he's willing to resign here at the end of the season.
Mike
They probably are, but again, it's the most logical ideas that I could come up with. Difficult to formulate a trade w/o gutting the team, or giving up multiple significant pieces since we don't have any player with an Amir or Zeller-like 8-12 M salary anymore.
You have Morris, Tatum and Brown at around 4-7M next season, but then after that you jump to Irving at 19M, then Horford, Hayward.
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Stephen A today felt if Boston was going to go after Kawhi Leonard, in light of the emergence of Terry Rozier, the most logical trade would be Kyrie straight up for Leonard.
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Stephen A today felt if Boston was going to go after Kawhi Leonard, in light of the emergence of Terry Rozier, the most logical trade would be Kyrie straight up for Leonard.
Yep, me and @jambr380 were talking about it above!
I think that's a pretty crazy take and wouldn't do it though. But, it's not as crazy right now as it was if someone had suggested it weeks ago :P
I wonder if NYK trades for Kawhi, then signs Lebron.
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Hey! I was watching First Take too, as it was on the TV at the gym lol :laugh:
Yeah I saw that segment too. I just don't think Hayward is getting traded. No FA would ever want to come to BOS if they trade him in just a year after he got injured (would look real bad).
I'll admit, the Kyrie for Kawhi swap is not as crazy as it sounded 2 weeks ago, but I still think it's crazy lol. I wouldn't do it.
But man SAS looked excited that entire segment lol :P
LINK: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DINzK764J70
I don't think it is likely that we trade Hayward, but I think it could be done in a respectful way that would allow the Cs to come off as not the worst organization in sports. Sometimes players develop better than you could hope during a long-term injury and a team's direction changes. The Patriots aren't a prime example as Drew Bledsoe had been with the team since he was drafted, but he had just signed a huge contract and then Tom Brady happened and Bledsoe was soon in Buffalo.
If the Cs talked with Hayward and he showed some interest in playing for Pop, then it's possible it doesn't blow up in their faces.
No matter what, if Cs have an opportunity to acquire Kawhi with Hayward as the only main piece, then they have to try to find a way to make that happen.
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Not interested in Kawhi.
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Wait there are actually people who would turn down #1? Put down the drugs.
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So, thoughts? Or any adjustments to the trade ideas? Again, I don't see us trading for Kawhi, but these are just ideas/analysis for "fun" discussion
You answered your own question. We are not trading for him and one has to think that his reputation league wide has took a hit after the ways things went down in SA due to his decisions. He belongs in LA, I hope they get him and I hope LeBron, too goes there so we can beat both of them as Lakers.
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I only see Kawhi for Irving in a very unlikely mega-domino type way, such as:
We land the #2/#3 pick this year in the lottery.
We deal Brown, #2 pick, 1st rounder, salary filler for Anthony Davis.
We deal Irving for Kawhi.
Then you'd be in some NBA Live fantasy where we run with:
starters: Rozier/ Hayward/ Kawhi/ Horford/ Davis
bench: Smart/ Tatum/ Morris/ Theis/ Baynes
We'd have two DPOY + MVP candidates, two more All-Stars, plus Rozier + Smart + Tatum.
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I only see Kawhi for Irving in a very unlikely mega-domino type way, such as:
We land the #2/#3 pick this year in the lottery.
We deal Brown, #2 pick, 1st rounder, salary filler for Anthony Davis.
We deal Irving for Kawhi.
Then you'd be in some NBA Live fantasy where we run with:
starters: Rozier/ Hayward/ Kawhi/ Horford/ Davis
bench: Smart/ Tatum/ Morris/ Theis/ Baynes
We'd have two DPOY + MVP candidates, two more All-Stars, plus Rozier + Smart + Tatum.
That would be nice. But Davis I'd assume is untouchable for NOP now, and he probably wants to give it another go with a healthy Cousins and company next season.
It would be an interesting wrinkle if that LAL Pick did somehow convey THIS year.
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I only see Kawhi for Irving in a very unlikely mega-domino type way, such as:
We land the #2/#3 pick this year in the lottery.
We deal Brown, #2 pick, 1st rounder, salary filler for Anthony Davis.
We deal Irving for Kawhi.
Then you'd be in some NBA Live fantasy where we run with:
starters: Rozier/ Hayward/ Kawhi/ Horford/ Davis
bench: Smart/ Tatum/ Morris/ Theis/ Baynes
We'd have two DPOY + MVP candidates, two more All-Stars, plus Rozier + Smart + Tatum.
