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Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: CelticsElite on March 22, 2018, 02:05:01 AM

Title: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: CelticsElite on March 22, 2018, 02:05:01 AM
https://instagram.com/p/BgmvPqvFL-5/
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: SparzWizard on March 22, 2018, 02:46:50 AM
Impressive stats, against the Knicks at home that is.

But good to see him flourishing well in another team, regardless.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 05:10:17 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes. 
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Androslav on March 22, 2018, 05:45:16 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Now that's a proper hot take.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ederson on March 22, 2018, 06:33:12 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Roy H. on March 22, 2018, 07:36:15 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: gouki88 on March 22, 2018, 07:42:45 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
Coincides with an almost identical bump in turnovers, but his usage isn't anything amazing.

Don't think there's anything to see here with this game though. Would be like if people went about wanting to trade for Dwight after his 30/30 game
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: RodyTur10 on March 22, 2018, 07:47:04 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.


Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: tazzmaniac on March 22, 2018, 08:01:31 AM
Could and should have been Giannis.  Enough said about Olynyk.   
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ederson on March 22, 2018, 08:02:55 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2489663/kelly-olynyk

i don't see anything consistent here

I like the guy too  but discovering the great star we missed just because he scored 30p once (while he averages 11) and blaming everyone for letting him go is beyong funny

and he is getting 12m per year  !!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: gouki88 on March 22, 2018, 08:47:27 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.
So is that why he is 9th in minutes per game and rarely starts?
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: celts10 on March 22, 2018, 09:40:16 AM
Could and should have been Giannis.  Enough said about Olynyk.

But Ainge had full confidence in Jeff Green at the time...
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: timpiker on March 22, 2018, 09:48:55 AM
I always liked him and had high hopes - but when he left and signed for more than I thought the C's should pay - I have no non-buyers remorse.  More power to him.  All in all - I was disappointed with him as a C.  He had his chance here and failed, in my eyes.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Diggles on March 22, 2018, 09:54:15 AM
Players are supposed to improve, especially when they get paid.   So saying Brad didn’t know how to use him is laughable.    We supposed to give him all Al touches.  The guys stats are similar to what they were last year.   Come on people.   KO is skilled, but was to rich for us.  End of story.  Wish the guys does well and can’t wait to beat hem in the first round.   
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: More Banners on March 22, 2018, 09:55:37 AM
KO always seemed like a tease. It's almost like he needs to be told precisely when to be aggressive, like, it isn't in his nature to dominate a game, even if he has the skills and opportunities.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Surferdad on March 22, 2018, 10:12:17 AM
Players are supposed to improve, especially when they get paid.   So saying Brad didn’t know how to use him is laughable.    We supposed to give him all Al touches.  The guys stats are similar to what they were last year.   Come on people.   KO is skilled, but was to rich for us.  End of story.  Wish the guys does well and can’t wait to beat hem in the first round.
TP, exactly my thoughts too.  Glad to see the guy improve as an NBA pro.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 04:06:31 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 04:16:43 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.



Spoelstra constantly raves about and shows complete confidence and trust in him.  Brad did the exact opposite and had him constantly looking over his shoulder. 
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 04:24:27 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.
So is that why he is 9th in minutes per game and rarely starts?
He has had to share court time with a player that Miami has a $100 million invested in and a rookie Adebayo that looks very promising to also develop.  Whiteside has sat a lot of 4th qtrs. as Olynyk closes games in front of him.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 22, 2018, 04:34:19 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

He is and it's blaspheme to say he isn't!
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 22, 2018, 04:36:29 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
It was three freaking very good games, dude. He shot excellent in those three games. Have him shoot his average and his splits would be virtually identical to any other month he has had this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/splits/2018

Here's his game logs for the year. He hasn't been playing lights out with much better production for weeks upon months. He's had three freaking good games.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is the same player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 04:38:08 PM
Could and should have been Giannis.  Enough said about Olynyk.   
This is garbage.  There was a poll conducted on another popular forum in the week leading up to the draft.  There were 57 respondents as I remember and exactly 3 of them wanted Giannis.  Those are guys that wanted to swing for the fences with that pick, like 3 also wanted Gobert and 4 K.O..  If the general population of these forums had made the selection we would have one Shabazz Muhammed as 29 of those 57 wanted him.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 22, 2018, 04:47:49 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
It was three freaking very good games, dude. He shot excellent in those three games Have him shoot his average and his splits would be virtually identical to any other month he has had this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/splits/2018

