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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Eddie20 on March 20, 2018, 11:10:06 PM

Title: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 20, 2018, 11:10:06 PM
I continue to be amazed at how awful these 2 guys are. I'm sure they're probably really nice guys, but man are they awful NBA players. Hard to win with these 2 scrubs playing 45 minutes and shooting 1 for 13; however, that's a testament to Stevens' ability as a coach. A 1-on-1 between these 2 must last forever. Imagine h-o-r-s-e.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: hwangjini_1 on March 20, 2018, 11:14:19 PM
Given the current roster, brad doesn’t have a whole lot of choices.

Semi at least plays good defense.

Nader, well,he takes up a place on the floor. That is key since the team needs to put five players on the court.  ;D
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: blink on March 20, 2018, 11:16:49 PM
do we really need another thread trashing our players?  gawd man give it a break
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 20, 2018, 11:17:20 PM
Given the current roster, brad doesn’t have a whole lot of choices.

Semi at least plays good defense.

Nader, well,he takes up a place on the floor. That is key since the team needs to put five players on the court.  ;D

A lol and TP for the silver lining.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: gouki88 on March 20, 2018, 11:18:07 PM
At least Semi can defend. Nader is ... something else.

Not sure if I'd rather we rolled out 4 guys or a lineup with Nader
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 20, 2018, 11:18:39 PM
do we really need another thread trashing our players?  gawd man give it a break

It's more like a credit to Brad. Not sure how many coaches can win with so much friendly fire.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: blink on March 20, 2018, 11:29:23 PM
do we really need another thread trashing our players?  gawd man give it a break

It's more like a credit to Brad. Not sure how many coaches can win with so much friendly fire.

When the title is "Trash Brothers" it isn't crediting anyone.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Bucketgetter on March 20, 2018, 11:40:17 PM
Worthless thread bashing our own players for no reason. I know my comment will get deleted but its this thread that should.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Jiri Welsch on March 20, 2018, 11:52:29 PM
Semi will be a decent player in a couple years. He's not trash, he just stinks at shooting. Nader needs to play with confidence, and you can tell he doesn't have it.

I'm glad we won.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 21, 2018, 12:00:09 AM
Based on where they were drafted, they're meeting expectations.  Loftier ones will just frustrate, especially playing for a very competitive team.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: RockinRyA on March 21, 2018, 12:09:57 AM
Semi will be a decent player in a couple years. He's not trash, he just stinks at shooting. Nader needs to play with confidence, and you can tell he doesn't have it.

I'm glad we won.

sadly, shooting is the least of his problems. Reboubding, steals, blocks- motor ia his biggest problem.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: ozgod on March 21, 2018, 12:13:16 AM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 21, 2018, 12:13:49 AM
When you ask your 12/13th guys to play like 6th or 7th guys it's gonna make them look like horrible players.

They are both bad players.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: bopna on March 21, 2018, 04:36:36 AM
Has there any other NBA player that have missed a rare 4 free throws given... Seriously think its never been done before and Nader jus made history.. An absolute trash player.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 21, 2018, 05:56:32 AM
So in a bunch of minutes Semi and Nader:

Went 1 for 13
Was 1 for 7 from 3 point area
Got 10 rebounds
Scored 5 points
Was a +2
Played some tough defense

So they basically played like Marcus Smart would have if he was in the game....based on the stats.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: moiso on March 21, 2018, 06:17:14 AM
At least Semi can defend. Nader is ... something else.

Not sure if I'd rather we rolled out 4 guys or a lineup with Nader
TP for the 4 guy comment.  You can tell he's a deer in headlights and I feel bad for him, but wow, is he bad.  From horrible bricks to missing 4 free throws in a row to standing out of bounds, he does it all.  Plus he's a ball hog!  Probably out of necessity because he doesn't really see what's happening, but a hog nonetheless.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Surferdad on March 21, 2018, 07:20:59 AM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team?  I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Granath on March 21, 2018, 07:35:51 AM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: SHAQATTACK on March 21, 2018, 07:47:56 AM
Nad is max guy
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: esel1000 on March 21, 2018, 07:51:29 AM
Semi is basically a PF version of Tony Allen... he’ll be a good glue guy moving forward.

Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Green-18 on March 21, 2018, 07:53:11 AM
Both have been tough to watch but Nader really stands out as the weak link.  I don't think he will be able to develop a consistent skill that will earn him a regular spot as a rotation player for any team.

