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Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Chris22 on February 10, 2018, 07:13:03 PM

Title: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 10, 2018, 07:13:03 PM
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

I really don't feel like Morris is helping the team.
He seems to be just a volume shooter who does not defend well.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: apc on February 10, 2018, 08:16:46 PM
He is a temp.
not here for the long run.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 10, 2018, 08:50:21 PM
He is a temp.
not here for the long run.

I feel he is hurting us now.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on February 10, 2018, 08:54:40 PM
He seems to have 2 differently modes.

In some games he’s the perfect bench spark, hitting threes and defending attentively.

Then for no reason in particular, he takes it upon himself to play like Kobe (without the freakish ability) on one end and Harden on the other.

Very polarising player
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: mctyson on February 10, 2018, 10:16:26 PM
He seems to have 2 differently modes.

In some games he’s the perfect bench spark, hitting threes and defending attentively.

Then for no reason in particular, he takes it upon himself to play like Kobe (without the freakish ability) on one end and Harden on the other.

Very polarising player

He was brought in to defend Lebron.  That is it.  He was the best in the NBA at it last year.  6'8", can move laterally and is strong/tough.

He is here for that.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 10, 2018, 10:43:16 PM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: KGs Knee on February 10, 2018, 11:15:09 PM
I feel like this article here should be required reading for anyone who references RPm when they talk about a player's abilities.

https://cornerthreehoops.wordpress.com/2014/04/17/explaining-espns-real-plus-minus/

Here's a small blurb from the article:

Quote
Real Plus-Minus is meant to be predictive. It’s interested in how well a player will perform in the future, rather than what he did in the past. RPM’s emphasis on prediction explains why it uses some of the tricks it does.

For instance, I mentioned earlier that RPM uses data from previous seasons in its priors. If my primary goal is to evaluate how well a player did this season, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to use data from other seasons. However, if I want to predict what will happen in the future, the older numbers can help me differentiate between players who have been consistently good (and will likely keep being good) and players who are merely going through a hot streak (and will likely regress to their mean).

This has a number of implications. One is that RPM tends to be skeptical of player improvements (or regressions) that exceed what is expected for a player that age. This season, Anthony Davis improved much faster than most 20-21 year old playes. People who watch basketball know that Davis is super talented and accelerated growth is expected from him. However, Real Plus-Minus doesn’t understand this and suspects that Davis’ numbers might be a random blip. As a result, Real Plus-Minus is liable to underestimate Davis’s impact this season9.

On a less technical note, RPM’s focus on prediction makes it a poor way to determine who should get end-of-season awards. I think this is an important point to emphasize because ESPN does exactly this in its introduction to RPM, using it to argue that Taj Gibson is a better candidate than Jamal Crawford for 6th Man of the Year. RPM is optimized to predict the future, not evaluate the past.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 11, 2018, 12:03:21 AM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Alleyoopster on February 11, 2018, 12:12:32 AM
I'm not watching every game. Seems to me, whenever I watch, he hits a lot of shots that keeps the momentum going for the Celtics. Guess I have to watch more games. Don't understand how he can rate anywhere near that low. If anything I would have expected him to be high on the list given how is used.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: RockinRyA on February 11, 2018, 12:14:16 AM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 11, 2018, 12:18:22 AM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

This is horribly fallacious reasoning.

RPM has been well-discussed here and elsewhere. Its flaws are not something one can dispute, unless you think Tyus Jones and Robert Covington are better than Lebron James, and those two plus Spencer Dinwiddie, Gary Harris and Fred Van Vleet are better than Kevin Durant.

Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 11, 2018, 12:18:24 AM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.

I disagree.

It's a good stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 11, 2018, 12:24:56 AM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

This is horribly fallacious reasoning.

RPM has been well-discussed here and elsewhere. Its flaws are not something one can dispute, unless you think Tyus Jones and Robert Covington are better than Lebron James, and those two plus Spencer Dinwiddie, Gary Harris and Fred Van Vleet are better than Kevin Durant.

It is a general stat to be sure, but I like it.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 11, 2018, 12:52:50 AM
Thus far, save for a few games MM has been so-so.   I hope he gets 100% which I think we have never seen, he was getting there then fell on his back.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 11, 2018, 09:45:23 PM
Morris is not very good.
I would rather give his minutes to Monroe or Theis.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: KGs Knee on February 11, 2018, 10:47:38 PM
Junk “stat”. The formula includes height, age, prior year statistics, etc.  It’s not really meant to measure day to day production, despite ESPN mispromoting it.

Not a junk stat, quite a good one.

Horford and Kyrie are the top two on our team in plus and minus.

Did you just not read all rebuttals above? It is a junk stat. Any stat that factors in your height and previous season's stats are thrash and cannot be relied upon.

I disagree.

It's a good stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court.

Except that RPM explicitly is not a "stat that reflects what we are seeing on the court".  It is a stat that attempts to predict what we will see on the court in the future.

If you want to defend RPM, and whether or not is a good stat, the least you could do is understand what it is and is not.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Evantime34 on February 11, 2018, 11:01:01 PM
I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: JBcat on February 11, 2018, 11:19:14 PM
I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. He’s not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it he’s still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. We’ll get Hayward back next season so I hope he’s traded in the offseason anyway.  He’s still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 11, 2018, 11:38:55 PM
I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

My question is why not play Theis, Baynes, or Monroe instead of Morris?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Tr1boy on February 11, 2018, 11:42:56 PM
Marcus is def the worse out of the Morris twins

Lazy player. Doesnt move enough at both ends
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: CelticsElite on February 12, 2018, 01:06:54 AM
I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. He’s not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it he’s still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. We’ll get Hayward back next season so I hope he’s traded in the offseason anyway.  He’s still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.
the problem is that we're the team that needs the veteran depth on a cheap contract
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Irish Stew on February 12, 2018, 01:54:31 AM
He is what he has been: a useful rotation player who is a starter for a weak or injured team. Next year, if he hasn't been traded in the offseason, he'll be a bench player with modest minutes and an expiring contract that could be used in a trade.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Beat LA on February 12, 2018, 02:01:51 AM
I like on/off number as a stat. In every metric the nba on/off advanced stats uses the Celtics are worse with Morris on the court than off the court.

