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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: JSD on April 12, 2018, 05:04:18 AM

Title: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: JSD on April 12, 2018, 05:04:18 AM
http://www.ibtimes.com/kawhi-leonard-moving-boston-celtics-dwyane-wade-thinks-so-2671370

Article
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Smartacus on April 12, 2018, 05:48:13 AM
Interesting but I'll believe it when I see it. In terms of speculation we clearly make the most sense as a trade partner since...

-Kawhi's timeline and prime matches up with the stars we currently have on the roster.

-Nobody is beatng a package centered around Jaylen Brown and/or Tatum plus the Kings pick. I feel like Popovic would love Jaylen.

-There seems to be a mutual respect between Brad Stevens and Pop and trading Kawhi to Boston gets him out if the conference.

-Kawhi is the ultimate LeBron, Ben Simmons, and Durant stopper with Kyrie as the ultimate foil to Curry. Trading Kawhi here would be great for the NBA and our package would keep the Spurs relevant until Pop decides to hang it up.

A lot of smoke here, count me in the camp that's hoping it comes from fire.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Neurotic Guy on April 12, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
C's definitely have the talent to trade for Leonard, but salary match -- even for KL's 20M is not simple.   There is no way to avoid including JB or JT and you'd have to include Morris and probably Rozier -- just to get to about 13M.   Then it's Yabu, Nader, Larkin to get to the right number.   

If it came down to Theis or Rozier -- who would you want to keep?   
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: konkmv on April 12, 2018, 07:18:48 AM
just keep brown and tatum... irwing hayward brown tatum horford are super solid... we need health not kawhi
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Vermont Green on April 12, 2018, 07:32:42 AM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: PAOBoston on April 12, 2018, 07:55:04 AM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.
Yeah....Hayward isn't coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: footey on April 12, 2018, 08:09:17 AM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.

This is why Celts more willing to give up Brown than Tatum. Tatum can play 4.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on April 12, 2018, 08:14:09 AM
We don’t want Tatum to play he 4 for extended minutes. He’s not big enough - he’ll take a pounding. Also, when he plays the 4 our rebounding really suffers.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: coffee425 on April 12, 2018, 08:39:34 AM
We don’t want Tatum to play he 4 for extended minutes. He’s not big enough - he’ll take a pounding. Also, when he plays the 4 our rebounding really suffers.


He played the 4 at extended minutes in his rookie year. He's going to be just fine after he gains some weight. His build reminds me a lot of Paul Milsap, and the NBA is only getting smaller at those positions. It's not like he'll face the Anthony Davis/Boogie combo for all 29 teams.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Jiri Welsch on April 12, 2018, 08:41:39 AM
Trading for Kawhi scares me
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Donoghus on April 12, 2018, 08:45:52 AM
I just don't see it happening.  This is a 55 win team that will be getting Hayward &, presumably, a healthy Kyrie back next season.  Then you have a handful of cost controlled young guys.

I have to think the organization already really likes its chances moving forward with the current core that they have in place.   The tinkering will be at the periphery. 

This isn't summer '07.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: footey on April 12, 2018, 08:48:23 AM
I just don't see it happening.  This is a 55 win team that will be getting Hayward &, presumably, a healthy Kyrie back next season.  Then you have a handful of cost controlled young guys.

I have to think the organization already really likes its chances moving forward with the current core that they have in place.   The tinkering will be at the periphery. 

This isn't summer '07.

I hope you’re right but Danny worries me.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: td450 on April 12, 2018, 08:52:06 AM
Count me as someone who thinks this is a really bad idea. Our roster is really well balanced by age, salary and projected roles. Having Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum evolving with Irving, Hayward and Horford is an ideal long term situation.

Whatever happened to Kawhi Leonard this year, he handled it badly, and he is someone who doesn't show any signs he is comfortable handling the spotlight in a lead role. This is Boston, and the lights are hot here. I'll take my chances with Jaylen Brown any day.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: ChillyWilly on April 12, 2018, 09:15:39 AM
I love KL game would love having him on the roster but money becomes an issue. I like this roster 55 wins and we're adding a healthy max guy next season anyways.

However I trust Danny if he feels like he can make it work I'm in although begrudgingly.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: KGBirdBias on April 12, 2018, 09:19:17 AM
DO NOT TRADE TATUM....let me repeat....DO NOT TRADE TATUM.

Smart, Brown, Morris and 2 picks...

...oh one more thing....DO NOT TRADE TATUM
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: iadera on April 12, 2018, 09:25:30 AM
I still feel like, even we have great time now, we need one superstar beside Kyrie to say: Yes we are a championship team now. Hayward is great, Tatum, Brown, Horford, but none of them are superstars. Still, I'm scared of trade.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 12, 2018, 09:52:11 AM
DA is comitted to Hayward , Horford and Irving .   Team has not had a healthy run with these three yet to see what they can do.

Only the possibility of trading for Davis will change the present main three guys
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: azzenfrost on April 12, 2018, 10:13:06 AM
If a player doesn't work out in SA, would he work out anywhere?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on April 12, 2018, 10:26:45 AM
We don’t want Tatum to play he 4 for extended minutes. He’s not big enough - he’ll take a pounding. Also, when he plays the 4 our rebounding really suffers.


He played the 4 at extended minutes in his rookie year. He's going to be just fine after he gains some weight. His build reminds me a lot of Paul Milsap, and the NBA is only getting smaller at those positions. It's not like he'll face the Anthony Davis/Boogie combo for all 29 teams.

We’ll see. The blog did a story; when he’s the second biggest player on the floor for us his rebound rate and the team’s both plummet.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: IDreamCeltics on April 12, 2018, 11:04:52 AM
C's definitely have the talent to trade for Leonard, but salary match -- even for KL's 20M is not simple.   There is no way to avoid including JB or JT and you'd have to include Morris and probably Rozier -- just to get to about 13M.   Then it's Yabu, Nader, Larkin to get to the right number.   

If it came down to Theis or Rozier -- who would you want to keep?

I think you outline pretty well why this trade is not happening without sending one of the 3 current max contracts out.

Kawhi will sign a max contract when his deal is up, He, Irving, Hayward, and Horford alone would account for 120 million in salary cap... Obviously, that's not a real possibility. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Rosco917 on April 12, 2018, 11:15:39 AM
We don't need Kawhi. In a few years, we'll have a close version of him in Jaylyn Brown.

Please don't forget this game is played with only one ball.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 12, 2018, 11:17:58 AM
C's definitely have the talent to trade for Leonard, but salary match -- even for KL's 20M is not simple.   There is no way to avoid including JB or JT and you'd have to include Morris and probably Rozier -- just to get to about 13M.   Then it's Yabu, Nader, Larkin to get to the right number.   

If it came down to Theis or Rozier -- who would you want to keep?

I think you outline pretty well why this trade is not happening without sending one of the 3 current max contracts out.

Kawhi will sign a max contract when his deal is up, He, Irving, Hayward, and Horford alone would account for 120 million in salary cap... Obviously, that's not a real possibility.
Of course that is a real possibility, especially given Horford would only have 1 option year left the summer Irving and Leonard re-signed. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Monkhouse on April 12, 2018, 11:21:37 AM
I would dream of the day we could have a Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward lineup. Small ball for days lol. Just need a decent center to block shots, and rebound. Baynes or Horford.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: jbpats on April 12, 2018, 11:38:59 AM
You absolutely tade for Kawhi if he is available, he is a top 5 talent. And sorry to say you trade Tatum for him if it's the asking price. Tatum is excellent but Kawhi is a top 5 talent, the probability of Tatum ever becoming as good as him are very slim.
And yes you can include Horford in a package at this stage, enough with this narrative if we trade Horford no free agents will ever come here. Next year is his third year here, he is trade-able at this stage without future free agency concern repercussions.. it happens all of the time.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: td450 on April 12, 2018, 11:57:15 AM
You absolutely tade for Kawhi if he is available, he is a top 5 talent. And sorry to say you trade Tatum for him if it's the asking price. Tatum is excellent but Kawhi is a top 5 talent, the probability of Tatum ever becoming as good as him are very slim.
And yes you can include Horford in a package at this stage, enough with this narrative if we trade Horford no free agents will ever come here. Next year is his third year here, he is trade-able at this stage without future free agency concern repercussions.. it happens all of the time.

He'd be very lucky to be the 7th best player next year, and that's if you assume he returns to his peak form. You would be trading for him, not just getting him, and you would be doing so with one of the premier management teams in the NBA. They would have the better position because his health and mental outlook is murky and they know more about him than we do. He also slots into the role we need the least. I don't see us likely to improve with this exchange.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: keevsnick on April 12, 2018, 11:58:41 AM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.

This is why Celts more willing to give up Brown than Tatum. Tatum can play 4.

Ya but so could Lenard or even Hayward for same minutes, and probably both could do it better than Tatum. Dont think that's a huge factor in who they would give up.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: jbpats on April 12, 2018, 12:01:54 PM
You absolutely tade for Kawhi if he is available, he is a top 5 talent. And sorry to say you trade Tatum for him if it's the asking price. Tatum is excellent but Kawhi is a top 5 talent, the probability of Tatum ever becoming as good as him are very slim.
And yes you can include Horford in a package at this stage, enough with this narrative if we trade Horford no free agents will ever come here. Next year is his third year here, he is trade-able at this stage without future free agency concern repercussions.. it happens all of the time.

He'd be very lucky to be the 7th best player next year, and that's if you assume he returns to his peak form. You would be trading for him, not just getting him, and you would be doing so with one of the premier management teams in the NBA. They would have the better position because his health and mental outlook is murky and they know more about him than we do. He also slots into the role we need the least. I don't see us likely to improve with this exchange.

I personally think Kawhi is fine and is just getting poor guidance from his camp which from my understanding is also his family (I believe his uncle is his agent)? I believe he is looking for his next payday and as Shannon Sharpe alluded to I do think the Isaiah Thomas contract situation scared him (or his family) a bit.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: mef730 on April 12, 2018, 12:37:16 PM
I don't see any scenario under which DA offers what it will take to get the deal done, given that KL only has one year left on his contract. Too much risk that the guy walks.

Mike
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: RIPRED on April 12, 2018, 12:59:54 PM
I just don't see it happening.  This is a 55 win team that will be getting Hayward &, presumably, a healthy Kyrie back next season.  Then you have a handful of cost controlled young guys.

I have to think the organization already really likes its chances moving forward with the current core that they have in place.   The tinkering will be at the periphery. 

This isn't summer '07.

I hope you’re right but Danny worries me.

Why? are you the GM of another NBA team? He doesn't make trades that hurt the Celtics.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: droopdog7 on April 12, 2018, 01:01:38 PM
Would love Kawhi and think he is worth every bit of Tatum and parts if that is what it cost.  The issue, as was alluded to earlier, is the finances.  I don't really have the patience to look up the numbers and do the math but team's nowadays have to look really hard and cap penalties when making these decisions.  Not sure how it shakes out adding Kawhi but it would be a big factor.