On the other hand, Semi has the strength, quickness, and athleticism to be a very good defender.  He just needs to become a competent 3 point shooter over the next few years. 
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 21, 2018, 08:17:12 AM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: hodgy03038 on March 21, 2018, 08:24:45 AM
What I couldn't believe is how last night and it seems every night how Semi gets hammered and NEVER gets a call. There were at least 2 plays where he got killed an no call. How can you be in the air and get pulled to the ground during the shot in front of the ref get no call?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: footey on March 21, 2018, 08:28:13 AM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: hodgy03038 on March 21, 2018, 08:31:07 AM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

Nader has a lot of brain farts. He seems to constantly make the wrong play on offense. He thinks he is Michael Jordan and can drive into multiple defenders. He does fairly well on the corner 3s when not guarded.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: dreamgreen on March 21, 2018, 08:59:18 AM
Hahahaha that's what you get from your 11-15 guys.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mr. dee on March 21, 2018, 09:05:32 AM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.

Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: spikelovetheCelts on March 21, 2018, 09:48:56 AM
do we really need another thread trashing our players?  gawd man give it a break

It's more like a credit to Brad. Not sure how many coaches can win with so much friendly fire.

When the title is "Trash Brothers" it isn't crediting anyone.
I think they both are learning with this opportunity. Nader does have a stroke and Semi can guard. They will both have a few years in the NBA. Semi will work on his O and stick longer. Nader does have very little Basketball IQ.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: smokeablount on March 21, 2018, 10:04:01 AM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team?  I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.

I expected more from Semi too.  He didn't necessarily contradict himself if he thought Semi could walk in and be our 8th/9th man instead of say Theis, in that case, he was just wrong.  Only if he expected Semi to be end of bench on arrival is it a contradiction. 
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 21, 2018, 10:09:08 AM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.

Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: smokeablount on March 21, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 21, 2018, 10:33:41 AM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA.

Couldn't agree more about Semi and Nader. These are end of the bench rookies playing against seasoned pros. So easy to sit on our sofas and criticize them.

Imagine being 3rd tier players competing against the greatest players in the game in front of an arena audience and be expected to outplay these stars. Totally unrealistic....

Last night the commentators were complimenting the team for doing as well as they were with several regulars out and the team basically making do with a couple of G-league level players.

Maybe one could make a case that they are far exceeding expectations considering we've only been blown out of one of the last 5 games.   

Here are some numbers for the past 6 games - Jaylen played in the Timberwolves game.

Celtics over Timberwolves Celtics win

Semi Minutes 6:49   0 points -4
Abdel 0 minutes
Both Tatum and Baynes -11

Indiana lose by 2
Semi  8:59        2 points +1
Abdel 7:43      3 points -4

Wizards lose by 1

Semi 27:14   5 points   -9
Abdel 23:55  10 points +1

Orlando win by 9
Semi 22:50   1 point    -11
Abdel 23:34  11 points -11

New Orleans lose by 19
Semi 23:22  3 points   -1
Abdel 21:32  8 points -3
Several starters with high negative +/- numbers

OKC win by 1
Semi 27: 13   2 points +/- not given
Abdel 18:20  3 points
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Csfan1984 on March 21, 2018, 10:35:23 AM
They are garbage time players so what can we expect? I do question DA's handling of contracts for low round picks though.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: footey on March 21, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: chilidawg on March 21, 2018, 10:57:50 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 21, 2018, 11:00:23 AM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.

My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 21, 2018, 11:01:35 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'

Just curious....what would you reasonably expect from end of the bench players against seasoned veterans? 
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 21, 2018, 11:12:02 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'

Just curious....what would you reasonably expect from end of the bench players against seasoned veterans?

How about playing with a little confidence and showing you're worthy of being on an NBA player? At the end of the day, they're still "professionals", right? Players like Powe, Gomes, etc. never looked completely petrified out there.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: chilidawg on March 21, 2018, 11:51:49 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'

Just curious....what would you reasonably expect from end of the bench players against seasoned veterans?

Playing better than they are now, that's for sure.  I'd settle for below average at this point.

Did you not think they looked terrible?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 21, 2018, 11:52:57 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: ozgod on March 21, 2018, 11:53:10 AM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team?  I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.

Haha I guess.  ;D From his preseason and early season form I expected Semi to be a bit less trash than Nader. He failed to meet my low expectations (on the offensive side at least), while for Nader I had no expectations other than him giving us a few minutes here and there at the end of games.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 21, 2018, 11:59:34 AM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

Got a point about Nader's confidence. He often looks tentative out there...one could also say deliberate. Perhaps, afraid to make a mistake. Ojeleye doesn't back down to anyone. Not sure I would put him in the same category.

