CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Phantom255x on January 23, 2018, 03:18:07 PM
-
Obviously you'd include more in the bigger package, like the Lakers/Kings Pick, maybe 1 or both of the 2019 Clippers and Grizzlies pick, and some salary (doesn't have to be Horford, fortunately). Now I'd hope any deal for Greek Freak means we keep Jaylen, but he may have to be in the package as well.
But while no one is untouchable, Tatum is about as close to untouchable as you can get, and most on here think there are ONLY 2, maybe 3 players you'd trade Tatum for in a package deal for another young superstar.
Would the Greek Freak be that guy, or one of those guys? Especially if things go even more sour in Milwaukee going forward?
Again, this is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL, but just wondering what people thought on this.
-
Yeah I would.
-
If it were Tatum, the Lakers pick, the Memphis pick, and Rozier or something like that....yeah I probably would. Probably
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
-
Thanks for the responses so far guys. TPs all around! I guess it is an interesting "debate"
Oh and I added a poll. ;D
-
Yes without question and I wouldn't give it a second thought.
-
rhe·tor·i·cal ques·tion
noun
a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.
"Would You Trade Tatum In Package For Greek Freak?"
Dude, obviously.
-
rhe·tor·i·cal ques·tion
noun
a question asked in order to create a dramatic effect or to make a point rather than to get an answer.
"Would You Trade Tatum In Package For Greek Freak?"
Dude, obviously.
I mean if you're super high on Tatum like I am, it wouldn't be an "obvious" decision tbh.
-
I voted no just because when you factor in salary discrepancy and just how much better Giannis is today than Tatum, the C's would have to gut the team to get him. I'd rather watch the Celtics grow the team they have and see how far they can get with this core than shuffle the deck again.
That's worth more to me than getting someone, even as good as Giannis right now. Unless, of course, there was some ludicrous deal on the table.
-
Depends on how high you think Tatum will end up being.
-
I voted no because of Irving and the team's system. Giannis is a legit top ten guy you want to build a system around though if you have no star currently. He's very much what LeBron is but less passing and a better attitude.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
-
100 % yes. I love Tatum, and think he will blossom into a superstar one day. Giannis is a superstar. He is a freak of nature.
Giannis is What? Barely 23? He is already a top 5 player, without having a consistent jump shot. As Shaq once put it "once he realizes the rules of basketball don't really apply to him, he will be unstoppable." In regards to size and coordination, Giannis is more of a unicorn than Kristaps is. He moves like a SG, but at 6'11 with atleast a 7'5 wingspan, he is bigger than most centers. Couple that with his ability to move with the ball, and you have something amazing.
If he ever gets a consistent (say even 35% 3 pt) jumpshot, he will have the skill set of a top 10 player to ever play the game. Combine that with his down to earth attitude, and you have a literally untradeable player. Oh and he plays in most of his games.
And none of this touches on the fact that he plays excellent defense.
-
The odds are heavily against Tatum ever becoming as good as Giannis. You definitely do this.
-
I voted no, Tatum is untouchable because he is on his rookie contract. He is the 3rd option in Boston and doing great. Give him the keys and he will equal Giannis without the big contract.
-
Of course you would.
Tatum might become great but a player like Giannis is a true rarity. IMO he's the type of player you'd bend over backwards to acquire.
If we had to do something like Tatum + Horford + Lakers Pick (or whatever coveted pick at the time) I think it would probably be a no brainer for Danny.
-
You have to make that deal. I love me some Tatum, but this is some "do we trade Al Jefferson for Kevin Garnett" level stuff.
Giannis is an MVP level player in his prime. Tatum is a really good prospect who might get there one day. You trade a prospect for a top-5 player in the league 100 times out of 100.
Tatum, Smart, Morris, Yabusele, LAL18 (let's say #4), two more 1st rounders... and MIL probably still says no.
Irving / Brown/ Hayward/ Giannis core would have a 5+ year window.