Having said all that, I believe DA will need to consolidate assets at some point.  Brown, Tatum, Kyrie, and Hayward will all demand max money at some point (and that's ignoring Horford for the moment).  I don't think the team can sustain that kind of cost.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: ZoneD on April 12, 2018, 01:42:13 PM
As someone who lives in San Antonio I would be ok with this. I'd get to see Tatum play for a long time and it'd be as much of a win as you could hope for for either team if they decided to trade those guys.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: CF033 on April 12, 2018, 01:44:19 PM
Let's hope Ainge isn't considering this. We're building up a strong core right here and we don't really need KL.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BMark on April 12, 2018, 01:49:48 PM
What would we do with Willie McGee? We can't use his bat, we can't use his speed...LOL
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Chris22 on April 12, 2018, 02:20:23 PM
I am sure Dwayne Wade has our best interests at heart.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: blink on April 12, 2018, 02:27:10 PM
Honestly that article seems a bit whatever.  Does Wade have any insider info on WHY he thinks that Kawhi ends up in Boston?  It seems just random speculation, and that is worth about as much as all the money in my pocket, nothing.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 12, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
Let's hope Ainge isn't considering this. We're building up a strong core right here and we don't really need KL.

At the rate Brown is i proving ...even his free throws look effortless smooth.    He will be 90 % KL in a year or two at a faction of the price. 

Pops would ...drool ....love to have Tatum .....his kind of player. ....smart , silent assassin .   

Tatum is a keeper . 

Davis is the prize .
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on April 12, 2018, 03:30:50 PM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.

I think I discussed with @saltlover about this, but if Smart is in the package as a S&T, only HALF his annual salary is accounted in the trade. So if Smart signs 4/40M and goes SAS, it will only account for $5M in the actual trade, not $10M, or if Smart signs 4/48M, it counts as 6M.

Could be wrong or may have misunderstood, but I think that's how it works.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: playdream on April 12, 2018, 04:41:14 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on April 12, 2018, 04:57:01 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on April 12, 2018, 05:02:50 PM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.

I think I discussed with @saltlover about this, but if Smart is in the package as a S&T, only HALF his annual salary is accounted in the trade. So if Smart signs 4/40M and goes SAS, it will only account for $5M in the actual trade, not $10M, or if Smart signs 4/48M, it counts as 6M.

Could be wrong or may have misunderstood, but I think that's how it works.
I think you're talking about Base Year Compensation for a sign and trade where only the outgoing salary is accounted for as 50% of the first year's salary or the player's old salary whichever is higher. I think a team has to be in a taxpayer situation for a sign and trade BYC to go into effect. I know the Celtics aren't taxpayers and I am pretty sure San Antonio isn't either so I am not sure BYC happens here. Though I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Boris Badenov on April 12, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.

I'm quite sure that in Lebron's mind, it was just a teensy, weensy bit of help, compared to the role that Lebron himself played.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenEnvy on April 12, 2018, 05:30:49 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.

I mean, that wasn’t exactly the boldest basketball move I’ve ever seen. It was a “hey, I’m a great player, lemme get my buddy the best player in the world to come to South Beach (because he can’t beat Boston in Cleveland) and while we’re at it Pat, sign my other buddy Chris” kinda move.

Since then, he went to Chicago, fail.

Opted-in with Chicago, instafail.

Ran to LeBron, megafail.

Crawled back to Miami with his tail between his legs.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Donoghus on April 12, 2018, 05:35:21 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.

I mean, that wasn’t exactly the boldest basketball move I’ve ever seen. It was a “hey, I’m a great player, lemme get my buddy the best player in the world to come to South Beach (because he can’t beat Boston in Cleveland) and while we’re at it Pat, sign my other buddy Chris” kinda move.

Since then, he went to Chicago, fail.

Opted-in with Chicago, instafail.

Ran to LeBron, megafail.

Crawled back to Miami with his tail between his legs.

He opted in with Chicago because there was no way in hell he was gonna get $23.8 million on the open market.  It'd would've been idiotic to pass up that.  That's not a fail.  He ended up giving back $8-9 million of it via buyout but $15-16 million when your career is at the end of the road is a savvy business move of self interest, not a fail.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Csfan1984 on April 12, 2018, 06:56:00 PM
Isn't Leonard a FA?  S&T require the team he is going to having cap space I thought
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on April 12, 2018, 06:58:51 PM
Isn't Leonard a FA?  S&T require the team he is going to having cap space I thought
No he has another year left on his contract. He would come due at the same time as Kyrie.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 12, 2018, 06:59:27 PM
I am sure Dwayne Wade has our best interests at heart.

Exactly .......

he bleeds GREEN !
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on April 12, 2018, 07:10:01 PM
Dwyane Wade Thinks So=We better not do it                 

period

Is Wade’s basketball savvy in question? He did help orchestrate Lebron and Bosh to Miami.

I mean, that wasn’t exactly the boldest basketball move I’ve ever seen. It was a “hey, I’m a great player, lemme get my buddy the best player in the world to come to South Beach (because he can’t beat Boston in Cleveland) and while we’re at it Pat, sign my other buddy Chris” kinda move.

Since then, he went to Chicago, fail.

Opted-in with Chicago, instafail.

Ran to LeBron, megafail.

Crawled back to Miami with his tail between his legs.

He opted in with Chicago because there was no way in hell he was gonna get $23.8 million on the open market.  It'd would've been idiotic to pass up that.  That's not a fail.  He ended up giving back $8-9 million of it via buyout but $15-16 million when your career is at the end of the road is a savvy business move of self interest, not a fail.

Yeah, getting paid that much, plus ending up back in Miami where he is embraced, was a pretty great outcome for him.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on April 13, 2018, 11:06:50 AM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: td450 on April 13, 2018, 12:02:03 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Erik on April 13, 2018, 12:05:44 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 13, 2018, 12:16:06 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Monkhouse on April 13, 2018, 12:20:41 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.

Brown will always have the better vertical and athleticism.

I would rather keep both... But I would be okay with Brown or Tatum being used as the main trade piece for Kawhi, only if he decides to officially buy in to our team's philosophy.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: playdream on April 13, 2018, 12:21:14 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.

Brown is and will likely always be the better defender.
Yeah Brown year 1 is a better defender than Tatum year 1

Oops
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Erik on April 13, 2018, 12:38:13 PM
Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Ogaju on April 13, 2018, 12:47:23 PM
Anyone that wants to trade Tatum should review the development of the Greek Freak's body after three years of NBA strength program. If Tatum can develop his body to compare with the bodies of Gianni's and Kawhi...watch out!!
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on April 13, 2018, 12:56:01 PM
Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Brown is elite among starters in FG% differential, holding opponents to 5.8 percentage points below their averages. He’s an outstanding defender, certainly better than Tatum right now.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: td450 on April 13, 2018, 12:58:49 PM
Jayson Tatum is untouchable. I say we grow with what we have.

While I agree that Tatum should be untouchable, I'm surprised that most commenters make this point about Tatum, but not Brown. I'm pretty sure that Brown will end up being the more valuable player. I'd also argue that keeping them together makes both even more valuable.

I don't see it. Could you care to explain? Tatum does everything that Brown does, only better -- 1.5 years younger.
They are both exciting prospects. Tatum has been the better shooter, and Brown the better defender, but both guys have become quite good at both.

Both guys have a ways to go before they become dominant one on one players, but Brown is much better at finishing through contact, and can finish with either hand, while Tatum is still very right handed, and still has trouble with contact.

Both guys are athletic, hard working, have excellent poise, play with intelligence and are confident, but Jaylen has an advantage over Tatum in all those areas.  There probably isn't anyone in the NBA that is both taller and either quicker or faster, and he's also one of the stronger young players in the league. He has Russell Westbrook level athleticism.

I'm very excited to see both guys in the playoffs. They both have stayed within their roles most of the year, and now they are being forced to carry the team. It will be fun to watch.

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on April 13, 2018, 01:03:17 PM
Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

To the eye test, at least to me, Brown is better. And he has a bigger effect on opposing player FG% than Tatum (-5.8 to -2.0). Brown usually defends the other team's best scoring wing or shooting guard.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Erik on April 13, 2018, 01:06:25 PM
Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Brown is elite among starters in FG% differential, holding opponents to 5.8 percentage points below their averages. He’s an outstanding defender, certainly better than Tatum right now.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

How does this stat project players on teams that allow a free drive to the lane into help defense like the Celtics defense does? What is the definition of who is guarding the player? The player who initially guarded him or the player who guarded the shot ?  Can it isolate the player or is it team defense driven?

I'm calling it into question because Isaiah Thomas is on page 3 at -2.7% which seems awfully inaccurate given he c ant block or contest any shot.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BringToughnessBack on April 13, 2018, 01:10:28 PM
There is only one player that Danny would trade Brown or Tatum for and we all know who that is. Unless Danny believes Kawhi to have Curry/Durant like impact, there is no way he is parting with our young studs unless the player coming back is named Davis. We need a big to match our division rival's big for the next decade.

But then again, If Danny has a "thing" for Kawhi all bets are off. Danny also wanted the often injured Curry many years ago as well and many were skeptical to do that kind of trade back then due to the injury risk.

Personally, I want to keep both Brown and Tatum and watch them flourish in Green and would not do a trade for Kawhi. Davis, I would not love it, but would definitely consider it strongly as it is a position of need for us and would make us unstoppable. I dont believe NO is getting rid of Davis anytime soon though unless Davis has privately told them he is bolting at the first chance.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on April 13, 2018, 01:30:29 PM
Brown is a better defender based on what? Certainly not the stats models:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Jaylen+Brown&player_id1_select=Jaylen+Brown&y1=2018&player_id1=brownja02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Jayson+Tatum&player_id2_select=Jayson+Tatum&y2=2018&player_id2=tatumja01&idx=players

I also don't see it in game either.  I'd argue that Tatum is the better defender, or at least it's close enough that the difference in offense makes Tatum the no brainer.

Brown is elite among starters in FG% differential, holding opponents to 5.8 percentage points below their averages. He’s an outstanding defender, certainly better than Tatum right now.

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=PCT_PLUSMINUS&dir=-1

How does this stat project players on teams that allow a free drive to the lane into help defense like the Celtics defense does? What is the definition of who is guarding the player? The player who initially guarded him or the player who guarded the shot ?  Can it isolate the player or is it team defense driven?

I'm calling it into question because Isaiah Thomas is on page 3 at -2.7% which seems awfully inaccurate given he c ant block or contest any shot.

The IT stat is... interesting. All advanced defensive stats have issues; certainly the composites do. But if you sort players based on FG% difference, including only players with 50+ games (to sort out the guys who had a few awesome games then got injured or went back to the D league...) the players are the top are ones you'd expect to see there.

The other significant thing to me is that if Boston is playing an elite scoring wing, Brown is going to guard that guy, not Tatum.  And while Tatum is good at rotations, especially for a rookie, to me Brown misses fewer rotations and covers ground to close out on a shooter better.

That's all about whether Brown is a better defender now. Better player overall? Better ceiling? Different question. I'd say Tatum is likely to be better overall, but I've got a fairly broad confidence interval on that one.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on April 13, 2018, 05:09:40 PM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.

I think I discussed with @saltlover about this, but if Smart is in the package as a S&T, only HALF his annual salary is accounted in the trade. So if Smart signs 4/40M and goes SAS, it will only account for $5M in the actual trade, not $10M, or if Smart signs 4/48M, it counts as 6M.

Could be wrong or may have misunderstood, but I think that's how it works.
I think you're talking about Base Year Compensation for a sign and trade where only the outgoing salary is accounted for as 50% of the first year's salary or the player's old salary whichever is higher. I think a team has to be in a taxpayer situation for a sign and trade BYC to go into effect. I know the Celtics aren't taxpayers and I am pretty sure San Antonio isn't either so I am not sure BYC happens here. Though I could be wrong.