In other words lineups with Morris, shoot worse, rebound worse, pass worse and turn the ball over more than lineups without Morris. Lineups with him in them have a worse defensive rating than lineups without him.

My eyes tell me the offense is worth because Morris kills ball movement, this leads to poorer shooting, and less assists. The worse defense doesn't really match the eye test because I think he's a pretty good on the ball defender, but maybe his poor rebounding at the 4 hurts defensive possessions.

I think Morris isn't good and the fact that Morris/Semi are our best small ball 4's really hurts our ability to play small.

I agree. He’s not a very good passer.  He does have some nice one on one ability but his shot seems too flat for me.  Maybe part of it he’s still somewhat injured as he seemed better last season. We’ll get Hayward back next season so I hope he’s traded in the offseason anyway.  He’s still a valuable trading piece for a team in need of veteran depth on a cheap contract.

Same here. While I do actually like his game, when he's out there with "Not Channing", Brown, and either Kyrie or Rozier, is there a worse passing 1-4 combination/lineup in the league?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: LilRip on February 12, 2018, 02:40:11 AM
I’d believe it.

I don’t know if he’s still injured or not but he hasn’t impressed me this year. When he’s on, it’s a blessing. God knows this team needs points. But when he’s not scoring, he’s a big negative for me. He’s a decent enough on-ball defender but seems to be a really poor help defender and rebounder.

This may be an unpopular take but I think we should try to pick up Frye (assuming he’s bought out) and play him over MM. Frye can’t manufacture points in ISO but he’s a deadeye shooter who can set decent enough screens. He’s not a great rebounder but is probably a bit better than Morris.

If Semi improves his shooting (not counting on it), that’d be huge for us IMO.
 
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 12, 2018, 06:28:26 AM
I actually thought he played decent yesterday at times.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: SHAQATTACK on February 12, 2018, 09:02:38 AM
Marcus is def the worse out of the Morris twins

Lazy player. Doesnt move enough at both ends

yup ....i always liked the other as better player ....may e its just me.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: TheBigTicket23 on February 12, 2018, 03:37:01 PM
His minutes should be cut. It really feels like he hurts this team... already said before he should be traded at the deadline, just before the deadline he had a couple of good games but now he is back to hurting us again.

Brad should see this pretty soon.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Vermont Green on February 12, 2018, 03:59:57 PM
I don't think Marcus Morris is our problem.  He has not been quite as good as I hoped but it seems his injury is holding him back some.  He has been pretty good in January and February.  I see him settling in as a bench role alongside Smart and Rozier and helping the team down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't know or care whether real plus minus is a good stat or not.  Morris is what he is.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Quetzalcoatl on February 12, 2018, 04:23:03 PM
He's also T-1st: Assaulting Potential Step-Fathers, so it kind of evens out.  I cut and pasted that straight from Basketball Reference
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Ogaju on February 12, 2018, 04:33:29 PM
Are there really 336 players in the NBA?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: JHTruth on February 12, 2018, 04:42:47 PM
It's easy to pick on Morris but the whole team has been more or less horrendous, especially on O since the beginning of the year. The C's are the 29th ranked offense in the league since Jan. 1. Right now they are simply atrocious on offense. Their D has been slipping noticeably as well.

Agreed that MM stinks out the joint right now, but he is far from alone..
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 12, 2018, 11:24:48 PM
It's easy to pick on Morris but the whole team has been more or less horrendous, especially on O since the beginning of the year. The C's are the 29th ranked offense in the league since Jan. 1. Right now they are simply atrocious on offense. Their D has been slipping noticeably as well.

Agreed that MM stinks out the joint right now, but he is far from alone..

If you look at his lifetime stats, this is pretty much who he is.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Somebody on February 13, 2018, 03:47:23 AM
Just don't start him again. Ever.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: GreenEnvy on February 13, 2018, 04:22:01 AM
Eye test says he usually plays with bench and nobody can score so he does what he can. Takes bad shots sometimes, makes bad shots sometimes. Turns ball over a little too much, looks a little uncomfortable in Brad’s system still. Defense can be very good when he wants it to be, which is only when he’s playing with starters.

I like that he’s capable of hitting tough/big shots and creating his own if he has to. I expect to see him as the primary LeBron defender and can defend him well enough. If we can avoid helping on him often and stay home of the rest of the team, Cavs are very beatable.

I want to see him and Monroe gel. That could be a nice duo. Rozier, Smart, and Theis around them? Let’s see what happens with that I guess.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: CelticsElite on February 13, 2018, 05:14:03 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 13, 2018, 09:28:07 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 13, 2018, 09:33:10 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 13, 2018, 10:16:13 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.

We won four games in a row when he was out.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Tr1boy on February 13, 2018, 10:19:01 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.

We won four games in a row when he was out.

Bad trade

His brother is a better player

Marcus is a tweener in bad way. Cant rebound, block shots.  Doesnt stop shooting with a hand in his face. Lazy defender
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Evantime34 on February 13, 2018, 10:53:42 AM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.
Yet Rozier, Smart, and Theis all have better on/off offensive rating than Morris. I don't agree with the argument that he's hurt by playing with the bench unit, because they all perform better in lineups without him.

He's the focal point of the second unit and the second unit plays better when someone else is the focal point.

As an aside, does anyone know how to find lineup data of lineups with Morris and without Morris? I.E if you replace Morris with someone else does the lineup get better or worse?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 13, 2018, 12:49:57 PM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.

We won four games in a row when he was out.

Bad trade

His brother is a better player

Marcus is a tweener in bad way. Cant rebound, block shots.  Doesnt stop shooting with a hand in his face. Lazy defender

Bingo. TP
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Smitty77 on February 13, 2018, 01:21:56 PM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.