-
I am sure we would but they WOULD NOT!
-
I mean, you have to, right?
-
Yup. In a minute. But unless Giannis is making a complete mess of things for the Bucks with threats and demands of wanting out of Milwaukee, its not happening.
Feel the same way about Kawhi and San Antonio.
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
-
Yes. I would trade Tatum in a package for Giannis every time. We are talking about a 23 year old MVP candidate who is one of the bets defenders in the league. Tatum has been nice, but the chances he ever has a singe season as good as the one Giannis is having right now is very low. Thats before we even factor what his ceiling is to begin with, which is debatable. i view him as more like a paul george level guy if everything goes right, which is really good but easily worth giving up for Giannis.
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
I dont want to get off topic here but Jaylen Brown in his time in the league has dunked over Lebron, clapped in Currys face, flexed on Cousins and blew kisses at the 76ers bench. I think he has plenty of killer instinct.
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
I dont want to get off topic here but Jaylen Brown in his time in the league has dunked over Lebron, clapped in Currys face, flexed on Cousins and blew kisses at the 76ers bench. I think he has plenty of killer instinct.
And yet he's shooting well under league average in FGs % both 0-3 ft and 3-10 ft from rim. For someone as athletic as him, that's a red flag. I'm not talking about attitude. Lance Stephenson does that garbage as well. I'm talking about I have the ball and I'm going to take it down your throat.
I'm sorry to blow the dreams of all, but he's a very average offensive player so far. I'm seeing very little signs of superstar. I'd trade him in the package because some GM might be fooled in thinking he's a franchise player based on the handful of amazing plays he's done. He needs much more consistency to convince me.
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
I dont want to get off topic here but Jaylen Brown in his time in the league has dunked over Lebron, clapped in Currys face, flexed on Cousins and blew kisses at the 76ers bench. I think he has plenty of killer instinct.
And yet he's shooting well under league average in FGs % both 0-3 ft and 3-10 ft from rim. For someone as athletic as him, that's a red flag. I'm not talking about attitude. Lance Stephenson does that garbage as well. I'm talking about I have the ball and I'm going to take it down your throat.
I'm sorry to blow the dreams of all, but he's a very average offensive player so far. I'm seeing very little signs of superstar. I'd trade him in the package because some GM might be fooled in thinking he's a franchise player based on the handful of amazing plays he's done. He needs much more consistency to convince me.
Signs of superstar is really too high a bar to be fair when analyzing Jaylen Brown. It's hard for me to look at a 21 yo who is averaging 14 ppg, has shown significant improvement from year 1 to year 2 and appears to have a very high defensive ceiling and not think he has all-star potential (which is a fairer bar).
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
I dont want to get off topic here but Jaylen Brown in his time in the league has dunked over Lebron, clapped in Currys face, flexed on Cousins and blew kisses at the 76ers bench. I think he has plenty of killer instinct.
And yet he's shooting well under league average in FGs % both 0-3 ft and 3-10 ft from rim. For someone as athletic as him, that's a red flag. I'm not talking about attitude. Lance Stephenson does that garbage as well. I'm talking about I have the ball and I'm going to take it down your throat.
I'm sorry to blow the dreams of all, but he's a very average offensive player so far. I'm seeing very little signs of superstar. I'd trade him in the package because some GM might be fooled in thinking he's a franchise player based on the handful of amazing plays he's done. He needs much more consistency to convince me.
He's shooting 63% from 0-3 feet, 26% from 3-10, 45% from 10-16, 47% from 16-3PT and 38% from 3PT.
He's only attempted 62 shots from 3-10 all year. Overall he's giving us 14 points on 11 FGA. Sure, superstar or franchise player is a lot to ask, but he's above average at age 21 and projects to a 20+ guy in his prime.
-
Yup. In a minute. But unless Giannis is making a complete mess of things for the Bucks with threats and demands of wanting out of Milwaukee, its not happening.