As for the Powe comparison....not sure it is a fair one. He was a consensus high pick (possibly lottery). Injuries kept him from being drafted that high. I believe he was college player of the year at one point. Not sure though....Gomes was a find at the 50th spot. 
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 21, 2018, 12:08:02 PM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

Got a point about Nader's confidence. He often looks tentative out there...one could also say deliberate. Perhaps, afraid to make a mistake. Ojeleye doesn't back down to anyone. Not sure I would put him in the same category.

As for the Powe comparison....not sure it is a fair one. He was a consensus high pick (possibly lottery). Injuries kept him from being drafted that high. I believe he was college player of the year at one point. Not sure though....Gomes was a find at the 50th spot.

In my previous response I believe I responded to the wrong poster???
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 21, 2018, 01:56:15 PM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mgent on March 21, 2018, 04:14:49 PM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team? I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.

That's part of it.  Brad has continuously hailed Semi's defensive talent, yet we've never seen him give us any of those game-changing moments that Smart will whip out of his back pocket several times a quarter.

The other part of why he's expected to produce, is because Brad is giving him all these minutes.

Kinda like how we expected RJ Hunter to start doing stuff towards the end.  Brad spent all that time playing him and giving him the experience, even over Rozier (hey, maybe Yabu will end up like Rozier).

At a certain point we expect Brad to either stop playing him, or for us to see something else out of him.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: footey on March 21, 2018, 04:18:23 PM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Who wants to be on record for advocating drafting Josh McRobwrts??
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Granath on March 21, 2018, 04:44:18 PM
I kind of expect end of bench rookies to be trash, that's why they are end of bench players. I don't know why people expect more from them. We're ravaged by injury and that's why they're playing. I expected a bit more from Semi though.
You just contradicted yourself regarding expectations, but I actually feel the same way.  ;)  Why do we all expect more from Semi?  Is it just b/c he already has an NBA body and Brad says he's the best 1-on-1 defender on the team? I dunno, but he clearly still has the "deer in the headlights" look to him.  In the 1st quarter, he had baseline position and tried to take it strong to the cup and got blocked because his move was too predictable.  I expect a more confident Semi with more developed upfake next season.

That's part of it.  Brad has continuously hailed Semi's defensive talent, yet we've never seen him give us any of those game-changing moments that Smart will whip out of his back pocket several times a quarter.

The other part of why he's expected to produce, is because Brad is giving him all these minutes.

Kinda like how we expected RJ Hunter to start doing stuff towards the end.  Brad spent all that time playing him and giving him the experience, even over Rozier (hey, maybe Yabu will end up like Rozier).

At a certain point we expect Brad to either stop playing him, or for us to see something else out of him.

You're quite mistaken:

"all that time"

RJ Hunter played a total of 326 minutes in his 3 year NBA career, the vast majority of them the first two months of his NBA career (and he was a more polished prospect than Rozier) while Rozier was recovering from a knee injury sustained against Real Madrid.

Maybe I shouldn't be but I'm constantly surprised how unrealistic some people's expectations are around here. How many other players in the NBA produce game-changing defensive moments that Marcus Smart does? Almost none. Semi wasn't a defensive presence in college but he does have it the physical makeup to become one. And if Brad Stevens says that he's contributing, then who am I to argue? The only reason why Brad is giving him "all these minutes" is because this team is ravaged by injuries. No one could foresee having 5 of our 6 best players off the court at the same time (Hayward, Irving, Brown, Smart, Horford) never mind key reserves like Theis and Larkin. And when you ask a raw rookie to do a lot more than they're comfortable with, they're going to look bad. But they learn and grow - and this injury bug will ultimately help them down the road when those guys are called upon again.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 21, 2018, 05:04:51 PM
Nader has bad footwork and technique on D, he bends at the waist instead of the knee.  This causes him to play off balance.   A good defender gets low with his knees like AB did.  This compounds his lack of desire to play D and foot speed.  I think he has to go, because he thinks he is way better than he is and takes shots he has not business to take.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: smokeablount on March 21, 2018, 06:36:25 PM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Some you probably can and some not, as I couldn’t find anything of mine from the 07 draft or before, so my hyping of Al Horford and Rondo is gone. Big Baby and McRoberts should be there, I was active here then and wanting those guys, we got 1 of 2 and Pruit. But I went public on FB for sure.

DeAndre was a top 5 high school player and physical specimen on the board at the end of the first, that wasn’t rocket science. I don’t think I was on record here for Bell, just with friends, I was too busy here trying to decide between Josh Jackson and Tatum, and I didn’t think we’d have a real shot at Bell. Didn’t know for sure a pick would be for sale, But tons of people looking at the 2nd here loved Bell. I wasn’t active here when Green was drafted I don’t think but I wanted him, had no clue he’d be this good obviously,  and when I saw Sully on the board, him too. But I would have been happy with Royce White, among plenty of other misses over the years that would’ve cost me my fictional GM job.

