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Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: PickNRoll on March 30, 2018, 01:51:10 PM

Title: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: PickNRoll on March 30, 2018, 01:51:10 PM
I haven't watched a ton of college ball this year and we're not even sure who's declaring, but I'm curious what people see in this class.  Here's my impression based on what little I've seen.

1. Marvin Bagley - I wasn't high on him, but he just kept getting better.  His motor and his nose for the ball is impressive.  Not the best touch around the hoop or at the FT line, but a powerful finisher with defensive upside.

2. Mo Bamba - reminds me of Bill Russell the way he's relaxed, doesn't waste motion or energy, stays down on pump fakes, and blocks shots in bounds.  Superb instincts. He looks like the type of raw player that maybe hasn't played ball long, but I guess he grew up in PA, not sure his bg.  Has a chance to be a generational defensive talent with that 7'9" wingspan, and better instincts than Gobert. 

3. DeAndre Ayton - basically an Amare Stoudemire clone.  Not as quick, but nice touch and 7 footers this athletic don't grow on trees.  Not my cup of tea as he doesn't impact games as much as you'd like on D and his court presence didn't impress.

4. Mikal Bridges - older than the others, but this kid has seasoned well and he's NBA-ready.  Strong, athletic finisher.  Smooth stroke, plays hard, excellent defender, great size, length and strength.  Reminds me of Pierce.

5. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - Love this kid's game.  Excellent feel, best decision-maker I've seen.  Able to take over games and score when necessary, gets teammates involved, just extremely polished and knows how to win.  Pretty nice stroke, good finisher, good athlete, gonna be a good pro.

No particular order
Porter, Jr.: not impressed.  Low bball IQ, poor lateral speed, doesn't excel at anything
Trae Young: too small, too slow
Doncic: role player. Mike Miller with a bit of Kukoc craftiness
Jaren Jackson:solid, strong, decent shot blocker. PJ Brown
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: JBcat on March 30, 2018, 02:34:35 PM
That’s the first I’ve heard Ayton compared to Stoudemire.  Amare was more of a PF though, and Ayton seems more of a center.  I’ve seen Patrick Ewing comparisons.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: PickNRoll on March 30, 2018, 03:07:07 PM
That’s the first I’ve heard Ayton compared to Stoudemire.  Amare was more of a PF though, and Ayton seems more of a center.  I’ve seen Patrick Ewing comparisons.
I don't see Ewing.  Ewing was a force on both sides of the ball.  High IQ.  Refined back-to-the-basket game.  Great passer out of the post.  Good touch around the hoop. Controlled the paint.  They're physically similar, but Ewing played bigger.  Ayton is somewhere in between, but def doesn't impact games like Ewing.  Ayton is less a traditional big.  Quicker, but not nearly as powerful.  Game has changed a lot tho.  Yeah, I'm old enough to have watched Ewing at Gtown.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Eddie20 on March 30, 2018, 05:34:30 PM
You're really overrating Bamba, while underrating others.

Ayton is a lot bigger and longer than Amare. 7'1" vs 6'10" in height, 4 inches longer in wingspan, and about 20 lbs bigger. The comparison that I see is Robinson. As Ayton uses his combination of speed and strength to dominate opponents. He's not the defender Robinson was, but he looks like he's going to be a better passer and he has range out to 3.

PJ Brown is the basement, not even the floor, on Jackson's potential. The kid shot 39.6% from deep and is a lot better than a "decent shot blocker". He averaged 3 bpg in just 21.8 MPG, which is better per minute than Bamba.

The Porter Jr. observations isn't really fair as he missed about 5 months.

As for Luka, "Mike Miller with a bit of Kukoc craftiness" sounds like HOF Ginobili more than it does a "role player".


Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Bucketgetter on March 30, 2018, 06:56:49 PM
The Jaren Jackson comparison was funny because you said 3 good things about him 1st, that he was "solid, strong, decent shot blocker". But then you roasted him with the PJ Brown comp.

