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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: celticsclay on April 18, 2018, 07:16:37 PM

Title: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 18, 2018, 07:16:37 PM
desperately wanting one of their marquee teams to stay alive. What do you do? Call 2 fouls in 65 seconds on the opposing team's best player? Both of which were questionable, but the first the defender appeared to be in the circle (tp to anyone that can verify). Very disappointed to see this. just want to see the best team win without this stuff....
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: jpotter33 on April 18, 2018, 07:20:46 PM
I didn't get to see it, as I turned it on right as Dipo was heading to the bench. But I was thinking the same thing and also found it verrrrrrryyy suspicious that the opposing player's best player picks up two fouls that quickly after that surprising first loss in Cleveland, especially as good of a defender as Dipo is.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: MVPPierceNoJoke on April 18, 2018, 07:24:11 PM
It's disgusting and also very predictable
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 18, 2018, 07:30:53 PM
The thing is James is a tremendous player and does not need the help. The cavs are already playing great and on fire from 3. They would be up at this point whether or not oladipo was playing.  This is just bad for the integrity of the game.

Note we are not alone in noticing this:

https://twitter.com/mark_battista/status/986748248068108291
https://twitter.com/iTweet_SoEdited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline./status/986748236517052417
https://twitter.com/TravMoco/status/986748192128749569
https://twitter.com/trxpbianca/status/986748184440524800
https://twitter.com/phauser/status/986748119206518784
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Beat LA on April 18, 2018, 07:40:16 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/KWbmr5E1UdPUI/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 18, 2018, 07:40:38 PM
Oladipo gets two fouls in under a minute, but Giannis gets zero fouls for 3 quarters plus. NBA rules.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: blink on April 18, 2018, 07:56:36 PM
so is lebron going to have to score over 1/2 of the cavs points for them to win?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Chief on April 18, 2018, 08:25:23 PM
So predictable
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on April 18, 2018, 10:45:05 PM
Oh there is ZERO doubt/debate that the NBA screwed over the Pacers on purpose in game 2.  They outscored the Cavs 62-30 in the paint, shot less jumpers including 3's, and yet "mysteriously" got less FTA's despite attacking the basket all night long.  And the flagrant they called on Sabonis?  Or when Lebron CLEARLY shoved Lance by the face and the refs INTENTIONALLY ignored it?  Yeah, this was rigged.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: satch on April 18, 2018, 10:51:52 PM
I agree...If it can happen to the Pacers it can happen to the C's. It would help if someone with some integrity would call this out. The NBA world would come unglued because they must protect the golden goose.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: liam on April 18, 2018, 10:54:16 PM
Oladipo gets two fouls in under a minute, but Giannis gets zero fouls for 3 quarters plus. NBA rules.

Jaylen Brown played being very aggressive and didn't go to the line until he was intentionally fouled....
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: nickagneta on April 18, 2018, 11:51:04 PM
Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 12:28:38 AM
Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.

I don't get how everyone can see it plain as day and tweet it out and nobody will. The MLB doesn't have this. The NFL doesn't have this. Sickening.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 19, 2018, 12:33:43 AM
Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.

I don't get how everyone can see it plain as day and tweet it out and nobody will. The MLB doesn't have this. The NFL doesn't have this. Sickening.

Maybe they’re scared of getting warned or demoted or losing future opportunities due to $$ nba pressure, idk

Most obvious rigging this playoffs
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Androslav on April 19, 2018, 02:17:02 AM
Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.

I don't get how everyone can see it plain as day and tweet it out and nobody will. The MLB doesn't have this. The NFL doesn't have this. Sickening.
In Champions league all is rigged - this is heaven.
The groups themselves,
the elimination games draw,
the games itself off course - all rigged.

The other day they have already printed the tickets before the official semi final draw. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5612603/Champions-League-fix-scandal-erupts-Roma-offer-Liverpool-tickets-draw-made.html

Sometimes they don't call 4 penalties in one game against a single team and the result ended up 1:1. Just enough to squeeze Barca in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JhXLK_-DRo

When Fifa or Uefa decide to face the corruption, they do it to a 80 y/o guy Swiss guy that was already filling his (and theirs) pockets for 50 years and is about to retire since he had enough.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/sepp-blatter-fifa-launch-investigation-into-former-president-for-alleged-bribery-and-corruption-a7233821.html

I follow the NBA partially because it has the least rigging of all major team sports I like. But yeah, LBJ is still the golden cow, NBA wants more games regardless, it wants its SStars to look like winners, even when they are over the hill.
However, NBA requires a team to reach 4 wins in a series to advance - it is much harder to rig 4 out of 7 games than a single game or home and away.
Also, a football match or a home and away can be decided by a single possession (0:1,0:0=0:1)
For example - one nonexistent penalty kick would suffice.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 19, 2018, 06:45:55 AM
The NBA refs are terrible at best.   They blow calls, let the stars travels and get away with all kinds of stuff.   Sometimes they seem to favor a team over another.   Instant replay exposes them to all kinds of justifiable scrutiny.  They also seem to subsidize certain players with FTAs when they are having an off night.   Stuff like this just reinforces the rigged league narrative.