FWIW, I wasn’t pushing for Greek Freak :-) And feel free to search my history, I’d be interested in what you find.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: smokeablount on March 21, 2018, 07:08:23 PM
Someone's expectations are too high when back-of-the-bench 2nd round rookies are somehow expected to play like experienced veterans. That says more about the OPs lack of reasonableness than it does the players on the court. That's not a personal insult, that's a simple fact.

All it takes is to look a a guy like Draymond Green to understand this. Dray was terrible his first year. .354% eFG and almost as many personal fouls as points. Now he's an All-Star. That doesn't mean that Nader or Semi will ever develop into even good role players, but it does show how much of a learning curve most 2nd round rookies need to go through to get anywhere in the NBA .

The constant mentioning of Green, as it relates to either of these guys, really needs to stop. Not only is it laughable, but it's a discredit to Green and what he accomplished at the collegiate level. The guy was a first team all-American and led Michigan St. to 2 final four appearances. He's never been a good shooter, but he's always brought passion and toughness to the team. Most importantly, he's never looked lost; even as a rookie he played with poise and confidence. That's the polar opposite of what you see in Semi and Nader, players that look as confident as Adrian in Rocky 1.

Player development is not linear; sometimes players simply don't improve. These two guys have combined to play roughly 1300 minutes and I haven't seen one shred of improvement; in fact, they seem to have regressed.


Does rookie Green remind you of either of them?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUlyhysD9Lo

I don't think anyone that's rational would compare Semi to Green.  I also don't get the Green / Yabusele comps at all.  Draymond Green is about as unique a player as you'll find in a PF.

Having said that, those of us that went on record as wanting to take a flier on Dray in the 20s over Sullinger and/or Fab Melo, or to buy Jordan Bell last year, or any number of examples of obvious underrated 2nd rounders due to one of 2 extremes ('too raw' = DeAndre Jordan / 'limited upside' = Josh McRoberts), have a right to be annoyed at constantly whiffing on late 1st / early 2nd round picks. 

We just have to give credit where credit is due as well, and Danny obviously deserves a lot more credit than blame.  But if we've got smart posters here jumping on CBS for his subbing patterns and refusal to call TOs, and smart posters complaining that 2nd round rookies aren't playing like good 6th men on a top 5-6 team in the world, then this is fair game too.
So you are on record here at CB as wanting Ainge to draft Draymond Green, Jordan Bell, DeAndre Jordan and Josh McRoberts before the drafts went down? We can look this up in your old posts?

Who wants to be on record for advocating drafting Josh McRobwrts??

Over Gabe Pruit, and for $500k a year? Anyone who knows anything about basketball?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 21, 2018, 10:29:37 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 21, 2018, 11:20:17 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: smokeablount on March 21, 2018, 11:34:16 PM
Nader has bad footwork and technique on D, he bends at the waist instead of the knee.  This causes him to play off balance.   A good defender gets low with his knees like AB did.  This compounds his lack of desire to play D and foot speed.  I think he has to go, because he thinks he is way better than he is and takes shots he has not business to take.

Yep. At this point I feel like his only ‘nba skill’ is his drive and kick game. He’s actually got a pretty crafty first step (but by the time he approaches the rim it’s already all over) and has gone from total ballhog to knowing who the defensive rotation has left partially open. Unfortunately, that ‘skill’ just isn’t enough. And I thought he showed a lot of promise that first summer league. Deceptive, deceptive summer league.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: KGBirdBias on March 23, 2018, 11:13:00 AM
I don't believe Semi or Nader are trash or bums. They just aren't ready to step into the roles that we need them for right now.

Nader - Is a decent offensive player but will jack shots indiscriminately at the worst times. He has an aggressiveness that I wish Tatum had on offense.

Semi - Is frustrating to watch on offense at times. He will not use his strength or ball handling to create various shots. He just gets it and shoots it like he's Ray Allen...and he's not. He's a very good defender who will get better as time goes on. I see alot of TA in Semi and in 3 years we may be looking at a bonafide NBA defender with a growing reputation.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: wdleehi on March 23, 2018, 11:32:06 AM
I would call them "unfortunately the team has to play them more then they planned" brothers.