He also plays a LOT more minutes than almost everyone not named Smart!!

Smitty77
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 13, 2018, 01:24:25 PM
Stat isn't totally fair because he plays with bench that tends to give up 20 pt + holes into half time

He's one of the big reasons for the 20 pt holes.

He leads the bench in scoring, FTAs and rebounding, and is more efficient than the majority of the bench. He’s an odd scapegoat to pick.

He also plays a LOT more minutes than almost everyone not named Smart!!

Smitty77

He’s essentially tied with Rozier in minutes.

Which makes sense. The best players get the most minutes.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 13, 2018, 01:30:56 PM
Morris is the quintessential slightly-below-replacement-level 7th/8th man, which is how he's always performed, and how he's playing this year.

I'm not sure why his performance merits much discussion.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 13, 2018, 07:51:31 PM
Morris is the quintessential slightly-below-replacement-level 7th/8th man, which is how he's always performed, and how he's playing this year.

I'm not sure why his performance merits much discussion.

Because the team plays better without him.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: nickagneta on February 13, 2018, 09:22:38 PM
The following players have net on/off numbers worse than Morris:

Theis
Ojeleye
Nader
Yabusele

So if you are going to sit Morris cause he sucks, who do you want replacing him? Players that have worse on/off net numbers? None of which are even okay offensive players?

Morris is what he is, a decent 7th or 8th guy in the rotation. Nothing wrong with that?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 13, 2018, 09:26:51 PM
The following players have net on/off numbers than Morris:

Theis
Ojeleye
Nader
Yabusele

So if you are going to sit Morris cause he sucks, who do you want replacing him? Players that have worse on/off net numbers? None of which are even okay offensive players?

Morris is what he is, a decent 7th or 8th guy in the rotation. Nothing wrong with that?

We played better when he was hurt.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 13, 2018, 10:00:01 PM
The following players have net on/off numbers than Morris:

Theis
Ojeleye
Nader
Yabusele

So if you are going to sit Morris cause he sucks, who do you want replacing him? Players that have worse on/off net numbers? None of which are even okay offensive players?

Morris is what he is, a decent 7th or 8th guy in the rotation. Nothing wrong with that?

We played better when he was hurt.

The team also played better when Terry Rozier’s offensive game was crud. Does that mean we’d be better if Rozier went back to laying bricks?
Title: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 15, 2018, 01:19:37 AM
Morris is now 382th in the league in real plus and minus.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/10/sort/RPM

We play better without him.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: saltlover on February 15, 2018, 01:25:11 AM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 15, 2018, 01:37:59 AM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: saltlover on February 15, 2018, 01:47:31 AM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

So edit the title of the thread, now that it’s been merged.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 06:02:53 AM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 15, 2018, 07:19:40 AM
Morris is now 382th in the league in real plus and minus.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/10/sort/RPM

We play better without him.

Not this again.

For amusement purposes, however, it is worth nothing that Morris is higher on the list than Jae Crowder, Avery Bradley and Isaiah Thomas.

Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 15, 2018, 06:26:41 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Atzar on February 15, 2018, 06:52:14 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.

Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on February 15, 2018, 08:07:06 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.
Rofl, /thread right here.

I'm not a big Morris fan all the time (sometimes he's great), but to argue he's the 382nd best player in the NBA is laughable
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 15, 2018, 08:12:32 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.
Rofl, /thread right here.

I'm not a big Morris fan all the time (sometimes he's great), but to argue he's the 382nd best player in the NBA is laughable

Not the point. He plays, we lose.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Celtics4ever on February 15, 2018, 08:30:22 PM
I think Morris has looked like he is finally getting his legs back and seems to be improving.

Quote
Not the point. He plays, we lose.

I bet if I look at his DNPs that we have a few loses there, too.  Your points in this thread are not convincing and don't quit your day job to become a coach...JK
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on February 15, 2018, 08:40:42 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.
Rofl, /thread right here.

I'm not a big Morris fan all the time (sometimes he's great), but to argue he's the 382nd best player in the NBA is laughable

Not the point. He plays, we lose.

The team plays at a .714 win percentage when Kyrie plays between 0 and 2 minutes. That’s better than the team’s overall winning percentage.

I assume Kyrie is holding us back?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on February 15, 2018, 09:48:11 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.
Rofl, /thread right here.

I'm not a big Morris fan all the time (sometimes he's great), but to argue he's the 382nd best player in the NBA is laughable

Not the point. He plays, we lose.

"Not the point." Are you aware that you started the thread and put that very point in the title?

Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on February 15, 2018, 10:53:33 PM
You already started this thread over the weekend.  No need to be redundant.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0 (http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=95381.0)

Not redundant. He went lower.
Now he is 382th in the league.

Morris had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, shot 4-8 (3-4 3PT) and was second on the team in +/- (+2).

How was he the problem?

One game. Most of the time he is a volume shooter who doesn't defend.

Explain to me why you’re clinging to a stat that thinks Otto Porter, Tyus Jones, David West, Robert Covington, and Fred VanVleet are top 20 players and Kevin Durant is not.
Rofl, /thread right here.

I'm not a big Morris fan all the time (sometimes he's great), but to argue he's the 382nd best player in the NBA is laughable

Not the point. He plays, we lose.

"Not the point." Are you aware that you started the thread and put that very point in the title?

The point is we lose when he plays.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: nickagneta on February 15, 2018, 11:19:12 PM
The team is 22-13 when he plays. That's 63% winning. That's equivalent to a 52 win team if he played every game.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Beat LA on February 16, 2018, 12:32:12 AM
The team is 22-13 when he plays. That's 63% winning. That's equivalent to a 52 win team if he played every game.

Plus, aside from Smart, I guess, Morris seems to be the only guy who really brings any toughness to our team, but I'm probably wrong. I know that everyone hated him in the starting lineup, but as I wasn't watching enough of those games, what was the reasoning behind this school of thought? Was it a matter of defense, effort, lack of passing, not being 100%, some combination, etc.? I just always thought that he was going to be the starter at the 4, and then Hayward went down, so yeah...

