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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Phantom255x on March 17, 2018, 11:33:09 AM

Title: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 17, 2018, 11:33:09 AM
Say, Smart signs a 4-year extension with us at a price that isn't as much as we thought due to the market that will likely shape up this summer (8-10M/Year).

We'd have Rozier's Bird Rights after next year and we're going into the luxury tax AFTER next season guaranteed anyways (IF we don't this next season, which is possible with some Ainge magic I hear from some cap experts here).

I'm not going to compare the two players, but it's clear they have unique skillsets and potential going forward, and I like the idea of having a back court of Kyrie, Smart (or Hayward in spurts), with Rozier being the "ideal" 6th man type guard/player who is more than capable of starting games as well in case of injuries or match ups.

Rozier is definitely having a good season IMO, and while it's true he can still be erratic at times and his Bball IQ isn't super high, he's been fun to watch and it's true that in some really bad situations (like missing half our team and starters), the guy has stepped up and led us to wins as well.

And of course, we need Smart especially on defense when going up against guys like Wall, Beal, Lowry, DeRozan, Oladipo, etc. etc., and of course for his "winning plays"  ;D

So, is there a way, or will Ainge be FORCED to make a tough decision here too.

I'm guessing part of the decision will come down to luxury tax implications overall going forward with ownership and profits, as well as what happens with Lebron this summer (does he go Philly? Stay CLE? Or leave the East, which is favorable to us so long as he doesn't actually join Golden State lol)
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: chiken Green on March 17, 2018, 11:38:59 AM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 17, 2018, 12:03:52 PM

I'm not going to compare the two players, but it's clear they have unique skillsets and potential going forward, and I like the idea of having a back court of Kyrie, Smart (or Hayward in spurts), with Rozier being the "ideal" 6th man type guard/player who is more than capable of starting games as well in case of injuries or match ups.


Where's Jaylen Brown in this discussion?
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: jambr380 on March 17, 2018, 12:10:34 PM
I think the only way we keep both of them is if we deal Jaylen Brown - either in a package for a bigger player (like AD, using Brown and Horford in a trade) or for a lottery pick if we were trying to avoid paying him the max in two years.

I think one of the reasons we kept Smart is because the Lakers pick almost definitely isn't conveying this year so we should actually be able to offer him a decent contract and use most of the non-taxpayers MLE. I haven't checked the math lately to see if we could also fit Monroe's $6M offer available, but that would be cool, too.

I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

This is true, but if we do deal Jaylen (not my 1st choice, at all), I suppose Rozier would be given an opportunity to start if he continues on his current trajectory, with Smart continuing his super-6th man role.

And as I am typing all of this, I think of the last few years when we kept almost nobody whose contract was expiring. It would be nice to get some continuity with the roster, especially some of these young pieces.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 17, 2018, 12:20:20 PM
I think if Terry was a better finisher his time with Boston would be coming to a close as teams would definitely hand him the keys to the car.

The game is without a doubt slowing down for him but it's still as fast as he is. Never seen a guy so good at shaking his man only to struggle to find the rim or shooter. He'll figure that out but I hope after he signs an AB type extension  :laugh: we'll all scream overpay until that clicks and we'll all laugh at how good his contract is.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: JHTruth on March 17, 2018, 12:47:17 PM
I think if Terry was a better finisher his time with Boston would be coming to a close as teams would definitely hand him the keys to the car.

The game is without a doubt slowing down for him but it's still as fast as he is. Never seen a guy so good at shaking his man only to struggle to find the rim or shooter. He'll figure that out but I hope after he signs an AB type extension  :laugh: we'll all scream overpay until that clicks and we'll all laugh at how good his contract is.

I think Smart is coming back at a reasonable price. The free spending days are over. Rozier could do better but only maybe. Well see how the mArket develops but personally I'd rather retain all our bigs than keeping both of these guys..
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Big333223 on March 17, 2018, 12:48:08 PM
It's going to be interesting. I'm hopeful Marcus is here for a long time.

I'd like to keep Terry too, at the right price. I'm skeptical that someone is going to throw starter money at him. We'll see what his game and the cap look like a year from now but I don't see the team that's going to start Terry Rozier as their PG of the future right now.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Rosco917 on March 17, 2018, 03:27:26 PM
If we sign both Smart and Rozier, the next question will be, can we sigh both Tatum and Brown too?