Few teams (if any) have the depth to have a bench deep enough to handle the injuries the Celtics currently have and not have players that are not ready for the amount of minutes needed. 
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mmmmm on March 23, 2018, 02:45:03 PM
People are mostly upset with Nader because of the 4 free throw misses.  Plenty of players miss 4 in a row.  He just happened to do  it on the same trip. Big deal. Two future hall of famers, Melo and Westbrook, missed free throws last night in a far more critical game situation than Nader's.

He is a late 2nd round pick who clearly struggles with his confidence. I for one am rooting like hell for the guy to do well.  He shows great effort.  Do I think he will be on the team next year? Probably not.  But while he is here, I am willing to overlook his mistakes, and cheer on when he makes plays.

Nader didn't miss free throws last night, but still looked terrible.  Frequently dribbling into double teams, bad turnovers, struggled to defend without fouling.  Ojeleye had one of the worst shooting displays I've ever seen, just not even close on most of his shots, hitting the rim would be an improvement for him.  Neither looked like an NBA player last night.

I'm not going to make long term judgements on either because I don't see them in practice, and don't watch film the way coaches do, but right now neither belongs in the rotation.  Hopefully getting Brown back soon will limit their minutes.
'

Well, obviously that's not been correct.   Given the absence of Hayward, Brown, Theis, Smart & Irving, those two guys DO belong in the rotation.   And that is why they are being used by Stevens.

That's why they are on an NBA roster.   To be used when the guys ahead of them are out.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 23, 2018, 02:52:18 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

This thread + this comment makes me think that you're probably not a good guy. Good guys don't compare other humans to trash.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 23, 2018, 03:17:11 PM
Let's keep the comments on the subject and no more comments about the posters.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 23, 2018, 04:42:28 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

This thread + this comment makes me think that you're probably not a good guy. Good guys don't compare other humans to trash.

lol ok

I'm not talking about them as people, I'm describing their games. And yes, their games are garbage. A lot of sensitivity here.


But to avoid further confusion here you go...

gar·bage
a thing that is considered worthless or meaningless.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 23, 2018, 05:49:27 PM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 23, 2018, 06:25:34 PM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Granath on March 23, 2018, 06:53:41 PM
What's worthless is this thread. It'll be fun to laugh - yet again - at the OP when one of these two become a valuable bench contributor in a year or two.

Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 23, 2018, 07:00:43 PM
What's worthless is this thread. It'll be fun to laugh - yet again - at the OP when one of these two become a valuable bench contributor in a year or two.

That would be such an awesome bet to make. First things first, though, do they even make the roster in October?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mr. dee on March 23, 2018, 07:15:37 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 23, 2018, 08:03:26 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Wow...your proof of flashes of brilliance in the NBA include worthless preseason and Summer League footage. So throw them away since its clearly not against NBA level play.

And what you have left is two games where he had a couple of nice plays. Nothing brilliant, just nice.

Hate to be the one to tell you but there's probably more footage on youtube of Semi and Nader having some nice plays in actual NBA games than Yabu.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mr. dee on March 23, 2018, 09:01:39 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Wow...your proof of flashes of brilliance in the NBA include worthless preseason and Summer League footage. So throw them away since its clearly not against NBA level play.

And what you have left is two games where he had a couple of nice plays. Nothing brilliant, just nice.

Hate to be the one to tell you but there's probably more footage on youtube of Semi and Nader having some nice plays in actual NBA games than Yabu.

It's more than his boxscore though. Semi, I can still see the upside. But Nader, eh.... There's nothing much to look at, not even in his highlights. And Semi nor Nader don't even have that much production in the preseason either.

Where did I post a summer league game? Half of these highlights are from regular season. You didn't even bother watching it.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Alleyoopster on March 23, 2018, 10:00:25 PM
Probably what we should be looking at is not how well these players are performing individually, but rather how well the team as a whole plays when they are in the line up.  And, judging by their +/- numbers which I posted earlier. They are not all that bad. Only one game of 6 with a -11. The others were quite respectable even for 1st tier players.

Maybe arguing how well or poorly they play individually is a poor metric and useless minutia. Perhaps, I'm guilty of that too.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 23, 2018, 10:59:32 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Wow...your proof of flashes of brilliance in the NBA include worthless preseason and Summer League footage. So throw them away since its clearly not against NBA level play.

And what you have left is two games where he had a couple of nice plays. Nothing brilliant, just nice.

Hate to be the one to tell you but there's probably more footage on youtube of Semi and Nader having some nice plays in actual NBA games than Yabu.

It's more than his boxscore though. Semi, I can still see the upside. But Nader, eh.... There's nothing much to look at, not even in his highlights. And Semi nor Nader don't even have that much production in the preseason either.