Here's his game logs for the year. He hasn't been playing lights out with much better production for weeks upin months. He's had three freaking good games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

 That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is thesame player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.
Did you even read what I wrote?  They are putting the ball in his hands and his production as well as the teams is going through the roof because of it.  This is not something Brad ever did except for the last 3 games of his rookie year where they stripped the roster and gave him the reigns.  The next game they have is against OKC tomorrow, a much tougher test and it will be interesting to see if it continues.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Eddie20 on March 22, 2018, 05:06:20 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
It was three freaking very good games, dude. He shot excellent in those three games Have him shoot his average and his splits would be virtually identical to any other month he has had this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/splits/2018

Here's his game logs for the year. He hasn't been playing lights out with much better production for weeks upin months. He's had three freaking good games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

 That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is thesame player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.
Did you even read what I wrote?  They are putting the ball in his hands and his production as well as the teams is going through the roof because of it.  This is not something Brad ever did except for the last 3 games of his rookie year where they stripped the roster and gave him the reigns.  The next game they have is against OKC tomorrow, a much tougher test and it will be interesting to see if it continues.

I agree with you. In addition, he's actually finishing games, as opposed to his time with the C's, which would usually close with Crowder-Smart-Horford-Thomas-Bradley.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 22, 2018, 06:44:54 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
It was three freaking very good games, dude. He shot excellent in those three games Have him shoot his average and his splits would be virtually identical to any other month he has had this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/splits/2018

Here's his game logs for the year. He hasn't been playing lights out with much better production for weeks upin months. He's had three freaking good games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

 That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is thesame player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.
Did you even read what I wrote?  They are putting the ball in his hands and his production as well as the teams is going through the roof because of it.  This is not something Brad ever did except for the last 3 games of his rookie year where they stripped the roster and gave him the reigns.  The next game they have is against OKC tomorrow, a much tougher test and it will be interesting to see if it continues.
Did you not read what I wrote? Its three good games otherwise his stats are no different. 3 GAMES. The stats I showed you prove his numbers aren't on some huge uprise through the roof. Its just 3 games. Ignore the other stats all you want and concentrate on just his offensive rating, which is very much predicated on team performance than individual, but the facts don't change. He has basically the same stats he's had any other time in his career but his last 3 games is making his March numbers look slightly better. Make them average games and his stats are no different than they ever have been.

Also, those last three games were against those defensive juggernaughts the Knicks, Lakers and Nuggets.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: IDreamCeltics on March 22, 2018, 06:52:36 PM
"Olynyk has been, and always will be, better than Giannis Antetokounmpo." ~ Danny Ainge
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: 2short on March 22, 2018, 07:38:47 PM
Liked KO when he was with team and always felt when he was on he was a tough guard for another team and could alter a teams defense.  Still check (lots) of former C's box scores and Kelly is doing a nice job in Miami.  We let him walk to sign Gordon as I remember it AND he signed for a good hunk of a contract. 
If Kelly was here now?  Our rotation of bigs:
Baynes-defensive stopper, banger, pick and pop guy
Horford-Mr do everything
Morris-good all around pf
Tatum-rookie love
Monroe-low post offensive force, good passer

So not taking into account injuries where does KO fit?
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: mainevent on March 22, 2018, 09:47:08 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/2489663/kelly-olynyk

i don't see anything consistent here

I like the guy too  but discovering the great star we missed just because he scored 30p once (while he averages 11) and blaming everyone for letting him go is beyong funny

and he is getting 12m per year  !!!!!!!!!!!!

This - TP...beyond funny is exactly right. Don't forget he had a few standout games with us as well, but in the end how many years will it take for him to be consistent? He's in year 5 already!
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 23, 2018, 06:46:37 AM
Quote
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is the same player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.

Same player on a hot streak, good Kelly and bad Kelly the same he was here.   He is all over the place in terms on good games and bad games. 

It's absurd to act like he is the one that got away with his 11 ppg
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ederson on March 23, 2018, 06:59:13 AM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

Yeah, KO is putting up numbers very similar to what he did here. The only area of significant improvement is his assists.
It has very little to do with K.O.'s year over year numbers being similar.  He was brought into a new system and Spoelstra had to figure out how to use him best.  Trying to find minutes when they also have Whiteside on the roster as well as developing Adebayo is a problem because  Olynyk's best usage has always been at center.  With Whiteside sidelined for the last 5 or 6 games Spoelstra began using K.O. more and more as a playmaker culminating in the last 2 games where he basically handed him the keys to the bus and ran seemingly every possession off of and through K.O. to tremendous success. 