I'll give the guy credit, though - he certainly seems to play his best against Lebron and the Warriors and will definitely take and make the big shot. I don't like him as a person, but it's nice to have someone else who can create their own offense. I just wish that he could pass. Like at all. I mean, when he's out there with "Not Channing", Brown, and some combination of Kyrie and Rozier, is there a worse passing 1-4 assemblage/combination/lineup in the league?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: MJohnnyboy on February 16, 2018, 12:59:25 AM
The team is 22-13 when he plays. That's 63% winning. That's equivalent to a 52 win team if he played every game.

Plus, aside from Smart, I guess, Morris seems to be the only guy who really brings any toughness to our team, but I'm probably wrong. I know that everyone hated him in the starting lineup, but as I wasn't watching enough of those games, what was the reasoning behind this school of thought? Was it a matter of defense, effort, lack of passing, not being 100%, some combination, etc.? I just always thought that he was going to be the starter at the 4, and then Hayward went down, so yeah...

I'll give the guy credit, though - he certainly seems to play his best against Lebron and the Warriors and will definitely take and make the big shot. I don't like him as a person, but it's nice to have someone else who can create their own offense. I just wish that he could pass. Like at all. I mean, when he's out there with "Not Channing", Brown, and some combination of Kyrie and Rozier, is there a worse passing 1-4 assemblage/combination/lineup in the league?

The starting lineup's defense was much better with Baynes than with Morris if I recall.

I honestly like Morris and thought a lot of why he may be pretty far down has been the injuries. He was starting to look fantastic before the "hip" injury. Here's to hoping he'll be good to go when it really counts.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Beat LA on February 16, 2018, 02:25:38 AM
The team is 22-13 when he plays. That's 63% winning. That's equivalent to a 52 win team if he played every game.

Plus, aside from Smart, I guess, Morris seems to be the only guy who really brings any toughness to our team, but I'm probably wrong. I know that everyone hated him in the starting lineup, but as I wasn't watching enough of those games, what was the reasoning behind this school of thought? Was it a matter of defense, effort, lack of passing, not being 100%, some combination, etc.? I just always thought that he was going to be the starter at the 4, and then Hayward went down, so yeah...

I'll give the guy credit, though - he certainly seems to play his best against Lebron and the Warriors and will definitely take and make the big shot. I don't like him as a person, but it's nice to have someone else who can create their own offense. I just wish that he could pass. Like at all. I mean, when he's out there with "Not Channing", Brown, and some combination of Kyrie and Rozier, is there a worse passing 1-4 assemblage/combination/lineup in the league?

The starting lineup's defense was much better with Baynes than with Morris if I recall.

I honestly like Morris and thought a lot of why he may be pretty far down has been the injuries. He was starting to look fantastic before the "hip" injury. Here's to hoping he'll be good to go when it really counts.

Yeah, I assumed as much regarding the team's defense, but I just thought that I'd ask, anyway, so TP :), and yeah, let's hope that he, along with everyone else, rounds into form by the start of the postseason.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 14, 2018, 10:47:24 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: MJohnnyboy on March 14, 2018, 11:33:35 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

Higher than Avery Bradley
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on March 15, 2018, 12:20:55 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 15, 2018, 12:53:01 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.

And yet, he was the best Celtic on the floor, one bad defensive play notwithstanding.

Tatum, on the other hand, was +14, and he had a very mediocre game.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: ozgod on March 15, 2018, 01:28:52 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.

And yet, he was the best Celtic on the floor, one bad defensive play notwithstanding.

Tatum, on the other hand, was +14, and he had a very mediocre game.

A good example of why statistics should be taken with a grain of salt, particularly over the course of a single game.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: nickagneta on March 15, 2018, 01:28:53 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.

And yet, he was the best Celtic on the floor, one bad defensive play notwithstanding.

Tatum, on the other hand, was +14, and he had a very mediocre game.
Is there a stat for Tatum for the most missed opportunities to win a game. I think poor Tatum had the chance to end it like 3-4 times tonight and didn't succeed on any of them.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Rondo9 on March 15, 2018, 02:13:16 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.

And yet, he was the best Celtic on the floor, one bad defensive play notwithstanding.

Tatum, on the other hand, was +14, and he had a very mediocre game.
Is there a stat for Tatum for the most missed opportunities to win a game. I think poor Tatum had the chance to end it like 3-4 times tonight and didn't succeed on any of them.

Is it time to declare Tatum a bust now?  ;)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Celtics4ever on March 15, 2018, 02:30:48 AM
Quote
Is it time to declare Tatum a bust now

Very funny, I think I am getting closer to declaring the dancing bear to one though JK.   Certainly looking more like Ainge over reached with that pick.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Androslav on March 15, 2018, 03:14:53 AM
What is Marcus Morris's rank in unreal plus/minus?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on March 15, 2018, 06:29:02 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

In terms of actual plus/minus, he was a -13 tonight in 44 minutes. So when he was off the floor we outscored the Wizards by +12 points in 9 minutes.

And yet, he was the best Celtic on the floor, one bad defensive play notwithstanding.

Tatum, on the other hand, was +14, and he had a very mediocre game.
Is there a stat for Tatum for the most missed opportunities to win a game. I think poor Tatum had the chance to end it like 3-4 times tonight and didn't succeed on any of them.

Is it time to declare Tatum a bust now?  ;)

Bust. Ship the bum out.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on March 15, 2018, 09:02:07 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 15, 2018, 09:03:11 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: IDreamCeltics on March 15, 2018, 11:01:57 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

The best player on the floor left Jodie Meeks wide open from 3 to at the end of regulation to defend a 2 point shot that had would have had no impact on the game.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: chilidawg on March 15, 2018, 11:05:01 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

Best scorer does not mean best player.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 15, 2018, 11:06:59 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

The best player on the floor left Jodie Meeks wide open from 3 to at the end of regulation to defend a 2 point shot that had would have had no impact on the game.