Where did I post a summer league game? Half of these highlights are from regular season. You didn't even bother watching it.
Oops...my bad. Was watching that Rockets highlight and with the funky unis thought it was summer league. Sorry. Still didn't see anything special except his body and quickness.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mr. dee on March 23, 2018, 11:14:46 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Wow...your proof of flashes of brilliance in the NBA include worthless preseason and Summer League footage. So throw them away since its clearly not against NBA level play.

And what you have left is two games where he had a couple of nice plays. Nothing brilliant, just nice.

Hate to be the one to tell you but there's probably more footage on youtube of Semi and Nader having some nice plays in actual NBA games than Yabu.

It's more than his boxscore though. Semi, I can still see the upside. But Nader, eh.... There's nothing much to look at, not even in his highlights. And Semi nor Nader don't even have that much production in the preseason either.

Where did I post a summer league game? Half of these highlights are from regular season. You didn't even bother watching it.
Oops...my bad. Was watching that Rockets highlight and with the funky unis thought it was summer league. Sorry. Still didn't see anything special except his body and quickness.

He's finally starting to figure it out. He plays within the offense and shoots better % have shown better playmaking skills than both Nader and Semi.

Nader - 34% FG
Semi - 30% FG
Yabu - 42% FG

Per 36

Nader - 11 pts, 5 rbs, 2 ast
Semi - 5 pts, 5 rbs
Yabu - 12 pts, 10 rbs, 3 ast

His production may not be jawdropping, but it's league better than what Nader and Semi have shown so far.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: gouki88 on March 23, 2018, 11:22:01 PM
I’m surprised and disappointed Yabusele Remains on the bench during this stretch run, particularly since both Semi and Nader continue to struggle.

This. Unlike these two, Yabusele have actually shown flashes of brilliance in his raw game. Not to mention, he's more athletic, stronger and better motor. Nader have never impressed me, not even in the D-league.


Semi only gets playing time due to his defense. But even his D is kinda hit or miss because his motor is so questionable.

Flashes brilliance? Must of been so fast I missed it. There is a reason this guy isn't getting any run and I think that speaks volumes of where his game is at. He's not ready to be in the NBA and I'm unsure he ever will.


Yep, you really missed it because you'd rather talk about him not getting playing time over the fact that he provided better production than Nader and Semi in a much more limited time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5LYFvJqcHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zjxmBqoCUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwJ64tQx1g4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYlW8n0P8Gs
Wow...your proof of flashes of brilliance in the NBA include worthless preseason and Summer League footage. So throw them away since its clearly not against NBA level play.

And what you have left is two games where he had a couple of nice plays. Nothing brilliant, just nice.

Hate to be the one to tell you but there's probably more footage on youtube of Semi and Nader having some nice plays in actual NBA games than Yabu.

It's more than his boxscore though. Semi, I can still see the upside. But Nader, eh.... There's nothing much to look at, not even in his highlights. And Semi nor Nader don't even have that much production in the preseason either.

Where did I post a summer league game? Half of these highlights are from regular season. You didn't even bother watching it.
Oops...my bad. Was watching that Rockets highlight and with the funky unis thought it was summer league. Sorry. Still didn't see anything special except his body and quickness.

He's finally starting to figure it out. He plays within the offense and shoots better % have shown better playmaking skills than both Nader and Semi.

Nader - 34% FG
Semi - 30% FG
Yabu - 42% FG

Per 36

Nader - 11 pts, 5 rbs, 2 ast
Semi - 5 pts, 5 rbs
Yabu - 12 pts, 10 rbs, 3 ast

His production may not be jawdropping, but it's league better than what Nader and Semi have shown so far.
TP. 100% agree
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: green_bballers13 on March 23, 2018, 11:39:08 PM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think your cynicism and attempt at a hot take falls flat. I think it would be a better hot take if you were talking about players that people care about. The controversial takes trying to discredit Marcus Smart, Kyrie Irving, and Al Horford have legs. I would think that most people would agree with you that these guys aren't in the Celtics long term plans. They'll be playing in Europe soon enough.

Either of them getting NBA minutes long term is a long shot. This should be obvious.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 05:46:54 AM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 05:48:22 AM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

And what upside is that, exactly?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: footey on March 24, 2018, 07:10:27 AM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

And what upside is that, exactly?

Good defense. Good shooter. Pretty decisive when he takes to the rim and finishes.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: mr. dee on March 24, 2018, 07:18:21 AM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.

Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

And what upside is that, exactly?

Good defense. Good shooter. Pretty decisive when he takes to the rim and finishes.
He also have a good passing instincts. Got 5 assist in 18 minutes against the Wizards which is good numbers for a big man.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 24, 2018, 09:29:09 AM
So your point is that that the young guys at the end of our bench are worthless?

