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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: drogbagarnett on March 12, 2018, 12:13:13 PM

Title: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: drogbagarnett on March 12, 2018, 12:13:13 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/


Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: drogbagarnett on March 12, 2018, 12:15:50 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/

And why wouldn't you just do it Danny??
Ainge should have just pulled that trigger!! Argh!!
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: fairweatherfan on March 12, 2018, 12:19:24 PM
I'd have to see the full quote because that excerpt could mean we cancelled a trade that was on the table, or that we just didn't pursue one, or a few other possibilities.

The justification also seems a little odd since everybody knew Paul was getting traded somewhere, it was just a question of where. 
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: alley oop on March 12, 2018, 12:22:43 PM
That would have been Danny Ainge's call.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Roy H. on March 12, 2018, 12:31:57 PM
The justification also seems a little odd since everybody knew Paul was getting traded somewhere, it was just a question of where.

I think you may be reading that wrong. The thing that Doc allegedly didn’t want to do to Monty Williams was trading him Rondo, not taking away Chris Paul. The original TSN article makes that context a bit clearer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/ray-allen-celtics-news-rumors-book-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-rajon-rondo-relationship-heat-trade/8ff8ps2z45om1rxr5z8zti32a
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: hpantazo on March 12, 2018, 12:38:37 PM
So, after Pierce , KG and Ray reportedly bury the hatchet and Rondo states that Ray is invited to the 2008 team reunion this summer, Ray goes and publishes a book trashing Rondo. Way to let things go Ray. It should be an interesting reunion
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: fairweatherfan on March 12, 2018, 01:03:18 PM
The justification also seems a little odd since everybody knew Paul was getting traded somewhere, it was just a question of where.

I think you may be reading that wrong. The thing that Doc allegedly didn’t want to do to Monty Williams was trading him Rondo, not taking away Chris Paul. The original TSN article makes that context a bit clearer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/ray-allen-celtics-news-rumors-book-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-rajon-rondo-relationship-heat-trade/8ff8ps2z45om1rxr5z8zti32a

Hahaha that's really funny then - we'd love Paul but I just can't subject my friend to Rondo.

That would make a bit more sense from Doc's perspective, but I still have a hard time imagining Danny scuttling a viable trade because his coach doesn't want his buddy to have to deal with our PG. And Ray's not exactly an objective source on Rondo. Grains of salt remain in place.
 
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 01:19:11 PM
The justification also seems a little odd since everybody knew Paul was getting traded somewhere, it was just a question of where.

I think you may be reading that wrong. The thing that Doc allegedly didn’t want to do to Monty Williams was trading him Rondo, not taking away Chris Paul. The original TSN article makes that context a bit clearer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/ray-allen-celtics-news-rumors-book-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-rajon-rondo-relationship-heat-trade/8ff8ps2z45om1rxr5z8zti32a

Hahaha that's really funny then - we'd love Paul but I just can't subject my friend to Rondo.

That would make a bit more sense from Doc's perspective, but I still have a hard time imagining Danny scuttling a viable trade because his coach doesn't want his buddy to have to deal with our PG. And Ray's not exactly an objective source on Rondo. Grains of salt remain in place.
Isn't that what Bill did with Jimmy G, but in reverse?  Now I get Bill has way more power than Doc did, but supposedly Bill didn't bother to contact any team other than the Niners because he thought that would be a good fit for Jimmy G, even though the Pats could have gotten a lot more for Jimmy G had they been willing to move him to other teams (like the Browns).
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: fairweatherfan on March 12, 2018, 01:22:08 PM
The justification also seems a little odd since everybody knew Paul was getting traded somewhere, it was just a question of where.

I think you may be reading that wrong. The thing that Doc allegedly didn’t want to do to Monty Williams was trading him Rondo, not taking away Chris Paul. The original TSN article makes that context a bit clearer.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/ray-allen-celtics-news-rumors-book-kevin-garnett-paul-pierce-rajon-rondo-relationship-heat-trade/8ff8ps2z45om1rxr5z8zti32a

Hahaha that's really funny then - we'd love Paul but I just can't subject my friend to Rondo.

That would make a bit more sense from Doc's perspective, but I still have a hard time imagining Danny scuttling a viable trade because his coach doesn't want his buddy to have to deal with our PG. And Ray's not exactly an objective source on Rondo. Grains of salt remain in place.
Isn't that what Bill did with Jimmy G, but in reverse?  Now I get Bill has way more power than Doc did, but supposedly Bill didn't bother to contact any team other than the Niners because he thought that would be a good fit for Jimmy G, even though the Pats could have gotten a lot more for Jimmy G had they been willing to move him to other teams (like the Browns).

Don't know, I don't follow football.  But someone else can maybe speak on it.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 12, 2018, 01:23:45 PM
If anyone believe this happened, they are delusional.

I mean, Ray Allen is seriously suggesting that we chose not to do a trade because we felt too bad for the opposing team. Thats a joke.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: ederson on March 12, 2018, 01:29:09 PM
I don't see how this makes sense......

Doc considered Rondo as bit of a trouble but chose not to trade him for Chris Paul because he wanted to protect his friend..... and not multiply his chances for a second championship

Seriously ??????
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 12, 2018, 01:32:39 PM
I don't see how this makes sense......

Doc considered Rondo as bit of a trouble but chose not to trade him for Chris Paul because he wanted to protect his friend..... and not multiply his chances for a second championship

Seriously ??????
Ray Allen is living in a fantasy land.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Moranis on March 12, 2018, 01:44:21 PM
My guess is the trade didn't happen (because not even New Orleans was dumb enough to trade Chris Paul for Rajon Rondo) and Doc was just talking out of his bum, like he was always doing, and Allen believed that is why the trade fell through (even though it likely had nothing to do with it).
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Erik on March 12, 2018, 01:54:35 PM
Anyone believe this? Danny Ainge (Mr. "I just traded you after you led us to the ECF after your sister died") not jumping on Paul for Rondo because Doc didn't want to hurt his friend's team?

(https://images.vexels.com/media/users/3/143600/isolated/preview/1b2a1e1747f67ce87ea8af5fdf410d23-yao-ming-face-meme-by-vexels.png)

Assuming all of that is true, Stern would have vetoed it faster than he did the Lakers one.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: johnnygreen on March 12, 2018, 01:58:27 PM
Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Did Doc not want to bother with offering Rondo for Paul? Or was the trade already agreed upon between the two GM's, and then Doc came in to reject the idea before final approval?

I doubt this story is true. However, assuming it was, then I'm leaning towards thanking Doc. I highly doubt Danny ever makes the Nets trade if Chris Paul was on the team. I'm not sure how much better the Celtics would have done during the 2011-2012 season. Or how much KG had left in the tank during the following season. Maybe the Celtics would have had a two year window with Paul, followed by a possible long rebuild, in which Chris Paul would have wanted out. I think I'd rather stick to the current path, where a possible extended reign is on the horizon.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 02:19:37 PM
Apparently Ray Allen is going to have a small section of the book discussing KG also. Seems like it may just end up airing a bunch of stuff that would have been best suited to stay inside the locker room. Hopefully the book is more fun and interesting stuff than the dirty laundry and gossip variety.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 02:26:37 PM
*yawn* We still don't like how you left, Ray. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 12, 2018, 02:29:44 PM
Apparently Ray Allen is going to have a small section of the book discussing KG also. Seems like it may just end up airing a bunch of stuff that would have been best suited to stay inside the locker room. Hopefully the book is more fun and interesting stuff than the dirty laundry and gossip variety.
based on the excerpts in the article I wouldnt hold my breath.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 02:30:32 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: alley oop on March 12, 2018, 02:42:43 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: johnnygreen on March 12, 2018, 02:51:53 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul

Your basically referring to hindsight. At the time Rondo was first team all defensive for 2009-10 and 2010-11. he was second team all defensive for 2008-09 and 2011-12. He also finish on the All NBA third team for 2011-12.

At the time, Rondo was highly regarded and was probably at the height of his trade value.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: alley oop on March 12, 2018, 03:06:36 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul

Your basically referring to hindsight. At the time Rondo was first team all defensive for 2009-10 and 2010-11. he was second team all defensive for 2008-09 and 2011-12. He also finish on the All NBA third team for 2011-12.

At the time, Rondo was highly regarded and was probably at the height of his trade value.