Not to mention Kyrie in a few years?
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: keevsnick on March 17, 2018, 04:40:16 PM
The short answer is no. Not even maybe, just no. If smart gets lets say 9 million then the year after you are going to have to extend Kyrie at the max and deal with Rozier who will become a RFA in a better cap environment than smart and has arguably shown he could be a start (a back end one, but still). At that point you have to consider that you are going to have to pay Brown so are you going to be paying 9+ million to your fourth guard. No, you aren't. And this is why picks are important, I imagine Brown and Kyrie will stay as your guards, one of Smart/Rozier will be resigned long term and maybe pick up a fourth guard to develop with one of your many draft picks. Can't keep everyone.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: td450 on March 17, 2018, 05:37:58 PM
Hayward returns next year, and he will be taking 32 minutes. Irving, Brown and Tatum aren't going to play any less. The minutes will be tightening for everyone else.

 I think keeping both guys next year is a bad idea. At least one of them isn't going to play enough. Circumstances are perfect for Terry Rozier to position himself to maximize his value at the same time that Marcus is inactive.

They won't get rid of him for less than he's worth, but if the team can move up in the draft, or a quality big becomes available, Rozier's more likely to go.




Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Sophomore on March 17, 2018, 05:43:50 PM
Yup. I think the interesting question is going to be whether they keep Terry for his final contract year, when we should have a legitimate shot at the title and he would contribute some high-quality depth, or whether they try to get value for him by including him in a trade.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: bopna on March 17, 2018, 06:47:45 PM
The short answer is no. Not even maybe, just no. If smart gets lets say 9 million then the year after you are going to have to extend Kyrie at the max and deal with Rozier who will become a RFA in a better cap environment than smart and has arguably shown he could be a start (a back end one, but still). At that point you have to consider that you are going to have to pay Brown so are you going to be paying 9+ million to your fourth guard. No, you aren't. And this is why picks are important, I imagine Brown and Kyrie will stay as your guards, one of Smart/Rozier will be resigned long term and maybe pick up a fourth guard to develop with one of your many draft picks. Can't keep everyone.

My thoughts exactly. Unless you dont wanna pony up for Kyrie which will be ridiculous then me thinks we also end up with just one of Smart/Terry.
Me hopes we might have won atleast 1 ring before this decision is made.. :D
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: SparzWizard on March 17, 2018, 08:28:45 PM
Can we still trade Smart in a package for a big-named player?
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: flybono on March 17, 2018, 08:40:33 PM
Say, Smart signs a 4-year extension with us at a price that isn't as much as we thought due to the market that will likely shape up this summer (8-10M/Year).

We'd have Rozier's Bird Rights after next year and we're going into the luxury tax AFTER next season guaranteed anyways (IF we don't this next season, which is possible with some Ainge magic I hear from some cap experts here).

I'm not going to compare the two players, but it's clear they have unique skillsets and potential going forward, and I like the idea of having a back court of Kyrie, Smart (or Hayward in spurts), with Rozier being the "ideal" 6th man type guard/player who is more than capable of starting games as well in case of injuries or match ups.

Rozier is definitely having a good season IMO, and while it's true he can still be erratic at times and his Bball IQ isn't super high, he's been fun to watch and it's true that in some really bad situations (like missing half our team and starters), the guy has stepped up and led us to wins as well.

And of course, we need Smart especially on defense when going up against guys like Wall, Beal, Lowry, DeRozan, Oladipo, etc. etc., and of course for his "winning plays"  ;D

So, is there a way, or will Ainge be FORCED to make a tough decision here too.