Got it. Good point.


Yes, these two are completely worthless. That doesn't mean ALL young players are worthless, though. I think Yabusele has more upside than them, so he does have some worth. However, not only are the Trash Bros. worthless now, but honestly speaking, is there any real ceiling here? Is your argument that they're actually good? If not, then you actually agree with the premise, albeit minus the adjective.

I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think your cynicism and attempt at a hot take falls flat. I think it would be a better hot take if you were talking about players that people care about. The controversial takes trying to discredit Marcus Smart, Kyrie Irving, and Al Horford have legs. I would think that most people would agree with you that these guys aren't in the Celtics long term plans. They'll be playing in Europe soon enough.

Either of them getting NBA minutes long term is a long shot. This should be obvious.

If only the bolded were true.

These are only a couple of the comments overrating both over the past year, but obviously there are plenty more. Let's call it the Gabe Pruitt effect, a vicious cycle where a young player becomes unwarrantedly overrated by the green masses.

Semi is not as talented (skill wise) than Tatum. But I wouldnt be shocked if he ends up becoming the better 2 way player. 

Impressive. Nader might turn out to be the IT of the 2016 draft. Imagine if Nader ends up being better than Brown..
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 24, 2018, 09:38:09 AM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 07:01:35 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196)

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 24, 2018, 07:16:09 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196)

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 24, 2018, 07:22:25 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

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It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

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In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196)

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?

As usual, you're not listening.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: nickagneta on March 24, 2018, 07:23:09 PM
What I don't get is why quality players like Porzingas and West, who play tons of minutes versus NBA All-Star level talent, and can guard those players pretty well, suddenly is going to have trouble guarding a guy that is playing at a G League level for almost this entire season. Cuts, alley oops, coming off screens, whatever. Has Porzingas and West not seen much better players do these exact same things and played very good defense against these players? Why are they suddenly going to have so much trouble guarding Yabu without giving up baskets or committing fouls? I don't get it.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Eddie20 on March 24, 2018, 07:30:02 PM
My complaint is more on Ainge filling out the roster with the trash brothers, than it is about them actually being trash. In fact, I've been on the record since pre-season that they are both bums and was met with plenty of backlash from some posters that had overrated both based on summer league/g-league performance.

First things first, stop calling players "bums", as that's rather insulting, imo. It's fine if you don't like a guy, but to call him a bum? That's low. I mean, I can't stand Marcus Smart, but I've never called him as such, and secondly, in terms of using "the trash brothers" to describe Semi and Nader, I'm afraid that that nickname was already coined by RJ Hunter a couple of years ago, iirc, in describing himself and James Young, lol, so you'll have to find another insulting moniker to do your bidding, here.

That said, and while it is disappointing to see Semi completely fall off from his performances at the beginning of the season, at least offensively, anyway, I do wish that he had been utilized much differently on, well, offense, this year. On the other hand, I never understood the Nader pick, like at all, especially because, drafted or not, there have been plenty of better players available in the draft over the last two years. Why not, for example, pick up Rashad Vaughn, who is currently a free agent, and have him at least take Nader's spot? All I'm trying to say is that we had, and arguably still have, plenty of options, moving forward.

Comparing Smart to these bums? Really?

Keep digging that hole, man. ::)

Quote
It's pretty funny that you keep thinking that Semi has been misused, rather than him being completely useless. However, I can always use a bit of comedy, so please remind me again how you suggested that we should've run iso-Semi's when he was being defended by Porzingis.

So you think that alley-oops and backdoor cuts, etc., are isolation plays. Interesting...

Also, in before you say that Semi puts the "oops" in "alley-oops" ;) ::).


This wasn't posted by you? BTW, I love how you put "guarded" in quotations as though it's completely laughable for either player to try to cover Semi.

Even worse is when he's being "guarded" by guys like David West and Porzingis, for example. I know that Semi's strength and quickness allows him to guard a host of different players, but this also makes for a complete mismatch on offense for Boston, at least in my view, that the coaching staff is either completely failing to recognize or comprehend, never mind exploit.

L M F A O. You just took the part of that response that, in your eyes, I guess attempts to coincide with your views, except that it doesn't, as the very next sentence refers to backdoor cuts and alley-oops, although I did forget about the UCLA play. I think -

Quote
In such instances, they should run the backdoor step/blind pig option for Semi, or have him pass to the wing and cut off of the screen of the center. The result? Layups. Dunks. Free throws. In other words, easy scores. He can probably get 6-8 points a game just on those plays, alone, and then his outside shot will start to fall, but it also takes the opposing big guy off the floor, unless, of course, the opposing coaching staff has some odd interest in conceding layups and such.