Oh ok, TP for that. Honestly, I have no clue, I'm just not a cap expert at all :P
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Vermont Green on April 15, 2018, 01:28:15 PM
This turned into a little bit of a debate about who is better, Tatum or Brown.  I don't think it is a question about that so much as question about keeping the roster balanced.  Kawhi and Tatum are both 3s as their natural position.  Hayward also although of the three of them, he has played the most at another position (in his case he has played a lot at 2).  It makes no sense to trade Brown for Kawhi and have a roster of Kawhi, Tatum, and Hayward.

For the record, my opinion is that is it not possible to declare that Tatum is better than Brown.  I don't know which will be better.  I like them both a lot but would be willing to consider trading one of them in a package for Davis or Kawhi.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: celticinorlando on April 15, 2018, 01:29:01 PM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Ogaju on April 15, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Yeah like that was ever happening.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 15, 2018, 08:09:49 PM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

At the moment, I wouldn't trade Brown either.

This Spurs lack of communication is something else, coupled with him being injured and an expiring next year. Same concerns that acquiring PG had with the L.A. thing.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: vjcsmoke on April 17, 2018, 03:31:00 AM
Irving, Hayward, Leonard, Tatum, Horford.

Kinda hard to beat that lineup in terms of overall talent.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Casperian on April 17, 2018, 03:34:00 AM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Why not? What do you have against good players?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Somebody on April 17, 2018, 04:55:10 AM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Why not? What do you have against good players?
Why yes? What do you have against talented young players on cost controlled contracts with potential? Or are you actually trolling all the time?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: gouki88 on April 17, 2018, 05:31:46 AM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Why not? What do you have against good players?
Why yes? What do you have against talented young players on cost controlled contracts with potential? Or are you actually trolling all the time?
TP
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: ederson on April 17, 2018, 05:59:59 AM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Why not? What do you have against good players?
Why yes? What do you have against talented young players on cost controlled contracts with potential? Or are you actually trolling all the time?

The whole issue with the injury is worrying me. Spurs Doctors cleared him to play but he chooses not to.....  The whole year ! And now he is not even present at the games.

I don't like this attitude
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Androslav on April 17, 2018, 06:38:17 AM
No way I am trading Tatum for Leonard

Why not? What do you have against good players?
Why yes? What do you have against talented young players on cost controlled contracts with potential? Or are you actually trolling all the time?

The whole issue with the injury is worrying me. Spurs Doctors cleared him to play but he chooses not to.....  The whole year ! And now he is not even present at the games.

I don't like this attitude
@ederson, I agree that an injury itself is worry some.
However, since we don't have clear and 100% true info, I'll play Kawhi' camp for a sec.
Raining down on my 2nd most favorite NBA team.

- Celtic team docs also told IT that he will be fine. IT probably lost 10-30$ mil$ due to that. Maybe even 50 mil$. Kawhi could lose 100's of mil$. Then IT got traded too. Celts trainers were fired in the aftermath.
- I believe that SAS docs misdiagnosed or mistreated Kawhi's injury. Making him a potential 2nd IT. Him coming back for 9 games and then not returning makes me think that.
- Kawhi is an MVP tier of player. You just don't play with that. Just like you don't leave nukes on the side of the road. You take care of that under any circumstance, or it takes care of you.
- SAS don't strike me as overly talented team set up for the future. Kawhi can win titles elsewhere (BOS, LAL, PHILY...) more easily.
- This way, putting SAS organization in flux and pressuring their reputation, Kawhi can control his career more easily. All businessmen want that.
- POP could retire in a year or 2. He almost certainly won't be here for the next 10.
- Since TD retired so many info leaked from the organization. More than it did during the whole 2 decades prior to that.
- SAS - wake up - it is a players league.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: TheSundanceKid on April 17, 2018, 07:01:58 AM
I can see a scenario for a trade that involves a sign and trade of Smart to deal with the salary (still puts Boston into luxury tax I think).  Say Smart ($10M) Tatum ($6.7M) and you get there.  My a question is the resulting roster.  Do we start:

Irving
Brown
Leonard
Horford
Some other Big

And then bring Hayward off the bench as at 2/3 (or wing or whatever you want to all it).  Per 82games, Hayward split his time between 2 and 3 while Leonard played almost exclusively at 3 (based on 2016/17).  Hayward the next super 6th man?  Can Stevens/Ainge convince him to go along with this?  If so, I like this team.

And no, I do not want to have Hayward or Leonard play primarily at a big position.  There are 96 minutes at the 2 and 3.  There are enough minutes for them to not have to play as a PF except in limited small ball cases.
I think the sign and trades rules mean that for matching purposes the salary is halved. So for Smart to be $10m of matching salary, he would need to be signed to a contract worth $20m/yr which is unlikely.
Just makes matching salary all the harder.

As inexplicable as it is the best way to match salary is to include Hayward and I don't think that will happen
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 17, 2018, 07:31:59 AM
KL is mad at somebody in tue organization or is he done with pro ball.    Question is WHO ?   Players claim its not them.   OK ..

so that leaves Coaches or GM or owners or he has had some serious mental disorder has set in.

for him to totally ignore his teamates, not support them is ugly .   Pops usually has his players backs , especially his star player. 

No way I want him till he comes clean about his intentions.

A few NBA players have walked away from the sport in their prime , maybe he is having those thoughts.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: pearljammer10 on April 17, 2018, 08:24:01 AM
The thought of bringing in KL is appealing but man, I just don't think I could part with Jaylen or Tatum in that situation. Especially with the skepticism surrounding his year with the Spurs and his injury this year...

The Spurs wouldn't do it but I'd do a s+t of Smart, the Kings pick and a future celtics first for him. It is certainly not enough and the Spurs don't make a deal without Brown or Tatum but thats as far as I go.

What a pipe dream lineup:

Irving/Rozier/Larkin
Hayward/Brown
Leonard/Semi
Tatum/Morris
Horford/Baynes/Theis
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: incoherent on April 17, 2018, 10:51:02 AM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 17, 2018, 11:33:35 AM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 17, 2018, 11:37:12 AM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?

Yeah, I don't agree with this either.

I would, however, prefer both Tatum and Brown on cheapish deals vs Kawhi on the Supermax.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on April 17, 2018, 11:37:15 AM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
Top 20  is enough reason not to trade for him. With Embiid in the east we need a big. Keep Brown and Tatum while cheap. Embiid must be countered or we will not get out of the east we need our DJ to neutralize him.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: TheSundanceKid on April 17, 2018, 12:51:17 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
OK so is Kawhi really top 5? We surely have LeBron, Curry and Durant above him. Then we have a current MVP lock in Harden and a most recent MVP in Westbrook to consider. That doesn't take into account AD either.
Kawhi has been great in the Spurs system and in one finals he did an MVP job guarding LeBron. But let's not act like Kawhi is a guy that comes around once a generation.

Tatum and Brown has legit chances to reach the top 10 bracket and their skills complement each other well. They also fit the timeline of Kyrie and Gordon, particularly if this year is anything to go by.

It's not an unsound ascertain to want to keep Tatum and Brown for the long run, especially when their rookie contracts are taken into account.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 17, 2018, 01:04:02 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
OK so is Kawhi really top 5? We surely have LeBron, Curry and Durant above him. Then we have a current MVP lock in Harden and a most recent MVP in Westbrook to consider. That doesn't take into account AD either.
Kawhi has been great in the Spurs system and in one finals he did an MVP job guarding LeBron. But let's not act like Kawhi is a guy that comes around once a generation.

Tatum and Brown has legit chances to reach the top 10 bracket and their skills complement each other well. They also fit the timeline of Kyrie and Gordon, particularly if this year is anything to go by.

It's not an unsound ascertain to want to keep Tatum and Brown for the long run, especially when their rookie contracts are taken into account.
The last 3 seasons, Kawhi finished 10th, 2nd, and 3rd in MVP voting.  In those seasons he won DPOY twice and finished 3rd last year.  He was 1st team All NBA the last two seasons, while also being 1st Team All Defense all 3 of those seasons (he was 2nd team all defense 4 seasons ago).  So yeah, Kawhi is a top 5 player in the league, or at least he was at least the last 2 seasons if not the last 3 before getting hurt.

Kawhi is a much better fit in the Gordon and Kyrie timeline as he is right between them age wise.  He thus would maximize Boston's window over the next 3 years and would make a lot better use of the rest of Al's prime. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on April 17, 2018, 01:21:46 PM
Would this get it done:

Jaylen Brown
Terry Rozier
Marcus Morris
Daniel Theis
Guerschon Yabusele
2019 Grizzlies pick
2019 King’s pick
2019 Celtics pick

Kyrie
Gordon
Kawhi
Al

Big four plus Jayson Tatum still.  That’s a true championship contender.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 17, 2018, 01:26:01 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
OK so is Kawhi really top 5? We surely have LeBron, Curry and Durant above him. Then we have a current MVP lock in Harden and a most recent MVP in Westbrook to consider. That doesn't take into account AD either.
Kawhi has been great in the Spurs system and in one finals he did an MVP job guarding LeBron. But let's not act like Kawhi is a guy that comes around once a generation.

Tatum and Brown has legit chances to reach the top 10 bracket and their skills complement each other well. They also fit the timeline of Kyrie and Gordon, particularly if this year is anything to go by.

It's not an unsound ascertain to want to keep Tatum and Brown for the long run, especially when their rookie contracts are taken into account.
The last 3 seasons, Kawhi finished 10th, 2nd, and 3rd in MVP voting.  In those seasons he won DPOY twice and finished 3rd last year.  He was 1st team All NBA the last two seasons, while also being 1st Team All Defense all 3 of those seasons (he was 2nd team all defense 4 seasons ago).  So yeah, Kawhi is a top 5 player in the league, or at least he was at least the last 2 seasons if not the last 3 before getting hurt.

Kawhi is a much better fit in the Gordon and Kyrie timeline as he is right between them age wise.  He thus would maximize Boston's window over the next 3 years and would make a lot better use of the rest of Al's prime.

Assuming he's healthy....
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: KGs Knee on April 17, 2018, 01:51:53 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?

I do think it is likely Tatum will be a top 5 player in his prime.

I do not expect Brown to ever reach that level.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenEnvy on April 17, 2018, 01:52:05 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/
you expect Brown and Tatum to be both be top 5 players in the league?  really?
OK so is Kawhi really top 5? We surely have LeBron, Curry and Durant above him. Then we have a current MVP lock in Harden and a most recent MVP in Westbrook to consider. That doesn't take into account AD either.
Kawhi has been great in the Spurs system and in one finals he did an MVP job guarding LeBron. But let's not act like Kawhi is a guy that comes around once a generation.

Tatum and Brown has legit chances to reach the top 10 bracket and their skills complement each other well. They also fit the timeline of Kyrie and Gordon, particularly if this year is anything to go by.

It's not an unsound ascertain to want to keep Tatum and Brown for the long run, especially when their rookie contracts are taken into account.

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

Tatum and Brown may have a chance at becoming elite players, but Kawhi is unquestionably already there.

I wouldn’t trade both, but I would trade one. They look like they are gonna be great players, but Kawhi can turn us from contenders to the favorites imo.