"2009" for Paul was hindsight. Do you read. Chris Paul > Rajon Rondo overall all day everyday. Rondo can't shoot and never could.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 03:10:15 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.
Title: Ray Allen Addresses Roots of Problems With Kevin Garnett, Rajon Rondo
Post by: stb on March 12, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/ray-allen-addresses-roots-of-problems-with-kevin-garnett-rajon-rondo-celtics-in-new-book/ar-BBK8sxX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp
Title: Re: Ray Allen Addresses Roots of Problems With Kevin Garnett, Rajon Rondo
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 03:36:39 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/ray-allen-addresses-roots-of-problems-with-kevin-garnett-rajon-rondo-celtics-in-new-book/ar-BBK8sxX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Ray Allen really isn't a likeable guy at this point. I am sure playing years together all over the country and world there were times that every single player was a jerk for some reason or another. Him putting these negative experiences in a book and attacking his old teammates isn't going to do any good and just makes them all look worse. Sigh...
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 12, 2018, 03:40:33 PM
Quote
Quote
*yawn* We still don't like how you left, Ray. Deal with it.

This x 1000
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: action781 on March 12, 2018, 04:04:59 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 04:16:20 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.
Interesting. I've always seen Rondo as a guy with an extra defensive gear that Paul couldn't match even if he tried. My eyeballs have never told me that Paul is first-team all-defense good -- and certainly not better than an engaged Rondo. I guess I'm in the minority.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: action781 on March 12, 2018, 04:26:57 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.
Interesting. I've always seen Rondo as a guy with an extra defensive gear that Paul couldn't match even if he tried. My eyeballs have never told me that Paul is first-team all-defense good -- and certainly not better than an engaged Rondo. I guess I'm in the minority.
That I agree with.  Which I think is what made Rondo so uniquely amazing.  It was one that almost nobody could match I felt.  It was the 75% of the game where we didn't see that gear (and 75% of the regular season too) that bothered me.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 04:38:01 PM
Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.
Interesting. I've always seen Rondo as a guy with an extra defensive gear that Paul couldn't match even if he tried. My eyeballs have never told me that Paul is first-team all-defense good -- and certainly not better than an engaged Rondo. I guess I'm in the minority.
That I agree with.  Which I think is what made Rondo so uniquely amazing.  It was one that almost nobody could match I felt.  It was the 75% of the game where we didn't see that gear (and 75% of the regular season too) that bothered me.
I feel that got worse with time. Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I think that during the Big 3 period he was still on more often than not.
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: celts10 on March 12, 2018, 04:38:38 PM
Sometimes I wonder if a Paul trade would have lured David West into signing here as well, although I think he wanted a starting spot and KG was still playing the forward position at that point. It was during the midpoint of the season when Jermaine O'Neal got hurt did Doc move KG over to the center spot. West sure would have been a nice upgrade over Bass.

Didn't Paul claim that he didn't want to resign in Boston had we traded for him?
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 12, 2018, 04:44:07 PM
If Doc got in the way of the Chris Paul trade, then he's an idiot.  Chris Paul was a WAY better player than Rondo.  If we had reloaded with a team centered around Chris Paul, maybe we win 1 more championship ring.

article:
https://nesn.com/2018/03/this-reason-why-chris-paul-to-celtics-trade-fell-through-in-2011-is-amazing/
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: vjcsmoke on March 12, 2018, 04:49:54 PM
You are in the minority.  Rondo made flashier defensive plays but that's because he gambled more.  I'd take Chris Paul over Rondo any day.

Defense aside, when you factor in the overall package, Chris Paul would have been a MUCH better player for the Celtics than Rondo if the trade happened.  Even if CP doesn't promise to sign an extension I'd do the deal, because if he wins a ring with Boston, he likely extends for another 3 seasons, that would have kept the window open for the Big 3. 

It's all hindsight, but this trade not happening, if Doc factored into it, I'd wish his house to be egged everyday of the week because that's just dumb to pass on CP3 in favor of keeping Rondo.

Is this true...??
Oh my...!!
What's wrong with you Doc??
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763962-ray-allen-doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011/
Whoever wrote that hot mess seems to think that Chris Paul would have been a defensive upgrade over Rondo in 2011. Talk about being clueless.

Chris Paul:
9× NBA All-Defensive Team:
    First Team: 2009, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
    Second Team: 2008, 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Paul
Yes, Chris Paul gets a lot of steals and does well in popularity contests. Rajon Rondo is the better defender. Before he decided to stop showing up, that is (and he was still showing up in 2011).

I mean, Kobe Bryant has twice as many all-defense selections as Tony Allen. I'm sure that's also an accurate representation of their relative defensive prowess.

I always found the exact opposite to be true.  I found Rondo was the steal chaser leaving his team stuck to bail him out behind him a la Iverson.  He went further and made lots of game changing huge plays, especially in big moments, but Chris Paul was always the more "stay in front of your man" defender who's defensive presence was exemplary of the kind that didn't show up in the box score, even despite his high steals.  I read a fivethirtyeight article a few years back about how he led the point guard position in fewest points per opponent jump shot attempt which tried to give quantitative evidence to support the eyeball test that a lot of hoops junkies felt about CP3's defense.
Interesting. I've always seen Rondo as a guy with an extra defensive gear that Paul couldn't match even if he tried. My eyeballs have never told me that Paul is first-team all-defense good -- and certainly not better than an engaged Rondo. I guess I'm in the minority.
Title: Re: Ray Allen Addresses Roots of Problems With Kevin Garnett, Rajon Rondo
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 04:56:50 PM
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/ray-allen-addresses-roots-of-problems-with-kevin-garnett-rajon-rondo-celtics-in-new-book/ar-BBK8sxX?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp

Ray Allen really isn't a likeable guy at this point. I am sure playing years together all over the country and world there were times that every single player was a jerk for some reason or another. Him putting these negative experiences in a book and attacking his old teammates isn't going to do any good and just makes them all look worse. Sigh...

Was this merged like this on purpose? I get they are both from Allen's book but Allen sharing his stories of KG telling him not to dribble by his locker, telling him he didn't tip well etc are pretty different from the Chris paul trade debate and it kind of got buried with how this was done. Maybe we could at least make clear with the thread title?
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: kozlodoev on March 12, 2018, 05:28:04 PM
Defense aside, when you factor in the overall package, Chris Paul would have been a MUCH better player for the Celtics than Rondo if the trade happened.
Sure. But the article made an explicit reference about Paul being potentially more disruptive to ballhandlers on the perimeter which made me LOL.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: ozgod on March 12, 2018, 07:24:00 PM
Bit of dirty laundry coming out here   :angel:
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: TheLegendaryClub on March 12, 2018, 07:38:53 PM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 08:09:14 PM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.
This is how i feel
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: timpiker on March 12, 2018, 08:32:35 PM
All the more reason to not like Traitor Ray.  Don't forget he was catfished while cheating on his wife.  He's either a liar or gullible or both. 
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: celticsclay on March 12, 2018, 10:04:08 PM
Is that in the book?!
Title: Re: Ray Allen: "Doc-rivers-called-off-chris-paul-trade-to-celtics-in-2011"
Post by: SparzWizard on March 12, 2018, 11:03:26 PM
Sometimes I wonder if a Paul trade would have lured David West into signing here as well, although I think he wanted a starting spot and KG was still playing the forward position at that point. It was during the midpoint of the season when Jermaine O'Neal got hurt did Doc move KG over to the center spot. West sure would have been a nice upgrade over Bass.

Didn't Paul claim that he didn't want to resign in Boston had we traded for him?

CP3 and David West in the Celtics in 2011-2012 season? That would've been a championship year. The Heat would've lost Game 1 or 2 handily, and get beat in five games. OKC was still young in their Durant/Westbrook/Harden trio they would've also lost the Finals.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: TA9 on March 13, 2018, 06:59:41 AM
I kind of hope that Rondo comes out and address the situation now that Ray has decided to publicly share their bad relationship with everyone in a book (not that we didn't know anyway). 
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Roy H. on March 13, 2018, 07:32:44 AM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

I agree. I still appreciate Ray, but dang, let it go.  And take a joke; KG paid for you’re dinner and you’re hung up on the dude making a joke at your expense?
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: aefgogreen on March 13, 2018, 07:36:45 AM
I've spent a significant amount of time on this board defending Allen going to Miami, but I agree moves like this are pretty classless.  I also can't believe we would have had the opportunity to trade Rondo for CP3 and and chose to pass it up.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 13, 2018, 07:45:58 AM
Ray was always a class act before coming here, but something changed in him.   I am thankful for the help he provided as being a core member of the 2008 team.   But he needs to shut the heck up!
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Chief on March 13, 2018, 08:10:29 AM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

I agree. I still appreciate Ray, but dang, let it go.  And take a joke; KG paid for you’re dinner and you’re hung up on the dude making a joke at your expense?