I'm guessing part of the decision will come down to luxury tax implications overall going forward with ownership and profits, as well as what happens with Lebron this summer (does he go Philly? Stay CLE? Or leave the East, which is favorable to us so long as he doesn't actually join Golden State lol)


Teams can keep any player they want. Just ask Lebron and Golden St
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: smokeablount on March 17, 2018, 09:51:10 PM
This is my estimated salary breakdown of the 2019-20 roster:

Kyrie 35m / TRoz 13m
Brown 7m / Smart 9m / Nader 1m
Hayward 28m / Semi 1m /
Tatum 7m / Zion or Bol 6m / Yabu 2m
Horford 28m / '19 Pick 2m

The total for this 12-man payroll is $139 million.  Without Rozier, it's still $125-128 million.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Greyman on March 17, 2018, 10:05:38 PM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

I wouldn't have agreed with this prior to this season, TR has made me believe. The chance of being a bench player on a championship contender rather than a starter on a rebuilding team may keep him in Boston in the short term. He probably hasn't quite hit his ceiling though and I think he will get offers.

it would be great to know though that you had him for when Kyrie gets injured or will benefit from rest, which will happen during a season. He has done a great job in that capacity this season.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 18, 2018, 12:35:27 PM

I'm not going to compare the two players, but it's clear they have unique skillsets and potential going forward, and I like the idea of having a back court of Kyrie, Smart (or Hayward in spurts), with Rozier being the "ideal" 6th man type guard/player who is more than capable of starting games as well in case of injuries or match ups.


Where's Jaylen Brown in this discussion?

OMG wow I'm such an idiot. TP for the catch. How the hell did I forget Jaylen in this  :P

And sorry for the late response, after making that post I was just really really busy yesterday.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Erik on March 19, 2018, 11:38:22 AM
I have '20-'21 penciled in as the start of a ~5-8 year dynasty. I'd ideally like to not go over the salary cap until then to avoid any repeater tax prior to "final form."

Hayward: 30 years old, declines player option and plays out final year in contract prior to resigning to max deal.
Irving: 28 years old, 1st year into max contract (or 2nd year into max contract)
Horford: 34 year old, some kind of low level exception
Brown: 24 years old, max extension
Tatum: 22 years old, last year in team option
Anthony Davis: 28 years old, Takes the player option and signs with us: 1st year into max contract

Anyone not listed above is not part of my future plan and should be waived or traded for draft picks  & expiring contracts unless they're willing to take a contract that keeps us under the salary cap & creates cap flexibility by 2020. I'd fill in the holes with cheap draft picks, exceptions, and high value contracts.

Once that team falls apart due to aging superstars, the rebuild happens around Brown & Tatum.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: KGBirdBias on March 19, 2018, 11:46:00 AM
I would prefer to keep Rozier over Smart. He's a good defender and a better scorer. Smart is a better defender but far less of a scorer.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: CFAN38 on March 19, 2018, 11:59:27 AM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

I agree

To answer the original post. Yes the Cs can retain both but I do not think that will be the long term plan as it will not be beneficial to the team or the players.

I agree Rozier is going to want a chance to start in the NBA. Smart is more likely to except a long term bench role as he has proven super valuable as a high minute 6th man.

I suspect DAs plan moving forward will be to try to sign Smart to a reasonable deal and after he is locked up long term star entertaining the idea of moving Rozier. The ideal situation is for Terry to be a key piece in another star trade (IE A Davis).   
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: KGBirdBias on March 19, 2018, 02:00:02 PM
If Cousins resigns with the Pelicans, we can forget getting AD with any package. That would be the thing to keep an eye on. We have a chance if Cousins leaves.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 19, 2018, 02:06:01 PM
If Cousins resigns with the Pelicans, we can forget getting AD with any package. That would be the thing to keep an eye on. We have a chance if Cousins leaves.

I know Davis ALWAYS kills us, but I'm honestly not sure if acquiring him is really the wise move going forward (long term), even if he is "made available" or Pelicans take calls sometime in the next year or two.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: tonydelk on March 19, 2018, 02:11:28 PM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

Rozier wants to start and if someone gives him a big contract the C's can't afford it.  Rozier is probably a trade candidate after this year.  A team would love to grab him and his bird rights.  Not sure what the C's could get but it has to be some significance.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: KGs Knee on March 19, 2018, 02:11:55 PM
Technically, yes they can. Practically, not likely, as doing so would add a lot of payroll (and lux tax dollars) for what will always be bench players for Boston.