The only reason Ainge shouldn’t pull the trigger is if the asking price is higher than one of them plus fillers or serious concerns over the salary cap/him resigning here.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: KGs Knee on April 17, 2018, 01:58:29 PM

Kawhi is a much better fit in the Gordon and Kyrie timeline as he is right between them age wise.  He thus would maximize Boston's window over the next 3 years and would make a lot better use of the rest of Al's prime. 

Ideally, you want the youngest, cheapest players possible that still allow you to compete for a title. Tatum and Brown are quickly proving they are plenty good enough to be the complementary 'stars' next to Kyrie/Hayward/Horford. It's better to have guys like Tatum and Brown that are already this good while still so young. That way as the trio of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford age Tatum and Brown can take over as the teams top two players.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: KGs Knee on April 17, 2018, 02:02:00 PM

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

None of this is true with the exception of maybe Westbrook.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on April 17, 2018, 03:00:14 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/

I think Tatum has Durant/Pierce "hybrid" potential. (He will be THAT good)

Brown has Kawhi potential. (Slightly weaker than Kawhi on defense BUT more athleticism)

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 17, 2018, 03:37:43 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/

I think Tatum has Durant/Pierce "hybrid" potential. (He will be THAT good)

Brown has Kawhi potential. (Slightly weaker than Kawhi on defense BUT more athleticism)

I don't think you are far off. I thought of Jimmy Butler with Jaylen Brown, but Brown looks really good and is really young. I do think Brown and Tatum are going to be all stars when they're 26.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on April 17, 2018, 03:44:49 PM
I expect Brown and Tatum to be better then Kawhi when it's all said and done/

I think Tatum has Durant/Pierce "hybrid" potential. (He will be THAT good)

Brown has Kawhi potential. (Slightly weaker than Kawhi on defense BUT more athleticism)

I don't think you are far off. I thought of Jimmy Butler with Jaylen Brown, but Brown looks really good and is really young. I do think Brown and Tatum are going to be all stars when they're 26.

Yeah I originally thought of Brown as becoming the next J. Butler as well.

But he's grown on me even more this season. Even if he doesn't reach that Kawhi-ceiling, I think we have our own Jimmy Butler in Jaylen (w/slightly better athleticism and 3 pt. shot)  ;D

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenEnvy on April 17, 2018, 05:00:15 PM

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

None of this is true with the exception of maybe Westbrook.

Yeah I guess defense doesn’t matter.

Kawhi is absolutely on their (LBJ, KD) level. He’s a top-3 player when healthy. You probably just look at box scores/ESPN and never watch him, so that’s understandable.

And what are the ages of LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: gouki88 on April 17, 2018, 05:09:21 PM

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

None of this is true with the exception of maybe Westbrook.

Yeah I guess defense doesn’t matter.

Kawhi is absolutely on their (LBJ, KD) level. He’s a top-3 player when healthy. You probably just look at box scores/ESPN and never watch him, so that’s understandable.

And what are the ages of LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi?
Agree GreenEnvy
Kawhi, LeBron, Durant and AD are the top guys in the league
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: KGs Knee on April 17, 2018, 05:20:11 PM

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

None of this is true with the exception of maybe Westbrook.

Yeah I guess defense doesn’t matter.

Kawhi is absolutely on their (LBJ, KD) level. He’s a top-3 player when healthy. You probably just look at box scores/ESPN and never watch him, so that’s understandable.

And what are the ages of LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi?

First, how about responding with something of substance instead of just resorting to personal attacks.  You don't have the slightest idea how much basketball I watch, so it's best to not make silly assumptions.

Secondly, I never said defense doesn't matter.  But being a "go to" scorer who can facilitate an entire offense matters more.  And every single one of the other players you mentioned can do so, whereas Kawhi cannot.  Sure Kawhi can get his own, but he isn't as efficient, and he really is not much of a creator of offense for others.  The only reason I said Westbrook might not be better than Kawhi is because he isn't very efficient (not at an elite level), and I question how much of a team player he really is.

Lastly, I'm not sure what age has to do with who is currently a better player between LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi.  Age only matter in terms of long-term value, but that isn't what was being discussed.

The bottom line is LeBron, Durant, Davis, Harden, and Curry are all better players than Kawhi because they can do something Kawhi cannot, and that something (elite scorer/facilitator) is the most important skill in basketball.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on April 17, 2018, 05:42:11 PM
At this point I don't want him as a Celtic

I don't understand this "his medical staff"....are you kidding me? 

A player should follow an organizations medical staff advice/referral.  Isn't there somewhere in the contract that it has to be this way or else suspension without pay?

Its one thing if he declares unfit to play but all of this "his own" team stuff is strange to say the least

He isn't even around supporting his team. Doesn't provide interviews as to how he is doing etc.

Some team may take a risk and trade for him. But Celts should not take a risk (give up Tatum for example) on a player (regardless who they are) , that does not communicate properly
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenEnvy on April 17, 2018, 05:58:40 PM

Kawhi is a better player than Harden, Westbrook and even Curry. He’s on LeBron’s and Durant’s level, but 6 and 3 years younger, respectively.

None of this is true with the exception of maybe Westbrook.

Yeah I guess defense doesn’t matter.

Kawhi is absolutely on their (LBJ, KD) level. He’s a top-3 player when healthy. You probably just look at box scores/ESPN and never watch him, so that’s understandable.

And what are the ages of LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi?

First, how about responding with something of substance instead of just resorting to personal attacks.  You don't have the slightest idea how much basketball I watch, so it's best to not make silly assumptions.

Secondly, I never said defense doesn't matter.  But being a "go to" scorer who can facilitate an entire offense matters more.  And every single one of the other players you mentioned can do so, whereas Kawhi cannot.  Sure Kawhi can get his own, but he isn't as efficient, and he really is not much of a creator of offense for others.  The only reason I said Westbrook might not be better than Kawhi is because he isn't very efficient (not at an elite level), and I question how much of a team player he really is.

Lastly, I'm not sure what age has to do with who is currently a better player between LeBron, Durant, and Kawhi.  Age only matter in terms of long-term value, but that isn't what was being discussed.

The bottom line is LeBron, Durant, Davis, Harden, and Curry are all better players than Kawhi because they can do something Kawhi cannot, and that something (elite scorer/facilitator) is the most important skill in basketball.

I wouldn’t exactly call Westbrook and Harden “efficient” scorers, as their career percentages are noticeably lower than Kawhi’s. Curry does have a higher eFG% than Kawhi, he actually is efficient. Kawhi was the go-to scorer on an offense that posted a 121 ORtg with him scoring 27.5 per36.

His defense is clearly notches above everyone we’re discussing. I would argue the defensive gap is greater than the offensive one.

His ORtg-DRtg is significantly better than both Westbrook and Harden (and equal to Curry).

There’s no question he’s not going to put up triple doubles weekly, randomly drop 60 or splash 11 treys in a game. But he will lock down the opposing player and score 25 every night.

And as far as age, I originally posted that in reference to his value compared to other elite players regarding trading a Brown/Tatum for, and you quoted that with the reply that nothing about that is true. If you want to pick a sentence out of my post and call it untrue (in your opinion), don’t include parts that are factual.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 17, 2018, 07:58:51 PM
This thread reminds me of all those threads where people wouldn't trade Rondo straight up for Westbrook or Paul.  Hopefully Brown and Tatum aren't Rondo but it can't just be disregarded especially since Rondo was better than Brown and Tatum at that point in time.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: PAOBoston on April 17, 2018, 08:09:19 PM
I loved KL going into this season but this year has certainly made me sour on him some. I still think he's talented but it's hard not to raise an eyebrow at this entire situation in SA. Is he hurt? If so, it's taken him a over a year to come back from a thigh bruise? That's kind of a problem.

If not hurt, is it mental or is this really all just about him not getting a supermax deal? How does one legit get that unhappy with the best run franchise in the NBA and best coach in the NBA? There are issues there and maybe a change of scenery change that. But ask yourself this: if it was nay other star (like Lebron or KD), they would be getting crucified right now. KL is getting a major pass for basically quitting on his team. That's a serious red flag imo and considering the cost it would take to get him, you better be [dang] sure he is both healthy physically and has his head screwed on straight. All this talk about "his camp" worries me.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: __ramonezy__ on April 18, 2018, 08:56:11 AM
In this scenario, Kawhi's silent persona works against him and in lieu of facts everyone is left to assume what is happening to him physically as a player. I wish he'd do a one-minute players tribune piece to just let us know what's wrong with him... this isn't even from a Celtics perspective... but just as a fan of the game, I'd love to know what made him shut it down after 9 games back. What is his medical team seeing that the Spurs' is ignoring/overlooking? When the stars don't play, the entire league loses.... I would love to see Kawhi in this 2-7 matchup about now without Steph
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: tonydelk on April 18, 2018, 09:07:49 AM
There is no reason to have Kawhi on this team.  The C's would have to give up too much to get him when they have a guy who is becoming him and is cheaper.  No thanks.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: mutineer33 on April 18, 2018, 09:41:09 AM
Let's put an end to this silly nonsense ASAP.  Kahwi quit on his team because it was a contract year. Watch how Jalen Brown is doing. I would not trade him straight up for Kahwi, and I am not one to overhype young players.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: IDreamCeltics on April 22, 2018, 06:50:56 PM
Honestly, Kawhi to Philly makes the most sense.  They could trade Fultz, Covington, Reddick, and Picks for Kawhi.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Bobshot on April 24, 2018, 10:29:52 AM
I read today Pop won't trade Leonard to Lakers. I would guess the Celtics would be acceptable trade partners, but they would have to give up Brown or Tatum and a lot of salary fodder. Maybe they could deal Hayward for Leonard straight up. But there are injury questions for both.

My guess is nothing happens. The Celtics are in a better position than the Spurs. Their main need right now is for somebody longer than Leonard who can protect the rim and defend guys like Embiid and Davis.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Rakulp on April 24, 2018, 11:04:30 AM
Let's put an end to this silly nonsense ASAP.  Kahwi quit on his team because it was a contract year. Watch how Jalen Brown is doing. I would not trade him straight up for Kahwi, and I am not one to overhype young players.

Brown should be in green for many years to come!
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 24, 2018, 11:05:46 AM
I read today Pop won't trade Leonard to Lakers. I would guess the Celtics would be acceptable trade partners, but they would have to give up Brown or Tatum and a lot of salary fodder. Maybe they could deal Hayward for Leonard straight up. But there are injury questions for both.

My guess is nothing happens. The Celtics are in a better position than the Spurs. Their main need right now is for somebody longer than Leonard who can protect the rim and defend guys like Embiid and Davis.

LOL...Glade you posted this ,  POps is smart , yeah that would like shooting yourself in the foot , trading your best player to your mortal enemy.   If he lets him go and Leonard probaby know this it will be to the east .  Philly has lots of players to send back Pops would love . 

Philly seems like a good landing spot , or would NY send Zinger for Leonard.  Heat doesn't have players I would want in trade and not many assets that are great .  Goatside is not a Pops type player.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: footey on April 24, 2018, 11:11:09 AM
Honestly, Kawhi to Philly makes the most sense.  They could trade Fultz, Covington, Reddick, and Picks for Kawhi.