Was there a player last night that didn’t make a mistake?

If Brad intentionally fouls there, we win. Does that suggest he sucks as a coach?

Think about where the team would have been without Morris’ 31 / 9 last night.

Quote
Best scorer does not mean best player.

But in this case it does.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on March 15, 2018, 11:26:54 AM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

Best scorer does not mean best player.

Bingo.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Ilikesports17 on March 15, 2018, 12:01:35 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

Best scorer does not mean best player.
At the very worst he was our 2nd best player last night.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Donoghus on March 15, 2018, 12:22:20 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

329. 
Morris was a minus 13 last night.
Monroe was a plus 17, so Brad played Baynes more.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/9/sort/RPM

-13, and our best player on the floor.

Best scorer does not mean best player.
At the very worst he was our 2nd best player last night.

Exactly.  I mean, who else is in the conversation?  Tatum? Terry?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: kozlodoev on March 15, 2018, 12:24:47 PM
The best player on the floor left Jodie Meeks wide open from 3 to at the end of regulation to defend a 2 point shot that had would have had no impact on the game.

Was there a player last night that didn’t make a mistake?

If Brad intentionally fouls there, we win. Does that suggest he sucks as a coach?
I didn't understand how we defended that sequence, and I think it's on the coach that he didn't correct it. There's was no reason to go into a soft zone and guard the middle. Did Brad not tell them no open threes? Were they not aware they were up by 3? Or what the game clock/timeout situation was?

Even if they take and make a quick layup, we still have a pretty good chance to run away with the game. Just frustrating all around.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 20, 2018, 10:34:44 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

How about now?

 8)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on March 20, 2018, 10:36:25 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

How about now?

 8)

I think he's #1 right now.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on March 24, 2018, 01:28:34 AM
Bradley trade not looking bad after all! ;D
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: colincb on March 24, 2018, 04:02:32 AM
Kelly O is 27th in RPM. I'll never forgive Danny.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: mgent on March 24, 2018, 03:06:34 PM
Where does he rank now?

 ;)

How about now?

 8)

Edge of our seats waiting to see where Roy goes next.  Is it the right time to whip out the tongue?

Or play it safe with a  :o or a  :angel: so there's still room to move up when Morris drops 40 next week?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: KGs Knee on March 24, 2018, 03:41:06 PM
Overall, I've still been a bit disappointed in Morris this season, as for most of the year he has been doo doo. But he has turned it around lately and had some excellent performances, reminding us all of the player he can be when he's at his best.

My issue with the original premise of this thread was never really about whether or not Morris was good or bad, but with the idea that RPM is a good measure of performance. It simply is not, because it isn't a measure of performance at all. It is prediction model, intended to tell us who will be the most impactful players going forward.

I just wish more people actually understood what RPM is, and get tired of seeing it incorrectly used in analyzing players.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: keevsnick on March 24, 2018, 06:31:12 PM
Overall, I've still been a bit disappointed in Morris this season, as for most of the year he has been doo doo. But he has turned it around lately and had some excellent performances, reminding us all of the player he can be when he's at his best.

My issue with the original premise of this thread was never really about whether or not Morris was good or bad, but with the idea that RPM is a good measure of performance. It simply is not, because it isn't a measure of performance at all. It is prediction model, intended to tell us who will be the most impactful players going forward.

I just wish more people actually understood what RPM is, and get tired of seeing it incorrectly used in analyzing players.

Ya RPM isnt perfect, but saying its merely meant to be predictive and is in no way representative of the season someone is having is wrong. The data going in is based on the performance from that season, the better a guy played that year the better the RPM will be. There are corrections made to that data with things like age, past seasons performance, ect, in order to tell how real the performance might be but its still useful for seeing a how a guy generally performed that year. What you shouldn't do is worry too much about the exact number, rather look more at the company a player keeps and as always look at a varíety of stats to form an opinion.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: KGs Knee on March 24, 2018, 06:47:00 PM
Overall, I've still been a bit disappointed in Morris this season, as for most of the year he has been doo doo. But he has turned it around lately and had some excellent performances, reminding us all of the player he can be when he's at his best.

My issue with the original premise of this thread was never really about whether or not Morris was good or bad, but with the idea that RPM is a good measure of performance. It simply is not, because it isn't a measure of performance at all. It is prediction model, intended to tell us who will be the most impactful players going forward.

I just wish more people actually understood what RPM is, and get tired of seeing it incorrectly used in analyzing players.

Ya RPM isnt perfect, but saying its merely meant to be predictive and is in no way representative of the season someone is having is wrong. The data going in is based on the performance from that season, the better a guy played that year the better the RPM will be. There are corrections made to that data with things like age, past seasons performance, ect, in order to tell how real the performance might be but its still useful for seeing a how a guy generally performed that year. What you shouldn't do is worry too much about the exact number, rather look more at the company a player keeps and as always look at a varíety of stats to form an opinion.


But it is strictly meant to be predictive, that is the point of a predictive statistic. Otherwise it would be a descriptive statistic. But descriptive statistics, by definition, do not include anything but measures of past events.

I mean, sure, the better you play, the more likely it is you will have a good RPM ranking, that's just common sense.  But the point is, it's not a given and your RPM ranking relies on a great many other things besides just your performance.

In other words, it is not a direct measure of your play, period. It is a prediction model based partly on your play, and partly on other factors that have nothing to do with your play.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on March 24, 2018, 10:58:36 PM
Bradley trade not looking bad after all! ;D

Not at all.

If you start with the idea that the trade was made to shed salary so that Hayward could be signed, it's reasonable to think that the trade was still ok even if Morris had a lesser season than Avery Brady has had. But after missing games early and playing his way back into shape, Morris is averaging 13.3 points on .504 eFG%, 5.5 rebounds per game, solid defense and only 1.1 TO in 26.5 mpg over the year. And in these games without Kyrie, he has stepped up big time as an offensive leader.