Call it the same way for both teams.   I don't care if they call a tight call as long as it applied to both sides evenly.   It rarely does, and they love to call fouls on one team and balance it out with FTAs in the end when it does not matter and the game is out of hand.  This crap just throws fire to the conspiracies.   I just think they are fans (hence the star calls) and are just really bad at what they do.  Some of them have histories of getting personal with the players when they should be impersonal refs.





Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 19, 2018, 07:21:04 AM
The NBA refs are terrible at best.   They blow calls, let the stars travels and get away with all kinds of stuff.   Sometimes they seem to favor a team over another.   Instant replay exposes them to all kinds of justifiable scrutiny.  They also seem to subsidize certain players with FTAs when they are having an off night.   Stuff like this just reinforces the rigged league narrative.

Call it the same way for both teams.   I don't care if they call a tight call as long as it applied to both sides evenly.   It rarely does, and they love to call fouls on one team and balance it out with FTAs in the end when it does not matter and the game is out of hand.  This crap just throws fire to the conspiracies.   I just think they are fans (hence the star calls) and are just really bad at what they do.  Some of them have histories of getting personal with the players when they should be impersonal refs.

well put.     The blatant favor shown to stars is ridiculous, it's so unprofessional.   Lebron is absolute worst .  All this purposeful ignoring the BASIC rules of basketball ,  brings the sport down in my eyes.  Rules are what makes playing difficult and interesting and requires more skill . Melo walks with the ball practically every time he touches it.  Far too few offensive fouls are called.   Lebron clears out everybody with his arm on every drive ...like he is a fullback in the NFL.   Harden carries the ball every trip down court. On and on .  Make the calls .  Clean it up.

Street ball would be cut down , if the rules were actually enforced . Team ball and passing become more strategic tools to get good looks , instead of Lebron breaking six rules everytime he is on offense.          But thats seems to be the trend , away from rules .
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Smitty77 on April 19, 2018, 08:25:20 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: kozlodoev on April 19, 2018, 08:27:40 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 19, 2018, 08:37:51 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 09:11:10 AM
Oh good, the conspiracy threads are back.  Though in fairness the old ones were always spot-on with their prediction that the NBA would force a LeBron vs Kobe Finals matchup every year.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: timpiker on April 19, 2018, 09:39:24 AM
I've said for the years - the NBA refs are a disgrace to humanity.  They are the worst of the worst.  The lowest life-form in the galaxy.  I swear, if it wasn't for my love of the C's, I'd quit watching the NBA immediately.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 19, 2018, 11:16:16 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77

I noticed this with Utah last night too. Seems like they wanted to make sure Utah gives them a long series.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Fafnir on April 19, 2018, 11:22:30 AM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Rondo9 on April 19, 2018, 11:26:37 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 19, 2018, 11:27:38 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77

I noticed this with Utah last night too. Seems like they wanted to make sure Utah gives them a long series.


more games = mo money , Peoples watching ads .....ads is TV money ....$$$$  :D

= rich media magnates +  NBA owners ......smiling

Now ...Why you want to have sweeps and make dem folks poor.

Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 19, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Donoghus on April 19, 2018, 11:35:32 AM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Absolutely. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Fafnir on April 19, 2018, 11:38:38 AM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Absolutely.
I was actually pretty confident that Giannis would foul out eventually in the OT after the BS block call and the "jump-ball" where he tackled Tatum from behind.

Just was worried he'd get the Bucks a lead before it happened. I thought it was hilarious when he got called for the same exact play one minute later.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: csfansince60s on April 19, 2018, 11:45:57 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77

I noticed this with Utah last night too. Seems like they wanted to make sure Utah gives them a long series.


more games = mo money , Peoples watching ads .....ads is TV money ....$$$$  :D

= rich media magnates +  NBA owners ......smiling

Now ...Why you want to have sweeps and make dem folks poor.

Don’t the refs get paid per game in the playoffs?

Some 💰💰💰incentive for them, too?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Rondo9 on April 19, 2018, 11:50:45 AM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Smitty77 on April 19, 2018, 12:16:13 PM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Smitty77 on April 19, 2018, 12:17:11 PM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.

Here is an email I just sent to a buddy a few minutes ago about me being worried about the refs DECIDING our game on Friday night:

I am worried as I literally watched the NBA decide the OKC/Jazz game last night by literally giving all the calls to the Jazz down the stretch.  They sent Mitchell to the line when he was NOT EVEN TOUCHED!!!!!  Gobert got all the calls OVER Steven Adams, one of the BEST defensive centers in the NBA and Adams fouled out on a bull crap call.  All of this IN Oklahoma City!!!!  Very sad!!!  The NBA and the refs clearly WANTED Utah to win this game.  Unreal!!!!