His personal box score statistics are rising greatly because the ball has been put in his hands more than anyone else on the team save for Dragic.  In the last 2 games K.O. has 163 total touches and so does Dragic, no one else is even close.  In Boston last year he averaged 42.8 touches per game, those touches were of inferior quality to what he is receiving in Miami many of which were to do no more than initiate the offense. 

I don't think there is any way they are going to deviate from this offensive explosion as the shot quality he is creating has to be off the charts good.  The offensive rating with K.O. on the floor has been climbing and climbing all year and now sits at 110.8 which for comparison sake would rank 5th in the league if it were Miami's offensive rating on the year.  Without him on the floor the offensive rating sits at what would rank as the league's worst offense 100.1 behind Phoenix at 100.9.  The net rating goes from a -3.8 without him to a +5.4 with him.  The dude is quickly becoming a [dang] cult hero in Miami just read their forums.
It was three freaking very good games, dude. He shot excellent in those three games Have him shoot his average and his splits would be virtually identical to any other month he has had this year.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/splits/2018

Here's his game logs for the year. He hasn't been playing lights out with much better production for weeks upin months. He's had three freaking good games

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/olynyke01/gamelog/2018

 That's it. A few good games in a row. Otherwise, he is thesame player he was here for 4 years and even then, I am sure KO had great weeks above his usual stat production here as well. KO is the same player he has been since basically his rookie year.
Did you even read what I wrote?  They are putting the ball in his hands and his production as well as the teams is going through the roof because of it.  This is not something Brad ever did except for the last 3 games of his rookie year where they stripped the roster and gave him the reigns.  The next game they have is against OKC tomorrow, a much tougher test and it will be interesting to see if it continues.

I am obviously stupid so i would like you to explain this to me in more details

22/3 22p 10ass obviously a great game i guess the team did put the ball in his hands
20/3 30p 6 ass same thing. Very good game indeed. btw it was a 2OT game!
17/3 17p(7/14) 0ass not as impresive but still good
15/3 13p(4/13) 5ass the usual KO
13/3 9p 7ass
11/3 13p 2ass
09/3 10p 2 ass
07/3 3p 5 ass
06/3 15p 8 ass
04/3 17p 4ass

in 10 games during this so called hot streak he has 14ppg  (varying between 3 and 30 points) 
and 5 apg which is pretty good. He played 26mpg (including the 41m double overtime) just 3mins o ver his season average.   

His season avg 11.4p 2.7as 23m
last season in Boston 9p 2as 20m

so
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O
beacuse Spoelstra uses him 3 mins more and KO scores 2.5 points more and dishes 2 assists more????

ooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 23, 2018, 08:04:46 AM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ederson on March 23, 2018, 08:26:04 AM
Don't blame the Messenger ... I am just quoting the oracle. KO is the fact same player he was in Boston
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: footey on March 23, 2018, 10:24:29 AM
Zach Lowe said Heat much better when Kelly on the floor, and that he should be considered 3rd best 6th man in league after Lou Williams and Eric Gordon.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 23, 2018, 10:43:21 AM
Too soft

will always be.


Meh .
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: footey on March 23, 2018, 12:22:53 PM
Too soft

will always be.


Meh .

Soft doesn’t beat Wiz in game 7.

Meh back.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 23, 2018, 04:58:30 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: tazzmaniac on March 24, 2018, 09:47:54 AM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time. 
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on March 24, 2018, 10:18:23 AM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time.

I guess the way I look at it is that the offense is on an arc improving throughout the season.

For example, if a season were 10 games, and they scored 95, 95, 97, 97, and 98 in pre-all-star games, their rating would be 96.4. If they continued that same trend offensively and scored 98, 98, 100, 100, and 102, their rating post-all star would be 99.6.

You could say, "There is not way they improved that much just because of the all-star break," but if they are improving their offense throughout the year, it's not so much the all-star break that make them improve, but the gradual growth throughout the year.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 01:21:57 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: trickybilly on March 24, 2018, 01:33:37 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 02:19:23 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and it makes sense that Hassan is the one to give.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: RodyTur10 on March 24, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and Hassan makes sense.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.

Phoenix would be a good destination. They could use a good rim protector to improve their defense,
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 02:52:27 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and Hassan makes sense.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.