Reddick on a one year contract, so that doesn't work.  Fultz is still an open question on his value.  Covington is a throw in like Crowder was, not great value in a trade of this magnitude. How many great picks do Sixers have left, assuming Laker pick is not number 1?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: wdleehi on April 24, 2018, 11:11:58 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Donoghus on April 24, 2018, 11:17:49 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.

A healthy Kawhi & Giannis on the same floor would be scary as heck. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Fafnir on April 24, 2018, 11:26:13 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That's the sort of deal you only take if the player is insisting, CP3 style I think. Kawhi has a lot of leverage, but he's not at his option year yet to dictate that much.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Fafnir on April 24, 2018, 11:29:46 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.

A healthy Kawhi & Giannis on the same floor would be scary as heck.
Yeah that's the sort of move the Bucks need to look for, get another elite player next to Giannis, especially one who is a secondary creator.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Donoghus on April 24, 2018, 11:36:42 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.

A healthy Kawhi & Giannis on the same floor would be scary as heck.
Yeah that's the sort of move the Bucks need to look for, get another elite player next to Giannis, especially one who is a secondary creator.

Those two out in transition on the open court during a fast break might legit kill someone. If nothing else, they'd set a new record for posterizations.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on April 24, 2018, 11:43:07 AM
I don't hate the Hayward and a pick for Kawhi idea. Don't know if Danny would do it, butadding Kawhi at SF to this team instead of Hayward...wow.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Monkhouse on April 24, 2018, 11:54:20 AM
I don't hate the Hayward and a pick for Kawhi idea. Don't know if Danny would do it, butadding Kawhi at SF to this team instead of Hayward...wow.

I would absolutely do that trade. I love Hayward, but Kawhi is clearly far better.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 24, 2018, 11:56:00 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: wdleehi on April 24, 2018, 12:01:26 PM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.


Really?   26 year old player averaging 20 5 and 4 plus a 6-5 PG averaging 13 points (plus other player for salary and likely a draft pick)

For a player who is either really hurt or refusing to play for his current team. 

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Monkhouse on April 24, 2018, 12:01:43 PM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.

Have to think the Spurs would ask for Middleton, Brogdon, and either Thon Maker, or a few draft picks.

Either way, why would the Spurs even want Middleton? If they trade Kawhi, they are looking to re-tool, (Middleton is a fringe All-star, but is he even that great of a player? Certainly downgraded expectations,) or completely re-build.

What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.


Really?   26 year old player averaging 20 5 and 4 plus a 6-5 PG averaging 13 points (plus other player for salary and likely a draft pick)

For a player who is either really hurt or refusing to play for his current team.

Have to keep in mind, there will be other teams that will offer more tantalizing prospects or assets.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Moranis on April 24, 2018, 12:11:37 PM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.

Have to think the Spurs would ask for Middleton, Brogdon, and either Thon Maker, or a few draft picks.

Either way, why would the Spurs even want Middleton? If they trade Kawhi, they are looking to re-tool, (Middleton is a fringe All-star, but is he even that great of a player? Certainly downgraded expectations,) or completely re-build.

What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.


Really?   26 year old player averaging 20 5 and 4 plus a 6-5 PG averaging 13 points (plus other player for salary and likely a draft pick)

For a player who is either really hurt or refusing to play for his current team.

Have to keep in mind, there will be other teams that will offer more tantalizing prospects or assets.
Yeah you've hit on my sentiments.  Middleton makes no sense for San Antonio and they would get a much better offer from other teams (whether it is a rebuilding offer or a win now offer).  The Sixers, for example, can put together a much better package without much issue.  Covington, Saric, and Fultz is much better than anything the Bucks can offer (outside of Giannis obviously).  Sixers can even take on some "bad" contracts if the Spurs would rather rebuild.  The Knicks can offer Hardaway, Frank N, and #9 for Leonard.  I'd rather have that then the Bucks offer.  Obviously the Celtics can put together a great package.  And despite what Pop may be saying, if the Lakers came with an offer of Ingram and Kuzma for Leonard, Leonard would be a Laker before he was a Buck.   
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Eja117 on May 02, 2018, 08:37:21 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23366667/inside-tension-kawhi-leonard-spurs (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23366667/inside-tension-kawhi-leonard-spurs)

It's starting to sound to me like maybe Kawhi has a really serious quad issue and I also don't really want any part of a guy with a camp that will always be looking for 2nd opinions and stuff like that.

I'd be fine with Kawhi once he makes it through a full season. But definitely not before.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on May 02, 2018, 09:08:22 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.

Have to think the Spurs would ask for Middleton, Brogdon, and either Thon Maker, or a few draft picks.

Either way, why would the Spurs even want Middleton? If they trade Kawhi, they are looking to re-tool, (Middleton is a fringe All-star, but is he even that great of a player? Certainly downgraded expectations,) or completely re-build.

What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.


Really?   26 year old player averaging 20 5 and 4 plus a 6-5 PG averaging 13 points (plus other player for salary and likely a draft pick)

For a player who is either really hurt or refusing to play for his current team.

Have to keep in mind, there will be other teams that will offer more tantalizing prospects or assets.
Yeah you've hit on my sentiments.  Middleton makes no sense for San Antonio and they would get a much better offer from other teams (whether it is a rebuilding offer or a win now offer).  The Sixers, for example, can put together a much better package without much issue.  Covington, Saric, and Fultz is much better than anything the Bucks can offer (outside of Giannis obviously).  Sixers can even take on some "bad" contracts if the Spurs would rather rebuild.  The Knicks can offer Hardaway, Frank N, and #9 for Leonard.  I'd rather have that then the Bucks offer.  Obviously the Celtics can put together a great package.  And despite what Pop may be saying, if the Lakers came with an offer of Ingram and Kuzma for Leonard, Leonard would be a Laker before he was a Buck.   

The Spurs were one of the first teams to place a high value on personality type and confidence when considering various players for a team. Fultz does not match their organization in that way.

If they aren't interested in Fultz, the Spurs may still want Saric, but there is no one else on their roster (outside of Embiid and Simmons) that gives the Spurs enough value to make it happen.

The Lakers are a real possibility. If they could somehow create enough space to sign George and James, while trading for Leonard, that's a scary team, at least for a few years.

I think the Bucks could be in play. Middleton is really good at basketball. If the Bucks included Parker, Wilson, and/or Brogdon, I think the Spurs would think about it.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on May 02, 2018, 11:16:43 AM
Quote
I also don't really want any part of a guy with a camp that will always be looking for 2nd opinions and stuff like that.

Why? Shouldn’t we want guys that take care of their bodies?

If memory serves, Kyrie got a second opinion. I would assume that most players do.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 11:19:22 AM
What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.

Have to think the Spurs would ask for Middleton, Brogdon, and either Thon Maker, or a few draft picks.

Either way, why would the Spurs even want Middleton? If they trade Kawhi, they are looking to re-tool, (Middleton is a fringe All-star, but is he even that great of a player? Certainly downgraded expectations,) or completely re-build.

What about to the Bucks?   Middleton plus someone (maybe Brogdon with other filler) for Kawhi.


Would help the Bucks take the next step.   Would give SA a prime player that would likely fit the culture.
That is a terrible trade for San An though.


Really?   26 year old player averaging 20 5 and 4 plus a 6-5 PG averaging 13 points (plus other player for salary and likely a draft pick)

For a player who is either really hurt or refusing to play for his current team.

Have to keep in mind, there will be other teams that will offer more tantalizing prospects or assets.
Yeah you've hit on my sentiments.  Middleton makes no sense for San Antonio and they would get a much better offer from other teams (whether it is a rebuilding offer or a win now offer).  The Sixers, for example, can put together a much better package without much issue.  Covington, Saric, and Fultz is much better than anything the Bucks can offer (outside of Giannis obviously).  Sixers can even take on some "bad" contracts if the Spurs would rather rebuild.  The Knicks can offer Hardaway, Frank N, and #9 for Leonard.  I'd rather have that then the Bucks offer.  Obviously the Celtics can put together a great package.  And despite what Pop may be saying, if the Lakers came with an offer of Ingram and Kuzma for Leonard, Leonard would be a Laker before he was a Buck.   

If LAL offers Kuzma and Ingram BOTH (and some future pick), then Spurs are trading Leonard to them right away lol. They'd be foolish not to. Don't see anyone beating that to be honest either except *maybe* Phoenix (if their pick lands Top-2 and they are willing to package it AND add in a prospect like Bender/Jackson).

Quote
I also don't really want any part of a guy with a camp that will always be looking for 2nd opinions and stuff like that.

Why? Shouldn’t we want guys that take care of their bodies?

If memory serves, Kyrie got a second opinion. I would assume that most players do.

It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on May 02, 2018, 11:37:24 AM
Quote
It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:

Don’t worry, if the trade goes down 90% of the blog will be on board with it within 24 hours. Fan loyalty tends to last almost exactly as long as management decides to keep a player on a roster.

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Monkhouse on May 02, 2018, 11:39:16 AM
If we add Kawhi while giving up Brown or Tatum without giving up both, we are the clear favorites to win the championship next year. Kawhi is quite literally the only player that can give Durant, Klay, or Curry absolute fits on defense.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Alleyoopster on May 02, 2018, 11:43:28 AM
Realize Kawhi is a great player and a lot of CB members love the idea of him coming to Boston.

I'm definitely not on board. Just seeing the post come up over and over again makes me nauseous. He has a serious injury and it hasn't healed in over a year. Chances are it could haunt him until he retires. Why all the interest in a broken product?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nostar on May 02, 2018, 12:18:00 PM
Quote
It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:

Lots of us want Leonard. The question is not do we want to trade for an mvp candidate. The questions are what are we giving up and will he stay long-term.

The only reason I'm not giving up both Js is that I don't think he would stay in Boston. If I knew he would stay, I'd have no hesitation in trading that package for him.

Ideally we'd keep Brown and move Jayson, Tito and the Sac19 pick (with salary filler).

I risk it. Not everyone would. Roy is not alone :)
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: trickybilly on May 02, 2018, 12:33:52 PM
Quote
It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:

Lots of us want Leonard. The question is not do we want to trade for an mvp candidate. The questions are what are we giving up and will he stay long-term.

The only reason I'm not giving up both Js is that I don't think he would stay in Boston. If I knew he would stay, I'd have no hesitation in trading that package for him.

Ideally we'd keep Brown and move Jayson, Tito and the Sac19 pick (with salary filler).

I risk it. Not everyone would. Roy is not alone :)


Less than negative zero farenheit chance Al is moved...
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Vermont Green on May 02, 2018, 12:41:44 PM
Realize Kawhi is a great player and a lot of CB members love the idea of him coming to Boston.

I'm definitely not on board. Just seeing the post come up over and over again makes me nauseous. He has a serious injury and it hasn't healed in over a year. Chances are it could haunt him until he retires. Why all the interest in a broken product?

I don't know that you can state as fact that the injury will haunt him until he retires (I know you said "could") but any trade would be contingent on a physical.  Likely we would have access to medical records as part of the trade discussion.  Obviously, if it is determined that in fact the injury will never fully heal until he retires, then there will be no trade with anyone. 

I read somewhere that if there was a structural issue with the tendon or the connection of the tendon to the knee, that it should be easy to identify.  No one knows what is going on.  I imagine they have done tons of MRIs.  No one is going to trade for Kahwi unless they feel pretty sure what is going on.  I don't think there is enough information to deem him "damaged" or "broken" though.  I am sure plenty of teams (including Boston) will be happy have discussion on him.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on May 02, 2018, 01:07:30 PM
Realize Kawhi is a great player and a lot of CB members love the idea of him coming to Boston.