It will probably be one or the other, and that most likely depends on what type of contract offers Smart receives this summer. My guess is Smart is re-signed on a deal roughly equivalent to the non-taxpayer MLE, and Ainge then try to recoup some sort of assets for Rozier next season before losing him to FA.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 19, 2018, 10:10:39 PM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

Rozier wants to start and if someone gives him a big contract the C's can't afford it.  Rozier is probably a trade candidate after this year.  A team would love to grab him and his bird rights.  Not sure what the C's could get but it has to be some significance.

If so, I hope we can deal Rozier for some young, cost controlled big, since I'm not sure we'll be able to keep both Monroe and Baynes after this season (we probably keep one with MLE), and we certainly could use the depth behind Horford, Theis.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: GRADYCOLNON on March 21, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

Rozier wants to start and if someone gives him a big contract the C's can't afford it.  Rozier is probably a trade candidate after this year.  A team would love to grab him and his bird rights.  Not sure what the C's could get but it has to be some significance.

If so, I hope we can deal Rozier for some young, cost-controlled big, since I'm not sure we'll be able to keep both Monroe and Baynes after this season (we probably keep one with MLE), and we certainly could use the depth behind Horford, Theis.

We still hold Rozier's bird rights entering into negotiations with restricted.  We are expected to dip heavily into the Luxury Tax in 2019.  The team isn't going to be adding anymore talent beside thrift store finds.  Keeping Rozier seems reckless financially; however, the frugal ship sailed away when we signed two maximum stars so why not keep a rising stud.  I've previously argued that trading him this offseason would be the best way to retain his value.  But now I think trading him in 2020 would be smarter.

Signing him to a deal would involve avoiding committing too much.  Let him go if another team is going to overpay.  It is probably the only risk in this strategy.  And maybe getting stuck with his contract.  The benefit is trading him for more than just one cost-controlled asset.  He becomes a legitimate player once he is on his second contract.  In the eyes of other teams, they can sell that he has proved he belongs and deserves starting.  That means more return and a return that is deeper into this window.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Beat LA on March 21, 2018, 10:53:35 PM
As much as Rozier's consistent scoring has thoroughly impressed me, his complete lack of point guard skills is keeping me from joining Team Terry, not to mention the fact that between his constantly getting picked off, and his fg%, which has fallen to .4005847..., there are still far too many times when he goes Full Rozier for my taste, lol ;D.

I'll give him credit, though, as he certainly seems to have a penchant for hitting big shots, and even though I did not want him in the 2015 draft, it was easy to see why Ainge liked the guy, given his ability to create his own shot, etc., so I tip my hat to Danny and Rozier, lol. The only question now, at least for me, is as to whether or not the latter can keep his fg% above 40% until the end of the year. Ugh.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Phantom255x on March 22, 2018, 11:49:04 AM
I would love this but Honestly, I don't know if Rozier would do it...  I think someone is going to offer him a chance to start somewhere.  I can't see him passing that up.

Rozier wants to start and if someone gives him a big contract the C's can't afford it.  Rozier is probably a trade candidate after this year.  A team would love to grab him and his bird rights.  Not sure what the C's could get but it has to be some significance.

If so, I hope we can deal Rozier for some young, cost-controlled big, since I'm not sure we'll be able to keep both Monroe and Baynes after this season (we probably keep one with MLE), and we certainly could use the depth behind Horford, Theis.

We still hold Rozier's bird rights entering into negotiations with restricted.  We are expected to dip heavily into the Luxury Tax in 2019.  The team isn't going to be adding anymore talent beside thrift store finds.  Keeping Rozier seems reckless financially; however, the frugal ship sailed away when we signed two maximum stars so why not keep a rising stud.  I've previously argued that trading him this offseason would be the best way to retain his value.  But now I think trading him in 2020 would be smarter.

Signing him to a deal would involve avoiding committing too much.  Let him go if another team is going to overpay.  It is probably the only risk in this strategy.  And maybe getting stuck with his contract.  The benefit is trading him for more than just one cost-controlled asset.  He becomes a legitimate player once he is on his second contract.  In the eyes of other teams, they can sell that he has proved he belongs and deserves starting.  That means more return and a return that is deeper into this window.

We'll first have to see what happens with the C's and Smart.