Feel the same way about Kawhi and San Antonio.
Yeah, as I said this is just a purely hypothetical scenario.
As for the "Kawhi drama", wouldn't surprise me if Pop just leaked that to the media to get some chuckles while eating popcorn and reading the reports and trade rumors :laugh:
-
100% yes.
-
Wow this poll looks one sided. At one point, it was 5 "yes" vs. 2 "No".
Now it's 26 "yes", 6 "no" :P
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
Brown's value is as high as it ever will be?
Half way through his second year?
At 21?
After being about the most improved player in the league this year?
After tremendously improving his defense, outside shooting, handle, aggressiveness, and ability to finish in traffic?
Wow! Talk about a hot take!
-
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
I dont want to get off topic here but Jaylen Brown in his time in the league has dunked over Lebron, clapped in Currys face, flexed on Cousins and blew kisses at the 76ers bench. I think he has plenty of killer instinct.
And yet he's shooting well under league average in FGs % both 0-3 ft and 3-10 ft from rim. For someone as athletic as him, that's a red flag. I'm not talking about attitude. Lance Stephenson does that garbage as well. I'm talking about I have the ball and I'm going to take it down your throat.
I'm sorry to blow the dreams of all, but he's a very average offensive player so far. I'm seeing very little signs of superstar. I'd trade him in the package because some GM might be fooled in thinking he's a franchise player based on the handful of amazing plays he's done. He needs much more consistency to convince me.
He's shooting 63% from 0-3 feet, 26% from 3-10, 45% from 10-16, 47% from 16-3PT and 38% from 3PT.
He's only attempted 62 shots from 3-10 all year. Overall he's giving us 14 points on 11 FGA. Sure, superstar or franchise player is a lot to ask, but he's above average at age 21 and projects to a 20+ guy in his prime.
Those numbers are below league average, as I mentioned. Points are up due to usage going up. He hasn't improved much offensively. Advanced analytics shows it.
I would not trade Tatum for anyone because his value is the lowest it will ever be. And it's not just an age thing of rookies will always grow and become better. For example, I believe that Jaylen Browns value is the highest it will ever be right now. I don't consider him to be more than a good starter because he doesn't have the killer instinct to be the guy, but some GMs still think that he has star potential.
If it's Giannis for Tatum straight up in a hypothetical world where it's legal, sure. But you'd have to throw in picks, players, the kitchen sink. It's just not worth it.
Brown's value is as high as it ever will be?
Half way through his second year?
At 21?
After being about the most improved player in the league this year?
After tremendously improving his defense, outside shooting, handle, aggressiveness, and ability to finish in traffic?
Wow! Talk about a hot take!
There's a difference between trade value and performance/ability. His trade value is very high right now because people are buying into the potential. I don't think his trade value will go up much more than it is right now. He could currently fetch a ~5-10ish 1st rounder or be a piece of a larger package. His performance/ability will surely improve, though. Right now he's an average starter and he should trend towards above average starter. Superstar or any kind of star?... Unlikely.
Your adverbs are just as hot as my take, btw. Good thing there are stats to disprove them. While his 0-3 went up 2%, his 3-10 went down 13%! His turnovers per 36 minutes have also gone up. Defense has statistically improved. Not sure about tremendous, though. He went from -1 DBPM to 1 DBPM. While thats a large improvement, he technically went from slightly below average to slightly above average. We're also boasting huge DBPM numbers across the board (Kyrie Irving also had a +2 jump -2.3 to -0.4). The correlation seems to be the system and not the specific player. Most improved player? By which metric? That award will surely go to Oladipo. Not sure if anyone is even in the same stratosphere.
-
In a freaking minute. Giannis is an MVP candidate already, still super young, and under a nice team friendly contract.
Irving-Brown-Hayward-Giannis-Horford...drool
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
-
Yes. Heck yes.