You are also talking about a 35 year old man that had his momma at all the home ganes.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Moranis on March 13, 2018, 08:28:33 AM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

I agree. I still appreciate Ray, but dang, let it go.  And take a joke; KG paid for you’re dinner and you’re hung up on the dude making a joke at your expense?
maybe it was a joke, maybe it wasn't.  With KG it is really hard to tell because there are all sorts of stories about how much of an **** he could be.  So I can totally see Allen taking that the wrong way when they barely knew each other, and that type of behavior contributing to Allen not wanting to hang out with KG much socially.  Especially since Allen was offering to pay and then KG comes in and challenges Ray in that manner and usurps Ray's offer. 

Sounds like two grown men in a p---ing contest, not necessarily a joke fest.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Green-18 on March 13, 2018, 09:06:54 AM
I'm sure Ray was upset at certain things for valid reasons.  Unfortunately he has done nothing but tarnish the memory Celtics fans will have of him.  The Miami move did permanent damage but he could have restored a positive image by showing some humility, especially in regards to the Pierce jersey retirement.  His bitterness only makes me view him as the "hired gun" of the KG and Pierce era.  Ray did his job very well but nostalgia wont treat him nearly the same as Pierce, KG, and even Rondo when I watch old games from that era.

Chalk me up as a fan that has become disinterested in Ray Allen.  I'm past disliking him at this point.  He's just irrelevant. 
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: iadera on March 13, 2018, 10:00:15 AM
Some of the stories alluded to in that article above--like KG saying he was a better tipper, or even Rondo saying saying he carried the team in 2008-- sound like jokes, the kind of thing you say when you're clowning around/trash talking your teammates in practice. Maybe the issue is that Allen was simply too humorless to get along with those guys.

Either way, all of this finger-pointing and tattle-tale telling makes Ray seem childish. Pierce gave him an opportunity to bury the hatchet--Ray could easily have said, "yeah, our personalities clashed, there were some issues behind the scenes that the media didn't know about, but we won a championship" and left it at that. Talking about proposed trades that upset him/made him feel undervalued is fair and reasonable. But airing all this dirty laundry about locker room stuff betrays his reputation for maturity. Even if I were someone who had no emotional investment in his time as a Celtic, I'd find it disappointing and unnecessary.

I agree. I still appreciate Ray, but dang, let it go.  And take a joke; KG paid for you’re dinner and you’re hung up on the dude making a joke at your expense?

You are also talking about a 35 year old man that had his momma at all the home ganes.

So, what is negative in having your mother or any other member of your family in audience at home games?! I mean, when you say this, it sounds like his mother is still waiting him in a car after the game (and she's driving him home).
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Surferdad on March 13, 2018, 10:42:51 AM
I'm sure Ray was upset at certain things for valid reasons.  Unfortunately he has done nothing but tarnish the memory Celtics fans will have of him.  The Miami move did permanent damage but he could have restored a positive image by showing some humility, especially in regards to the Pierce jersey retirement.  His bitterness only makes me view him as the "hired gun" of the KG and Pierce era.  Ray did his job very well but nostalgia wont treat him nearly the same as Pierce, KG, and even Rondo when I watch old games from that era.

Chalk me up as a fan that has become disinterested in Ray Allen.  I'm past disliking him at this point.  He's just irrelevant.
Well said.  I grew up in Connecticut, my sister went to UConn (I almost did), and have always been partial to UConn players.  I was happy when he came to Boston and I respect him for his contributions to the chip that year.  Since then it's been all downhill with RA in my eyes.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Androslav on March 13, 2018, 10:55:48 AM
I'm sure Ray was upset at certain things for valid reasons.  Unfortunately he has done nothing but tarnish the memory Celtics fans will have of him.  The Miami move did permanent damage but he could have restored a positive image by showing some humility, especially in regards to the Pierce jersey retirement.  His bitterness only makes me view him as the "hired gun" of the KG and Pierce era.  Ray did his job very well but nostalgia wont treat him nearly the same as Pierce, KG, and even Rondo when I watch old games from that era.

Chalk me up as a fan that has become disinterested in Ray Allen.  I'm past disliking him at this point.  He's just irrelevant.
Well said.  I grew up in Connecticut, my sister went to UConn (I almost did), and have always been partial to UConn players.  I was happy when he came to Boston and I respect him for his contributions to the chip that year.  Since then it's been all downhill with RA in my eyes.
You know what guys, as you, I liked Allen much more as a Celtic player than in his career after (pension) and I think that is perfectly fine. 
I enjoyed his contributions a lot back in a day. Now, he can talk all he wants, I don't have to agree, he deserved to have his say.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: MJohnnyboy on March 18, 2018, 01:31:23 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: hpantazo on March 18, 2018, 01:42:46 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 18, 2018, 02:03:03 PM
The last Rondo quote from that article:

"“If everybody in the league came out and wrote a book about what happens in the locker room . . .”
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: MJohnnyboy on March 18, 2018, 02:09:47 PM
The last Rondo quote from that article:

"“If everybody in the league came out and wrote a book about what happens in the locker room . . .”

Yeah seriously. I remember Shaq mentioned in his biography that the infamous fight between Von Wafer and Delonte West in 2010 was definitely not the last fight in the locker room that season. It was just the most publicized.

I really hope Scal goes into great detail about what those locker rooms were like from 2008 to 2010 someday.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Roy H. on March 18, 2018, 02:19:17 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: blink on March 18, 2018, 02:23:37 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.

Agreed, I doubt this gets settled anytime soon.  But that is life.  I just wish they would all shut up about it.  Pointless drama.

The only difference as I see it is Rondo is reacting to something bad said about him.  Ray has a choice what to put in his book about his old team mates.  He could have taken the high road in the book if he wanted.  Rondo is just responding to media asking him about the quotes.  I see that as something anyone would do if they are asked about someone making negative remarks about them.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: KGs Knee on March 18, 2018, 02:26:47 PM
It seems Ray just cannot let the past go.  I understand he wants to tell his side of the story, and clearly desperately wants to be remembered by Celtics fans as fondly as the others are, but I don't think he realizes he's just not doing himself any favors in terms of earning back any sort of good will with the majority of Celtics fans with the way he is going about all of this.

Ray would be better off to just talk to these guys in private, and publicly just state he appreciates his time here in Boston.  Instead, he continues to be the one that is always stoking the flames.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 18, 2018, 02:29:50 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.

Agreed, I doubt this gets settled anytime soon.  But that is life.  I just wish they would all shut up about it.  Pointless drama.

The only difference as I see it is Rondo is reacting to something bad said about him.  Ray has a choice what to put in his book about his old team mates.  He could have taken the high road in the book if he wanted.  Rondo is just responding to media asking him about the quotes.  I see that as something anyone would do if they are asked about someone making negative remarks about them.
no one would want to read the book if he took the high road lol.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: blink on March 18, 2018, 02:30:52 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.

Agreed, I doubt this gets settled anytime soon.  But that is life.  I just wish they would all shut up about it.  Pointless drama.

The only difference as I see it is Rondo is reacting to something bad said about him.  Ray has a choice what to put in his book about his old team mates.  He could have taken the high road in the book if he wanted.  Rondo is just responding to media asking him about the quotes.  I see that as something anyone would do if they are asked about someone making negative remarks about them.
no one would want to read the book if he took the high road lol.

that is 100% true, why would I be so stupid to think that someone might want to read a book that doesn't trash other people, what was I thinking? lol
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 18, 2018, 02:38:29 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.

Agreed, I doubt this gets settled anytime soon.  But that is life.  I just wish they would all shut up about it.  Pointless drama.

The only difference as I see it is Rondo is reacting to something bad said about him.  Ray has a choice what to put in his book about his old team mates.  He could have taken the high road in the book if he wanted.  Rondo is just responding to media asking him about the quotes.  I see that as something anyone would do if they are asked about someone making negative remarks about them.
no one would want to read the book if he took the high road lol.

that is 100% true, why would I be so stupid to think that someone might want to read a book that doesn't trash other people, what was I thinking? lol
Can't tell if you are joking, but 100% of the publicity Ray has gotten from this book has been because of leaked ecxerpts of him NOT taking the high road.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: blink on March 18, 2018, 02:41:26 PM
Rondo responds.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2018/03/18/just-wants-attention-rajon-rondo-responds-ray-allen-book-excerpts/ueY0vXHLwaOlUDjwOdMWwJ/story.html

Gotta give credit to Rondo for saying he would be glad to talk one on one with Ray and settle their differences. Interesting to hear him say he was one of Ray's biggest supporters in the locker room and that its really the other guys who dont like Ray

I would take both Ray’s and Rondo’s comments with a grain of salt. I don’t think either has any plans to settle the beef.