That would be nice. But Davis I'd assume is untouchable for NOP now, and he probably wants to give it another go with a healthy Cousins and company next season.
It would be an interesting wrinkle if that LAL Pick did somehow convey THIS year.
Yeah I agree. Davis would have to freak out after losing to GSW and demand out, pretty much for this to have any chance. And still they ask for Brown *and* Tatum.
I do think the pick conveying early would get really interesting, though. We don't need another young body, it's a $7M salary that opens up trades... etc etc
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I only see Kawhi for Irving in a very unlikely mega-domino type way, such as:
We land the #2/#3 pick this year in the lottery.
We deal Brown, #2 pick, 1st rounder, salary filler for Anthony Davis.
We deal Irving for Kawhi.
Then you'd be in some NBA Live fantasy where we run with:
starters: Rozier/ Hayward/ Kawhi/ Horford/ Davis
bench: Smart/ Tatum/ Morris/ Theis/ Baynes
We'd have two DPOY + MVP candidates, two more All-Stars, plus Rozier + Smart + Tatum.
That would be nice. But Davis I'd assume is untouchable for NOP now, and he probably wants to give it another go with a healthy Cousins and company next season.
It would be an interesting wrinkle if that LAL Pick did somehow convey THIS year.
Yeah I agree. Davis would have to freak out after losing to GSW and demand out, pretty much for this to have any chance.
I do think the pick conveying early would get really interesting, though. We don't need another young body, it's a $7M salary that opens up trades... etc etc
Yeah, exactly. Suddenly, you might be able to acquire Kawhi Leonard with just that pick (between 6-7M), Rozier + Morris, OR Smart (S&T) + Lakers Pick (2/3) + Another Future Pick. (Basically, keep BOTH Jaylen + Tatum, and Kyrie)
But I've moved on a long a time ago and am looking forward to #KingsPickWatch ;D
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I only see Kawhi for Irving in a very unlikely mega-domino type way, such as:
We land the #2/#3 pick this year in the lottery.
We deal Brown, #2 pick, 1st rounder, salary filler for Anthony Davis.
We deal Irving for Kawhi.
Then you'd be in some NBA Live fantasy where we run with:
starters: Rozier/ Hayward/ Kawhi/ Horford/ Davis
bench: Smart/ Tatum/ Morris/ Theis/ Baynes
We'd have two DPOY + MVP candidates, two more All-Stars, plus Rozier + Smart + Tatum.
That would be nice. But Davis I'd assume is untouchable for NOP now, and he probably wants to give it another go with a healthy Cousins and company next season.
It would be an interesting wrinkle if that LAL Pick did somehow convey THIS year.
Yeah I agree. Davis would have to freak out after losing to GSW and demand out, pretty much for this to have any chance. And still they ask for Brown *and* Tatum.
I do think the pick conveying early would get really interesting, though. We don't need another young body, it's a $7M salary that opens up trades... etc etc
Like you said, definitely would be interesting if the pick conveyed this year. Ainge would be driving us nuts as we waited to see what he’s do. Also, he’s collect his executive of the millennium award.
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I would be perfectly happy just trying to keep the current team together and healthy.
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I would be perfectly happy just trying to keep the current team together and healthy.
AMEN!
As constituted with Irving and hayward next season and maybe a few Veteran bench players who can score? Your the odds on favorite to win it all!
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We don't need to add a malcontent to the team.
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The Spurs aren't going to accept any deal that doesn't both the Kings pick and one of Tatum/Brown.
So they want the better player and a pick.....hmmmm....gotta say no. Hit the road Jack
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We don't need to add a malcontent to the team.
Injured malcontent. Injured malcontent.
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Its gonna be really hard for DA to resist , if leonard ends up truely being on the block .
Not sure if he should do anything .
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Guys, if you read the original post, I didn't explicitly advocate we do any of these deals NOR did I say, "Okay, Ainge HAS to go after Leonard for sure this summer".
Nope, I just presented IMO the ONLY two "logical" trade ideas Ainge should consider if he wants to discuss a Kawhi trade this off season. By logical, meaning trades that work in the trade machine and would *probably* be fair to both sides (aka, doesn't gut Boston's team while SAS gets back value for "somewhat damaged goods" depending on what other offers Spurs get for him).
If you don't want us to even consider a trade OR feel strongly about Kawhi being a "headcase" or whatever, that's a different debate.