Phoenix would be a good destination. They could use a good rim protector to improve their defense,

Interesting. Maybe that would free Jared Dudley from NBA Purgatory.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 03:01:23 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and it makes sense that Hassan is the one to give.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.
Why does it make sense that Whiteside is the one to give? He is the team's 3rd leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading shot blocker and best defensive player. He has the team's lowest defensive rating by far. Of the rotation players, he has the highest differential between Ortg and Drtg. He has by far the most WS/48 on the team. By far the best PER on the team. By far the highest Simple Rating on 82games.com.

Teams need defense and rebounding too. Miami needs what Whiteside provides.

The Heat are in a bad shape financially because of contracts like those given to Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Not sure any of those guys are worth over the MLE but they will be making close to $57 million between them next year. That's where things need to be addressed.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 03:21:49 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

Olynyk was never really trusted by Stevens. And he was mostly out of rhythm due to injuries. Now he has the opportunity to shine in a system that is more team orientated than the Celtics were last year. He always had it in him, but now he has confidence and more experience and that translates to more consistent performances. He truly is one of the best players on a playoff team.

I'm happy for him. It's a shame we couldn't find a way to keep him. He is such a likeable guy and his game is a joy to watch. But I'd rather not face him and the Heat in the first round. They are playing really well. They could overtake the Pacers in the standings though and I prefer that match up right now.
So is that why he is 9th in minutes per game and rarely starts?

Point taken about the minutes, though in fact no one on the team plays a lot; and Kelly is averaging a career-high in minutes at 23.7 - that would be sixth man minutes on the Warriors or fourth on the Raptors.

“Rarely starts”? He has 22 so far this year, so I can’t agree with that claim.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: tazzmaniac on March 24, 2018, 04:31:45 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time.

I guess the way I look at it is that the offense is on an arc improving throughout the season.

For example, if a season were 10 games, and they scored 95, 95, 97, 97, and 98 in pre-all-star games, their rating would be 96.4. If they continued that same trend offensively and scored 98, 98, 100, 100, and 102, their rating post-all star would be 99.6.

You could say, "There is not way they improved that much just because of the all-star break," but if they are improving their offense throughout the year, it's not so much the all-star break that make them improve, but the gradual growth throughout the year.
Huh?  I quote actual stats and you make up numbers.  The Heats' offensive ratings per month are: 
           
Oct     103.0           
Nov      99.8       
Dec     106.6
Jan      102.1
Feb     105.8
Mar     112.0

There's no improvement arc.  There's a huge jump in March when the bad teams really started tanking. 
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Ogaju on March 24, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
How soon y'all forget all those shots Olynyk passed up as a Celtic.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 05:06:51 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.

Well played, sir.

Good to see you back here. Not many have both your feel for the game and at the same time a grasp of meaningful stats. And I really enjoy your provocations, like this one.

If I were the Heat, I’d trade Whiteside. Their best lineups have Olynyk with either Adebayo or James Johnson. They’ve probably got as much ball- and man-movement per possession as any team in the league, and Whiteside is a poor fit for that, while Olynyk, Johnson, (and it looks like) Adebayo, are beautifully suited to it.

Not to mention his salary - 22 million this year.  Something has to give if they’re going to take the next step.

Miami are not trading Whiteside. Unless there are personal problems, that is just not happening

He is fairly reasonable at 22mill, given what he brings

I made two points about Whiteside: 1) that their overall effectiveness is (much) higher when his less-well-paid teammates are on the floor; and 2) that he doesn’t fit the way they play offense, with their high-velocity movement and everyone touching the ball. You haven’t really answered those points.

I made the further point that they are stuck in a salary-cap bind, and if they’re going to take the next step they’ll have to move some contracts.

So something has to give, and it makes sense that Hassan is the one to give.

You’re right to point to his assets; he’s an amazing rebounder on both boards, and an outstanding shotblocker.  Maybe he’d have a more positive impact on his team’s success if his coach re-designed the offense and the defense to accommodate his weaknesses. But in fact Spoelstra has made the offense, at least, less well suited to Whiteside’s game this season (and, not incidentally, better suited to Olynyk’s).

Most problematic, he’s only gotten the seventh-most minutes, per game, on the team, even as he’s being paid like a star.

Why does it make sense that Whiteside is the one to give? He is the team's 3rd leading scorer, leading rebounder, leading shot blocker and best defensive player. He has the team's lowest defensive rating by far. Of the rotation players, he has the highest differential between Ortg and Drtg. He has by far the most WS/48 on the team. By far the best PER on the team. By far the highest Simple Rating on 82games.com.