Agreed, I doubt this gets settled anytime soon.  But that is life.  I just wish they would all shut up about it.  Pointless drama.

The only difference as I see it is Rondo is reacting to something bad said about him.  Ray has a choice what to put in his book about his old team mates.  He could have taken the high road in the book if he wanted.  Rondo is just responding to media asking him about the quotes.  I see that as something anyone would do if they are asked about someone making negative remarks about them.
no one would want to read the book if he took the high road lol.

that is 100% true, why would I be so stupid to think that someone might want to read a book that doesn't trash other people, what was I thinking? lol
Can't tell if you are joking, but 100% of the publicity Ray has gotten from this book has been because of leaked ecxerpts of him NOT taking the high road.

I was being sarcastic...

Obviously Ray's book sells more if he has controversial / non-high road content.  He chooses what he wants in his book.  That is the starting point for the issue.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: hpantazo on March 18, 2018, 02:46:47 PM
Bill Russell wrote several books. All excellent reads, without trashing anyone.

Ray's goal was to to trash Rondo and turn public opinion on his side. It backfired. We all could have told him it would, you are not going to get many people to turn against Pierce, KG, and Rondo after you ditched them for the Lebron Heat. His only hope would have been to say 'my bad, I made some mistakes, we talked things through, its all good now'. Then some fans would have embraced him again.

He should have left things alone after him and Pierce buried the hatchet. Now he just looks like a big jerk trashing his former teammates after everything was supposed to be over with.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: KGs Knee on March 18, 2018, 02:52:40 PM
Bill Russell wrote several books. All excellent reads, without trashing anyone.

Ray's goal was to to trash Rondo and turn public opinion on his side. It backfired. We all could have told him it would, you are not going to get many people to turn against Pierce, KG, and Rondo after you ditched them for the Lebron Heat. His only hope would have been to say 'my bad, I made some mistakes, we talked things through, its all good now'. Then some fans would have embraced him again.

He should have left things alone after him and Pierce buried the hatchet. Now he just looks like a big jerk trashing his former teammates after everything was supposed to be over with.

This is pretty much my take on it as well.

TP
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: nickagneta on March 18, 2018, 03:19:42 PM
Is the book out? Did Ray dish on any of the happenings going down in the Heat lockerroom? Or did he just decide to talk about the lockerroom in Boston?
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on March 18, 2018, 04:11:49 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 18, 2018, 05:11:02 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: csfansince60s on March 18, 2018, 06:02:34 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....

Count Tommy as being "petty" too. (And I agree with him and don't think he's being petty.)

Just now on the Pre-Game:

When asked if he thought that all the negativity toward Allen leaving would've been the same if he went to Milwaukee or some other team, he said no. Then he said

" Yeah, it (Allen leaving for MIAMI) goes down as (he) is .........like he is a traitor. I mean it's like wearing one of those 3 corner Revolutionary War hats and putting on a...a ....a... bathing suit (referencing the beach, obviously). C'mon"

Tommy caught himself and tried to make light of something that bothers him.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: GreenFaith1819 on March 18, 2018, 06:14:09 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

I could very well be wrong but prove me wrong.

When has an NBA team EVER went 24-58 one season, have such a massive turnover and THEN turn around, dominate the next season AND win a 'Chip?

CLE came close in 2010-11.

If it was the LAKERS (Media Darlings) that did this then ESPN be ALL OVER THAT....

What BOS did that year was SPECIAL. I'd hope that Ray, Rondo, KG, Paul and Co. could focus on that instead of the back and forth.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Roy H. on March 18, 2018, 06:23:01 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

I could very well be wrong but prove me wrong.

When has an NBA team EVER went 24-58 one season, have such a massive turnover and THEN turn around, dominate the next season AND win a 'Chip?

CLE came close in 2010-11.

If it was the LAKERS (Media Darlings) that did this then ESPN be ALL OVER THAT....

What BOS did that year was SPECIAL. I'd hope that Ray, Rondo, KG, Paul and Co. could focus on that instead of the back and forth.

Yeah, the +42 wins from one season to the next smashed the prior record.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Moranis on March 18, 2018, 07:00:13 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

I could very well be wrong but prove me wrong.

When has an NBA team EVER went 24-58 one season, have such a massive turnover and THEN turn around, dominate the next season AND win a 'Chip?

CLE came close in 2010-11.

If it was the LAKERS (Media Darlings) that did this then ESPN be ALL OVER THAT....

What BOS did that year was SPECIAL. I'd hope that Ray, Rondo, KG, Paul and Co. could focus on that instead of the back and forth.

Yeah, the +42 wins from one season to the next smashed the prior record.
smashed? I don't think 6 wins is a smashing.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: KGs Knee on March 18, 2018, 07:04:04 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

I could very well be wrong but prove me wrong.

When has an NBA team EVER went 24-58 one season, have such a massive turnover and THEN turn around, dominate the next season AND win a 'Chip?

CLE came close in 2010-11.

If it was the LAKERS (Media Darlings) that did this then ESPN be ALL OVER THAT....

What BOS did that year was SPECIAL. I'd hope that Ray, Rondo, KG, Paul and Co. could focus on that instead of the back and forth.

Yeah, the +42 wins from one season to the next smashed the prior record.
smashed? I don't think 6 wins is a smashing.

That's 16.7%  more wins than the previous record for largest season-to-season improvement.  That's pretty substantial.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: TA9 on March 18, 2018, 08:36:42 PM
Is the book out? Did Ray dish on any of the happenings going down in the Heat lockerroom? Or did he just decide to talk about the lockerroom in Boston?
No. The book will be out on the 27th of March. Given that the book is about his basketball career, I assume that he will also touch upon the things he experienced while playing in Miami.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: celticsclay on March 18, 2018, 09:53:22 PM
Bill Russell wrote several books. All excellent reads, without trashing anyone.

Ray's goal was to to trash Rondo and turn public opinion on his side. It backfired. We all could have told him it would, you are not going to get many people to turn against Pierce, KG, and Rondo after you ditched them for the Lebron Heat. His only hope would have been to say 'my bad, I made some mistakes, we talked things through, its all good now'. Then some fans would have embraced him again.

He should have left things alone after him and Pierce buried the hatchet. Now he just looks like a big jerk trashing his former teammates after everything was supposed to be over with.

This is pretty much my take on it as well.

TP

Can we all bump this forever? 100% this? For anyone defending ray over the last few years this was a turning point. Larry bird's book drive was amazing, and while I have read it ten years ago, I don't remember it bashing anyone
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Roy H. on March 18, 2018, 11:29:09 PM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

I could very well be wrong but prove me wrong.

When has an NBA team EVER went 24-58 one season, have such a massive turnover and THEN turn around, dominate the next season AND win a 'Chip?

CLE came close in 2010-11.

If it was the LAKERS (Media Darlings) that did this then ESPN be ALL OVER THAT....

What BOS did that year was SPECIAL. I'd hope that Ray, Rondo, KG, Paul and Co. could focus on that instead of the back and forth.

Yeah, the +42 wins from one season to the next smashed the prior record.
smashed? I don't think 6 wins is a smashing.

6 wins is a huge amount.

If the Celts win 79 games next year, they will have smashed the Warriors’ record.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: GreenEnvy on March 19, 2018, 01:39:35 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/M75bNSg9MzyMg/giphy.gif)

I just wished they'd ALL just take a step back, let whatever bitterness (if any) go and just reflect on what WAS (07-08) and what COULD HAVE BEEN (08-09).

Too many great memories.

I could FINALLY (after 20 years) go to work (on a NAVY ship full of basketball fans, no less) and TALK SMACK....

Stop being petty and have a true reunion. Grab Posey, Big Baby, Perk and the crew and reminisce about something that was NEVER done before and what will probably NOT ever happen again....
Never done before and never will happen again is such Green goggles revisionist history.

Feel free to bump this thread when a team who finished last in their conference one season improves by over 42 wins to win the championship the very next season.

Sorry. Brooklyn and Phoenix have already squashed the chances of it happening this season, but better luck next year.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Drucci on April 26, 2018, 06:09:11 PM
I just finished reading Ray's book, although I'll admit I was less eager to read it once I knew how he badmouthed his former teammates.