Smitty77

I noticed this with Utah last night too. Seems like they wanted to make sure Utah gives them a long series.


more games = mo money , Peoples watching ads .....ads is TV money ....$$$$  :D

= rich media magnates +  NBA owners ......smiling

Now ...Why you want to have sweeps and make dem folks poor.

Don’t the refs get paid per game in the playoffs?

Some 💰💰💰incentive for them, too?

What a fabulous point and one that I had not thought about!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 12:39:33 PM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.

Yes, the Cavs definitely seemed to shoot more jumpshots. In addition to shooting 6 less 3's the Pacers actually shot 5 more shots. That first foul on Oladipo really didn't pass the smell test. Really wish the Refs would just call Oladipo and Lebron the same.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 12:47:38 PM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 19, 2018, 12:49:44 PM
Some would argue the exact OPPOSITE happened in last night's Jazz/Thunder game in OKC.  However, one COULD argue that Mitchell is now the NEW STAR in the league and the NBA is pushing him OVER even George and Westbrook.
I guess one could argue anything... as long as it conveniently fits their preconceived narrative.
exactly.  There are missed or bad calls every game on both sides.  Over the course of a season it generally evens out, but recency bias makes it seem terrible in the heat of a moment.  The fouls ended up pretty similar last night, and aside from Lebron's FT's those were pretty even as well, but Lebron was a man on a mission last night and was super aggressive and drew a lot of shooting fouls.

Yet the Pacers had more points in the paint?
a fast break dunk is points in the paint.  That alone doesn't tell much of anything.

They also took less threes, that tells me that they were more aggressive.
Sure, but aside from James the Cavs had 9 FT's to the Pacers 12.  The FT discrepancy was all James and his 13 FT's. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 01:59:00 PM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.

Fairweatherfan, I do agree with you that you can find an angle to complain about refs for every single game. I didn't seen enough of the utah game to comment on it. That being said, what happened in this pacers game is exactly what Tim Donoghy said the NBA would do (which I think was at least loosely based on the truth, he wasn't some brilliant story teller). Which is to call the game tight for a certain player cause they are instructed that player got away with some missed calls, or something was noticed in reviewing the film from the previous game.

 I really don't think it is a pie in the sky conspiracy theory to say the refs were said to watch for Oladipo charging on his drives or watch for Oladipo fighting through screens in their pregame notes. This isn't a conspiracy theory to the level of saying the refs were handed a note pregame that said "pacers must lose, do it at all costs." I would say sometimes these notes about to watch for are actually legit. Yesterday, just watching the game it really stood out to give a star player 2 ticky tack fouls in 68 seconds. I think the first foul was a block cause the guy was moving and in the restricted area. The second foul was a fighting through the screen foul that can be called on just about every play. You add into this all that Oladipo only averaged 2.3 fouls per 34 minutes on the season and the whole thing really didn't add up. Did you watch these plays? What do you think? 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 02:38:11 PM
Sickening and yet so predictable. I hope there is some beat writer out there somewhere with the balls to write an article calling out the NBA for this stuff. But there isn't.

I don't get how everyone can see it plain as day and tweet it out and nobody will. The MLB doesn't have this. The NFL doesn't have this. Sickening.
In Champions league all is rigged - this is heaven.
The groups themselves,
the elimination games draw,
the games itself off course - all rigged.

The other day they have already printed the tickets before the official semi final draw. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-5612603/Champions-League-fix-scandal-erupts-Roma-offer-Liverpool-tickets-draw-made.html

Sometimes they don't call 4 penalties in one game against a single team and the result ended up 1:1. Just enough to squeeze Barca in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JhXLK_-DRo

When Fifa or Uefa decide to face the corruption, they do it to a 80 y/o guy Swiss guy that was already filling his (and theirs) pockets for 50 years and is about to retire since he had enough.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/sepp-blatter-fifa-launch-investigation-into-former-president-for-alleged-bribery-and-corruption-a7233821.html

I follow the NBA partially because it has the least rigging of all major team sports I like. But yeah, LBJ is still the golden cow, NBA wants more games regardless, it wants its SStars to look like winners, even when they are over the hill.
However, NBA requires a team to reach 4 wins in a series to advance - it is much harder to rig 4 out of 7 games than a single game or home and away.
Also, a football match or a home and away can be decided by a single possession (0:1,0:0=0:1)
For example - one nonexistent penalty kick would suffice.

Basketball remains the easiest game to be influenced by refs. Just call some quick fouls on a team's dominant player and you have limited his influence on the game. See what happened to Oladipo yesterday. When Taj Gibson played at USC he was eating North Carolina's lunch in the. NCAA tournament and USC was on its way to victory, some quick fouls fouled him out and that was that..North Carolina won.