Bradley, after 40 games with Detroit, averaged 15 ppg on .473 eFG% and then was traded to the Clippers for 6 games before having to have surgery. Avery is going to want to be paid this summer, Morris is on a sweetheart $5.3 mil deal next year.

Morris has definitely been streaky, no question, but has he had a better year than Avery Bradley? I'd say yes.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 31, 2018, 09:51:24 PM
Now?  😏
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on March 31, 2018, 10:31:20 PM
March has really made this thread seem quite dated
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 31, 2018, 10:47:59 PM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on March 31, 2018, 11:04:51 PM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)

The ejection was an absolute joke.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on March 31, 2018, 11:12:58 PM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)

The ejection was an absolute joke.

Looks like it.  He literally just said "drop it" to Ibaka, and they were clearly separated when the ref made the call.  Some Celtic discrimination right there.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Mlewis1392 on March 31, 2018, 11:18:14 PM
They were still jawing. Ref was trying to avoid an altercation id rather that ejection than a suspension if it escalated into something.. especially with Mooks background the man doesn't take anything im glad hes in our  fox hole
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: fairweatherfan on March 31, 2018, 11:32:33 PM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)

The ejection was an absolute joke.

Looks like it.  He literally just said "drop it" to Ibaka, and they were clearly separated when the ref made the call.  Some Celtic discrimination right there.

In decided games refs will often have a super quick hook to avoid a bigger altercation. They do it knowing the league will rescind it. Unless we missed something pretty big that's about the only excuse I can make for that ejection.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on March 31, 2018, 11:38:42 PM
March has really made this thread seem quite dated

Correct.

He is playing better, and he has moved up to 310th in the league.

Nice job, Marcus!
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: bdm860 on March 31, 2018, 11:45:47 PM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)

The ejection was an absolute joke.

Looks like it.  He literally just said "drop it" to Ibaka, and they were clearly separated when the ref made the call.  Some Celtic discrimination right there.

In decided games refs will often have a super quick hook to avoid a bigger altercation. They do it knowing the league will rescind it. Unless we missed something pretty big that's about the only excuse I can make for that ejection.

Malice in the Palace being the perfect example.

They said if Joey Crawford was reffing that game, that whole brawl never would have happened, because he would have ejected guys before it got out of hand.

Quick whistle is okay here.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on April 01, 2018, 12:07:01 AM
Morris may be swishin' and dishin', but this is unacceptable:

Quote from: thescore
Celtics' Morris gets tossed, slaps ref's rear end on way out

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334 (https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1517334)

The ejection was an absolute joke.

Looks like it.  He literally just said "drop it" to Ibaka, and they were clearly separated when the ref made the call.  Some Celtic discrimination right there.

In decided games refs will often have a super quick hook to avoid a bigger altercation. They do it knowing the league will rescind it. Unless we missed something pretty big that's about the only excuse I can make for that ejection.

Malice in the Palace being the perfect example.

They said if Joey Crawford was reffing that game, that whole brawl never would have happened, because he would have ejected guys before it got out of hand.

Quick whistle is okay here.

I didn't know they were often rescinded, which is fine.  Seemed excessive when they were well-separated, 10 seconds left, and no one seemed particularly elevated. 

Interesting tidbit, hadn't heard that before.  Not sure the SEALS could've stopped Malice in the Palace from happening, though.  Unprecedented number of dysregulated dudes in that game.  I guess it's also possible that Donaghy bet on an altercation that game.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Phantom255x on April 17, 2018, 10:26:22 PM
MArcUs MoRRis IS 382Th iN thE lEagUE iN rEAl plUS aNd mINUs :laugh:
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on April 17, 2018, 10:30:35 PM
The thread that keeps on giving
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 17, 2018, 10:31:08 PM
Clutch!!!!  :)
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Ogaju on April 17, 2018, 10:32:28 PM
Who is the Einstein that started this thread?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Phantom255x on April 17, 2018, 10:33:27 PM
Who is the Einstein that started this thread?

This was the OP.

Quote
I really don't feel like Morris is helping the team.
He seems to be just a volume shooter who does not defend well.

LOL  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Ogaju on April 17, 2018, 10:34:48 PM
Who is the Einstein that started this thread?

This was the OP.

Quote
I really don't feel like Morris is helping the team.
He seems to be just a volume shooter who does not defend well.

LOL  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh ..lol
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: moiso on April 17, 2018, 11:01:51 PM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 17, 2018, 11:08:01 PM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

Wasn’t he battling nagging injuries in and out of the lineup? Also had that court case before the season, new team
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on April 18, 2018, 06:26:31 AM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

I think he looked fine for most of the season, especially once he got healthy.  For instance, in January he averaged 13 / 6 with a .556 TS%. Since this thread was started in early February, it has always seemed to ignore a bit of reality from my perspective.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Celtics4ever on April 18, 2018, 06:42:45 AM
Pretty clear now he was hurt earlier in the year with the nagging knee injury.  Once that got better he has been a good player for us.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Green-18 on April 18, 2018, 07:49:36 AM
Pretty clear now he was hurt earlier in the year with the nagging knee injury.  Once that got better he has been a good player for us.

His PER 36 scoring really puts some perspective on awesome he has been for the past few months.  From March until the end of the season Morris averaged 20 points per 36 minutes on solid efficiency.  Overall his average was 18 PER 36 for the entire season.  For comparisons sake no player other than IT has accomplished this under Stevens over the past 4 seasons.  It says a lot about Brad's faith in Morris to even allow him to shoot at such high volume.