Overall, it's an interesting book about the NBA and the process of going to the NCAA, working on your game, some locker room dynamics, his experience of racism, etc. We learn a lot about Ray's personality too and he definitely seems to be a "chip on his shoulder" guy : basically, from his childhood to his Boston days, he always felt disrespected by someone and that fueled him. He sounds borderline paranoid at some times and definitely holds grudges against a lot of people. And he talks very quickly, unfortunately, about his Boston days, spending way more time on his childhood and high school + college days.

He often sounds as whiny as he does in the excerpts shared on this thread, although he always tries to end up looking good after complaining (like "yeah this guy was rude to me but it didn't get to me [although it clearly did since he is mentioning it]" or "yeah I missed many shots but that's OK because I had prepared well that day so no regrets I just missed them"). He also makes Anthony Mason the scapegoat of Milwaukee's demise along with George Karl while saying "rest in peace" regarding Anthony, how ironic!), basically because the first one wanted all the shots and the second spent his time (according to Ray) trashing him to the press and his teammates.

The book includes interesting tidbits about his Boston days that weren't among the excerpts. In no particular order :

- Hours before draft night in 1996, Ray got a call from Red Auerbach who told him the Celtics would take him if he was still on the board with the #6 pick. He obviously wasn't.
 
- After being traded to the Celtics, and before KG was too, Danny Ainge asked Ray about his income on potential trades or players he would like to get.

- Ray thinks KG tried to play the veteran card with him : "I got the feeling that because he came in a year before I did it was important for him to make it clear to me that he was the veteran and I was the newcomer."

- He reveals KG expressed some doubts when the talks between Minnesota and Boston were heating up : "Man, I don't know how this is going to work [KG] said. I got to really step up my game." to which Ray replied : "You just do what you do and everything will be fine"

- He tells a funny anecdote between KG and Joakim Noah when Noah was still a rookie. After KG hit his typical fadeaway jumper on him, Noah said : "Hey, big fella, that was a nice move, you've got to teach me that". To which KG replied : "Get off my d***" (which made Ray laugh).

- Ray admits he played better against Western conference teams for some reason

- He also talks about, on the early days of the '08 team, about Doc getting on him to give the ball to KG on the block when he had an open three. But during the course of the season Doc finally told him to shoot it.

- He admits being frustrated even at that time of "not getting enough touches" especially when he was going through a tough stretch and wanted his rythm back. And Doc "calling plays constantly for Paul". "I wish, every once in a while, he would have said : 'We got to get Ray going'.

- Ray makes several mentions in which he criticizes Paul, which seems to be his most disliked Celtic teammate after Rondo (although not on the same level). For example, talking about the '08 Finals in LA, he says : "Going into game 3 at the Staples center, we were concerned. About the Lakers naturally but also about Paul. Being from Los Angeles, he would stay at his home instead of the hotel and might drift away from the team. This was no time for that. We had to make sacrifices, Doc said. We had to be one. Now more than ever."

- Later, he admits he felt disrespected in game 6 of the Chicago series in '09, the one where he went off for 51 points (and Boston hoping to end the series 4-2) with 29 seconds to go and the game tied at 101. "Doc drew up a play for Paul. In other circumstances, I would've had no problem with the call since Paul was a sensational one-on-one player. I had a problem this time. As hot as I was I was the most logical choice to take the shot. Paul, conversely, was struggling ; he would end up 5 of 13. [...] Whatever I was thinking I kept my mouth shut. [...] Paul missed and we lost in triple overtime. I'm not saying I would have made the shot. You can never say that. Only that I liked my chances."

- Ray also says he should have been wary of Rondo from the get-go : "In doing some research on [Rondo] I came upon an interview where he was asked if he was excited to be on the same team with Paul, KG and myself. Rondo's response was something to the effect of : 'they are going to have to get used to playing with me. Wow. In hindsight, it was probably something I should've paid more attention to, given how our relationship would fall apart, but at the time I thought it showed the kind of moxie you want to see in a young player, especially the point guard, who sets the tone."

- He admits he could have been better on defense and blames his former coaches "For many years I was so good offensively that none of my coaches took me to the task on the other side of the ball. I wish they had." and then promptly raves about himself : "Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a liability on defense. Far from it" (quoting his D on Iverson in the 2001 ECF as an exemple).

- He also raves about Doc's management of the team and the freedom he gave the vets, the fact that he didn't put too much practices and shootarounds between games.

- Great anecdote about James Posey, who played with the subs against the starters in practice, trolled the team with his ring (won with the '06 Heat), saying : "That's OK, y'all got no rings".

- Talking about the Celtics/Cavs series of '08, Ray criticizes Doc for responding to a question by reporters about his shooting slump ("What will you do to get Ray out of a slump?") with an answer he deemed hurtful ("Ray will figure it out, we're not worried about Ray"). Quote : "What got me angry was what Doc said. He was in effect agreeing with them. What he should've said was : 'Cleveland is taking Ray out of the offense, and we're doing everything we can to keep him involved. He doesn't need to score in this series'." Ray then says that Doc didn't appreciate Ray's answer about the lack of shots : 'That didn't please Doc, who had spoken to a former NBA coach he highly respected [Avery Johnson? Just speculating]. 'The coach read your comments' Doc told me 'and said I needed to tell you to stop talking to the newspapers, to keep the narrative on the team going forward.'

Ray definitely sounds petty about it (just like he does with George Karl's battle of words with
him in the press).

- He considers game 4 of the '08 NBA Finals as the most meaningful in his career and mentions how he defied expectations by taking Vujacic for a closing layup instead of a 3 (and how he kept telling him to "stop crying" during the series). 

- He admits holding out his threes when he was about to break the NBA record because he wanted to break it in Boston rather than on the road (in Charlotte). "I'm not proud to admit this but that night I made sure not to break the record. On several possessions, when I was open for a three, I took my sweet time, came in a couple of steps, and opted for a two instead. I attempted only two 3 pointers the entire game, nailing both, leaving me one back of Reggie."

- During his last season with Boston, Ray says he went to Doc to complain about his lack of shots and the fact Rondo (supposedly) snubbed him. Doc promised him more shots and told him to come off the bench so that he could play with Avery and replace Rondo (I think it ought to be checked because I remember Ray being benched and replaced in the starting lineup by Avery...).

- He mentions the Danny Ainge call about being traded to Memphis and then the deal being off. Says it's the first time he learned of his trade directly and not in the media and he appreciated that.

- Another Rondo anecdote : after Rajon bumped referee Marc Davis on game 1 against Atlanta, Ray argued with KG and Paul who told Rondo to get straight to the bus and not mention the incident to reporters  ; Ray told him to go out there and apologize, because his suspension for one game was warranted but he didn't want to get one more. Rondo finally caved to Ray and Doc's point of views.

- Ray criticizes his teammates for not saluting the Heat after their game 7 victory. "In the final seconds, I reminded the guys to congratulate Miami and wish them well in the Finals against OKC. [...] "Screw these motherf****' one guy said and he was not the only player who felt that way. 'I'm not shaking anybody's hand'." He thinks they thus weren't different from the Pistons team of the '91 playoffs.

- Regarding his contract negotiation with Danny, he says Danny told him he couldn't offer any more than 12 millions for 2 years. Ray asked for assurance that he would get a bigger role in the offense, mentioning the end of possession shots by Rondo, and Danny promised to ask Doc about it. Danny came back saying : "Doc said nothing is going to change. The offense is going to go through Rondo and you need to be on board dwith it and win on this team's terms. If you're not, then you need to choose elsewhere."

- Ray then texted KG about the tough negotiations and saying he thought he wouldn't be back. KG said he was going to be all right ("they're going to take care of you") and Ray said it wasn't.

- He says his only regret is not calling Paul before the news became official but excuses himself by saying "things happen so fast when you're a free agent".

- Ray called a Boston "cable TV station in town" (during earlier years it seems) who had done a poll asking fans which player on the team should be traded (he was voted). "I called the head of the station to complain. 'Why are you doing this? My family is watching, they're very hurt by this".

- Ray apparently sometimes felt out of the gang in Boston because he refused some late night card cames or activities because of his family life with many children at home. He raves about his Miami colleagues for not taking offense about it while "it wasn't like that in Boston. If I chos to stay home and not go out to a club with everyone else, I wasn't one of them."

- Considers the Miami locker room "by far the best one" among all the ones he was in during his career.

- He thought of following LeBron to Cleveland but felt not wanted enough (see a pattern here?) by the Cavs management : "LeBron did his best to convince me and I think he probably got tired of trying. If only management valued me as much as he did ; the Cavs offered me next to nothing".

- The Rockets expressed interest for him that summer.