You’re pointing to some undeniable talents. I’d as soon throw out Ortg and Drtg, since they’re so corrupted by the productivity of other players on the floor - but you make a good case for his value.

I have two responses: 1) Of course he has value - that is why he can be traded, despite his salary. As I pointed out above, he’s only getting the seventh-most minutes on his team. Despite the eye-popping numbers, his coach still won’t give him consistent starter-level minutes.

2) It’s still a team game, and the team’s results are not so impressive with him on the floor. See below. I’d also go back to the point about their offense that I’ve been making above - he’s not suited to the ball-movement offense they’re running.

Teams need defense and rebounding too. Miami needs what Whiteside provides.

I agree, of course. The question is, can they get it without him? Yes. Again, see below.

The Heat are in a bad shape financially because of contracts like those given to Tyler Johnson, Josh Richardson, Dion Waiters and James Johnson. Not sure any of those guys are worth over the MLE but they will be making close to $57 million between them next year. That's where things need to be addressed.

I’d certainly agree about Dion Waiters, but maybe not Richardson and James Johnson. Regarding Tyler: he is a key rotation player - but I would agree with you, because his contract is way out of proportion, at least starting next year.

2   Ellington-Richardson-Winslow-Olynyk-Adebayo   125.7   1.14   0.96   
8   Dragic-Ellington-Richardson-J.Johnson-Olynyk   71.9   1.34   1.08
12   T.Johnson-Ellington-Waiters-J.Johnson-Olynyk   53.5   1.19   0.99   
14   T.Johnson-Ellington-Richardson-Olynyk-Adebayo   47.2   1.31   1.00   
18   Ellington-Richardson-JonesJr.-J.Johnson-Whiteside   35.9   1.18   0.99
20   Dragic-T.Johnson-Richardson-J.Johnson-Olynyk   35.6   1.30   1.03

Of Miami‘s top 20 most often-used lineups, these are the ones that have a plus difference between offense and defense of at least .15 points. Richardson, Ellington, and Olynyk are each in five of the six; James Johnson is in four; while Whiteside and Waiters are in one each.

The left-hand number is the rank of each lineup by minutes played on the season; followed by the five man lineup; followed by the total of minutes; followed by the offensive effectiveness; followed by the defensive effectiveness, per possession.

They’ve had better defensive lineups - including one with Whiteside - but the defense  that those lineups generate does not make up for the weaker offense.


Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 06:57:29 PM
Quote
Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O

39 wins and 33 losses and their offense if unguardable?   That is pure hyperbole and you lost a lot of credibility with that statement.
So you take my sentence that only referred to Miami's offense post All Star break (specifically with K.O. on the floor), cut it in half and then go on to talk about Miami's season record.....and my credibility is shot? 

                                Off. Rat.     Net Rat.     AST/TO     TOV%     EFG%     TS%     
Miami's offense           123.4        +19.1          2.62        10.7       59.2       62.1     
Post All Star with
K.O. on floor
302 minutes

For comparison the      113.2        +9.6            1.90       12.3        57.6       61.0     
team with the best
number in the
league this year

Miami is doing this in the half court and playing at a super slow pace of 96.14, they are not turning the ball over and they are shooting the eyes out of it as nearly every shot is a layup or a wide open 3.  They still are struggling mightily as they have all year to score when K.O. is not on the floor.

I would expect them to be less successful the next couple games against OKC and Indiana as Adams and Turner should be more successful defending them than Jokic, Plumlee, Kanter and O'Quinn were the last couple games.  They may very well destroy OKC's and Indiana's benches though.
Stats after the allstar break are suspect and probably more so this year.  For the season, there are 5 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  Since the allstar break, there are 12 teams with 110 or higher offensive ratings.  As an example, the Sixers overall offensive rating is 106.7 but after the all-star break it is 111.1.  I don't think teams learned how to play that much better offense over the allstar break. 

All these bad teams tanking are distorting the numbers.  For the full season, only the Suns' defense rating is over 110.  After the allstar break, 9 teams have defensive ratings over 110.  Not only are the bad teams playing worse defense but so are the good teams.  Once you're up by 20+ points it is natural to let up on defense.  Plus there is a lot more garbage time.

I guess the way I look at it is that the offense is on an arc improving throughout the season.

For example, if a season were 10 games, and they scored 95, 95, 97, 97, and 98 in pre-all-star games, their rating would be 96.4. If they continued that same trend offensively and scored 98, 98, 100, 100, and 102, their rating post-all star would be 99.6.