Tatum is a special player, but Giannis is slowly crossing the "best in the world" line, and he's only 22. I would not hesitate trading Tatum and whatever else it takes to get Antetokounmpo.
-
I really, really like Giannis. But I just can't get behind a player who can't shoot the 3 ball in the modern NBA. I think with the Lakers pick you could draft a player who has the upside to be similar to Giannis in Marvin Bagley.
Tatum is a totally different kind of player, he could be a mix of Paul Pierce and Melo by the time he has done developing. That's also an offensive superstar but of a different kind entirely.
-
To think we traded up in that draft for Kelly Olynyk instead of him. I’m not going to stand on my soap box, but I’m going going to stand on my soap box.... lol.... I wanted the Cs to draft him from the get. At that point we were still searching for a GO TO high upside player. I don’t think Kelly ever had that written all over him like Giannis. Yes he was boom or bust... but now look.
With that said... I wouldn’t trade Tatum for anyone aside from Lebron, Durant, and I would kind of be upset if we did for Towns or AD. Everyone else... I’d rather see why we got in this kid. If he starts being more aggressive, and gains some weight I.E finishes at the rim and is stronger on defense... he’s a bonified superstar/ hall of fame type player. He’s that skilled already.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
-
Honestly I can't believe this is even a debate.
I'll put it this way... If Ainge has a shot at Giannis he would give up a LOT to bring him here. Tatum would easily be a part of the package - I doubt he'd give it a second thought.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
-
Sure.
But you would also have to include one of our three maxes in the deal.
EDIT: just to be sure in case this thread gets resurrected in 3 years or something. "Sure" goes to the hypothetical of trading Tatum for Giannis.
A real life scenario where we would have to match salaries (and satisfy the Bucks demands) is much more complicated to discuss.
-
Those numbers are below league average, as I mentioned. Points are up due to usage going up. He hasn't improved much offensively. Advanced analytics shows it.
Citation, please.
45% / 47% / 38% from 10+ foot ranges don't look below average to me, and 63% is probably a couple of layups away or right around league average. 3-10 sure, but we're talking about 64 attempts all year.
If you're gonna school us with "advanced analytics", you need come with more than a couple of decent looking FG% stats.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
Sure, Giannis could certainly work on his 3 point shooting and look to improve it, but remember he's 23 (still has some time to work on his mechanics and what not).
Also, guys like Butler, DeRozan, etc. aren't the best 3 point shooters. I'd say they are doing a pretty good job surviving the NBA at the moment.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
This is just ridiculous. the vast majority of the players in the league don't shoot 3's very well at all. Just because Golden State has a ridiculous collection of talent, including 3 of the best pure shooters in NBA history, it doesn't mean that you have to win that way. The Golden State way is quite simply not a sustainable way to win for the every other team and the Warriors still have plenty of players that are bad shooters that get actual rotational minutes.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
A team can’t survive without shooting and spacing.
An individual player can thrive. Giannis is averaging 28 / 10 / 5. Lebron is a career 34% 3PT shooter.
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
A team can’t survive without shooting and spacing.
An individual player can thrive. Giannis is averaging 28 / 10 / 5. Lebron is a career 34% 3PT shooter.
The team of course is what's really matters
-
This is the purest example of green tinted glasses I've ever witnessed. C'mon guys. You're being ridiculous.
Giannis is a top 5 player in the league right now. At the tippity top of his peak, Tatum could maybe reach that. I like the kid too, but Giannis is in another stratosphere.
Top 5? I think he's close, but I think (in no order) Lebron, Harden, Durant, Davis, Curry, and a healthy Kawhi are above him as of now. But by next year, he should be Top-5.
I have Giannis at 4 behind James, Durant, and Curry. I think he is a better overall player than Harden, Davis, and Leonard right now.
Fair enough.
either way it would be insane not to trade Tatum for him.