I can't help but be reminded by Paul Pierce when I watch Morris in isolation.  He takes his time and has no problems getting off his shot against tough defense.  Obviously he is nowhere near Pierce as a ball handler, play maker, or driver.  Still, it's no exaggeration to say that his shot making ability has been reminiscent of "The Truth" for the past 2+ months.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: kozlodoev on April 18, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

I think he looked fine for most of the season, especially once he got healthy.  For instance, in January he averaged 13 / 6 with a .556 TS%. Since this thread was started in early February, it has always seemed to ignore a bit of reality from my perspective.
But the 13/6 Morris is what he has been over his career so far...
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Roy H. on April 18, 2018, 08:26:06 AM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

I think he looked fine for most of the season, especially once he got healthy.  For instance, in January he averaged 13 / 6 with a .556 TS%. Since this thread was started in early February, it has always seemed to ignore a bit of reality from my perspective.
But the 13/6 Morris is what he has been over his career so far...

It is. And 13/6 Morris is a really good player to have on your bench or as a part-time 5th starter.  I don’t understand those fans that don’t appreciate him.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Sophomore on April 18, 2018, 08:55:25 AM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

I think he looked fine for most of the season, especially once he got healthy.  For instance, in January he averaged 13 / 6 with a .556 TS%. Since this thread was started in early February, it has always seemed to ignore a bit of reality from my perspective.
But the 13/6 Morris is what he has been over his career so far...

It is. And 13/6 Morris is a really good player to have on your bench or as a part-time 5th starter.  I don’t understand those fans that don’t appreciate him.

Absolutely. Especially when he's also a willing, versatile defender and sparkplug. Sometimes he goes over the line, but mostly I count on units he's playing on to fight hard.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: tonydelk on April 18, 2018, 09:05:09 AM
I think this was an early season aberration.  Morris is vital to this team and the 2nd unit.  There have been a lot of times he bails us out when the sets don't produce anything.  He's a bargain at 5m and has been a great replacement for Avery.  I'm shocked that came out of my mouth because I loved Avery.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on April 18, 2018, 11:21:20 AM
Sports are truly as much mental as physical.

Morris is almost never the best player on the floor in an NBA game but he fears no one and always plays hard on both ends. He's in a position to be very effective right now and he's shining. So nice to see.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: kozlodoev on April 18, 2018, 11:24:57 AM
To be fair Morris is like 4x the player he was a couple months ago.  I didn’t like him either when the thread was started.  Now he looks awesome!

I think he looked fine for most of the season, especially once he got healthy.  For instance, in January he averaged 13 / 6 with a .556 TS%. Since this thread was started in early February, it has always seemed to ignore a bit of reality from my perspective.
But the 13/6 Morris is what he has been over his career so far...

It is. And 13/6 Morris is a really good player to have on your bench or as a part-time 5th starter.  I don’t understand those fans that don’t appreciate him.
All I'm saying is that what we observed in the second half of the season wasn't just returning to his usual level of production, it was a qualitative step up. Given that his long track record of, well, being a 13/6 guy that's "just decent", I'd be a bit wary of expecting the step up is going to last. But who knows, it might.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Vermont Green on April 18, 2018, 12:25:39 PM
I don't think Marcus Morris is our problem.  He has not been quite as good as I hoped but it seems his injury is holding him back some.  He has been pretty good in January and February.  I see him settling in as a bench role alongside Smart and Rozier and helping the team down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't know or care whether real plus minus is a good stat or not.  Morris is what he is.

I wanted to go back and see what I had said on this topic.  For me, I trust what I see on the court much more than stats.  Stats are part of the picture also of course but only in the context of the actual play.

For most of the season, Morris was less than I expected but I still liked him.  Down the stretch and in the playoffs, he has been better than I expected.  I thought he would be a start but Stevens has found a nice role for him off the bench with him playing to close out the game.

He has assumed a real important veteran presence helping to stabilize an otherwise pretty young team.  He was a great find by Ainge.  We had to trade Bradley to clear space for Hayward.  Under those circumstances, this was a great trade.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 336th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: tonydelk on April 18, 2018, 12:46:59 PM
I don't think Marcus Morris is our problem.  He has not been quite as good as I hoped but it seems his injury is holding him back some.  He has been pretty good in January and February.  I see him settling in as a bench role alongside Smart and Rozier and helping the team down the stretch and in the playoffs.

I don't know or care whether real plus minus is a good stat or not.  Morris is what he is.

I wanted to go back and see what I had said on this topic.  For me, I trust what I see on the court much more than stats.  Stats are part of the picture also of course but only in the context of the actual play.

For most of the season, Morris was less than I expected but I still liked him.  Down the stretch and in the playoffs, he has been better than I expected.  I thought he would be a start but Stevens has found a nice role for him off the bench with him playing to close out the game.

He has assumed a real important veteran presence helping to stabilize an otherwise pretty young team.  He was a great find by Ainge.  We had to trade Bradley to clear space for Hayward.  Under those circumstances, this was a great trade.

Agreed.  I didn't expect this production when the trade happened.  I thought he was a guy for the 2nd unit.  He's a much better scorer then I imagined and he's bailed the C's out and hit tough shots down the stretch.  Good defensive player and I'm happy he's on this team.  He fits the identity and mentality of a hard working next man up player. 
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on April 18, 2018, 03:34:08 PM
There have been a lot of times he bails us out when the sets don't produce anything.

Yep! Some of the contested shots he has made against MIL have been ridiculous!
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on April 18, 2018, 03:44:20 PM
Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony.

Let that sink in.

Now, before you respond, look at the numbers of each.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1_select=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1=anthoca01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Every number per36 is higher other than blocks. He is more efficient. His shooting percentages are better. He is a better rebounder. He has few fouls. He is a better passer.

His offensive rating is better. His defensive rating is better. His free throw rate is better.

Now consider Morris' one-on-one defense against elite forwards like Giannis, Lebron, Simmons, and Durant. Now consider Morris' contract.

Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony. Marcus Morris is coming off our bench.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 10, 2018, 10:06:00 PM
Hope he plays well vs. LeBron
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on May 10, 2018, 10:08:46 PM
Every time this thread pops up I get annoyed at “382th”
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 10, 2018, 10:17:24 PM
Every time this thread pops up I get annoyed at “382th”

Why?
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Monkhouse on May 10, 2018, 10:18:57 PM
Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony.