You could say, "There is not way they improved that much just because of the all-star break," but if they are improving their offense throughout the year, it's not so much the all-star break that make them improve, but the gradual growth throughout the year.
Huh?  I quote actual stats and you make up numbers.  The Heats' offensive ratings per month are: 
           
Oct     103.0           
Nov      99.8       
Dec     106.6
Jan      102.1
Feb     105.8
Mar     112.0

There's no improvement arc.  There's a huge jump in March when the bad teams really started tanking.
.

In March so far they’ve played two teams that are plausibly tanking - Phoenix and Sac. That’s out of 12 games. I’m not making any grand point, and I could imagine other reasons why offensive ratings would go up, including injuries.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 08:50:54 PM
Previous game against Denver was even better, 30 pts., 8 reb., 6 ass., 4 blocks, 1 steal and was +18 in that double O.T. thriller on Monday.  Spoelstra has figured out how to use K.O. in a matter of months, Stevens had 4 years and spent them all with K.O. under his thumb.  Miami's offense has looked virtually unguardable with K.O. on the floor since the All Star break with a 123.4 offensive rating and a +19.1 net rating in 302 minutes.

KO's season stat line is almost identical to last season.

If you want to cherry pick ...sure .... I guess we can make Rozier look better than Chris Paul

On the whole, better, and no need to cherrypick (not that there ever is!).

Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

The turnover rate is also up, dragging down his PER. He’s doing more with the ball, and his role has significantly expanded from his time in Boston.

He’s among the league leaders for taking charges, but that was true in Boston as well (those who still want to claim that he’s soft might want to contemplate what it’s like to do that).
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 09:21:36 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

Also best season TS% of 61.1% as compared to previous best of 60.3% is no big deal. Neither is Def Rbd% going from 20.7 to 21.4 or Usage% going from 21.1 to 21.3 or FT% going from 25.8 to 27.8.

That's minimally better at best. Basically you look at these advanced numbers and some others like WS/48, his Ortg and Drtg, his Per36 stats and his counting stats and KO is basically the same exact player.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 09:49:28 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

Perhaps a moderator could avoid getting personal?

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

At 17.5 he’s 94th in the league. At 16.3, Ed Davis is 132nd in the league this season. That’s about 40% better, so, yes, I’d call it significant. Remember that PER sets league average at 15. The bell curve has a gentle slope in that area.

I wasn’t trying to make any big deal out of what I was saying, not trying to make Olynyk out to be something he’s not, not even taking a position on the “same stat line as last year” argument. “Stat line” refers to a box score, and PER is a pretty good summary of what you can find in the box score.

 For what it’s worth, I also don’t place any high value on PER, because of all the actual basketball that it leaves out.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 24, 2018, 10:30:13 PM
How soon y'all forget all those shots Olynyk passed up as a Celtic.

avoiding contact ,  avoiding rebounds ,  Zeller and kO .....the soft brothers.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 24, 2018, 10:44:56 PM
This is misleading and you know it.



I do not deserve your abuse, and it’s apparent to me that I’m wasting my time on your site.

Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 11:03:34 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

Perhaps a moderator could avoid getting personal?

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

At 17.5 he’s 94th in the league. At 16.3, Ed Davis is 132nd in the league this season. That’s about 40% better, so, yes, I’d call it significant. Remember that PER sets league average at 15. The bell curve has a gentle slope in that area.

I wasn’t trying to make any big deal out of what I was saying, not trying to make Olynyk out to be something he’s not, not even taking a position on the “same stat line as last year” argument. “Stat line” refers to a box score, and PER is a pretty good summary of what you can find in the box score.

 For what it’s worth, I also don’t place any high value on PER, because of all the actual basketball that it leaves out.
Not personal just calling you out on a misleading statement. You mentioned there was no need to cherrypick stats to show Olynyk was a much better player, like the Oracle was suggesting, because Olynyk was having a career season in a variety of stats. But those stats showed absolute minimal growth in his game. That's misleading and given your reliance on stats in your stances, I think you know its misleading.

Have nothing personal against you. Made no comment about you personally. Meant nothing by it. If you're hurt by what I said, I apologize, didn't mean anything by what I said. Just figured given your statistical knowledge that by saying Olynyk was having some career year in certain stats but also knowing that the increase in those numbers was tiny, you would know you were being misleading.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: ThePaintedArea on March 26, 2018, 02:58:37 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

Perhaps a moderator could avoid getting personal?