If he leaves/walks, then I think keeping Rozier honestly becomes a priority.

But it will be interesting to see what happens with Rozier IF the C's keep Smart at a modest rate. I'm curious to see what Danny does in 1-2 years.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Granath on March 22, 2018, 12:10:52 PM
The OP asked the wrong question. It's not "can we?". That answer is yes. Both will be RFAs over the next two years and teams don't generally lose RFAs they want to hold on to.

The real question is "will we?" and I believe that answer is no.

I think Marcus' lack of shooting and self-inflicted injury has played himself out of any sizable contract this offseason. There's not that much money floating around this offseason and Marcus has really hurt his stock. Ainge isn't going to let him get away for nothing. Smart should be resigned at a reasonable value and will be the backup PG unless Ainge pulls off a sign-and-trade.

Rozier, on the other hand, is showing that he can play and the more he plays the better he gets. As a starter (in limited starts) he is averaging 17/7/6 in 36 minutes. Those are really good numbers for his current contract. The last two months, with more playing time (30mpg) and more freedom he's averaging 15.5/4.7/4 with a TS around .530. Someone is going to look at those stats and game film and believe that TR could be a guy that, if given the offensive freedom, might average close to 20/5/5 and provide some good defensive value to boot. He's be a valuable trade chip.

We all know what Ainge does with trade chips. But maybe he keeps both. I just believe that long term one of them is out the door and right now the better trade chip is Rozier. Of course, it's possible that Ainge signs Smart to a 4 year, $20m deal and trades him 3 months later.  You can't tell with Danny.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: ChillyWilly on March 22, 2018, 12:27:19 PM
The OP asked the wrong question. It's not "can we?". That answer is yes. Both will be RFAs over the next two years and teams don't generally lose RFAs they want to hold on to.

The real question is "will we?" and I believe that answer is no.

I think Marcus' lack of shooting and self-inflicted injury has played himself out of any sizable contract this offseason. There's not that much money floating around this offseason and Marcus has really hurt his stock. Ainge isn't going to let him get away for nothing. Smart should be resigned at a reasonable value and will be the backup PG unless Ainge pulls off a sign-and-trade.

Rozier, on the other hand, is showing that he can play and the more he plays the better he gets. As a starter (in limited starts) he is averaging 17/7/6 in 36 minutes. Those are really good numbers for his current contract. The last two months, with more playing time (30mpg) and more freedom he's averaging 15.5/4.7/4 with a TS around .530. Someone is going to look at those stats and game film and believe that TR could be a guy that, if given the offensive freedom, might average close to 20/5/5 and provide some good defensive value to boot. He's be a valuable trade chip.

We all know what Ainge does with trade chips. But maybe he keeps both. I just believe that long term one of them is out the door and right now the better trade chip is Rozier. Of course, it's possible that Ainge signs Smart to a 4 year, $20m deal and trades him 3 months later.  You can't tell with Danny.

I'm with you on this. If Terry is moved it's because he played himself out of a reasonable contract. No way someone is paying Marcus what we thought he could get back in October. I like both of them together as they each bring something different but my bias gut says Terry still has upside while Marcus is what he is.

Who knows maybe this is Terry's peak and its the Brad effect. Either way it's nice seeing one of the 2 grow every year in an AB sort of way.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 22, 2018, 12:36:12 PM
I don't see us paying 13m for Rozier to be our 3rd or 4th guard.  We will probably end up trading him.  He is a talented player who will really help some team out there.  Hopefully we get a 1st round pick back or trade him in a bigger package for a star player.

I'm thinking Marcus is most likely to stay because he is going to be a lot cheaper as a defense only guard.  Think a Tony Allen type deal but adjusted for a younger player.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: wdleehi on March 23, 2018, 11:52:15 AM
No. 


I think the better question is can the Celtics keep either? 

Pecking order of contracts:

Top Tier:
Irving
Hayward
Horford (already has the big deal)

2nd Tier:
Tatum
Brown.
coming soon:  Draft pick from LA or Kings


3rd tier:  Everyone else.   It is what can a player do to help those five (or six) to win while fitting into a tight salary structure.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: JBcat on March 23, 2018, 12:31:59 PM
The OP asked the wrong question. It's not "can we?". That answer is yes. Both will be RFAs over the next two years and teams don't generally lose RFAs they want to hold on to.