The refs can also control game by calling a tight game when they want to favor the team that scores from the perimeter,, and a loose game when they want to favor a team that plays in the paint..very easy to influence a game
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 02:46:15 PM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Absolutely.
I was actually pretty confident that Giannis would foul out eventually in the OT after the BS block call and the "jump-ball" where he tackled Tatum from behind.

Just was worried he'd get the Bucks a lead before it happened. I thought it was hilarious when he got called for the same exact play one minute later.

Even more hilarious was his reaction.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 02:51:10 PM
Oh good, the conspiracy threads are back.  Though in fairness the old ones were always spot-on with their prediction that the NBA would force a LeBron vs Kobe Finals matchup every year.

How can you call it a conspiracy theory when the announcers and players even admit that certain calls are 'rookie' calls and certain calls will never be called against a star? Why is it easier to score beer at a Amish retreat than to foul out an NBA star? Why do they call phantom fouls on players not even close to the action and why do the referees keep count on the number of fouls on certain players?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 03:12:45 PM
Oh good, the conspiracy threads are back.  Though in fairness the old ones were always spot-on with their prediction that the NBA would force a LeBron vs Kobe Finals matchup every year.

How can you call it a conspiracy theory when the announcers and players even admit that certain calls are 'rookie' calls and certain calls will never be called against a star? Why is it easier to score beer at a Amish retreat than to foul out an NBA star? Why do they call phantom fouls on players not even close to the action and why do the referees keep count on the number of fouls on certain players?

I don't see how anyone can view the lack of fouls called on Lebron throughout his career, for an extremely physical player, as anything but an embarrassment for the league.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 03:13:59 PM
One of the primary drivers of home court advantage is the refs being swayed slightly by the crowd.

Yet the opposite happened in Oklahoma City last night!!  I agree with you overall, but that didn't happen in OKC last night.  For those that watched the end of the that game, it was blatantly clear.

Smitty77

It was pretty underhanded of those refs to make Westbrook, George, and Melo go 0-14 in the fourth quarter.

Fairweatherfan, I do agree with you that you can find an angle to complain about refs for every single game. I didn't seen enough of the utah game to comment on it. That being said, what happened in this pacers game is exactly what Tim Donoghy said the NBA would do (which I think was at least loosely based on the truth, he wasn't some brilliant story teller). Which is to call the game tight for a certain player cause they are instructed that player got away with some missed calls, or something was noticed in reviewing the film from the previous game.

 I really don't think it is a pie in the sky conspiracy theory to say the refs were said to watch for Oladipo charging on his drives or watch for Oladipo fighting through screens in their pregame notes. This isn't a conspiracy theory to the level of saying the refs were handed a note pregame that said "pacers must lose, do it at all costs." I would say sometimes these notes about to watch for are actually legit. Yesterday, just watching the game it really stood out to give a star player 2 ticky tack fouls in 68 seconds. I think the first foul was a block cause the guy was moving and in the restricted area. The second foul was a fighting through the screen foul that can be called on just about every play. You add into this all that Oladipo only averaged 2.3 fouls per 34 minutes on the season and the whole thing really didn't add up. Did you watch these plays? What do you think?

Yeah but you're describing a player being called tighter in response to getting away with things in prior games.  That makes sense, and seems consistent with how refs ought to adjust during a series.  It's also a long way from "the refs went after Oladipo with the goal of helping the Cavs win" which was the original idea here.

I haven't been able to find clips of the first foul but I've seen clips of his 2nd and 3rd and they're both fouls. There's a defense that maybe they aren't always called, and a weaker defense that they shouldn't be called, but I don't see anything that's an egregious call in a vacuum. You'd have to already believe the "rigged" narrative to see the calls as evidence of it.

The thing about the "make the series competitive" version of that narrative is that teams that are behind tend to play with more intensity out of desperation.  And when one team's significantly more aggressive than the other, they often put their opponents off-balance and into situations where contact's made with the opponent in a poor position. Fouls aren't inevitable in those spots but they become very likely. That's what Cleveland did early and Oladipo got caught in some likely foul situations, the whistles were blown, he spent some time on the bench. Don't see anything more to it than that.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: The Oracle on April 19, 2018, 03:20:03 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 03:37:29 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

Thanks for the link....LBJ had to score 46 for CAVS to win by 3 points....oh and CAVS only won the first quarter which is were the refs did their major damage putting Oladipo on the bench and disrupting the rhythm of the Pacers.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 03:39:07 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: The Oracle on April 19, 2018, 03:48:30 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 03:55:45 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: cltc5 on April 19, 2018, 03:56:41 PM
When the Celtics are the favorite to win it all.  We'll win it all.  The league is about money which is why I hate watching g it
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 04:40:34 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: nickagneta on April 19, 2018, 04:59:08 PM
Thought both the 1st and 3rd fouls were called wrong. I also have no doubt whatsoever that NBA refs are told to watch for certain things and/or watch certain players. It also doesn't feel like the first time since Lebron went to Miami that after a Lebron loss the opposition suddenly gets called extremely tight and someone gets in foul trouble the very next game.