I'm definitely not on board. Just seeing the post come up over and over again makes me nauseous. He has a serious injury and it hasn't healed in over a year. Chances are it could haunt him until he retires. Why all the interest in a broken product?

I don't know that you can state as fact that the injury will haunt him until he retires (I know you said "could") but any trade would be contingent on a physical.  Likely we would have access to medical records as part of the trade discussion.  Obviously, if it is determined that in fact the injury will never fully heal until he retires, then there will be no trade with anyone. 

I read somewhere that if there was a structural issue with the tendon or the connection of the tendon to the knee, that it should be easy to identify.  No one knows what is going on.  I imagine they have done tons of MRIs.  No one is going to trade for Kahwi unless they feel pretty sure what is going on.  I don't think there is enough information to deem him "damaged" or "broken" though.  I am sure plenty of teams (including Boston) will be happy have discussion on him.

Personally, if the Spurs' medical staff and whatever experts Leonard has had for his treatment to THIS day still can't agree on what is going on, I'm not going to trust what a Boston medical staff would evaluate based solely on a quick physical and historical medical records.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on May 02, 2018, 01:21:23 PM
Quote
I also don't really want any part of a guy with a camp that will always be looking for 2nd opinions and stuff like that.

Why? Shouldn’t we want guys that take care of their bodies?

If memory serves, Kyrie got a second opinion. I would assume that most players do.
I would hope all pro athletes would go for 2nd and 3rd opinions on serious injuries or ailments. Their body is their main asset. Best to make sure you have the right diagnosis and getting the right treatment. An athlete should never be beholden to just one medical staff. Never
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on May 02, 2018, 01:39:07 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23366667/inside-tension-kawhi-leonard-spurs (http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23366667/inside-tension-kawhi-leonard-spurs)

It's starting to sound to me like maybe Kawhi has a really serious quad issue and I also don't really want any part of a guy with a camp that will always be looking for 2nd opinions and stuff like that.

I'd be fine with Kawhi once he makes it through a full season. But definitely not before.
From the article:

Quote
TO UNDERSTAND HOW the Spurs and Leonard got to this uncomfortable place, you must first understand the quadriceps injury that kept him out all season. And if you can do that, well, you might be way ahead of the specialists who have treated Leonard throughout this process. In conversations with multiple sources close to Leonard and the Spurs, there is some disagreement about the exact nature of the injury.

Leonard's camp believes his condition is the result of a series of contusions to the quadriceps that began with one very deep bruise in March 2016 that caused him to miss three games. Leonard was again listed with a "quad contusion" on the Feb. 6, 2017, injury report, when he was a late scratch before a game. But it wasn't until the end of last season when the severity of the injury became apparent.

According to multiple sources, Leonard's camp has come to believe the issue has more to do with an ossification, or hardening, in the area where the muscle has been repeatedly bruised, and then an atrophy, which in turn affected the tendons connecting the muscle to the knee.

The Spurs have always called the injury quadriceps tendinopathy, which is a disease of the tendon that has a degenerative effect on the muscle by keeping it in a constant state of exhaustion.


"Kawhi is the same person. The only thing that has changed about him is the people speaking for him now."
A league source with knowledge of the situation
The treatment course for each diagnosis (a muscle issue vs. a tendon issue) is different, which has become another source of tension in the relationship.

Initially the Spurs' doctors were calling the shots, with Leonard following their protocols for most of last summer in his workouts in San Antonio with team staffers and San Diego with his longtime personal trainer. But things began to change in August as Leonard continued to experience discomfort, according to sources.

His agent, Mitch Frankel, and uncle, Dennis Robertson, began pressing the Spurs to consult outside opinions. Last fall, Dr. Keith Pyne, the managing partner of SportsLab NYC, which is affiliated with the Washington Nationals and New York Islanders, began consulting on the case.

Leonard briefly returned to the Spurs for nine games from mid-December through mid-January. The Spurs were conservative in their approach. He'd play one game, then sit out the next game regardless of how many days later it was scheduled. After scoring 19 points in 28 minutes in a win over Denver on Jan. 13, he complained of soreness in the area once again. He traveled with the team to Atlanta -- a game he was scheduled to sit out anyway -- and Brooklyn, but instead of playing against the Nets, Popovich announced at shootaround that Leonard was being shut down indefinitely.

"He didn't reinjure it or anything, but he was having pain, but not right after games, but maybe the next day at noon or that kind of thing and so the pain wasn't dissipating," Popovich said at the time. "It wasn't going in the right direction."

play
0:58
Popovich heartbroken by Kawhi news but looking aheadGregg Popovich says it's horrible to be without Kawhi Leonard indefinitely but sheds some light on the situation by explaining how the team is preparing for the remainder of the season.
What Popovich did not say at the time, however, was that while Leonard was in New York, he saw Dr. Jonathan Glashow, an orthopedic surgeon and co-chair of Sports Medicine at New York City's Mount Sinai Medical Center who has professional affiliations with the New Jersey Devils and Philadelphia 76ers.

Frankel and Robertson arranged the consultation, according to multiple sources, and the Spurs were informed of the decision and the doctor's recommendations. From this point forward, Glashow and his team have guided the rehabilitation program, sources said. The Spurs have had staffers in New York to observe and assist in Leonard's work, which has primarily taken place at the NBA Players Association headquarters in midtown Manhattan.

The frustration on the Spurs' end stems from losing control of the medical care of their franchise player, and the way in which the entire process has been handled by Leonard's representation, according to multiple sources.

So that people understand why Kawhi and the Spurs are at odds. The Spurs think its a tendon problem which has to be treated one way, was being treated that way and wasn't working. After 2nd and third opinions by well respected medical people, Kawhi is being told it is a muscle problem that is causing tendon pain. This problem requires a different treatment. Both problems could be long term degenerative problems. Could being the operative word there, so getting the right diagnosis and treatment is critical.

All this makes me see Kawhi as a guy out looking for his long term health and ability to make money. I don't see that as Jawhi quitting on his team or being a head case in any way. Hope he gets well soon.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 02, 2018, 01:59:42 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better


Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 02, 2018, 02:04:24 PM
Quote
Chris Mannix: “I think Boston will make a competitive offer [for Leonard]. And I think it’s possible that Kawhi Leonard is a Celtic next season.”
Don't think so Chris

Unless they be willing to take Al horford, Rozier, Semi and 2019 1st


Again if the Celts medical staff can't evaluate and be allowed to help with his issue....doesn't immediately hangs up the phone
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on May 02, 2018, 02:26:48 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better
Exactly why does he need to get a sign off from the team? So if they say no, the player has to abide by what the team medical staff says, even if they are wrong and could be doing more harm than good? No one, player or regular person should ever have to get a sign off from their employer to seek medical care.

And, the Spurs medical staff had been working on this problem since the end of the 2016-17 season and through the summer. Things weren't getting better or moving forward at all. So Kawhi 2nd opinions were sought. It sounds like the Spurs worked with an outside physician for a while. So for months and months and months, Kawhi did what the Spurs said and nothing was happening. How long is he supposed to continue doing what the team medical staff is telling him what to do if it isn't having a positive effect at all. It was at that point that he went to New York fir another opinion and then the Spurs seemed to get angry.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 04:24:01 PM
Quote
It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:

Lots of us want Leonard. The question is not do we want to trade for an mvp candidate. The questions are what are we giving up and will he stay long-term.

The only reason I'm not giving up both Js is that I don't think he would stay in Boston. If I knew he would stay, I'd have no hesitation in trading that package for him.

Ideally we'd keep Brown and move Jayson, Tito and the Sac19 pick (with salary filler).

I risk it. Not everyone would. Roy is not alone :)

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/10EPwHlsBhDKDu/200.gif)

I mean yes, there are quite a few here who would love to acquire Leonard and wouldn't mind a reasonable package for him, but that idea is just... meh.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 04:26:15 PM
Guys, Boston ISN'T even on Kawhi's preferred Trade List.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/05/01/kawhi-leonard-could-end-up-with-lakers-76ers-knicks-or-clippers-gregg-popovich-retiring/

It's Lakers, Clippers, Knicks or Sixers. *Maybe* even Miami according to one report I saw.

He wants a big market. All of them except maybe PHI are bigger markets than Boston I think. Either way, it doesn't look like BOS is on his trade list according to reports.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 02, 2018, 04:40:19 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better
Exactly why does he need to get a sign off from the team? So if they say no, the player has to abide by what the team medical staff says, even if they are wrong and could be doing more harm than good? No one, player or regular person should ever have to get a sign off from their employer to seek medical care.

And, the Spurs medical staff had been working on this problem since the end of the 2016-17 season and through the summer. Things weren't getting better or moving forward at all. So Kawhi 2nd opinions were sought. It sounds like the Spurs worked with an outside physician for a while. So for months and months and months, Kawhi did what the Spurs said and nothing was happening. How long is he supposed to continue doing what the team medical staff is telling him what to do if it isn't having a positive effect at all. It was at that point that he went to New York fir another opinion and then the Spurs seemed to get angry.

eh?

Let me put it to you this way

What is the point of passing a physical then?   Or a team wanting to check a player who just came off an injury before they dole out a big contract to sign them?

Why can't the player and agent just say, "don't worry about it,  our guys got checked it out, its all good"

If a player is injured,  the protocol is to see the team medical staff.  Then to get an assessment and "fix" the issue. So that the player can get back on the court healthy

In this situation it sounds like the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, and wanted to help Leonard rehab/keep track of his progression or road bumps to ultimately have him comeback 100 percent

Instead, sounds like Leonard and his crew (at some point of the assessment) didn't like or was unsure about the Spurs medical staff assessment and went somewhere else and got a different answer.

If this is not undermining the teams medical staff, what is??   The team who is paying you millions of dollars should be in the front of the line to understand what is going on with your injury/health issues.   The Spurs organization at the moment from what it sounds like,  are in the dark with this 2nd opinion.     

Does this sit right with you??
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: flybono on May 02, 2018, 04:40:20 PM
LOL

As constituted next season with some slight tweaking on the bench and zero injury's, Championship Contender!

Print It!
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenEnvy on May 02, 2018, 04:41:40 PM
Guys, Boston ISN'T even on Kawhi's preferred Trade List.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/05/01/kawhi-leonard-could-end-up-with-lakers-76ers-knicks-or-clippers-gregg-popovich-retiring/

It's Lakers, Clippers, Knicks or Sixers. *Maybe* even Miami according to one report I saw.

He wants a big market. All of them except maybe PHI are bigger markets than Boston I think. Either way, it doesn't look like BOS is on his trade list according to reports.

Was Boston on Kyrie’s supposed list? I forget who but someone let it slip in an interview that he wanted to play for Stevens or something like that, but otherwise I don’t recall Boston as a preferred destination.

Regardless, who really cares? If he needs to be traded, Spurs will not take nickels on the dollar just to send him to a team he wants. I can’t see him being unhappy coming to Boston or making outrageous demands to force his way somewhere specific. Nobody has ever questioned his attitude until all of this and I’m sure there is more here than we know about.

I wouldn’t consider a team like the Clippers (or Nets) big market when they will always be second-fiddle to the real team in their city. Is Miami really a bigger market than Boston? We know who has the better crowd lol.