Giannis can't shoot a 3 to save his life, Tatum is one of the best already as a 19 rookie
it's laughable to trade Tatum for him straight
Ah yes, because a 3 is all there is in basketball. 4 of Larry Bird's first 5 season he shot less than 29% from three. Magic Johnson had multiple seasons under 20% from three. Michael Jordan shot under 19% his first four seasons and had multiple other season where he never even cracked 30%. heck the reigning league MVP has had 4 seasons under 30% and is barely above that number this year.
But hey Kyle Korver can shoot the ball great, so he must be better than those guys. (and no I'm not saying Tatum will end up like Korver, I was using a hyperbole to prove a point).
There is more to basketball then shooting the 3.
This is modern NBA we are talking about and you can not survive without the 3
of course you can.
Sorry but..actually you can't
A team can’t survive without shooting and spacing.
An individual player can thrive. Giannis is averaging 28 / 10 / 5. Lebron is a career 34% 3PT shooter.
The team of course is what's really matters
Right. And a team doesn’t need 5 outside shooters in the lineup. Put Giannis on a team with Horford, Hayward and Kyrie. Is spacing an issue?
-
Giannis at least takes threes so the threat of him making them is there, unlike someone like Simmons who won't even shoot them. He doesn't have to be a great 3 point shooter to be great. Lebron never was a great 3 point shooter until just recently. Wade is a bad 3 point shooter. So is Westbrook. Greatness in basketball doesn't require being a great three point shooter, even in today's game.
-
Giannis at least takes threes so the threat of him making them is there, unlike someone like Simmons who won't even shoot them. He doesn't have to be a great 3 point shooter to be great. Lebron never was a great 3 point shooter until just recently. Wade is a bad 3 point shooter. So is Westbrook. Greatness in basketball doesn't require being a great three point shooter, even in today's game.
Kobe was a pretty poor 3 point shooter as well. I mean he had way more seasons shooting under 30% than he had shooting over 35% and he finished at 32.9% on his career. Carmelo's first 4 seasons he shot 32.2, 26.6, 24.3, and 26.8 before he finally found a better touch.
I have no concerns at all with Giannis inability to consistently hit a 3 point shot because he is just so good elsewhere and he gets to the line nearly half of the time he shoots. And for as much as we say a 3 is better than a 2, foul shots are the highest percentage shots you can take because no one guards you.
-
BUMP.
You all still would or no?
I wouldn't (and I also voted and stated "No" on this when I created this back in January lol)
-
Umm, yes.
Those who say no must think that Tatum will be better than the Greek Freak b/c of his shooting.
To that, I say no. The Greek Freak will be a better player today, tomorrow, and 10 years from now.
-
No I would not.....Tatum has an outside shot...3 point range and is mid range jumper is nails. When he grows into his body with another off season of weight training...he will be unstoppable going to the basket....I will not trade him for anybody.
-
I bet if this poll were posted on the Bucks forum the results would be 100% NO to trading Giannis for a package including Tatum.
For me it'd depend on the package, but yes I would trade for him. Giannis is very effective, and has plenty of room to grow.
-
I bet if this poll were posted on the Bucks forum the results would be 100% NO to trading Giannis for a package including Tatum.
For me it'd depend on the package, but yes I would trade for him. Giannis is very effective, and has plenty of room to grow.
Well OBVIOUSLY the Bucks fans on their forums would say 'no'.
Spurs would have said 'no' to this kind of question back in September too though (Tatum + pieces FOR Kawhi). Still think they are all saying 'no' though? ;)
(Again it's just "hypothetical" and I'm not saying it's a guarantee to happen at all)
-
I would not because I think Tatum could have just as much if not more upside. Tatum can shoot, is athletic and has good length. If he grows we won't want the Greek Freak because Tatum would be more skilled.
-
Giannis is 23 and just averaged 27/10/5 - all while shooting ~31% from 3. Those are crazy numbers. If we had a 23 year old doing that we wouldn’t trade him for literally anyone.
On the other hand, Tatum has bucket loads of potential and a deadly outside shot.