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

At 17.5 he’s 94th in the league. At 16.3, Ed Davis is 132nd in the league this season. That’s about 40% better, so, yes, I’d call it significant. Remember that PER sets league average at 15. The bell curve has a gentle slope in that area.

I wasn’t trying to make any big deal out of what I was saying, not trying to make Olynyk out to be something he’s not, not even taking a position on the “same stat line as last year” argument. “Stat line” refers to a box score, and PER is a pretty good summary of what you can find in the box score.

 For what it’s worth, I also don’t place any high value on PER, because of all the actual basketball that it leaves out.
Not personal just calling you out on a misleading statement. You mentioned there was no need to cherrypick stats to show Olynyk was a much better player, like the Oracle was suggesting, because Olynyk was having a career season in a variety of stats. But those stats showed absolute minimal growth in his game. That's misleading and given your reliance on stats in your stances, I think you know its misleading.

Have nothing personal against you. Made no comment about you personally. Meant nothing by it. If you're hurt by what I said, I apologize, didn't mean anything by what I said. Just figured given your statistical knowledge that by saying Olynyk was having some career year in certain stats but also knowing that the increase in those numbers was tiny, you would know you were being misleading.

I explained why the jump in PER is not only significant but substantial.  You have still not responded to that; and in fact you have doubled down on saying that I am not merely wrong but deceptive - and then, astonishingly, repeat several times that your comment isn’t “personal”.

I don’t hold it against anyone to be math-challenged or to not understand how PER works.  If it were apples or free-throw attempts or something, 16.3 is not very different from 17.5 - after all.  Perfectly understandable.

For someone to claim that I am being deliberately misleading has a simple solution – I can just stop interacting with them. But you are a moderator on this site. I have been coming here looking for serious discussion about basketball at the highest level and about the greatest franchise. It seems that I have come to the wrong place.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: nickagneta on March 26, 2018, 03:12:29 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

Perhaps a moderator could avoid getting personal?

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

At 17.5 he’s 94th in the league. At 16.3, Ed Davis is 132nd in the league this season. That’s about 40% better, so, yes, I’d call it significant. Remember that PER sets league average at 15. The bell curve has a gentle slope in that area.

I wasn’t trying to make any big deal out of what I was saying, not trying to make Olynyk out to be something he’s not, not even taking a position on the “same stat line as last year” argument. “Stat line” refers to a box score, and PER is a pretty good summary of what you can find in the box score.

 For what it’s worth, I also don’t place any high value on PER, because of all the actual basketball that it leaves out.
Not personal just calling you out on a misleading statement. You mentioned there was no need to cherrypick stats to show Olynyk was a much better player, like the Oracle was suggesting, because Olynyk was having a career season in a variety of stats. But those stats showed absolute minimal growth in his game. That's misleading and given your reliance on stats in your stances, I think you know its misleading.

Have nothing personal against you. Made no comment about you personally. Meant nothing by it. If you're hurt by what I said, I apologize, didn't mean anything by what I said. Just figured given your statistical knowledge that by saying Olynyk was having some career year in certain stats but also knowing that the increase in those numbers was tiny, you would know you were being misleading.

I explained why the jump in PER is not only significant but substantial.  You have still not responded to that; and in fact you have doubled down on saying that I am not merely wrong but deceptive. I don’t hold it against anyone to be math-challenged or to not understand how PER works.  If it were apples or free-throw attempts or something, 16.3 is not very different from 17.5 - after all.  Perfectly understandable.

For someone to claim that I am being deliberately misleading has a simple solution – I can just stop interacting with them. But you are a moderator on this site. I have been coming here looking for serious discussion about basketball at the highest level and about the greatest franchise. It seems that I have come to the wrong place.
You seem to fail to mention all the other stats you mentioned. I am taking the totality of the stats you mentioned when discussing the minimal amount of increase in his stats. You seem to have forgotten those stats. Take the nearly nonexistent increase in those stats and couple it with a decent but certainly not significant increase in PER and you get a total minimal increase in stats.

By the way, I am far from mathematically challenged. I gave you an example of my opinion of a significant increase in PER. The 4 point jump at that end of the bell curve is significant. I don't find your definition at the middle of the bell curve to be as much. Maybe that'd just a difference of opinion of what significant means.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: smokeablount on March 26, 2018, 03:16:51 PM


Significantly above his best previous season for PER - 17.5 is very nice indeed. Best season so far for TS%, Defensive Reb%, Assist%, Usage, and FTRate.

This is misleading and you know it.