I like Jackson a lot. I think he will be like Serge Ibaka, and be a great role player. But I don't think he has much star potential, so I have a hard time seeing him go super high. But he can still be a very versatile and valuable asset for a team.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: nickagneta on March 30, 2018, 07:27:46 PM
You're completely missing the boat on Doncic. I got him and Bagley as the two best players in this draft.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: gouki88 on March 30, 2018, 08:15:05 PM
Your Doncic, Jackson and Bamba evaluations are all whack.
Jackson is a better rim protector AND shooter than Bamba, and will be still 18 come draft day. If he declares he'll be 19 for his entire rookie season, that's crazy.

Bamba is a really good ring protector and athlete, but I'm not sure how good his offence can get.

And finally with Doncic, what you say about him makes me question whether you've actually watched him. 15/5/4.5 in 24.6MPG is insane for a 19 year old to be averaging in Europe. He's the best European prospect ever. Mike Miller with Kucoc craftiness is straight up insulting lol
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: PickNRoll on April 01, 2018, 02:37:40 PM
The Jaren Jackson comparison was funny because you said 3 good things about him 1st, that he was "solid, strong, decent shot blocker". But then you roasted him with the PJ Brown comp.

I like Jackson a lot. I think he will be like Serge Ibaka, and be a great role player. But I don't think he has much star potential, so I have a hard time seeing him go super high. But he can still be a very versatile and valuable asset for a team.
That's what I meant re: Jackson, solid, but not spectacular.  PJ played 15 years in the league and was a starter from day 1.  There's always a rush to anoint every lotto pick as some former All-star.  That's not how it works.  PJ Brown is a compliment.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: PickNRoll on April 01, 2018, 02:52:22 PM
Your Doncic, Jackson and Bamba evaluations are all whack.
Jackson is a better rim protector AND shooter than Bamba, and will be still 18 come draft day. If he declares he'll be 19 for his entire rookie season, that's crazy.

Bamba is a really good ring protector and athlete, but I'm not sure how good his offence can get.

And finally with Doncic, what you say about him makes me question whether you've actually watched him. 15/5/4.5 in 24.6MPG is insane for a 19 year old to be averaging in Europe. He's the best European prospect ever. Mike Miller with Kucoc craftiness is straight up insulting lol
Doncic is the one I've watched the most.  Middling athlete, good court vision, good shooter.  Comparing him to a RoY, 6th man of the year, and 3x champ is insulting?  OK.  Last year, Bender was the best euro prospect in years.  ::)  Doncic will be a solid role player.

I haven't seen Jackson much.  I like Bamba because you can't teach 7'9" wingspan, see Gobert.  I think Bamba has even more upside.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: PickNRoll on April 01, 2018, 03:23:14 PM
You're completely missing the boat on Doncic. I got him and Bagley as the two best players in this draft.
I don't hate Doncic, I just don't think his game translates well.   I don't see him as a strong pnr ball handler in the league.  He's a good shooter, but I question whether he can get his own shot.

All that said, he's a very good passer, high-energy player, crafty with the ball.  I see him as an eventual 15/5/5 type of guy... really solid.  Just not the franchise player people are claiming.  There's a long list of skilled wings who tore up D1 but couldn't adjust to NBA athletes.  If you see him being a star, I have to ask how?  e.g He's less athletic than Hayward, not as strong as Pierce, not as quick as Melo, can't get his own like Tatum, doesn't defend like Butler or Kawhi, can't shoot like Durant, and so on.  His passing is his only standout skill, and that puts a ceiling on him.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: nickagneta on April 01, 2018, 05:28:22 PM
You're completely missing the boat on Doncic. I got him and Bagley as the two best players in this draft.
I don't hate Doncic, I just don't think his game translates well.   I don't see him as a strong pnr ball handler in the league.  He's a good shooter, but I question whether he can get his own shot.