- Although he destroys Rondo in the well-known excerpts, he still mentions him in his long list of "some incredible teammates" at the end of the book.

Sorry for the looong post but I thought all these anecdotes were interesting and hopefully they will be to you!
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: celticsclay on April 26, 2018, 06:25:58 PM
I just finished reading Ray's book, although I'll admit I was less eager to read it once I knew how he badmouthed his former teammates.

Overall, it's an interesting book about the NBA and the process of going to the NCAA, working on your game, some locker room dynamics, his experience of racism, etc. We learn a lot about Ray's personality too and he definitely seems to be a "chip on his shoulder" guy : basically, from his childhood to his Boston days, he always felt disrespected by someone and that fueled him. He sounds borderline paranoid at some times and definitely holds grudges against a lot of people. And he talks very quickly, unfortunately, about his Boston days, spending way more time on his childhood and high school + college days.

He often sounds as whiny as he does in the excerpts shared on this thread, although he always tries to end up looking good after complaining (like "yeah this guy was rude to me but it didn't get to me [although it clearly did since he is mentioning it]" or "yeah I missed many shots but that's OK because I had prepared well that day so no regrets I just missed them"). He also makes Anthony Mason the scapegoat of Milwaukee's demise along with George Karl while saying "rest in peace" regarding Anthony, how ironic!), basically because the first one wanted all the shots and the second spent his time (according to Ray) trashing him to the press and his teammates.

The book includes interesting tidbits about his Boston days that weren't among the excerpts. In no particular order :

- Hours before draft night in 1996, Ray got a call from Red Auerbach who told him the Celtics would take him if he was still on the board with the #6 pick. He obviously wasn't.
 
- After being traded to the Celtics, and before KG was too, Danny Ainge asked Ray about his income on potential trades or players he would like to get.

- Ray thinks KG tried to play the veteran card with him : "I got the feeling that because he came in a year before I did it was important for him to make it clear to me that he was the veteran and I was the newcomer."

- He reveals KG expressed some doubts when the talks between Minnesota and Boston were heating up : "Man, I don't know how this is going to work [KG] said. I got to really step up my game." to which Ray replied : "You just do what you do and everything will be fine"

- He tells a funny anecdote between KG and Joakim Noah when Noah was still a rookie. After KG hit his typical fadeaway jumper on him, Noah said : "Hey, big fella, that was a nice move, you've got to teach me that". To which KG replied : "Get off my d***" (which made Ray laugh).

- Ray admits he played better against Western conference teams for some reason

- He also talks about, on the early days of the '08 team, about Doc getting on him to give the ball to KG on the block when he had an open three. But during the course of the season Doc finally told him to shoot it.

- He admits being frustrated even at that time of "not getting enough touches" especially when he was going through a tough stretch and wanted his rythm back. And Doc "calling plays constantly for Paul". "I wish, every once in a while, he would have said : 'We got to get Ray going'.

- Ray makes several mentions in which he criticizes Paul, which seems to be his most disliked Celtic teammate after Rondo (although not on the same level). For example, talking about the '08 Finals in LA, he says : "Going into game 3 at the Staples center, we were concerned. About the Lakers naturally but also about Paul. Being from Los Angeles, he would stay at his home instead of the hotel and might drift away from the team. This was no time for that. We had to make sacrifices, Doc said. We had to be one. Now more than ever."

- Later, he admits he felt disrespected in game 6 of the Chicago series in '09, the one where he went off for 51 points (and Boston hoping to end the series 4-2) with 29 seconds to go and the game tied at 101. "Doc drew up a play for Paul. In other circumstances, I would've had no problem with the call since Paul was a sensational one-on-one player. I had a problem this time. As hot as I was I was the most logical choice to take the shot. Paul, conversely, was struggling ; he would end up 5 of 13. [...] Whatever I was thinking I kept my mouth shut. [...] Paul missed and we lost in triple overtime. I'm not saying I would have made the shot. You can never say that. Only that I liked my chances."

- Ray also says he should have been wary of Rondo from the get-go : "In doing some research on [Rondo] I came upon an interview where he was asked if he was excited to be on the same team with Paul, KG and myself. Rondo's response was something to the effect of : 'they are going to have to get used to playing with me. Wow. In hindsight, it was probably something I should've paid more attention to, given how our relationship would fall apart, but at the time I thought it showed the kind of moxie you want to see in a young player, especially the point guard, who sets the tone."

- He admits he could have been better on defense and blames his former coaches "For many years I was so good offensively that none of my coaches took me to the task on the other side of the ball. I wish they had." and then promptly raves about himself : "Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a liability on defense. Far from it" (quoting his D on Iverson in the 2001 ECF as an exemple).

- He also raves about Doc's management of the team and the freedom he gave the vets, the fact that he didn't put too much practices and shootarounds between games.

- Great anecdote about James Posey, who played with the subs against the starters in practice, trolled the team with his ring (won with the '06 Heat), saying : "That's OK, y'all got no rings".

- Talking about the Celtics/Cavs series of '08, Ray criticizes Doc for responding to a question by reporters about his shooting slump ("What will you do to get Ray out of a slump?") with an answer he deemed hurtful ("Ray will figure it out, we're not worried about Ray"). Quote : "What got me angry was what Doc said. He was in effect agreeing with them. What he should've said was : 'Cleveland is taking Ray out of the offense, and we're doing everything we can to keep him involved. He doesn't need to score in this series'." Ray then says that Doc didn't appreciate Ray's answer about the lack of shots : 'That didn't please Doc, who had spoken to a former NBA coach he highly respected [Avery Johnson? Just speculating]. 'The coach read your comments' Doc told me 'and said I needed to tell you to stop talking to the newspapers, to keep the narrative on the team going forward.'

Ray definitely sounds petty about it (just like he does with George Karl's battle of words with
him in the press).

- He considers game 4 of the '08 NBA Finals as the most meaningful in his career and mentions how he defied expectations by taking Vujacic for a closing layup instead of a 3 (and how he kept telling him to "stop crying" during the series). 

- He admits holding out his threes when he was about to break the NBA record because he wanted to break it in Boston rather than on the road (in Charlotte). "I'm not proud to admit this but that night I made sure not to break the record. On several possessions, when I was open for a three, I took my sweet time, came in a couple of steps, and opted for a two instead. I attempted only two 3 pointers the entire game, nailing both, leaving me one back of Reggie."

- During his last season with Boston, Ray says he went to Doc to complain about his lack of shots and the fact Rondo (supposedly) snubbed him. Doc promised him more shots and told him to come off the bench so that he could play with Avery and replace Rondo (I think it ought to be checked because I remember Ray being benched and replaced in the starting lineup by Avery...).

- He mentions the Danny Ainge call about being traded to Memphis and then the deal being off. Says it's the first time he learned of his trade directly and not in the media and he appreciated that.

- Another Rondo anecdote : after Rajon bumped referee Marc Davis on game 1 against Atlanta, Ray argued with KG and Paul who told Rondo to get straight to the bus and not mention the incident to reporters  ; Ray told him to go out there and apologize, because his suspension for one game was warranted but he didn't want to get one more. Rondo finally caved to Ray and Doc's point of views.

- Ray criticizes his teammates for not saluting the Heat after their game 7 victory. "In the final seconds, I reminded the guys to congratulate Miami and wish them well in the Finals against OKC. [...] "Screw these motherf****' one guy said and he was not the only player who felt that way. 'I'm not shaking anybody's hand'." He thinks they thus weren't different from the Pistons team of the '91 playoffs.

- Regarding his contract negotiation with Danny, he says Danny told him he couldn't offer any more than 12 millions for 2 years. Ray asked for assurance that he would get a bigger role in the offense, mentioning the end of possession shots by Rondo, and Danny promised to ask Doc about it. Danny came back saying : "Doc said nothing is going to change. The offense is going to go through Rondo and you need to be on board dwith it and win on this team's terms. If you're not, then you need to choose elsewhere."

- Ray then texted KG about the tough negotiations and saying he thought he wouldn't be back. KG said he was going to be all right ("they're going to take care of you") and Ray said it wasn't.

- He says his only regret is not calling Paul before the news became official but excuses himself by saying "things happen so fast when you're a free agent".

- Ray called a Boston "cable TV station in town" (during earlier years it seems) who had done a poll asking fans which player on the team should be traded (he was voted). "I called the head of the station to complain. 'Why are you doing this? My family is watching, they're very hurt by this".

- Ray apparently sometimes felt out of the gang in Boston because he refused some late night card cames or activities because of his family life with many children at home. He raves about his Miami colleagues for not taking offense about it while "it wasn't like that in Boston. If I chos to stay home and not go out to a club with everyone else, I wasn't one of them."