So I am an NBA conspiracy theorist. Sorry. 2002 LA-Sacramento, 2010 LA-Celtics and Tim Donaghy ruined me in that way.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 05:19:57 PM
Thought both the 1st and 3rd fouls were called wrong. I also have no doubt whatsoever that NBA refs are told to watch for certain things and/or watch certain players. It also doesn't feel like the first time since Lebron went to Miami that after a Lebron loss the opposition suddenly gets called extremely tight and someone gets in foul trouble the very next game.

So I am an NBA conspiracy theorist. Sorry. 2002 LA-Sacramento, 2010 LA-Celtics and Tim Donaghy ruined me in that way.

Another thing to note on this point is LeBron would have never been called for those fouls that Oladipo was called for. Also, the fact that Oladipo did not complain does not mean he agreed with the call. It just could have been a passive aggressive reaction. There is nothing wrong with accepting that the NBA manipulates its product to influence returns. It is not pure competition. The league is still about making money, and the influence stretches from the ball boys all the way to the announcers on tv and the sidelines.

It's okay to accept that it is entertainment not pure competition. That is why players are allowed to travel, Palm, and foul without penalty.

I remember the days of the Pat Riley Lakers stagger defense that they ran every time they were behind and mounted a comeback...that defense was all about fouling opponents but the refs let it go and it was considered great defense.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: fairweatherfan on April 19, 2018, 05:29:13 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch.

I think refs have all sorts of biases, some individual but many situational ones that are deliberate and part of the officiating culture. I just don't think one of them is intentionally trying to tilt a game in one team's favor because "the league wants it" or whatever. I think those days are past.  Complaining about calls is a time-honored fan tradition but claiming a calculated bad motive isn't a good look and requires pretty compelling evidence.

And I don't think two bang-bang plays early in a first-round Game 2 says anything about it either way. I think people are frustrated that it happened because they want LeBron to go down and they're attaching that frustration to an existing narrative about the refs, instead of the fact that the Cavs came out hard in a must-win game, put Indy in a big hole, and they just couldn't climb all the way out.


But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.

ok, some strong feelings about this and I really don't wanna go the frame-by-frame route. Say for argument's sake it did go the wrong way - that still doesn't suggest anything about refs deliberately trying to screw Indiana. I got no problem with grumbling about calls, bad calls happen every game. It's just the "league rigged it!" conspiracy mindset that seems so silly and injects a lot of empty cynicism into a great sport.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 05:36:14 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch.

I think refs have all sorts of biases, some individual but many situational ones that are deliberate and part of the officiating culture. I just don't think one of them is intentionally trying to tilt a game in one team's favor because "the league wants it" or whatever. I think those days are past.  Complaining about calls is a time-honored fan tradition but claiming a calculated bad motive isn't a good look and requires pretty compelling evidence.

And I don't think two bang-bang plays early in a first-round Game 2 says anything about it either way. I think people are frustrated that it happened because they want LeBron to go down and they're attaching that frustration to an existing narrative about the refs, instead of the fact that the Cavs came out hard in a must-win game, put Indy in a big hole, and they just couldn't climb all the way out.


But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.

ok, some strong feelings about this and I really don't wanna go the frame-by-frame route. Say for argument's sake it did go the wrong way - that still doesn't suggest anything about refs deliberately trying to screw Indiana. I got no problem with grumbling about calls, bad calls happen every game. It's just the "league rigged it!" conspiracy mindset that seems so silly and injects a lot of empty cynicism into a great sport.

You don't want conspiracy theories then you do not call suspect fouls on a team's superstar player that you would NEVER call on the opponent's superstar.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 05:42:35 PM
If you want to say you agree with the general notion that the NBA caters to star players, will sometimes overly favor the homecourt team, and can get it caught up in the moment to make some bad calls that is fine. We can agree to disagree.

Honestly what I take issue is that you can watch that play frame by frame and confidently say it was a good call (which you did earlier). If you pause when Oladipo is taking off Korver's feet are literally 3 feet apart. You add on the fact that if anything the the NBA sides with the offensive player in a tie and calls less fouls on stars and the call becomes even more ridiculous, but regardless it was an awful call.

 At a deeper , level it is pretty comical to think that korver, one of the slowest players in the league laterally and a lousy defensive player, somehow beats oladipo, one of the fastest and shiftiest players in the league, to the spot on a fastbreak to the spots to take a charge. 

I will say you can believe the NBA is completely on the up and up, but you shouldn't start misrepresenting bad calls like you did here to try and prove your point.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 19, 2018, 06:00:26 PM
If such a conspiracy is in play, why haven't all of the blog boys and networks reported so ad nauseum? Deflategate got a ton of attention, and that pales in comparison to your view that the NBA is systematically fixing games.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 06:04:12 PM
I am a big picture guy...I mean if your ex wife that you have had a rocky relationship is killed with a knife and you show up with cuts on your hands the next day you better have some serious explanation for those cuts. Oladipo dominated the CAVS in game one, and he is sent to the bench by the refs early in game two (which turns out to be the decisive factor in the game) the burden is on the referees on this one. They have some explaining to do.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 06:06:14 PM
If such a conspiracy is in play, why haven't all of the blog boys and networks reported so ad nauseum? Deflategate got a ton of attention, and that pales in comparison to your view that the NBA is systematically fixing games.