Perhaps a moderator could avoid getting personal?

His PER of 17.5 is "significantly" better than his previous high of 16.3? "Significantly better would be like Terry Rozier going from 10.9 to 14.9. Going from 16.3 to 17.5 is not significant.

At 17.5 he’s 94th in the league. At 16.3, Ed Davis is 132nd in the league this season. That’s about 40% better, so, yes, I’d call it significant. Remember that PER sets league average at 15. The bell curve has a gentle slope in that area.

I wasn’t trying to make any big deal out of what I was saying, not trying to make Olynyk out to be something he’s not, not even taking a position on the “same stat line as last year” argument. “Stat line” refers to a box score, and PER is a pretty good summary of what you can find in the box score.

 For what it’s worth, I also don’t place any high value on PER, because of all the actual basketball that it leaves out.
Not personal just calling you out on a misleading statement. You mentioned there was no need to cherrypick stats to show Olynyk was a much better player, like the Oracle was suggesting, because Olynyk was having a career season in a variety of stats. But those stats showed absolute minimal growth in his game. That's misleading and given your reliance on stats in your stances, I think you know its misleading.

Have nothing personal against you. Made no comment about you personally. Meant nothing by it. If you're hurt by what I said, I apologize, didn't mean anything by what I said. Just figured given your statistical knowledge that by saying Olynyk was having some career year in certain stats but also knowing that the increase in those numbers was tiny, you would know you were being misleading.

I explained why the jump in PER is not only significant but substantial.  You have still not responded to that; and in fact you have doubled down on saying that I am not merely wrong but deceptive - and then, astonishingly, repeat several times that your comment isn’t “personal”.

I don’t hold it against anyone to be math-challenged or to not understand how PER works.  If it were apples or free-throw attempts or something, 16.3 is not very different from 17.5 - after all.  Perfectly understandable.

For someone to claim that I am being deliberately misleading has a simple solution – I can just stop interacting with them. But you are a moderator on this site. I have been coming here looking for serious discussion about basketball at the highest level and about the greatest franchise. It seems that I have come to the wrong place.

Hey man, I urge you to reconsider that this is not the place you’re looking for, coming from a poster who at times has to backtrack from statements made during debates here.

I think you add quality to the board here and a unique view. Nick in my experience is a good guy here and not to speak for him, but I think he in part responded that way because you are a poster that probably has higher expectations in terms of post quality. Maybe you guys can PM it out.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: The Oracle on March 27, 2018, 07:54:34 PM
Triple Double imminent...
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 12, 2018, 04:34:28 PM
Cavs series won't be the same without this guy, Cavs fans hated him lol
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: IDreamCeltics on May 12, 2018, 05:10:45 PM
Kelly "hot potato" Olynyk is a Scalabrine level talent.  I think someday he'll take his rightful place as a likeable 10th man on a contender.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: Granath on May 12, 2018, 07:36:39 PM
Cavs series won't be the same without this guy, Cavs fans hated him lol

It seems so did many Celtics fans.

KO got a lot of hate because he wasn't Giannis. It's that simple. People would look at KO, think "we could have had The Greek Freak instead" and would hate everything he did on the court. He's probably earning his money with the Heat at $12.5m a year for 12 points/5 boards per game. I'm sure the Heat wanted a bit more but he's a serviceable big man as long as you don't ask him to bang inside. He put up a decent year in Miami and helped them exceed expectations.

He's not a Scalabrine level talent - that's just stupid-speak as Scal was never as good as KO on even his best day. But he's also not a solid starter. He's your first big off the bench. So while I'm glad that he's happy in Miami and playing decently, I'm also glad we're not paying him that $12.5m a year.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: timpiker on May 13, 2018, 10:16:47 AM
I did not dislike Kelly because he wasn't Giannis.  I like Kelly but I also got tired of his inconsistency.  Was he on the team for 3 years?  That's long enough for me.  Should the C's have given him the contract Miami did?  Hell no.  If the C's did pay Kelly, we would not have had Gordon, so that was a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Olynyk 22/10/5
Post by: chilidawg on May 13, 2018, 10:20:03 AM
I did not dislike Kelly because he wasn't Giannis.  I like Kelly but I also got tired of his inconsistency.  Was he on the team for 3 years?  That's long enough for me.  Should the C's have given him the contract Miami did?  Hell no.  If the C's did pay Kelly, we would not have had Gordon, so that was a no-brainer.

 I miss Kelly, but as Tim says, at that price no way.