If the package was reasonable (I.e. no Brown) I don’t think you could say no.
Kyrie
Brown
Hayward
Giannis
Al
That’s a good fantasy team, let alone a real one
-
I actually don’t think I would give up Tatum for Giannis. It’s a tough call.
I just wouldn’t like the lack of spacing and although Kyrie thrived “off-ball” with LeBron, the gap between LeBron and Giannis is much bigger than most think.
Tough call. Something about Giannis (besides his shot) I don’t trust. I don’t think he’s that intelligent of a player and often needs to get bailed out.
Tatum just seems like a perfect fit for this team and system, hence why Danny pivoted away from Fultz.
-
It depends on the package, if Tatum was the biggest piece then hell yes. Giannis may not have the outside shot, but he has literally everything else including DPOY level defensive play, no injury history and youth.
-
YES...and Danny would not even have second thoughts.
Big mistake by DA not drafting him in favor of Klynik..not making the same mistake twice.
Tatum is tradeable to the following... AD, Giannis
-
If Tatum is the only major piece, how could you say no? A 20 yo with all-star potential v. a 23 yo who is already top-5 and MVP candidate.
-
NOPE.
Tatum outplayed Giannis in Game 7 on both ends of the floor.
He also is more humble and less dramatic than Giannis IMHO.
-
If it is just Tatum? Yeah, you still do that in heart beat.
Giannis is good man. He's like the ultimate mismatch. That being said, I think he needs a good coach ASAP. Starting to see some bad habits/traits develop (the whineness/finishing in big games).
-
I actually don’t think I would give up Tatum for Giannis. It’s a tough call.
I just wouldn’t like the lack of spacing and although Kyrie thrived “off-ball” with LeBron, the gap between LeBron and Giannis is much bigger than most think.
Tough call. Something about Giannis (besides his shot) I don’t trust. I don’t think he’s that intelligent of a player and often needs to get bailed out.
Tatum just seems like a perfect fit for this team and system, hence why Danny pivoted away from Fultz.
Horford / Hayward / Kyrie / Brown isn’t enough spacing?
Do Houston and GSW lack spacing because they start a non-shooter?
-
I would consider it ...strongly , trigger finger itchy ....straight up yeah....
Tatum is better all around all ready and plays like a 25 year old vet. , But the freak has HOF potiental
You got to wonder what The Freak might morph i nto under Brad Stevens .....Bron 2.0 ?
-
Yes.
-
I actually don’t think I would give up Tatum for Giannis. It’s a tough call.
I just wouldn’t like the lack of spacing and although Kyrie thrived “off-ball” with LeBron, the gap between LeBron and Giannis is much bigger than most think.
Tough call. Something about Giannis (besides his shot) I don’t trust. I don’t think he’s that intelligent of a player and often needs to get bailed out.
Tatum just seems like a perfect fit for this team and system, hence why Danny pivoted away from Fultz.
Horford / Hayward / Kyrie / Brown isn’t enough spacing?
Do Houston and GSW lack spacing because they start a non-shooter?
All of this. Plus, GIannis is a pretty good free throw shooter. I’m not sure why he can’t become at least a decent shooter over the next two years.
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
That he gave up is pure nonsense.
-
Yes.
Second this.
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
That he gave up is pure nonsense.
I saw him more as "give me the ball" than giving up. If Giannis had a good long range game -- he'd be the best player in the league right now. At 23 I'll bet on him developing the range. Much more of a sure thing "top 5" than Tatum since Giannis is probably already top 5!!
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
That he gave up is pure nonsense.
I saw him more as "give me the ball" than giving up. If Giannis had a good long range game -- he'd be the best player in the league right now. At 23 I'll bet on him developing the range. Much more of a sure thing "top 5" than Tatum since Giannis is probably already top 5!!
Giannis is Top-10 right now, not Top-5.
-
In a vacuum yes.
