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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 25, 2018, 09:26:07 AM

Title: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 25, 2018, 09:26:07 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23295190/kawhi-leonard-trades-see-san-antonio-spurs-make-nba

It was a decent read. Most interesting (and annoying):

Lakers offer Ingram (nothing else)

Celtics offer Irving, 2018 Celtic 1st, and "whatever other picks needed"

So, in their mind, Irving, 2018 Celtic 1st, and "whatever other picks needed" is roughly equal to Brandon Ingram? Come on ... seriously?

Anyway, I'm happy with Irving, thanks. I'm happy with this entire team. No more big trades.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: timpiker on April 25, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
The pundits always steer the good stuff to their fav teams.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Androslav on April 25, 2018, 09:35:50 AM
The pundits always steer the good stuff to their fav teams.
Yes, I was surprised that the Knicks didn't have a "dream offer".
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Big333223 on April 25, 2018, 09:52:31 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: jambr380 on April 25, 2018, 09:59:15 AM
The Lakers and Heat offers are kind-of a joke (especially Lakers). That exact Ohilly deal has been proposed on here before, but I have to imagine other teams would be able to beat that.

The Cs deal seems just about on point - except the part about including the Sac pick. Irving and a late 1st would work for both sides. Our starting line-up would be hilarious and incredible at the same time!
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 10:07:13 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: TA9 on April 25, 2018, 10:10:47 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: smokeablount on April 25, 2018, 10:11:05 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23295190/kawhi-leonard-trades-see-san-antonio-spurs-make-nba

It was a decent read. Most interesting (and annoying):

Lakers offer Ingram (nothing else)

Celtics offer Irving, 2018 Celtic 1st, and "whatever other picks needed"

So, in their mind, Irving, 2018 Celtic 1st, and "whatever other picks needed" is roughly equal to Brandon Ingram? Come on ... seriously?

Anyway, I'm happy with Irving, thanks. I'm happy with this entire team. No more big trades.

Of course they're equal!  Irving is an NBA champ and one of the best closers in the world, and Brandon Ingram played 20 good games in a row in March.  THEY ARE LIKE BROTHERS
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 10:11:14 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 10:11:46 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Big333223 on April 25, 2018, 10:16:23 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: greece66 on April 25, 2018, 10:19:31 AM
I don't know much about Leonard's situation in SAS. I've read some rumours that he wants out, but I don't see SAS earning much trading the last year of his contract.

I don't see teams offering much for a player who missed nearly the whole season - at the very least they would want Leonard to be examined by their own doctors before making a deal.

If I were the Lakers I wouldn't trade Ingram for Leonard. Needless to say the same goes for the suggested BOS trade.

Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 25, 2018, 10:19:49 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

I really don't want this thread to degrade into another debate on Kyrie Irving, or for that matter, what we would give up for Leonard.

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 10:23:51 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.

Leonard when healthy is a better player than Kyrie

He can do a few more things better vs Kyrie who is mainly an offensive weapon

Leonard also can play the facilitator, be the go to guy, shutdown D.   

Logjam or not, thats a luxury you worry about later

Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 10:26:37 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

I really don't want this thread to degrade into another debate on Kyrie Irving, or for that matter, what we would give up for Leonard.

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

It doesn't work that way

anyways these ideas are ESPN wild imagination running loose

If Spurs want anything from the Celtics it would be something along the lines of Brown, Rozier and future 1st not Kyrie

Spurs once they trade Leonard will go on semi rebuild mode.  I don't even think Popovich will be back
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: mef730 on April 25, 2018, 10:29:47 AM

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

Well, of course he is, because, ya know, Lakers.

Mike
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Big333223 on April 25, 2018, 10:32:50 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.

Leonard when healthy is a better player than Kyrie

He can do a few more things better vs Kyrie who is mainly an offensive weapon

Leonard also can play the facilitator, be the go to guy, shutdown D.   