The real question is "will we?" and I believe that answer is no.

I think Marcus' lack of shooting and self-inflicted injury has played himself out of any sizable contract this offseason. There's not that much money floating around this offseason and Marcus has really hurt his stock. Ainge isn't going to let him get away for nothing. Smart should be resigned at a reasonable value and will be the backup PG unless Ainge pulls off a sign-and-trade.

Rozier, on the other hand, is showing that he can play and the more he plays the better he gets. As a starter (in limited starts) he is averaging 17/7/6 in 36 minutes. Those are really good numbers for his current contract. The last two months, with more playing time (30mpg) and more freedom he's averaging 15.5/4.7/4 with a TS around .530. Someone is going to look at those stats and game film and believe that TR could be a guy that, if given the offensive freedom, might average close to 20/5/5 and provide some good defensive value to boot. He's be a valuable trade chip.

We all know what Ainge does with trade chips. But maybe he keeps both. I just believe that long term one of them is out the door and right now the better trade chip is Rozier. Of course, it's possible that Ainge signs Smart to a 4 year, $20m deal and trades him 3 months later.  You can't tell with Danny.

I'm with you on this. If Terry is moved it's because he played himself out of a reasonable contract. No way someone is paying Marcus what we thought he could get back in October. I like both of them together as they each bring something different but my bias gut says Terry still has upside while Marcus is what he is.

Who knows maybe this is Terry's peak and its the Brad effect. Either way it's nice seeing one of the 2 grow every year in an AB sort of way.

Yep, the short answer is yes we can, but it comes down to if ownership is willing to go over the tax and by how much. They have said in the past they are willing to pay the tax for a winner so we’ll see.

From a pure asset management it makes sense to re-sign them, and their increased salaries would actually make it a little easier to match salaries in a trade for a star(if we aren’t using Horford’s salary).
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: More Banners on March 25, 2018, 09:02:59 AM
It's looking harder and harder to cut down the rotation to 9 next season. At some point it's about whether the player fits the role and the salary for that role. They're both in that starter/3rd guard spot by their play.

Personally, my 4 bench guys would probably include 2 bigs, a wing, and a combo guard. Plus 5 starters, and that's my 9. So there's no room to pay both.

I take Rozier.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: LilRip on March 25, 2018, 09:20:53 AM
i don’t think we have enough minutes to go around to justify salaries.

Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford are your sure top 5 players.

Then for depth, we’ll need a big, 2 wings, and a ball handler. I think Rozier will see a big payday that we won’t be willing to match. Smart will draw less attention, IMO and so I could see us committing to him long term.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: More Banners on March 25, 2018, 11:04:29 AM
i don’t think we have enough minutes to go around to justify salaries.

Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, Horford are your sure top 5 players.

Then for depth, we’ll need a big, 2 wings, and a ball handler. I think Rozier will see a big payday that we won’t be willing to match. Smart will draw less attention, IMO and so I could see us committing to him long term.

Interesting. My 2 bigs probably would count Morris, who maybe could be counted as a wing. Hmm.

Anyway, with one bench guard, on a contender, with rights to pay market value...what's available for that slot?  I'm not sure Rozier gets priced out.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: PAOBoston on March 25, 2018, 11:07:24 AM
Unless salary cap jumps, I just don't see how it is possible to keep both. Rozier is playing himself into a solid size deal and is proving he can be a starter on at least a handful of teams in this league. Smart could likely be cheaper at this point and then you have Morris/Theis up after next year too.

The C's will have to rely on smart scouting and player development to fill those roles with cheaper contracts. Just not possible to keep everyone.
Title: Re: Can We Keep Both Smart+Rozier?
Post by: Eja117 on March 31, 2018, 08:58:08 PM
One guy separated himself in this discussion. One guy steps up when he gets the chance and the other guy doesn't plus that guy gets hurt a tad more.

One guy is a great 6th man and the other proved himself worthy of being a starter in this league.

Ainge and Stevens have to keep that all in mind as to what they need and can afford.

But the debate as to who is "better" is absolutely over