All that said, he's a very good passer, high-energy player, crafty with the ball.  I see him as an eventual 15/5/5 type of guy... really solid.  Just not the franchise player people are claiming.  There's a long list of skilled wings who tore up D1 but couldn't adjust to NBA athletes.  If you see him being a star, I have to ask how?  e.g He's less athletic than Hayward, not as strong as Pierce, not as quick as Melo, can't get his own like Tatum, doesn't defend like Butler or Kawhi, can't shoot like Durant, and so on.  His passing is his only standout skill, and that puts a ceiling on him.
Wow..an 18 year old who is the best player in the 2nd most competitve league in the world doesn't have the infividual skills of some of the all-time greats and best players in the league. You know who also fit that description when they entered the league, Steve Nash, John Stockton and Steph Curry.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Sophomore on April 01, 2018, 06:01:36 PM
The Jaren Jackson comparison was funny because you said 3 good things about him 1st, that he was "solid, strong, decent shot blocker". But then you roasted him with the PJ Brown comp.

I like Jackson a lot. I think he will be like Serge Ibaka, and be a great role player. But I don't think he has much star potential, so I have a hard time seeing him go super high. But he can still be a very versatile and valuable asset for a team.
That's what I meant re: Jackson, solid, but not spectacular.  PJ played 15 years in the league and was a starter from day 1.  There's always a rush to anoint every lotto pick as some former All-star.  That's not how it works.  PJ Brown is a compliment.

PJ was 24 his first year in the league, after being 29th pick in the second round. Nobody saw a high ceiling player. He averaged 9 points and eight rebounds for his career, on low efficiency. His second year in the league, he scored 8pg and grabbed 6rpg.  If somebody spends a high lottery pick for that production, I guarantee they’ll be disappointed.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: green_bballers13 on April 01, 2018, 06:03:21 PM
You're completely missing the boat on Doncic. I got him and Bagley as the two best players in this draft.
I don't hate Doncic, I just don't think his game translates well.   I don't see him as a strong pnr ball handler in the league.  He's a good shooter, but I question whether he can get his own shot.

All that said, he's a very good passer, high-energy player, crafty with the ball.  I see him as an eventual 15/5/5 type of guy... really solid.  Just not the franchise player people are claiming.  There's a long list of skilled wings who tore up D1 but couldn't adjust to NBA athletes.  If you see him being a star, I have to ask how?  e.g He's less athletic than Hayward, not as strong as Pierce, not as quick as Melo, can't get his own like Tatum, doesn't defend like Butler or Kawhi, can't shoot like Durant, and so on.  His passing is his only standout skill, and that puts a ceiling on him.

You compared Doncic to Mike Miller. I agree w Nick. You're off on that comp. Those players really only have one thing in common.

Comparisons are tough, especially when looking at unique players. I don't think he has a good comp in the current NBA. I've seen him on video and think he'll be a good player.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Emmette Bryant on April 08, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23065643/nba-draft-scouting-luka-doncic-potential-young-unicorn-prospect

Anybody able to tell who the unicorn is?
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: tazzmaniac on April 08, 2018, 12:15:47 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/23065643/nba-draft-scouting-luka-doncic-potential-young-unicorn-prospect

Anybody able to tell who the unicorn is?
Don't have ESPN Insider access.  Can you give a quick summary? 
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Emmette Bryant on April 08, 2018, 01:51:50 PM
No I don't have access either. :(
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: mef730 on April 14, 2018, 07:43:27 PM
Having trouble copying the embedded YouTube link, but here's the potential unicorn, at least according to ESPN...


Potential unicorn developing in France
Victor Wembanyama | 6-10, 7-7 wingspan | PF/C

play
1:05
Scouting Victor WembanyamaThe French prospect is becoming one of Europe's most interesting long-term prospects.
The 2004-born French big man is gaining steam as one of the top long-term prospects in all of Europe. Most American prospects don't surface in scouting circles until age 15 or 16, but with the number of clubs and agents in Europe, the top players are generally identified much earlier with many turning pro as teenagers. Competing with his home club of Nanterre in the under-15 Lions Cup, Wembanyama showed his incredible physical upside and talent level for his age.