Logjam or not, thats a luxury you worry about later

While I agree that Leonard has been a better player than Kyrie, he is not a facilitator.

This is the kind of deal that feels like a fantasy league trade. "Leonard is better than Kyrie so the team will be better if Kyrie is traded for Leonard." Except it doesn't work like that in the real world. Adding Leonard bumps someone out of the depth chart (Tatum or Brown?) and elevates someone else who isn't going to be as good (Rozier).

Meanwhile, as great as Leonard is (when healthy) there are now serious questions about his mindset and having 5 guys who essentially play the same position means you're getting diminishing returns on what each player brings.

It seems like a disaster from a team building perspective.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Erik on April 25, 2018, 10:32:50 AM
I like Marcus Morris, Rozier, S&T Marcus Smart + SAC19. That's the best offer that SAS will get. We paid less for Kyrie.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Eddie20 on April 25, 2018, 10:41:07 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that Celtic trade would be idiotic? The C's would have Leonard, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Morris and no proven starting point guard. It makes no sense to me at all.

Rozier and Smart say hi

On a roster like that, these two would be more than good enough to handle the PG duties. Especially on the defensive end

Horford Leonard Brown Tatum Rozier/Smart

would be a killer lineup
No spot for Hayward in that lineup ;D?

Jokes aside, I agree. We wouldn't need a PG that is capable of scoring in bunches if we acquire Leonard (Hayward, Brown, Leonard etc. can take care of that).

see I forgot how stacked we are lol

So Tatum comes from the bench then

This is what I was getting at: The deal would be for the C's to send out their best ballhandler to bring back a player at a position where there is already a logjam.

Leonard when healthy is a better player than Kyrie

He can do a few more things better vs Kyrie who is mainly an offensive weapon

Leonard also can play the facilitator, be the go to guy, shutdown D.   

Logjam or not, thats a luxury you worry about later

While I agree that Leonard has been a better player than Kyrie, he is not a facilitator.

This is the kind of deal that feels like a fantasy league trade. "Leonard is better than Kyrie so the team will be better if Kyrie is traded for Leonard." Except it doesn't work like that in the real world. Adding Leonard bumps someone out of the depth chart (Tatum or Brown?) and elevates someone else who isn't going to be as good (Rozier).

Meanwhile, as great as Leonard is (when healthy) there are now serious questions about his mindset and having 5 guys who essentially play the same position means you're getting diminishing returns on what each player brings.

It seems like a disaster from a team building perspective.

I wouldn't do the trade as constituted, but a starting five of Tatum, Hayward, Horford, Brown, and Leonard is scary stuff. Offensively speaking, all of those players can handle the ball and/or lead a break. They also can shoot/play off-the-ball, so spacing would be unreal. Plus, who does the opposing PG cover?

Defensively, everyone is able to switch everything. It'll be a swarming and athletic defense that is filled with length.

Rozier and Smart would still get plenty of minutes, but coming off the bench. This of course assuming Smart is re-signed and Rozier is not traded away.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 25, 2018, 10:42:59 AM
I like Marcus Morris, Rozier, S&T Marcus Smart + SAC19. That's the best offer that SAS will get. We paid less for Kyrie.

I don't.

Love Kawhi, but he currently has a lot of red flags. Meanwhile, Morris is emerging as a legit 15 PPG scoring option off the bench, Smart's impact has been contagious in a positive way for us, and that SAC 19 pick is likely a Top-5 pick. Sounds like a ton to be honest. I'd rather not.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: kozlodoev on April 25, 2018, 10:52:03 AM
My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?
Your main point is kind of moot, because this isn't an article by an author, it's a collection of a bunch of trades suggested and analyzed by a bunch of  different NBA insiders.

And for the Ingram trade, in particular, Pelton (the guy who suggested the LA swap with Ingram) clearly states that other teams can offer more, so it's conditional on the Spurs believing Ingram is a better prospect than anything they can get.