Anyway, those are my misguided views :-\.

Additionally, and not that anyone actually cares, lol, in case anyone thinks that I'm lying/attempting to dodge/manipulate/re-frame my earlier points, here's the link to the thread in question - http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94638.msg2460196#msg2460196)

Finally, in terms of speed and quickness, yes, it is laughable for players like West and Porzingis to be assigned to guard him for the reasons that I previously outlined.

Great talk, Eddie. It's always a pleasure ::).

So what you're saying is that Semi is completely unguardable by those players, yet he can't take advantage of them if not by the use of screens? Can you at at least provide one shred of evidence that makes you think he has the timing, hands, skills, leaping/finishing ability in traffic to finish these lobs in actual NBA games?

It's almost as we are talking about 2 different players here. Who are you talking about? I'm talking about # 37, a player that is shooting 29% from the field, has not had a single dunk all season, and has been blocked 7 times at the rim. You?

As usual, you're not listening.

Honestly, it's hard to listen to tin foil logic, when you seem to suggest that Stevens and our entire coaching staff is somehow completely unaware of the talent Semi possesses offensively. Is there a hidden agenda by the staff to purposely put him in positions to fail, or is the staff just flat-out incompetent? Because you're indirectly suggesting one or the other if they are witnesses to his vast abilities in both games and practices, yet don't choose to "unleash" him on the rest of the NBA.
Title: Re: The Trash Brothers - Semi and Nader
Post by: Beat LA on March 25, 2018, 12:17:58 AM
What I don't get is why quality players like Porzingas and West, who play tons of minutes versus NBA All-Star level talent, and can guard those players pretty well, suddenly is going to have trouble guarding a guy that is playing at a G League level for almost this entire season. Cuts, alley oops, coming off screens, whatever. Has Porzingas and West not seen much better players do these exact same things and played very good defense against these players? Why are they suddenly going to have so much trouble guarding Yabu without giving up baskets or committing fouls? I don't get it.

I was talking about Semi. Sorry about that.

Anyway, while West, and I'm not sure as to how well he actually defends anyone, anymore, and Porzingis have been able to guard All-Star level talents, most of those guys tend to be from their respective positions, so they're not used to dealing with someone with much better quickness, hence the mismatch in terms of the latter.

Additionally, due to their size, they'll have a much harder time in negotiating a pick/back screen, thereby yielding more separation. It's one of the classic problems with switching defenses - sure, you might be able to guard certain guys in what appears to be a complete mismatch in terms of size on the perimeter when they have the ball, but not without it, as it's simply an agility contest at that point. Here, look at the 0:10 mark of this video, below, wherein Markieff Morris, at 6'10" 245 lbs., winds up picking, well, up Wesley Iwundu, who comes in at 6'7" 195 lbs. Seeing the mismatch, the latter passes the ball to Biyombo on the left block and then cuts to the hoop, receives the return pass from Biyombo, and converts the layup in a classic give-and-go play. That's one variation of the idea that I mentioned, previously.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8P8_zO-3nc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8P8_zO-3nc)

Am I making any sense, here? Is that not just basic, fundamental, basketball?

Honestly, it's hard to listen to tin foil logic, when you seem to suggest that Stevens and our entire coaching staff is somehow completely unaware of the talent Semi possesses offensively. Is there a hidden agenda by the staff to purposely put him in positions to fail, or is the staff just flat-out incompetent? Because you're indirectly suggesting one or the other if they are witnesses to his vast abilities in both games and practices, yet don't choose to "unleash" him on the rest of the NBA.

::). Yeah, I'm not at all suggesting that they have held back from "unleashing him on the rest of the NBA", nor do I think that they've "purposely put him in positions to fail", although, and this should come as a surprise to no one who has watched Stevens and co. since he arrived, they have been completely averse to utilizing the post game of Brown, whose inside play his completely disappeared, this year, Tatum (why was he coming off of screens against McCollum last night when he's 4-5 inches taller than the latter and has the ability to exploit the mismatch inside?), and yes, even Semi, who, despite his perimeter touch in college was primarily a power player. I'm not saying that Ojeleye should be the focal point, offensively. All I'm saying is that, and as with any other player, if they get a dunk/layup/free throws at the outset, their jumper will start falling. Is that really such an outlandish statement to make?

Beyond that, my reply, above, illustrates my point concerning utilizing Semi's agility against much slower players such as West and Porzingis, for example.