Wembanyama has massive hands, size 19.5 shoes, toothpick thighs and an incredible reach. For reference, Rudy Gobert was 6 inches shorter and playing on the wing when he was Wembanyama's age. While there have been plenty of young prospects with freakish measurements, it's Wembanyama skill level combined with his unique physical profile that makes him so intriguing. He shoots an easy 3-ball with soft touch, steps into midrange jumpers or floaters off the dribble, has a fairly advanced handle for his size and can pass with either hand, playing unselfishly. Despite his lack of lower-body strength, he's coordinated and competitive, protecting the rim impressively with sharp timing when fully engaged. Wembanyama's long-term success will depend on staying healthy and maintaining a strong physical regimen, as he's nowhere near his peak athletically. His development can shoot in a variety of directions, as he's skilled enough to trend toward a stretch big, long enough to become a lob-catcher/shot-blocker and talented enough with the ball to become a point-center type.

Highly touted, young prospects fail to live up to lofty expectations every year, but Wembanyama's background and support system makes us more comfortable even discussing him as a prospect at this age. His mother was described as the "Kendrick Perkins of women's basketball in France" for her tough mentality as a 6-3 big. Wembanyama's father was an accomplished long jumper, and his sister a champion basketball player on France's under-16 national team. His family is said to have a great grasp of the importance of developing him slowly.

Wembanyama played with Barcelona on loan at the 2018 Minicopa in Spain but long-term will stay with Nanterre. Next season he'll play in the France under-18 league while practicing with the under-21 team.

Mike
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: mr. dee on April 14, 2018, 08:26:13 PM
The Jaren Jackson comparison was funny because you said 3 good things about him 1st, that he was "solid, strong, decent shot blocker". But then you roasted him with the PJ Brown comp.

I like Jackson a lot. I think he will be like Serge Ibaka, and be a great role player. But I don't think he has much star potential, so I have a hard time seeing him go super high. But he can still be a very versatile and valuable asset for a team.
That's what I meant re: Jackson, solid, but not spectacular.  PJ played 15 years in the league and was a starter from day 1.  There's always a rush to anoint every lotto pick as some former All-star.  That's not how it works.  PJ Brown is a compliment.

PJ was 24 his first year in the league, after being 29th pick in the second round. Nobody saw a high ceiling player. He averaged 9 points and eight rebounds for his career, on low efficiency. His second year in the league, he scored 8pg and grabbed 6rpg.  If somebody spends a high lottery pick for that production, I guarantee they’ll be disappointed.

PJ in his prime was a great defender and perennial all-defensive team. Think of him as Ibaka type player. That's still pretty good player regardless of the spot he was picked.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on April 14, 2018, 08:31:53 PM
For this draft class the top prizes are Ayton, Bamba, Young, and a sleeper in Gary Trent Jr.  I'm not sold on Bagley as a pro.  I think of all the Dukies Trent Jr. has the game that best translates to the NBA.  Ayton can be a franchise cornerstone.  And Bamba COULD become the next Dikembe. 
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Birdman on April 14, 2018, 09:02:31 PM
Blah
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: hwangjini_1 on April 14, 2018, 11:16:45 PM
You're completely missing the boat on Doncic. I got him and Bagley as the two best players in this draft.
right on about doncic. he is going to be a very good nba player. i wish the celtics could get hold of him.
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: hwangjini_1 on April 14, 2018, 11:19:17 PM
Having trouble copying the embedded YouTube link, but here's the potential unicorn, at least according to ESPN...


Potential unicorn developing in France
Victor Wembanyama | 6-10, 7-7 wingspan | PF/C

play
1:05
Scouting Victor WembanyamaThe French prospect is becoming one of Europe's most interesting long-term prospects.
The 2004-born French big man is gaining steam as one of the top long-term prospects in all of Europe. Most American prospects don't surface in scouting circles until age 15 or 16, but with the number of clubs and agents in Europe, the top players are generally identified much earlier with many turning pro as teenagers. Competing with his home club of Nanterre in the under-15 Lions Cup, Wembanyama showed his incredible physical upside and talent level for his age.