Pretty much a non-issue.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Fafnir on April 25, 2018, 10:55:15 AM
Glad to see giving up 3 bench players for a MVP caliber player is still the best possible offer here.

*gravelly voice over*
Celticsblog, Celticsblog never changes.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Birdman on April 25, 2018, 11:04:06 AM
Keep the team as is..hayward, irving and theiss coming back..resign smart and monroe..dont trade tatum or brown
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: johnnygreen on April 25, 2018, 11:06:06 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

I really don't want this thread to degrade into another debate on Kyrie Irving, or for that matter, what we would give up for Leonard.

My main point in posting it was that the author thought Ingram was roughly equivalent value to Irving + 18 1st. Thoughts on that?

The problem is that your just looking at the names involved and not the other half of the equation. The benefit/value of trading with the Lakers is that they’re under the cap, and the salaries don’t have to match. The question becomes how much value the Spurs have in a roughly $15 million trade exception that they would have one year to use. Also, would the shift in salary allow the Spurs to be spenders in free agency.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: wdleehi on April 25, 2018, 11:06:52 AM
Unless the move is for a star level big, I rather keep the top 5 players (Irving, Hayward, Horford, Brown and Tatum) intact.   
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 25, 2018, 11:12:57 AM
Glad to see giving up 3 bench players for a MVP caliber player is still the best possible offer here.

*gravelly voice over*
Celticsblog, Celticsblog never changes.

The three bench players are currently playing, engaged and contributing to playoff wins.

The other guy is in NY while his team just got eliminated probably looking at catalogs of Milwaukee, LA (Clips or Lakers), etc.

And even if he's solely staying out just to be cautious with his injury, then we can't ignore that he just missed an entire season due to it. Sounds big honestly.

Also, a suggested trade was Ingram for Kawhi. You're telling me Ingram ALONE is getting an MVP-Caliber talent? Wow.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Ed Hollison on April 25, 2018, 11:15:52 AM
Keep the team as is..hayward, irving and theiss coming back..resign smart and monroe..dont trade tatum or brown

Ditto. We are also forgetting that the team has already pushed the envelope on the heels of trading away favorite son IT. Players around the league pay attention and remember these things, that is cutting loose a top-5 MVP candidate after playing on a bum hip and suffering through his sister's tragic death. I'm not saying it was the wrong move to acquire Irving, but I'm saying the Celtics spent a good amount of their goodwill on that move.

Now, on the heels of that, you're telling me it's the right move to trade Irving for another upgrade? I'm not even sure it would be right to trade Horford, their biggest free agent acquisition in decades, in a package for Davis. That's how strongly I feel about this.

Let this team with Irving, Hayward, Horford, and the kids try it out for at least a season before you start tinkering. The Celtics are in a good spot: two budding superstars on rookie contracts, who won't get paid until other max guys roll off of theirs. Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 25, 2018, 11:17:19 AM
Yeah, if you're telling me Ingram in value = Kyrie + 2018 BOS 1st + extra picks, sorry but that's just ridiculous. Doesn't matter if the Lakers are well under the cap to make it feasible, it's still ridiculous.

I don't see why the Spurs do that Lakers trade at all unless if no one else even makes an offer (like DeMarcus Cousins before he ultimately got dealt to the Pelicans for less than expected).

Lakers definitely have to throw in more pieces. That ESPN idea is ridiculous. And C's aren't dealing Kyrie.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Tr1boy on April 25, 2018, 11:18:53 AM
Yeah, if you're telling me Ingram in value = Kyrie + 2018 BOS 1st + extra picks, sorry but that's just ridiculous.

I don't see why the Spurs do that Lakers trade at all unless if no one else even makes an offer (like DeMarcus Cousins before he ultimately got dealt to the Pelicans for less than expected).

Lakers definitely have to throw in more pieces. That ESPN idea is ridiculous. And C's aren't dealing Kyrie.

You can't think of it that way

Plus why on earth would Lakers trade Leonard for Ingram straight up? 