Why would they? They all profit from the entertainment, they would rather not go back to the days when the NBA playoffs were on tape delay after the 11:00 nightly news.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: TomHeinsohn on April 19, 2018, 06:09:58 PM
Pau Gasol might as well have pulled a knife on Rondo and stabbed him underneath the basket for the putback in the 2010 finals. Never forget
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: The Oracle on April 19, 2018, 06:22:09 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: rocknrollforyoursoul on April 19, 2018, 06:23:09 PM
Thought both the 1st and 3rd fouls were called wrong. I also have no doubt whatsoever that NBA refs are told to watch for certain things and/or watch certain players. It also doesn't feel like the first time since Lebron went to Miami that after a Lebron loss the opposition suddenly gets called extremely tight and someone gets in foul trouble the very next game.

So I am an NBA conspiracy theorist. Sorry. 2002 LA-Sacramento, 2010 LA-Celtics and Tim Donaghy ruined me in that way.

These are great examples. I know I'm a biased Celtics fan/Lakers hater, but I don't see how anyone can look at the first two examples above and give any justification for the awful officiating in those series.

I don't think of myself as a conspiracy theorist, but maybe I am. I have no doubt that the league wants certain teams and players to appear on the biggest stage—the NBA Finals—and that referees thus call different things for different players/teams. I feel confident saying the NBA doesn't want Indiana anywhere near the conference finals, much less the NBA Finals, and certainly not at the expense of knocking LeBron out of the playoffs in the first round. There are always going to be bad calls, or at least borderline calls, but I just don't see how the officials couldn't see Love lean into Oladipo on Love's 3pt attempt. In fact, in watching/listening to the video of that play, the whistle is blown at the exact moment Oladipo makes contact with Love, which is not how the foul/whistle sequencing usually works. It's like the ref already knew Oladipo was going to commit a foul, or had already made up his mind that there was going to be a foul on the play, no matter what.

If that makes me a conspiracy theorist, that's fine by me. It's obvious to me that superstars get more calls than nonsuperstars, that vets get more calls than rookies, and that refs often call games differently in the last couple minutes than they do the rest of the game—all of which, to me, are unacceptable.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 06:49:17 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless.

This is so ridiculous to me, but we can agree to disagree and just pretend to mutually admire Korver's foot speed. I also find it hilarious you are using the fact that Oladipo, who is very soft spoken and rarely complains about anything, didn't throw a hissy fit as some evidence of it being a good call. If he whined and jumped around like Lebron does every time a foul is called on him you would take that as evidence of it being a bad call. Give me a break... .

Hope they never call that correctly and risk making the nba not worth watching. We all want more charges and guys ducking under players rather than playing real defense right?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: The Oracle on April 19, 2018, 07:01:05 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless.

This is so ridiculous to me, but we can agree to disagree and just pretend to mutually admire Korver's foot speed. I also find it hilarious you are using the fact that Oladipo, who is very soft spoken and rarely complains about anything, didn't throw a hissy fit as some evidence of it being a good call. If he whined and jumped around like Lebron does every time a foul is called on him you would take that as evidence of it being a bad call. Give me a break... .

Hope they never call that correctly and risk making the nba not worth watching. We all want more charges and guys ducking under players rather than playing real defense right?
By every definition of the block charge rules in the NBA handbook that IS a charge.  Continue on with your conspiracy theory.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 07:01:57 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless.

Well they did not call Giannis running a Celtic player over on the way to an 'and one' a charge on Tuesday but it seems that did not stop anyone rom watching the NBA.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 07:03:38 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless.

This is so ridiculous to me, but we can agree to disagree and just pretend to mutually admire Korver's foot speed. I also find it hilarious you are using the fact that Oladipo, who is very soft spoken and rarely complains about anything, didn't throw a hissy fit as some evidence of it being a good call. If he whined and jumped around like Lebron does every time a foul is called on him you would take that as evidence of it being a bad call. Give me a break... .

Hope they never call that correctly and risk making the nba not worth watching. We all want more charges and guys ducking under players rather than playing real defense right?
By every definition of the block charge rules in the NBA handbook that IS a charge.  Continue on with your conspiracy theory.

He is moving! his feet are spread. He is not even upright! What freaking definition are you looking at?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: nickagneta on April 19, 2018, 07:24:42 PM
The play where Giannis ran over Larkin at the FT line where Giannis got the call for an and one seems similar to me to the Oladipo foul after running into Korver. Which play is called right and which wrong? Both Korver and Larkin to me didn't finish setting feet but both may have established position. To me you gotta get your feet set.