Wembanyama has massive hands, size 19.5 shoes, toothpick thighs and an incredible reach. For reference, Rudy Gobert was 6 inches shorter and playing on the wing when he was Wembanyama's age. While there have been plenty of young prospects with freakish measurements, it's Wembanyama skill level combined with his unique physical profile that makes him so intriguing. He shoots an easy 3-ball with soft touch, steps into midrange jumpers or floaters off the dribble, has a fairly advanced handle for his size and can pass with either hand, playing unselfishly. Despite his lack of lower-body strength, he's coordinated and competitive, protecting the rim impressively with sharp timing when fully engaged. Wembanyama's long-term success will depend on staying healthy and maintaining a strong physical regimen, as he's nowhere near his peak athletically. His development can shoot in a variety of directions, as he's skilled enough to trend toward a stretch big, long enough to become a lob-catcher/shot-blocker and talented enough with the ball to become a point-center type.

Highly touted, young prospects fail to live up to lofty expectations every year, but Wembanyama's background and support system makes us more comfortable even discussing him as a prospect at this age. His mother was described as the "Kendrick Perkins of women's basketball in France" for her tough mentality as a 6-3 big. Wembanyama's father was an accomplished long jumper, and his sister a champion basketball player on France's under-16 national team. His family is said to have a great grasp of the importance of developing him slowly.

Wembanyama played with Barcelona on loan at the 2018 Minicopa in Spain but long-term will stay with Nanterre. Next season he'll play in the France under-18 league while practicing with the under-21 team.

Mike

here are a couple of brief videos on wembanyama...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wembanyama
Title: Re: First Impressions of 2018 draft class
Post by: Emmette Bryant on April 15, 2018, 12:59:26 AM
Having trouble copying the embedded YouTube link, but here's the potential unicorn, at least according to ESPN...


Potential unicorn developing in France
Victor Wembanyama | 6-10, 7-7 wingspan | PF/C

play
1:05
Scouting Victor WembanyamaThe French prospect is becoming one of Europe's most interesting long-term prospects.
The 2004-born French big man is gaining steam as one of the top long-term prospects in all of Europe. Most American prospects don't surface in scouting circles until age 15 or 16, but with the number of clubs and agents in Europe, the top players are generally identified much earlier with many turning pro as teenagers. Competing with his home club of Nanterre in the under-15 Lions Cup, Wembanyama showed his incredible physical upside and talent level for his age.

Wembanyama has massive hands, size 19.5 shoes, toothpick thighs and an incredible reach. For reference, Rudy Gobert was 6 inches shorter and playing on the wing when he was Wembanyama's age. While there have been plenty of young prospects with freakish measurements, it's Wembanyama skill level combined with his unique physical profile that makes him so intriguing. He shoots an easy 3-ball with soft touch, steps into midrange jumpers or floaters off the dribble, has a fairly advanced handle for his size and can pass with either hand, playing unselfishly. Despite his lack of lower-body strength, he's coordinated and competitive, protecting the rim impressively with sharp timing when fully engaged. Wembanyama's long-term success will depend on staying healthy and maintaining a strong physical regimen, as he's nowhere near his peak athletically. His development can shoot in a variety of directions, as he's skilled enough to trend toward a stretch big, long enough to become a lob-catcher/shot-blocker and talented enough with the ball to become a point-center type.

Highly touted, young prospects fail to live up to lofty expectations every year, but Wembanyama's background and support system makes us more comfortable even discussing him as a prospect at this age. His mother was described as the "Kendrick Perkins of women's basketball in France" for her tough mentality as a 6-3 big. Wembanyama's father was an accomplished long jumper, and his sister a champion basketball player on France's under-16 national team. His family is said to have a great grasp of the importance of developing him slowly.

Wembanyama played with Barcelona on loan at the 2018 Minicopa in Spain but long-term will stay with Nanterre. Next season he'll play in the France under-18 league while practicing with the under-21 team.

Mike

here are a couple of brief videos on wembanyama...

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Wembanyama

TP thanks Mike