Leonard for Brown maybe....but Ingram is injury prone
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: footey on April 25, 2018, 11:23:15 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

Id be more worried about Kyrie passing physical than Kawhi.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Fafnir on April 25, 2018, 11:24:24 AM
Also, a suggested trade was Ingram for Kawhi. You're telling me Ingram ALONE is getting an MVP-Caliber talent? Wow.
Ingram is worth more than 3 bench players despite those three players impacting winning right now more than him, that's how it works in the NBA. Star or star potential is greater than a bunch of good players.

I love this team an awful lot, but if you're making a trade for a all-star you don't give up bench pieces. You give up lottery picks or equivalent young talent. Kawhi doesn't have the leverage of FA like CP3 did after all.

If he is traded I think its similar to the PG/Butler trade, just depends how the leverage washes out. But Kawhi is better than both of them by a large margin so I think he'd fetch more.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Fafnir on April 25, 2018, 11:26:07 AM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)

Id be more worried about Kyrie passing physical than Kawhi.
I'm not worried about either of them passing the physical in the immediate aftermath. I'm worried about the injury issues lingering long term. Both Kyrie's knee and Kawhi's quad have been issues for multiple years now.

Just how it goes with basketball players though, both should be good to be back on the court next year. (fingers crossed)
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 25, 2018, 11:28:16 AM
Also, a suggested trade was Ingram for Kawhi. You're telling me Ingram ALONE is getting an MVP-Caliber talent? Wow.
Ingram is worth more than 3 bench players despite those three players impacting winning right now more than him, that's how it works in the NBA. Star or star potential is greater than a bunch of good players.

I love this team an awful lot, but if you're making a trade for a all-star you don't give up bench pieces. You give up lottery picks or equivalent young talent. Kawhi doesn't have the leverage of FA like CP3 did after all.

If he is traded I think its similar to the PG/Butler trade, just depends how the leverage washes out. But Kawhi is better than both of them by a large margin so I think he'd fetch more.

Okay, fair points. I'll admit that.

But the suggestion was also SAC 19 Pick. Could be a Top-5 pick.

Ingram is a star in the making, but would Morris, Rozier, Smart + SAC19 still be less in value than Ingram alone? I'd think if SAS liked Smart and got him at a reasonable rate, along with a young piece in Rozier, it could sway SAS to take Boston's deal. Or idk, maybe that's just me.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Fafnir on April 25, 2018, 11:56:33 AM
Ingram is a star in the making, but would Morris, Rozier, Smart + SAC19 still be less in value than Ingram alone? I'd think if SAS liked Smart and got him at a reasonable rate, along with a young piece in Rozier, it could sway SAS to take Boston's deal. Or idk, maybe that's just me.
The issue is that the Sacramento Pick  could as easily be the 8th pick as the 1st, especially given the flattened odds next year.

Just depends on how you evaluate next year's draft and Ingram. Given how high many are on Ingram (many had him over Simmons on their board) I think he'd be valued a lot more but its all on what the Spurs think.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Sophomore on April 25, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
This whole idea of Kyrie for Leonard kind of breaks my brain. I can imagine some lineups that could lay waste to the league, but then I worry - a lot - about building a team that might have to sit two of its best players at crunch time and has only one capable (and aging) big. Then add the question mark that is Kawhi - he's either got a nagging injury or just let everybody who depends on him go hang - his teammates, his coach, the team owners and fans. That's a heck of a lot of risk.

But, but, but -- Smart, Brown, Hayward, Kawhi, Horford. Can that group score and defend? Oh yes. Or if Tatum develops his PG skills, go mad scientist: Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Kawhi, Horford. I mean...