If I was the Knicks, I would make a real run at him if they could. Not sure what they can dangle without KP included but they should make the call and see.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: footey on May 02, 2018, 04:46:00 PM
Quote
It feels like Roy is the only guy who truly wants Leonard here (when you read most of the posts under this thread)  :laugh:

Don’t worry, if the trade goes down 90% of the blog will be on board with it within 24 hours. Fan loyalty tends to last almost exactly as long as management decides to keep a player on a roster.

So true.

Remind me, what grade did you give the Kyrie Trade? 😏
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 02, 2018, 04:46:28 PM
Guys, Boston ISN'T even on Kawhi's preferred Trade List.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/05/01/kawhi-leonard-could-end-up-with-lakers-76ers-knicks-or-clippers-gregg-popovich-retiring/

It's Lakers, Clippers, Knicks or Sixers. *Maybe* even Miami according to one report I saw.

He wants a big market. All of them except maybe PHI are bigger markets than Boston I think. Either way, it doesn't look like BOS is on his trade list according to reports.

Was Boston on Kyrie’s supposed list? I forget who but someone let it slip in an interview that he wanted to play for Stevens or something like that, but otherwise I don’t recall Boston as a preferred destination.

Regardless, who really cares? If he needs to be traded, Spurs will not take nickels on the dollar just to send him to a team he wants. I can’t see him being unhappy coming to Boston or making outrageous demands to force his way somewhere specific. Nobody has ever questioned his attitude until all of this and I’m sure there is more here than we know about.

I wouldn’t consider a team like the Clippers (or Nets) big market when they will always be second-fiddle to the real team in their city. Is Miami really a bigger market than Boston? We know who has the better crowd lol.

If I was the Knicks, I would make a real run at him if they could. Not sure what they can dangle without KP included but they should make the call and see.

I don't think it is either.  I think it will be either the Lakers or the Knicks

Celtics as the darkhorse.  But I don't think Danny wants to be involved with this mess

Danny cut off Josh Jackson bc of BJ Armstrong trickery.... he doesn't care for that
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on May 02, 2018, 04:47:11 PM
I'd rather roll with a healthy Kyrie, GH, JB and see how the rest of this core of ours plays out - especially next season.

Love Kawhi but imagine a fully healthy Celtics team RIGHT NOW........
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 04:47:53 PM
Guys, Boston ISN'T even on Kawhi's preferred Trade List.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/05/01/kawhi-leonard-could-end-up-with-lakers-76ers-knicks-or-clippers-gregg-popovich-retiring/

It's Lakers, Clippers, Knicks or Sixers. *Maybe* even Miami according to one report I saw.

He wants a big market. All of them except maybe PHI are bigger markets than Boston I think. Either way, it doesn't look like BOS is on his trade list according to reports.

Was Boston on Kyrie’s supposed list? I forget who but someone let it slip in an interview that he wanted to play for Stevens or something like that, but otherwise I don’t recall Boston as a preferred destination.

Regardless, who really cares? If he needs to be traded, Spurs will not take nickels on the dollar just to send him to a team he wants. I can’t see him being unhappy coming to Boston or making outrageous demands to force his way somewhere specific. Nobody has ever questioned his attitude until all of this and I’m sure there is more here than we know about.

I wouldn’t consider a team like the Clippers (or Nets) big market when they will always be second-fiddle to the real team in their city. Is Miami really a bigger market than Boston? We know who has the better crowd lol.

If I was the Knicks, I would make a real run at him if they could. Not sure what they can dangle without KP included but they should make the call and see.

I think David Griffin (former Cavaliers GM, who had also been fired recently at the time) went on The Jump early August and said Kyrie had Boston on his list.

Ultimately, no one knew about that until about 2 weeks AFTER we heard the first few reports that Kyrie wanted OUT of Cleveland.

Maybe we hear in the coming days that Boston is included.

That said, I think other teams can make better offers and ultimately I'm fine with that. We are a championship team already (when healthy of course) and I'd rather keep Jaylen AND Tatum. Plus, let a team like LAL give up Ingram + Kuzma for him, or another team overpay slightly.

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Rondo9 on May 02, 2018, 05:06:21 PM
Guys, Boston ISN'T even on Kawhi's preferred Trade List.

https://thebiglead.com/2018/05/01/kawhi-leonard-could-end-up-with-lakers-76ers-knicks-or-clippers-gregg-popovich-retiring/

It's Lakers, Clippers, Knicks or Sixers. *Maybe* even Miami according to one report I saw.

He wants a big market. All of them except maybe PHI are bigger markets than Boston I think. Either way, it doesn't look like BOS is on his trade list according to reports.

That sounds like speculation.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on May 02, 2018, 05:35:04 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better
Exactly why does he need to get a sign off from the team? So if they say no, the player has to abide by what the team medical staff says, even if they are wrong and could be doing more harm than good? No one, player or regular person should ever have to get a sign off from their employer to seek medical care.

And, the Spurs medical staff had been working on this problem since the end of the 2016-17 season and through the summer. Things weren't getting better or moving forward at all. So Kawhi 2nd opinions were sought. It sounds like the Spurs worked with an outside physician for a while. So for months and months and months, Kawhi did what the Spurs said and nothing was happening. How long is he supposed to continue doing what the team medical staff is telling him what to do if it isn't having a positive effect at all. It was at that point that he went to New York fir another opinion and then the Spurs seemed to get angry.

eh?

Let me put it to you this way

What is the point of passing a physical then?   Or a team wanting to check a player who just came off an injury before they dole out a big contract to sign them?

Why can't the player and agent just say, "don't worry about it,  our guys got checked it out, its all good"

If a player is injured,  the protocol is to see the team medical staff.  Then to get an assessment and "fix" the issue. So that the player can get back on the court healthy

In this situation it sounds like the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, and wanted to help Leonard rehab/keep track of his progression or road bumps to ultimately have him comeback 100 percent

Instead, sounds like Leonard and his crew (at some point of the assessment) didn't like or was unsure about the Spurs medical staff assessment and went somewhere else and got a different answer.

If this is not undermining the teams medical staff, what is??   The team who is paying you millions of dollars should be in the front of the line to understand what is going on with your injury/health issues.   The Spurs organization at the moment from what it sounds like,  are in the dark with this 2nd opinion.     

Does this sit right with you??
Abso-freaking-lutely. Just because an athlete signs a contract to play for a team, it doesn't force them to only use the team's medical staff. They have every right to use their own medical people too, including trainers, dieticians, and doctors.

The team diagnosed Kawhi and went with a certain therapy. It wasn't working, Kawhi's agent and family asked for the team to get a second opinion. They did and things still weren't right.

So he got a third opinion away from the team and decided to follow that doctor's care. The Spurs medical staff were only left out of the care of Kawhi after taking care of him for possibly as long as a year without things being corrected.

Every person, athlete or not, have an absolute right to seek other opinions when it comes to healthcare if they feel their current medical team isn't helping or possibly has the wrong diagnosis.

Here it looks like the Spurs medical staff may have had the wrong diagnosis. Kawhi may have possibly saved his career by going elsewhere for help. My guess is if he had to do it all over again Isaiah Thomas may not have listened to the Cs doctors, got a 2nd opinion and had surgery a long, long time ago. It may have saved him tens of millions of dollars if he had.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Roy H. on May 02, 2018, 06:09:09 PM
Agreed with nick. Millions of people are forced into making less than ideal medical decisions due to finances.  NBA players are fortunate to be able to consult with the best medical specialists in the world.  Why on Earth wouldn’t they?

This fan base in particular should appreciate that team physicians aren’t always right.  If IT’s “groin strain” in December had been properly diagnosed, or if IT had sought a second opinion, his future might look drastically different.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on May 02, 2018, 06:13:13 PM
Agreed with nick. Millions of people are forced into making less than ideal medical decisions due to finances.  NBA players are fortunate to be able to consult with the best medical specialists in the world.  Why on Earth wouldn’t they?

This fan base in particular should appreciate that team physicians aren’t always right.  If IT’s “groin strain” in December had been properly diagnosed, or if IT had sought a second opinion, his future might look drastically different.

I'm 50/50 on all of these since both have a stake in it.  The team is making a HUGE investment on a product (player) with GUARANTEED money (and cap space they restrict). There has to be a happy medium somewhere along the lines.

Now I don't know what goes into the contracts and what control (or lack of) a team/player has on medical decisions, but the right answer usually is found somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 02, 2018, 06:17:51 PM
This does not sound like a Kyrie situation.

Probably hurt IMO and more power to him for taking control of his own health. IT’s situation is a huge warning about the Brinks truck at stake
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 02, 2018, 06:40:28 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better
Exactly why does he need to get a sign off from the team? So if they say no, the player has to abide by what the team medical staff says, even if they are wrong and could be doing more harm than good? No one, player or regular person should ever have to get a sign off from their employer to seek medical care.

And, the Spurs medical staff had been working on this problem since the end of the 2016-17 season and through the summer. Things weren't getting better or moving forward at all. So Kawhi 2nd opinions were sought. It sounds like the Spurs worked with an outside physician for a while. So for months and months and months, Kawhi did what the Spurs said and nothing was happening. How long is he supposed to continue doing what the team medical staff is telling him what to do if it isn't having a positive effect at all. It was at that point that he went to New York fir another opinion and then the Spurs seemed to get angry.

eh?

Let me put it to you this way

What is the point of passing a physical then?   Or a team wanting to check a player who just came off an injury before they dole out a big contract to sign them?

Why can't the player and agent just say, "don't worry about it,  our guys got checked it out, its all good"

If a player is injured,  the protocol is to see the team medical staff.  Then to get an assessment and "fix" the issue. So that the player can get back on the court healthy

In this situation it sounds like the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, and wanted to help Leonard rehab/keep track of his progression or road bumps to ultimately have him comeback 100 percent

Instead, sounds like Leonard and his crew (at some point of the assessment) didn't like or was unsure about the Spurs medical staff assessment and went somewhere else and got a different answer.

If this is not undermining the teams medical staff, what is??   The team who is paying you millions of dollars should be in the front of the line to understand what is going on with your injury/health issues.   The Spurs organization at the moment from what it sounds like,  are in the dark with this 2nd opinion.     

Does this sit right with you??
Abso-freaking-lutely. Just because an athlete signs a contract to play for a team, it doesn't force them to only use the team's medical staff. They have every right to use their own medical people too, including trainers, dieticians, and doctors.

The team diagnosed Kawhi and went with a certain therapy. It wasn't working, Kawhi's agent and family asked for the team to get a second opinion. They did and things still weren't right.

So he got a third opinion away from the team and decided to follow that doctor's care. The Spurs medical staff were only left out of the care of Kawhi after taking care of him for possibly as long as a year without things being corrected.

Every person, athlete or not, have an absolute right to seek other opinions when it comes to healthcare if they feel their current medical team isn't helping or possibly has the wrong diagnosis.

Here it looks like the Spurs medical staff may have had the wrong diagnosis. Kawhi may have possibly saved his career by going elsewhere for help. My guess is if he had to do it all over again Isaiah Thomas may not have listened to the Cs doctors, got a 2nd opinion and had surgery a long, long time ago. It may have saved him tens of millions of dollars if he had.

you are guessing. Nobody knows for sure

What we do know is that the Spurs are in the dark.  That is not right

Leonard and his crew keeps this up...  Lets see who will be eager to give up assets for him or dole out big money
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: nickagneta on May 02, 2018, 07:18:06 PM
Leonard should listen to how his body feels 1st

then teams medical team. 