- Considers the Miami locker room "by far the best one" among all the ones he was in during his career.

- He thought of following LeBron to Cleveland but felt not wanted enough (see a pattern here?) by the Cavs management : "LeBron did his best to convince me and I think he probably got tired of trying. If only management valued me as much as he did ; the Cavs offered me next to nothing".

- The Rockets expressed interest for him that summer.

- Although he destroys Rondo in the well-known excerpts, he still mentions him in his long list of "some incredible teammates" at the end of the book.

Sorry for the looong post but I thought all these anecdotes were interesting and hopefully they will be to you!

Man I am only a few years younger than Ray and I couldn't possibly think of/remember 1/10th the grievances Ray lists out here from every aspect of my life combined. What a sensitive small man.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: footey on April 26, 2018, 06:26:23 PM
I just finished reading Ray's book, although I'll admit I was less eager to read it once I knew how he badmouthed his former teammates.

Overall, it's an interesting book about the NBA and the process of going to the NCAA, working on your game, some locker room dynamics, his experience of racism, etc. We learn a lot about Ray's personality too and he definitely seems to be a "chip on his shoulder" guy : basically, from his childhood to his Boston days, he always felt disrespected by someone and that fueled him. He sounds borderline paranoid at some times and definitely holds grudges against a lot of people. And he talks very quickly, unfortunately, about his Boston days, spending way more time on his childhood and high school + college days.

He often sounds as whiny as he does in the excerpts shared on this thread, although he always tries to end up looking good after complaining (like "yeah this guy was rude to me but it didn't get to me [although it clearly did since he is mentioning it]" or "yeah I missed many shots but that's OK because I had prepared well that day so no regrets I just missed them"). He also makes Anthony Mason the scapegoat of Milwaukee's demise along with George Karl while saying "rest in peace" regarding Anthony, how ironic!), basically because the first one wanted all the shots and the second spent his time (according to Ray) trashing him to the press and his teammates.

The book includes interesting tidbits about his Boston days that weren't among the excerpts. In no particular order :

- Hours before draft night in 1996, Ray got a call from Red Auerbach who told him the Celtics would take him if he was still on the board with the #6 pick. He obviously wasn't.
 
- After being traded to the Celtics, and before KG was too, Danny Ainge asked Ray about his income on potential trades or players he would like to get.

- Ray thinks KG tried to play the veteran card with him : "I got the feeling that because he came in a year before I did it was important for him to make it clear to me that he was the veteran and I was the newcomer."

- He reveals KG expressed some doubts when the talks between Minnesota and Boston were heating up : "Man, I don't know how this is going to work [KG] said. I got to really step up my game." to which Ray replied : "You just do what you do and everything will be fine"

- He tells a funny anecdote between KG and Joakim Noah when Noah was still a rookie. After KG hit his typical fadeaway jumper on him, Noah said : "Hey, big fella, that was a nice move, you've got to teach me that". To which KG replied : "Get off my d***" (which made Ray laugh).

- Ray admits he played better against Western conference teams for some reason

- He also talks about, on the early days of the '08 team, about Doc getting on him to give the ball to KG on the block when he had an open three. But during the course of the season Doc finally told him to shoot it.

- He admits being frustrated even at that time of "not getting enough touches" especially when he was going through a tough stretch and wanted his rythm back. And Doc "calling plays constantly for Paul". "I wish, every once in a while, he would have said : 'We got to get Ray going'.

- Ray makes several mentions in which he criticizes Paul, which seems to be his most disliked Celtic teammate after Rondo (although not on the same level). For example, talking about the '08 Finals in LA, he says : "Going into game 3 at the Staples center, we were concerned. About the Lakers naturally but also about Paul. Being from Los Angeles, he would stay at his home instead of the hotel and might drift away from the team. This was no time for that. We had to make sacrifices, Doc said. We had to be one. Now more than ever."

- Later, he admits he felt disrespected in game 6 of the Chicago series in '09, the one where he went off for 51 points (and Boston hoping to end the series 4-2) with 29 seconds to go and the game tied at 101. "Doc drew up a play for Paul. In other circumstances, I would've had no problem with the call since Paul was a sensational one-on-one player. I had a problem this time. As hot as I was I was the most logical choice to take the shot. Paul, conversely, was struggling ; he would end up 5 of 13. [...] Whatever I was thinking I kept my mouth shut. [...] Paul missed and we lost in triple overtime. I'm not saying I would have made the shot. You can never say that. Only that I liked my chances."

- Ray also says he should have been wary of Rondo from the get-go : "In doing some research on [Rondo] I came upon an interview where he was asked if he was excited to be on the same team with Paul, KG and myself. Rondo's response was something to the effect of : 'they are going to have to get used to playing with me. Wow. In hindsight, it was probably something I should've paid more attention to, given how our relationship would fall apart, but at the time I thought it showed the kind of moxie you want to see in a young player, especially the point guard, who sets the tone."

- He admits he could have been better on defense and blames his former coaches "For many years I was so good offensively that none of my coaches took me to the task on the other side of the ball. I wish they had." and then promptly raves about himself : "Don't get me wrong, I wasn't a liability on defense. Far from it" (quoting his D on Iverson in the 2001 ECF as an exemple).

- He also raves about Doc's management of the team and the freedom he gave the vets, the fact that he didn't put too much practices and shootarounds between games.

- Great anecdote about James Posey, who played with the subs against the starters in practice, trolled the team with his ring (won with the '06 Heat), saying : "That's OK, y'all got no rings".

- Talking about the Celtics/Cavs series of '08, Ray criticizes Doc for responding to a question by reporters about his shooting slump ("What will you do to get Ray out of a slump?") with an answer he deemed hurtful ("Ray will figure it out, we're not worried about Ray"). Quote : "What got me angry was what Doc said. He was in effect agreeing with them. What he should've said was : 'Cleveland is taking Ray out of the offense, and we're doing everything we can to keep him involved. He doesn't need to score in this series'." Ray then says that Doc didn't appreciate Ray's answer about the lack of shots : 'That didn't please Doc, who had spoken to a former NBA coach he highly respected [Avery Johnson? Just speculating]. 'The coach read your comments' Doc told me 'and said I needed to tell you to stop talking to the newspapers, to keep the narrative on the team going forward.'

Ray definitely sounds petty about it (just like he does with George Karl's battle of words with
him in the press).

- He considers game 4 of the '08 NBA Finals as the most meaningful in his career and mentions how he defied expectations by taking Vujacic for a closing layup instead of a 3 (and how he kept telling him to "stop crying" during the series). 

- He admits holding out his threes when he was about to break the NBA record because he wanted to break it in Boston rather than on the road (in Charlotte). "I'm not proud to admit this but that night I made sure not to break the record. On several possessions, when I was open for a three, I took my sweet time, came in a couple of steps, and opted for a two instead. I attempted only two 3 pointers the entire game, nailing both, leaving me one back of Reggie."

- During his last season with Boston, Ray says he went to Doc to complain about his lack of shots and the fact Rondo (supposedly) snubbed him. Doc promised him more shots and told him to come off the bench so that he could play with Avery and replace Rondo (I think it ought to be checked because I remember Ray being benched and replaced in the starting lineup by Avery...).

- He mentions the Danny Ainge call about being traded to Memphis and then the deal being off. Says it's the first time he learned of his trade directly and not in the media and he appreciated that.

- Another Rondo anecdote : after Rajon bumped referee Marc Davis on game 1 against Atlanta, Ray argued with KG and Paul who told Rondo to get straight to the bus and not mention the incident to reporters  ; Ray told him to go out there and apologize, because his suspension for one game was warranted but he didn't want to get one more. Rondo finally caved to Ray and Doc's point of views.

- Ray criticizes his teammates for not saluting the Heat after their game 7 victory. "In the final seconds, I reminded the guys to congratulate Miami and wish them well in the Finals against OKC. [...] "Screw these motherf****' one guy said and he was not the only player who felt that way. 'I'm not shaking anybody's hand'." He thinks they thus weren't different from the Pistons team of the '91 playoffs.

- Regarding his contract negotiation with Danny, he says Danny told him he couldn't offer any more than 12 millions for 2 years. Ray asked for assurance that he would get a bigger role in the offense, mentioning the end of possession shots by Rondo, and Danny promised to ask Doc about it. Danny came back saying : "Doc said nothing is going to change. The offense is going to go through Rondo and you need to be on board dwith it and win on this team's terms. If you're not, then you need to choose elsewhere."