Then I remember the current team, if Hayward had been healthy, would probably have gone to the finals. Exhale. Relax. Sit tight - and hope for the Lakers pick to transfer via the lottery...
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Moranis on April 25, 2018, 01:10:41 PM
Ingram is a star in the making, but would Morris, Rozier, Smart + SAC19 still be less in value than Ingram alone? I'd think if SAS liked Smart and got him at a reasonable rate, along with a young piece in Rozier, it could sway SAS to take Boston's deal. Or idk, maybe that's just me.
The issue is that the Sacramento Pick  could as easily be the 8th pick as the 1st, especially given the flattened odds next year.

Just depends on how you evaluate next year's draft and Ingram. Given how high many are on Ingram (many had him over Simmons on their board) I think he'd be valued a lot more but its all on what the Spurs think.
It could also become Philly's 1st if it hits #1 and Philly's 1st will almost certainly be in the mid to high 20's next year.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Roy H. on April 25, 2018, 02:39:10 PM
Kawhi for Kyrie, I can understand.  Adding the Kings pick, like the article suggests? No thanks.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Moranis on April 25, 2018, 03:03:18 PM
Kawhi for Kyrie, I can understand.  Adding the Kings pick, like the article suggests? No thanks.
I thought it was Boston's 1st this year
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: ETNCeltics on April 25, 2018, 03:15:36 PM
Ainge isn't trading Kyrie, unless he expresses an interest in being traded. And few players are going to choose to go to SA and play with a roster with little else than role players when they can possibly contend for titles in Boston.

I think the most equitable trade for both teams (provided KL is healthy and wants Boston) would involve Brown. I just don't think there's a way to match salaries in a reasonable way. Personally, I'd love to get a healthy KL with his head on straight, but building around Tatum and Brown might be the best course we can take.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Roy H. on April 25, 2018, 03:31:14 PM
Kawhi for Kyrie, I can understand.  Adding the Kings pick, like the article suggests? No thanks.
I thought it was Boston's 1st this year

Nope.

Quote
Pending the physical, the Celtics would be best served by aggressively pursuing Leonard, going so far as to entertain adding additional picks (up to and including the Lakers/Kings pick owed from the Jayson Tatum deal last June).
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on April 25, 2018, 03:51:43 PM
I think it's interesting that opinions about Kyrie seem to have changed lately, both in the media and even here.  Beginning of the season he was considered the superstar the Celtics needed.  Boston was "his team."  Now he's brought up in trade rumors, people are questioning his character, etc.  It may be as simple as another shortened season due to injury.  But interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 25, 2018, 03:55:42 PM
I think it's interesting that opinions about Kyrie seem to have changed lately, both in the media and even here.  Beginning of the season he was considered the superstar the Celtics needed.  Boston was "his team."  Now he's brought up in trade rumors, people are questioning his character, etc.  It may be as simple as another shortened season due to injury.  But interesting nonetheless.

Lol @tarheels sees some skeptical comments about Kyrie made by folks here and starts celebrating  :P

Anyways even if we trade Kyrie for Kawhi, then what? Are we going to shop Kawhi for Davis or Lebron? Will that be the cycle?  :P
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: jambr380 on April 25, 2018, 03:57:47 PM
I think it's interesting that opinions about Kyrie seem to have changed lately, both in the media and even here.  Beginning of the season he was considered the superstar the Celtics needed.  Boston was "his team."  Now he's brought up in trade rumors, people are questioning his character, etc.  It may be as simple as another shortened season due to injury.  But interesting nonetheless.

In this case, I think it's because we have a chance to upgrade without giving up anything else of substance (would only do the BOS pick, not the SAC pick). The same goes for AD, but that dream seems to be waning. There are very few players Cs fans would be comfortable trading Kyrie for.

Kyrie was just named the Auerbach Award winner so I highly doubt he is on the block. In fact, I think part of the reason he was given this award was to entice him to stay and let him know that this is his team.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on April 25, 2018, 04:41:48 PM
I think it's interesting that opinions about Kyrie seem to have changed lately, both in the media and even here.  Beginning of the season he was considered the superstar the Celtics needed.  Boston was "his team."  Now he's brought up in trade rumors, people are questioning his character, etc.  It may be as simple as another shortened season due to injury.  But interesting nonetheless.