I will say its a dang tough call to get right without replay.

But the megastar's team got the call in both situations. Lebron and Giannis' teams were the beneficiary.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 19, 2018, 07:24:51 PM
http://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=10&Season=2017-18&title=Oladiphttp://stats.nba.com/events/?flag=1&GameID=0041700132&GameEventID=13&Season=2017-18&title=Oladipo%20P.FOUL%20(P2.T2)%20(E.Malloy)o%20Offensive%20Charge%20Foul%20(P1.T1)%20(E.Lewis)

TP but I can't get the video to open here. I'll try again at home.
Sorry I don't know why they didn't show up as direct links.  The box scores on NBA.COM contain video of each and every play in the play by play.  People may also find the new defense and match up sections they have added this year interesting.

As to the 2 early fouls on Olidipo they were a pretty obvious charge and him blasting into Lebron's screen, both of which were correctly called in my opinion.  The Pacers were a mess to start that game and blaming the refs with these conspiracy theories is just nonsense.

Got it by going into play-by-play and clicking the play link there. 

Yeah I can't see Korver's feet there but he's definitely outside the area, it looks like a charge, and Oladipo doesn't even complain heading back up.  Not seeing a smoking gun here.  Honestly the sketchiest first half foul is the #3 where Love got him into the air and leaned into him to shoot, but that's something that's generally called unless the contact is glancing. It's just an annoying kind of play, unless it's Paul Pierce doing it  :)

What's interesting is that so many of these complaints (not by you) seem to collapse to the idea that refs should base their calls on game situations, how many fouls star players have, etc, which is also something cited as evidence of rigging.  Like it's inherently unfair for Dipo to get 2 fouls in a minute whether they're valid calls or not.

Korver is 100% moving there man. Come on. People want to argue this cause they want to say "nba officiating is great they never favor anything", and i get that makes the NBA easier to watch. But come on... I thought he was moving live and watching this frame by frame on this replay it is even more obvious he wasn't set. I have a screenshot on my desktop here that I can't figure out how to load, but Korvers feet are about 3.5 feet apart as oladipo starts his jump. I have never seen someone argue before with a straight face that you can be in a set position with your legs spread out 3 to 3.5 feet apart. I would call this a blocking foul if it was Paul pierce himself down there.
The day that that play is not called a charge is the day that the NBA is no longer worth watching as players wont be allowed to play defense at all!  Korver establishes position in Oladipo's path and draws a near perfectly executed drawn charge, well outside the restricted area, arms vertical, and does not appear to move sideways at all.  Oladipo should have pulled it out rather than attacking 2 defenders in solid position.  Oladipo himself does NOT even argue the call as he knew it was correct!!  You can toggle it back and forth a thousand times on NBA.COM your screenshot is meaningless.

Well they did not call Giannis running a Celtic player over on the way to an 'and one' a charge on Tuesday but it seems that did not stop anyone rom watching the NBA.

Clearly it was a borderline call and saying the NBA isn't worth watching if it doesn't go one way is beyond hyperbolic.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 19, 2018, 07:26:25 PM
agenda = money
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Ogaju on April 19, 2018, 07:33:02 PM
The play where Giannis ran over Larkin at the FT line where Giannis got the call for an and one seems similar to me to the Oladipo foul after running into Korver. Which play is called right and which wrong? Both Korver and Larkin to me didn't finish setting feet but both may have established position. To me you gotta get your feet set.

I will say its a dang tough call to get right without replay.

But the megastar's team got the call in both situations. Lebron and Giannis' teams were the beneficiary.

That is interesting Nick...So not only does Bron get megastar calls his teammates are now entitled to the same calls? Perhaps the NBA should pre designate a megastar for each team for special calls, in which case Oladipo would have been Pacers megastar and would have got the call on that bang bang play. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: nickagneta on April 19, 2018, 08:01:50 PM
The play where Giannis ran over Larkin at the FT line where Giannis got the call for an and one seems similar to me to the Oladipo foul after running into Korver. Which play is called right and which wrong? Both Korver and Larkin to me didn't finish setting feet but both may have established position. To me you gotta get your feet set.

I will say its a dang tough call to get right without replay.

But the megastar's team got the call in both situations. Lebron and Giannis' teams were the beneficiary.