- Ray then texted KG about the tough negotiations and saying he thought he wouldn't be back. KG said he was going to be all right ("they're going to take care of you") and Ray said it wasn't.

- He says his only regret is not calling Paul before the news became official but excuses himself by saying "things happen so fast when you're a free agent".

- Ray called a Boston "cable TV station in town" (during earlier years it seems) who had done a poll asking fans which player on the team should be traded (he was voted). "I called the head of the station to complain. 'Why are you doing this? My family is watching, they're very hurt by this".

- Ray apparently sometimes felt out of the gang in Boston because he refused some late night card cames or activities because of his family life with many children at home. He raves about his Miami colleagues for not taking offense about it while "it wasn't like that in Boston. If I chos to stay home and not go out to a club with everyone else, I wasn't one of them."

- Considers the Miami locker room "by far the best one" among all the ones he was in during his career.

- He thought of following LeBron to Cleveland but felt not wanted enough (see a pattern here?) by the Cavs management : "LeBron did his best to convince me and I think he probably got tired of trying. If only management valued me as much as he did ; the Cavs offered me next to nothing".

- The Rockets expressed interest for him that summer.

- Although he destroys Rondo in the well-known excerpts, he still mentions him in his long list of "some incredible teammates" at the end of the book.

Sorry for the looong post but I thought all these anecdotes were interesting and hopefully they will be to you!

TP! Now I don't have to buy the book, you just summarized it!!
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: apc on April 26, 2018, 06:40:29 PM
Looks like he was keeping a diary his whole career.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: SHAQATTACK on April 26, 2018, 07:00:59 PM
Diary of a mad man
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: celticsclay on April 26, 2018, 07:10:46 PM
Diary of a smad man
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: 2short on April 26, 2018, 07:11:17 PM
Isn't ray obsessive compulsive by definition?  Workouts etc
If so he needs things his way and will have opinions that are really for his benefit no one else's

So long, farewell.  He should try to keep quiet.  I'd hate to put him on a certain level of C's former players
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Drucci on April 27, 2018, 04:21:24 AM
Looks like he was keeping a diary his whole career.

I read in an interview that he actually got a first draft of his biography after his Milwaukee days but didn't publish it at the time (which is not surprising, considering he didn't have much to talk about at that time).
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Ogaju on April 27, 2018, 05:38:57 AM
No fact check necessary on the Avery substitution Ray's account is consistent with Avery replacing him in the starting lineup and Ray coming off the bench for Rondo so He (Ray) would be paired with Avery and avoid playing with Rondo.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: TA9 on April 27, 2018, 06:19:02 AM
Thanks for the tidbits Drucci! TP!
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Androslav on April 27, 2018, 07:14:43 AM
Thanks for the tidbits Drucci! TP!
Good effort Drucci! TP!
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Who on April 27, 2018, 07:22:39 AM
Thanks for the tidbits Drucci! TP!
Same here. Thanks very much. Much enjoyed. TP.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Drucci on April 27, 2018, 01:31:38 PM
No fact check necessary on the Avery substitution Ray's account is consistent with Avery replacing him in the starting lineup and Ray coming off the bench for Rondo so He (Ray) would be paired with Avery and avoid playing with Rondo.

You're right, I forgot about that !

Thanks for the tidbits Drucci! TP!
Same here. Thanks very much. Much enjoyed. TP.

Thanks guys, glad you liked it !
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Big333223 on April 27, 2018, 03:02:47 PM
- He tells a funny anecdote between KG and Joakim Noah when Noah was still a rookie. After KG hit his typical fadeaway jumper on him, Noah said : "Hey, big fella, that was a nice move, you've got to teach me that". To which KG replied : "Get off my d***" (which made Ray laugh).

TP for the whole thing but lol at this. Great.

Quote
- He admits being frustrated even at that time of "not getting enough touches" especially when he was going through a tough stretch and wanted his rythm back. And Doc "calling plays constantly for Paul". "I wish, every once in a while, he would have said : 'We got to get Ray going'.

This doesn't surprise me. I know its popular to hate Ray but the truth is that of the 3 stars that won together in '08 he sacrificed the most. A lot of fan don't remember or just don't know how complete of an offensive player he was in Milwaukee and Seattle. He wasn't just the spot up shooter he became in Boston (and then moreso Miami) but he took his limited role and helped the C's win a championship and did his best in losing efforts for a few more.

The book sounds whiny but I've got nothing but respect for him and how he carried himself as a ball player.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Drucci on April 28, 2018, 05:15:54 AM
I know its popular to hate Ray but the truth is that of the 3 stars that won together in '08 he sacrificed the most. A lot of fan don't remember or just don't know how complete of an offensive player he was in Milwaukee and Seattle. He wasn't just the spot up shooter he became in Boston (and then moreso Miami) but he took his limited role and helped the C's win a championship and did his best in losing efforts for a few more.

The book sounds whiny but I've got nothing but respect for him and how he carried himself as a ball player.

I agree that Ray sacrificed the most and didn't complain at the time, and that he was always a professional (and my favorite player on the team). However, are you really that professional if, when you've retired, you start badmouthing your former teammates and complain about a lot of things that you didn't complain about at the time ? To me, that's kind of ruining everything you've accomplished during your career and were known for.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 28, 2018, 06:53:19 AM
Quote
However, are you really that professional if, when you've retired, you start badmouthing your former teammates and complain about a lot of things that you didn't complain about at the time ? To me, that's kind of ruining everything you've accomplished during your career and were known for

I thought Ray was a class act until he left here.   Then he revealed himself to be somewhat petty and very bitter human. 
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Big333223 on April 28, 2018, 01:26:38 PM
I know its popular to hate Ray but the truth is that of the 3 stars that won together in '08 he sacrificed the most. A lot of fan don't remember or just don't know how complete of an offensive player he was in Milwaukee and Seattle. He wasn't just the spot up shooter he became in Boston (and then moreso Miami) but he took his limited role and helped the C's win a championship and did his best in losing efforts for a few more.

The book sounds whiny but I've got nothing but respect for him and how he carried himself as a ball player.

I agree that Ray sacrificed the most and didn't complain at the time, and that he was always a professional (and my favorite player on the team). However, are you really that professional if, when you've retired, you start badmouthing your former teammates and complain about a lot of things that you didn't complain about at the time ? To me, that's kind of ruining everything you've accomplished during your career and were known for.

It feels petty but a little pettiness in his retirement does not, to my mind, ruin an entire career of great play.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: Alleyoopster on April 28, 2018, 05:02:58 PM
Not totally letting Ray off the hook for what he revealed, but his co-author, Michael Arkush, should shoulder some of the responsibility. He knew that controversy would sell more copies. More sales could lead to more athletes signing with him to write books in the future. The writer may have had a percentage of sales agreement. He may have tried to convince Ray that controversy is the way to go even though he knew that it might hurt him in the long run.

Also, it wasn't the author's reputation on the line. If it were, then maybe some things would not have come up. Ray definitely didn't get good advice about what he should have included or left out. Ultimately though, it was his choice.

If the author was purposely looking to create controversy...he succeeded. I wonder how much it helped book sales? My feeling is, it helped a lot. We are still talking about it. Thus, it's free publicity.

In any event, this book hasn't helped Ray's image with some of his former teammates and some Celtics fans. Personally, I still like Ray and what he did for our team. He always gave 100% on and off the court. His personal training regimen is legendary. Most importantly, he did his best to help the team win. With his balky ankle(s) he could have used injuries as an excuse to take a lot of time off. He didn't. He played through pain and kept himself in optimal shape to be on the court as much as possible. 

What is interesting is that we are learning that Championships are not always what we believe them to be, i.e., one big fun time for all. For example, we are finding that out about the Patriot's Super Bowl wins as well. As some former players are revealing what it was like to be on those teams.

One of Michael Arkush's books, 'Fight of the Century', is a revealing look at the behind the scenes drama of the Ali-Frasier fight in 1971. Thus, we find that Arkush is not one to back down from controversy.
Title: Re: Ray Allen - Book excerpts - merged thread
Post by: BudweiserCeltic on April 28, 2018, 06:06:23 PM
Quote
However, are you really that professional if, when you've retired, you start badmouthing your former teammates and complain about a lot of things that you didn't complain about at the time ? To me, that's kind of ruining everything you've accomplished during your career and were known for

I thought Ray was a class act until he left here.   Then he revealed himself to be somewhat petty and very bitter human. 

Agreed. Amusingly enough, he's still bewildered why many in the Boston community have lost the respect for him, then he goes on media tours like this and releasing books like this throwing mud around.