Lol @tarheels sees some skeptical comments about Kyrie made by folks here and starts celebrating  :P

Anyways even if we trade Kyrie for Kawhi, then what? Are we going to shop Kawhi for Davis or Lebron? Will that be the cycle?  :P

Not sure what you mean.  I didn't celebrate or even advocate for the trade in my post. 

I definitely wouldn't shop Davis for anyone. 
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: satch on April 25, 2018, 04:52:32 PM
I would do Kyrie +2018 first in a blink of an eye for Leonard (as long as he passes physical)
Don't think it will happen but I agree.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on April 25, 2018, 05:02:16 PM
I think it's interesting that opinions about Kyrie seem to have changed lately, both in the media and even here.  Beginning of the season he was considered the superstar the Celtics needed.  Boston was "his team."  Now he's brought up in trade rumors, people are questioning his character, etc.  It may be as simple as another shortened season due to injury.  But interesting nonetheless.

In this case, I think it's because we have a chance to upgrade without giving up anything else of substance (would only do the BOS pick, not the SAC pick). The same goes for AD, but that dream seems to be waning. There are very few players Cs fans would be comfortable trading Kyrie for.

Kyrie was just named the Auerbach Award winner so I highly doubt he is on the block. In fact, I think part of the reason he was given this award was to entice him to stay and let him know that this is his team.

That does make sense.  The upgrade would be nice, but I'm not sure that Rozier is consistent enough to be a starting PG, and we'd have a logjam at 2-4.  Unsure if Kawhi or Hayward could play the 4 full time; they may not even want to, that was an issue for Paul George.  Seems like Tatum could, but that would move Brown to the bench which doesn't seem like a good idea.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: keevsnick on April 25, 2018, 05:09:17 PM
Ya I think Ingram gets a tag bit overated. I like him as a player but hes roughly the same level of player as Brown is right now and you could certainly argue Brown is better. Ingram is younger by almost a year but given Brown superior athleticism and general rapid improvement I think their ceiling are very similar as well. Yet for whatever reason people argue treat ingram like a blue chip propect and Brown less so. I think people are still going off their draft evaluation where ingram was a high tier of propect. But that gap has closed
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 25, 2018, 06:14:46 PM
Yet for whatever reason people argue treat ingram like a blue chip propect and Brown less so. I think people are still going off their draft evaluation where ingram was a high tier of propect. But that gap has closed

I agree. Same reason Jahlil Okafor was constantly overrated.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: celticsclay on April 25, 2018, 06:39:53 PM
Ingram is a star in the making, but would Morris, Rozier, Smart + SAC19 still be less in value than Ingram alone? I'd think if SAS liked Smart and got him at a reasonable rate, along with a young piece in Rozier, it could sway SAS to take Boston's deal. Or idk, maybe that's just me.
The issue is that the Sacramento Pick  could as easily be the 8th pick as the 1st, especially given the flattened odds next year.

Just depends on how you evaluate next year's draft and Ingram. Given how high many are on Ingram (many had him over Simmons on their board) I think he'd be valued a lot more but its all on what the Spurs think.
It could also become Philly's 1st if it hits #1 and Philly's 1st will almost certainly be in the mid to high 20's next year.

Just to be clear for those that are not familiar with new odds and get freaked out by this, even if the kings finsihed with the absolute worst record in the league there would only be a 14% of this happening. In reality it is probably closer to 9-10%. So its only marginally more likely than Utah winning the west at this point (14 to 1 right now).
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 25, 2018, 06:57:18 PM
Will Leonard be the same player on another team , surely he ll be really good ,  but will he be great ?

pops has that reputation for players being better on this team . 

One aspect Leonards camp maybe looking at ...  CBS generally makes players successful or more than other coaches.   Maybe Leonard wants to play for Stevens who can do the same for him.

Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Rosco917 on April 28, 2018, 10:58:38 AM
If we trade KI who is the starting PG? Certainly not Rozier.

I like Terry, but he is years away from being a starting PG on a serious contender. I like his energy off the bench. But when he's on the floor and Horford is on the bench he's nothing more than a shooting guard.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Fan from VT on April 28, 2018, 12:49:37 PM
If we trade KI who is the starting PG? Certainly not Rozier.

I like Terry, but he is years away from being a starting PG on a serious contender. I like his energy off the bench. But when he's on the floor and Horford is on the bench he's nothing more than a shooting guard.

The only way trading Kyrie makes sense is if you think a Brown/Hayward/Tatum/Kawhi/Horford lineup has enough skilled ball handling to run ben simmons/lebron style PG duties, good ball movement, and switch duties of bringing the ball up the court vs the biggest mismatch there.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Sketch5 on April 28, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
At the beginning of the season I would have been fine with a Brown for Kawhi based trade, but how much Brown has jumped this season makes that a bit harder. Tatumn playing as well as he has for a young rookie playing a undersized PF has been impressive.

KI for Kawhi doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I don't think DA want's to subtract from Irving/Hayward/Horford, but add. So the question is, that are Brown and Tatumn worth giving up for Leonard. Hayward/Brown/Leonard all play the same positions, so Brown would have to be out, or come off the bench, which I'm not sure would be the best for him next season after the way Brown has played in this series.  Having Brown and Tatum create a great balance of youth and vet players in the starting line up.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 29, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
R.C Buford (In Background trying to give Ainge a high five): "Hey Danny, Brown or Tatum, Morris and picks for Kawhi, what do ya' say?"

Danny:

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/bd748c864a08dec6c976113741c1cc8f/tenor.gif?itemid=9137963)
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: konkmv on April 29, 2018, 11:17:38 AM
Keep the current roster... brown can be better
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: footey on April 29, 2018, 12:12:00 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Phantom255x on April 29, 2018, 01:01:05 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.

Or IF PHI loses this series, maybe it pushes them to make a Leonard trade this summer

I definitely think they're making an offer for him this summer
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: gouki88 on April 29, 2018, 01:18:54 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.

Or IF PHI loses this series, maybe it pushes them to make a Leonard trade this summer

I definitely think they're making an offer for him this summer
What offer would San Antonio accept that doesn't involve Simmons though?
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Roy H. on April 29, 2018, 01:24:42 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.

Or IF PHI loses this series, maybe it pushes them to make a Leonard trade this summer

I definitely think they're making an offer for him this summer
What offer would San Antonio accept that doesn't involve Simmons though?

It depends on whether the relationship is salvageable, and what the other offers are.

Covington + Fultz + Saric + Lakers pick is a strong offer.
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: gouki88 on April 29, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.

Or IF PHI loses this series, maybe it pushes them to make a Leonard trade this summer

I definitely think they're making an offer for him this summer
What offer would San Antonio accept that doesn't involve Simmons though?

It depends on whether the relationship is salvageable, and what the other offers are.

Covington + Fultz + Saric + Lakers pick is a strong offer.
That is a good offer, and I never really thought of them adding Saric because they seem to like him. Would be hard for SAS to say no, barring a better offer
Title: Re: ESPN Article 4 Trades for Kawhi Leonard
Post by: Big333223 on April 29, 2018, 07:28:27 PM
If our team was fully healthy, this series vs Sixers would help Ainge decide whether to pursue Leonard trade. Since we’re not, hard to gauge how we stack up vs them.

Or IF PHI loses this series, maybe it pushes them to make a Leonard trade this summer

I definitely think they're making an offer for him this summer
What offer would San Antonio accept that doesn't involve Simmons though?

It depends on whether the relationship is salvageable, and what the other offers are.

Covington + Fultz + Saric + Lakers pick is a strong offer.

Very strong. And maybe an overpay if teams are as scared of Kawhi's injury history as I would be.