Let that sink in.

Now, before you respond, look at the numbers of each.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1_select=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1=anthoca01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Every number per36 is higher other than blocks. He is more efficient. His shooting percentages are better. He is a better rebounder. He has few fouls. He is a better passer.

His offensive rating is better. His defensive rating is better. His free throw rate is better.

Now consider Morris' one-on-one defense against elite forwards like Giannis, Lebron, Simmons, and Durant. Now consider Morris' contract.

Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony. Marcus Morris is coming off our bench.

Huge supporter of Carmelo, but agree not to mention he's getting paid 28 mil. Yikes. OKC really shot themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Boris Badenov on May 10, 2018, 10:23:46 PM
Every time this thread pops up I get annoyed at “382th”

Me too. But in fairness to the OP, the number was different at the beginning of the thread, so it was "336th."

Now, why the OP saw fit to change the number without changing the ordinal indicator is its own puzzle.

(Yes, I looked up the correct term, and it is "ordinal indicator.")
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: moiso on May 10, 2018, 10:41:59 PM
Morris seemed horrible in the Sixers series.  He was an inaccurate gunner.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 11, 2018, 05:31:25 PM
Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony.

Let that sink in.

Now, before you respond, look at the numbers of each.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1_select=Carmelo+Anthony&player_id1=anthoca01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2018&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

Every number per36 is higher other than blocks. He is more efficient. His shooting percentages are better. He is a better rebounder. He has few fouls. He is a better passer.

His offensive rating is better. His defensive rating is better. His free throw rate is better.

Now consider Morris' one-on-one defense against elite forwards like Giannis, Lebron, Simmons, and Durant. Now consider Morris' contract.

Marcus Morris is better than Carmelo Anthony. Marcus Morris is coming off our bench.

Huge supporter of Carmelo, but agree not to mention he's getting paid 28 mil. Yikes. OKC really shot themselves in the foot.

Yikes @ 28 M!!
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on May 11, 2018, 05:44:10 PM
Every time this thread pops up I get annoyed at “382th”

Me too. But in fairness to the OP, the number was different at the beginning of the thread, so it was "336th."

Now, why the OP saw fit to change the number without changing the ordinal indicator is its own puzzle.

(Yes, I looked up the correct term, and it is "ordinal indicator.")

TP for the research.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 13, 2018, 05:50:14 PM
OK Marcus
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: knuckleballer on May 13, 2018, 05:52:42 PM
His defense on Lebron more than makes up for all his bad shots all season.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: KGs Knee on May 13, 2018, 05:54:23 PM
But his RPM tho....
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 13, 2018, 06:35:15 PM
More games like today’s hopefully!  ;D
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: hwangjini_1 on May 13, 2018, 06:37:11 PM
His defense on Lebron more than makes up for all his bad shots all season.
today may have been the most complete and intelligent game i have seen him play as a celtic.

it is almost as if he learned to play CBS team ball in three days. let's hope he continues.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: SCeltic34 on May 13, 2018, 06:41:51 PM
His defense on Lebron more than makes up for all his bad shots all season.
today may have been the most complete and intelligent game i have seen him play as a celtic.

it is almost as if he learned to play CBS team ball in three days. let's hope he continues.

Yeah he was locked and loaded and ready to go.  He didn't try to overdo it on the offensive end and played within himself.  I think his mindset coming off the bench is a lot different - "I need to score for our team" kind of deal.  He knows his role in this series and today he played it to near perfection.  He did a great job keeping his head too after picking up two early fouls.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Chris22 on May 13, 2018, 06:43:51 PM
Great game by Morris. This is when we need him....against Queen James.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Big333223 on May 16, 2018, 09:26:59 AM
He actually got himself into trouble over passing of all things last night (the behind -the-back attempt to Horford). Not great shooting the ball but his physicality meant the world.
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Fafnir on May 16, 2018, 09:41:27 AM
Its pretty easy to insult a player without being sexist.

Morris was trash for most of the playoffs till this series, but he was pretty darn good for us once he got healthy for most of the year.

Reminding me of Sheed, hopefully Morris doesn't puke at halftime of a Finals game!
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Redz on May 16, 2018, 09:49:29 AM
His defense on Lebron more than makes up for all his bad shots all season.
today may have been the most complete and intelligent game i have seen him play as a celtic.

it is almost as if he learned to play CBS team ball in three days. let's hope he continues.

Yeah he was locked and loaded and ready to go.  He didn't try to overdo it on the offensive end and played within himself.  I think his mindset coming off the bench is a lot different - "I need to score for our team" kind of deal.  He knows his role in this series and today he played it to near perfection.  He did a great job keeping his head too after picking up two early fouls.

The defiant scream in Thompson’s face spoke volumes for Morris’s role in the Celtics ununtimidated attitude towards the Cavs. 
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: gouki88 on May 16, 2018, 09:59:32 AM
His defense on Lebron more than makes up for all his bad shots all season.
today may have been the most complete and intelligent game i have seen him play as a celtic.

it is almost as if he learned to play CBS team ball in three days. let's hope he continues.

Yeah he was locked and loaded and ready to go.  He didn't try to overdo it on the offensive end and played within himself.  I think his mindset coming off the bench is a lot different - "I need to score for our team" kind of deal.  He knows his role in this series and today he played it to near perfection.  He did a great job keeping his head too after picking up two early fouls.

The defiant scream in Thompson’s face spoke volumes for Morris’s role in the Celtics ununtimidated attitude towards the Cavs.
I absolutely love the fire and take no prisoners attitude he brings. Doesn't back down from the best in the world
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: Diggles on May 16, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
I think he was banged up too! 
Title: Re: Marcus Morris is 382th in the league in real plus and minus
Post by: rondofan1255 on May 25, 2018, 11:11:55 PM
Let's hope he plays well on Sunday!  :)