That is interesting Nick...So not only does Bron get megastar calls his teammates are now entitled to the same calls? Perhaps the NBA should pre designate a megastar for each team for special calls, in which case Oladipo would have been Pacers megastar and would have got the call on that bang bang play. Problem solved.
When the league wants to make sure a megastar's team has a distinct advantage, then yeah, his teammates get his calls. Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 19, 2018, 11:16:41 PM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player. 
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: liam on April 19, 2018, 11:19:32 PM
agenda = money

Nailed The Trump Presidency and NBA in one comment!
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 12:25:11 AM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Androslav on April 20, 2018, 03:54:04 AM
agenda = money
TP. A bit raw, but the most efficient word for truth post on the topic
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 08:48:00 AM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
You are the one that is chiding people for not knowing the rule and it seems apparent you don't know the rule as you keep changing your argument when challenged. 


a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
 b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
 c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
 PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
 EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
 d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
 e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
 PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 12:36:40 PM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
You are the one that is chiding people for not knowing the rule and it seems apparent you don't know the rule as you keep changing your argument when challenged. 


a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
 b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
 c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
 PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
 EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
 d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
 e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
 PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.

So a legal position includes your legs 3 feet apart and leaning?  Funny to paste the rules that have nothing to do with that and act like you have accomplished something. If your argument is that you can spread out your legs as far as you want someone like Giannis could literally block off 90% of the paint.

In the future, if you are gonna paste a rule in at least make it address what I am saying please.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 12:40:06 PM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
You are the one that is chiding people for not knowing the rule and it seems apparent you don't know the rule as you keep changing your argument when challenged. 


a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
 b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
 c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
 PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
 EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
 d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
 e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
 PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.

So a legal position includes your legs 3 feet apart and leaning?  Funny to paste the rules that have nothing to do with that and act like you have accomplished something. If your argument is that you can spread out your legs as far as you want someone like Giannis could literally block off 90% of the paint.

In the future, if you are gonna paste a rule in at least make it address what I am saying please.
If you really want to paste in rules the key point is legal guarding position. http://www.basketballwiki.net/index.php?title=Legal_Guarding_Position

Leaning away from your opponent with your legs spread is not a legal guarding position.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: Moranis on April 20, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
You are the one that is chiding people for not knowing the rule and it seems apparent you don't know the rule as you keep changing your argument when challenged. 


a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
 b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
 c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
 PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
 EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
 d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
 e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
 PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.

So a legal position includes your legs 3 feet apart and leaning?  Funny to paste the rules that have nothing to do with that and act like you have accomplished something. If your argument is that you can spread out your legs as far as you want someone like Giannis could literally block off 90% of the paint.

In the future, if you are gonna paste a rule in at least make it address what I am saying please.
If you really want to paste in rules the key point is legal guarding position. http://www.basketballwiki.net/index.php?title=Legal_Guarding_Position

Leaning away from your opponent with your legs spread is not a legal guarding position.
facing your opponent with both feet on the floor.  No mention of how far apart legs can be and as long as his body is above his feet, it is perfectly legal. 

Perhaps you didn't actually read what a legal guarding position is.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 01:26:15 PM
The NBA rule for charging doesn't require no movement only that the defender has established a legal guarding position. You can be moving and be in a straight line position in front of the offensive player.
You can't have your legs three feet apart and be leaning though. Which is the whole point here.

Obviously we would have all bet our life savings you would have said it was a good call though lol
You are the one that is chiding people for not knowing the rule and it seems apparent you don't know the rule as you keep changing your argument when challenged. 


a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
 b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
 c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
 PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
 EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
 d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
 e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.
 PENALTY: The defender shall be assessed a personal foul and a team foul. If the penalty is not in effect, the offended team is awarded the ball on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended. If the penalty is in effect, one free throw attempt plus a penalty free throw attempt is awarded.

So a legal position includes your legs 3 feet apart and leaning?  Funny to paste the rules that have nothing to do with that and act like you have accomplished something. If your argument is that you can spread out your legs as far as you want someone like Giannis could literally block off 90% of the paint.

In the future, if you are gonna paste a rule in at least make it address what I am saying please.
If you really want to paste in rules the key point is legal guarding position. http://www.basketballwiki.net/index.php?title=Legal_Guarding_Position

Leaning away from your opponent with your legs spread is not a legal guarding position.
facing your opponent with both feet on the floor.  No mention of how far apart legs can be and as long as his body is above his feet, it is perfectly legal. 

Perhaps you didn't actually read what a legal guarding position is.

The legal guarding position extends vertically above him (cylinder) from the floor to the ceiling. He may raise his arms and hands above his head or jump vertically but he must maintain them in a vertical position inside the imaginary cylinder.

So the legs must be vertical, If they are splayed out like Korver's were they are not in the vertical cylinder.

Additionally leaning away from does not equal facing?

Secondly, are you really trying to say you can have your legs completed stretched out 3 feet apart and get a charge. We all knew that wasn't the case when we were kids. Seriously man, what are you doing here? It seems like you are just being obnoxious and not even addressing what i am posting.
Title: Re: Did NBA agenda just show its' ugly head?
Post by: celticsclay on April 20, 2018, 03:11:21 PM
Could this man take a charge with this legs like this?

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxdPo0m-9wjC5ook7nQUIY9SmVCSFhOI8R6W3qWxp7yn2HxDMdbg)

Lol.. this is what we are arguing about.

Also I will add in for the purposes of this argument he will be leaning away