If the medical/trainning staff is not helping/improving his condition....then seek outside opinion with sign off from the team

doesnt seem like this is what happened and the Spurs staff didnt get a proper chance to help him heal. Then he just did his own thing 


Imo Leonard is a goner this off season.  Because I bet you, if he was a UFA , he would not be doing this

No team would sign him, if their doctors weren't allow to assess his situation and be able to help get him better
Exactly why does he need to get a sign off from the team? So if they say no, the player has to abide by what the team medical staff says, even if they are wrong and could be doing more harm than good? No one, player or regular person should ever have to get a sign off from their employer to seek medical care.

And, the Spurs medical staff had been working on this problem since the end of the 2016-17 season and through the summer. Things weren't getting better or moving forward at all. So Kawhi 2nd opinions were sought. It sounds like the Spurs worked with an outside physician for a while. So for months and months and months, Kawhi did what the Spurs said and nothing was happening. How long is he supposed to continue doing what the team medical staff is telling him what to do if it isn't having a positive effect at all. It was at that point that he went to New York fir another opinion and then the Spurs seemed to get angry.

eh?

Let me put it to you this way

What is the point of passing a physical then?   Or a team wanting to check a player who just came off an injury before they dole out a big contract to sign them?

Why can't the player and agent just say, "don't worry about it,  our guys got checked it out, its all good"

If a player is injured,  the protocol is to see the team medical staff.  Then to get an assessment and "fix" the issue. So that the player can get back on the court healthy

In this situation it sounds like the Spurs medical staff gave their assessment, and wanted to help Leonard rehab/keep track of his progression or road bumps to ultimately have him comeback 100 percent

Instead, sounds like Leonard and his crew (at some point of the assessment) didn't like or was unsure about the Spurs medical staff assessment and went somewhere else and got a different answer.

If this is not undermining the teams medical staff, what is??   The team who is paying you millions of dollars should be in the front of the line to understand what is going on with your injury/health issues.   The Spurs organization at the moment from what it sounds like,  are in the dark with this 2nd opinion.     

Does this sit right with you??
Abso-freaking-lutely. Just because an athlete signs a contract to play for a team, it doesn't force them to only use the team's medical staff. They have every right to use their own medical people too, including trainers, dieticians, and doctors.

The team diagnosed Kawhi and went with a certain therapy. It wasn't working, Kawhi's agent and family asked for the team to get a second opinion. They did and things still weren't right.

So he got a third opinion away from the team and decided to follow that doctor's care. The Spurs medical staff were only left out of the care of Kawhi after taking care of him for possibly as long as a year without things being corrected.

Every person, athlete or not, have an absolute right to seek other opinions when it comes to healthcare if they feel their current medical team isn't helping or possibly has the wrong diagnosis.

Here it looks like the Spurs medical staff may have had the wrong diagnosis. Kawhi may have possibly saved his career by going elsewhere for help. My guess is if he had to do it all over again Isaiah Thomas may not have listened to the Cs doctors, got a 2nd opinion and had surgery a long, long time ago. It may have saved him tens of millions of dollars if he had.

you are guessing. Nobody knows for sure

What we do know is that the Spurs are in the dark.  That is not right

Leonard and his crew keeps this up...  Lets see who will be eager to give up assets for him or dole out big money
From the article:

Quote
Frankel and Robertson arranged the consultation, according to multiple sources, and the Spurs were informed of the decision and the doctor's recommendations. From this point forward, Glashow and his team have guided the rehabilitation program, sources said. The Spurs have had staffers in New York to observe and assist in Leonard's work, which has primarily taken place at the NBA Players Association headquarters in midtown Manhattan.

The Spurs officials are observing and assisting in Kawhi's treatment. The Spurs are not in the dark. They know what their medical staff diagnosed and I am sure based on the fact they have staff helping in Kawhi's treatment that they know what the non-Spurs medical people have diagnosed. So I think its a pretty well informed guess that Kawhi believes the Spurs diagnosis was wrong and that he is now with doctors that have the right diagnosis.

If Kawhi gets back to 100%, any team will want Kawhi pn their team and will pay to get him and pay to keep him. At 100%, he is that good.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: umpacu on May 02, 2018, 07:37:03 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on May 02, 2018, 08:22:14 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: umpacu on May 02, 2018, 08:34:42 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on May 02, 2018, 08:42:59 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Philly is under the cap.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Eja117 on May 02, 2018, 08:58:10 PM
Agreed with nick. Millions of people are forced into making less than ideal medical decisions due to finances.  NBA players are fortunate to be able to consult with the best medical specialists in the world.  Why on Earth wouldn’t they?

This fan base in particular should appreciate that team physicians aren’t always right.  If IT’s “groin strain” in December had been properly diagnosed, or if IT had sought a second opinion, his future might look drastically different.
This fan base also knows the dangers of players who seek other opinions till they find the one they want.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Sophomore on May 02, 2018, 08:59:03 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Philly is under the cap.

Sure. But Kawhi is under contract next year. It’s not a free agency situation so Philly has to give SA something that’s better than keeping Kawhi or trading him to someone else. If Kawhi is healthy, that Philly package would be pretty light.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 02, 2018, 09:07:00 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Philly is under the cap.

Sure. But Kawhi is under contract next year. It’s not a free agency situation so Philly has to give SA something that’s better than keeping Kawhi or trading him to someone else. If Kawhi is healthy, that Philly package would be pretty light.

ALSO, Philly may be under the cap, but OP there states they could get Kawhi AND George. If you trade for Kawhi but don't match salaries (meaning you take back some extra $$ in Kawhi), I'm not sure they have the max $$$ needed to acquire George, while LAL does. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding. Remember, Embiid's extension kicks in too (so I think PHI can only afford 1 max player and then maybe some smaller signings).

I think Saric + Fultz + Covington could allow that to happen for PHI though, since they combined make around 20M (which is what Kawhi makes next year), although it depends if SAS is down for that package. I think if LAL offers Kuzma + Ingram, or Phoenix jumps in and packages their Top-3 pick this year and another intriguing prospect, it won't be enough.

Anyone know what George's max deal would look like this summer?
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on May 02, 2018, 09:34:49 PM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Philly is under the cap.

Sure. But Kawhi is under contract next year. It’s not a free agency situation so Philly has to give SA something that’s better than keeping Kawhi or trading him to someone else. If Kawhi is healthy, that Philly package would be pretty light.

I'm just saying that under those circumstances, matching salary isn't the issue.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 03, 2018, 11:07:03 AM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Spurs say no

Fultz is not a Pops type of player

Celts or Lakers probably have the best package to offer for him

Ingram + Hart + Kuzma + future 1st

or

Horford + Rozier + Semi + Future 1st
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 03, 2018, 11:08:47 AM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Spurs say no

Fultz is not a Pops type of player

Celts or Lakers probably have the best package to offer for him

Ingram + Hart + Kuzma + future 1st

or

Horford + Rozier + Semi + Future 1st

Why the hell would we trade Horford in this package??

Also, Horford alone makes like 10M MORE than Kawhi next season.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Tr1boy on May 03, 2018, 11:12:06 AM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Spurs say no

Fultz is not a Pops type of player

Celts or Lakers probably have the best package to offer for him

Ingram + Hart + Kuzma + future 1st

or

Horford + Rozier + Semi + Future 1st

Why the hell would we trade Horford in this package??

Also, Horford alone makes like 10M MORE than Kawhi next season.

Not saying Celts will but IF they did

Its called salary match btw.  They can include Gasol etc. to make the trade work

Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: droopdog7 on May 03, 2018, 11:14:17 AM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Spurs say no

Fultz is not a Pops type of player

Celts or Lakers probably have the best package to offer for him

Ingram + Hart + Kuzma + future 1st

or

Horford + Rozier + Semi + Future 1st
The celtic package is absolutely laughable. 
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 03, 2018, 11:26:10 AM
Assuming Kawhi is healthy, and Philly tries to get him and then sign Paul George with their cap space. Should we offer something like Hayward + Sac pick + whatever else is necessary (outside Tatum and Brown) for him? Or maybe Kyrie + Sac pick, and play Rozier as a starter?

Because a lineup of Simmons, George, Kawhi, Embiid + some vet is super scary...

And I love Kyrie, Hayward, Tatum and Brown, so I have no idea what to think.

What is Philadelphia sending out to get back Kawhi and make salaries match? I don’t honk the collection of odds and ends on the Philly roster outside Simmons and Embiid can get that done.

Not sure if it matches salaries but maybe something like Fultz + Covington + Saric + LA pick (probably 10th)?

Spurs say no

Fultz is not a Pops type of player

Celts or Lakers probably have the best package to offer for him

Ingram + Hart + Kuzma + future 1st

or

Horford + Rozier + Semi + Future 1st

Why the hell would we trade Horford in this package??

Also, Horford alone makes like 10M MORE than Kawhi next season.

Not saying Celts will but IF they did

Its called salary match btw.  They can include Gasol etc. to make the trade work

Okay, then who is our starting center? Gasol? LOL.

Boy Horford is really underestimated around here.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Fafnir on May 03, 2018, 12:05:04 PM
This is one of the reasons people around the league chatter that the C's are going to resign Smart to a solid mid level contract. (under the new cap this is 10+ million). The C's need contracts other than max FAs and rookie scale contracts to make trades.

I know Zach Lowe has mentioned it a few times.
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Phantom255x on May 03, 2018, 12:16:27 PM
This is one of the reasons people around the league chatter that the C's are going to resign Smart to a solid mid level contract. (under the new cap this is 10+ million). The C's need contracts other than max FAs and rookie scale contracts to make trades.

I know Zach Lowe has mentioned it a few times.

Yeah that makes sense. Although I think Ainge considers Smart a keeper. He took him at #6 for a reason and I think he loves Smart's toughness and attitude (the kind you need to win a championship - a Draymond like player).
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: Fafnir on May 03, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
This is one of the reasons people around the league chatter that the C's are going to resign Smart to a solid mid level contract. (under the new cap this is 10+ million). The C's need contracts other than max FAs and rookie scale contracts to make trades.

I know Zach Lowe has mentioned it a few times.

Yeah that makes sense. Although I think Ainge considers Smart a keeper. He took him at #6 for a reason and I think he loves Smart's toughness and attitude (the kind you need to win a championship - a Draymond like player).
Agreed.

I don't think Danny will sign Smart to a contract he thinks is a bad overpay. But I do think he will look at it as keeping an asset that's a tradeable piece for another star. Similar to the Bradley/Crowder deals when they were signed. (Smart's deal won't be a "steal" because the cap is not jumping up again)
Title: Re: Kawhi Leonard Moving To Boston Celtics? Dwyane Wade Thinks So
Post by: boscel33 on May 03, 2018, 12:26:59 PM
just keep brown and tatum... irwing hayward brown tatum horford are super solid... we need health not kawhi

I agree.  We have a young Kawhi in Brown.

Jaylen in his second season averaged 14.9/4.9 while Kawhi was 11.9/6.0.  If you read the scouting reports coming out of school, they are almost identical. 

I keep Jaylen and let him grow with the yutes!