Really depends on what has to be added to the package. (which is a lot less than when this thread started based on Tatum)
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
That he gave up is pure nonsense.
Giannis is a great player but also overrated to some degree (both can be true). At this point, he is not a player that can carry a team in game 7 (neither is Tatum). Both have plenty of upside to become that type of player. If I was allowed to pick one of them today for the Celtics, I would pick Giannis. I like the length which is more of a need for this roster (Hayward and Tatum can both be the primary wing-SF). Tatum may end up better "IF" he gets stronger, IF he improves ball handling, IF.... . Giannis still has potential that may or may not get realized but there is less uncertainty with Giannis. It seems to me that Giannis would thrive as the second best player on a team (which he could be on Boston with Kyrie).
-
Some Bucks fans believe Giannis is just overrated. Could not lift the Bucks to a Game 7 win and that he gave up.
I thought his body language last night confirmed to me that he gave up. Khris Middleton was the one trying to lead the Bucks to the promise land lol.
Therefore, nah. I want to keep my boy Tatum. He is the future and could become the next KD35.
That he gave up is pure nonsense.
Giannis is a great player but also overrated to some degree (both can be true). At this point, he is not a player that can carry a team in game 7 (neither is Tatum). Both have plenty of upside to become that type of player. If I was allowed to pick one of them today for the Celtics, I would pick Giannis. I like the length which is more of a need for this roster (Hayward and Tatum can both be the primary wing-SF). Tatum may end up better "IF" he gets stronger, IF he improves ball handling, IF.... . Giannis still has potential that may or may not get realized but there is less uncertainty with Giannis. It seems to me that Giannis would thrive as the second best player on a team (which he could be on Boston with Kyrie).
Sums up my thoughts perfectly. Those who lean heavily towards Tatum are ignoring the positive impact Brad Stevens would have on Giannis. In these debates I tend to assume that we would see the best version of any player who comes to Boston. Are Giannis' shooting woes really a problem on this roster?
Let's pretend we live in a world where Tatum is swapped directly for Giannis. Imagine the sheer versatility of an Irving, Brown, Hayward, Giannis, and Horford lineup. The defense and transition scoring would break the will of most teams.
-
In a vacuum yes.
Really depends on what has to be added to the package. (which is a lot less than when this thread started based on Tatum)
Well even if he was available like years from now, he's making like 24M+ by then, so matching salaries would be extremely difficult in that trade (like it would have for an Anthony Davis one).
-
Are Giannis' shooting woes really a problem on this roster?
I think I am agreeing with Green-18 but does Giannis really have shooting "woes"? I think he shoots pretty well for someone his size. Per NBA stats, 46.2% 8-16 ft and 38.5% 16-24 ft. (For reference, Anthony Davis is 43% 8-16 ft and 34% 16-24 ft, I guess he has woes too). The Celtics would play him as a big (where he should play). He would get 10+ rebounds, block shots, run the floor and can shoot a high percentage within a reasonable range if playing with good shot selection. If he is open and has a totally squared up look, fine, take the outside shot but that should not be the objective. I have no concerns whatsoever with Giannis' shooting.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
And Horford made him his B.
F no.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
And Horford made him his B.
F no.
Do you know who else was 7-17 in that game 7?
-
Are Giannis' shooting woes really a problem on this roster?
I think I am agreeing with Green-18 but does Giannis really have shooting "woes"? I think he shoots pretty well for someone his size. Per NBA stats, 46.2% 8-16 ft and 38.5% 16-24 ft. (For reference, Anthony Davis is 43% 8-16 ft and 34% 16-24 ft, I guess he has woes too). The Celtics would play him as a big (where he should play). He would get 10+ rebounds, block shots, run the floor and can shoot a high percentage within a reasonable range if playing with good shot selection. If he is open and has a totally squared up look, fine, take the outside shot but that should not be the objective. I have no concerns whatsoever with Giannis' shooting.
Are Giannis' shooting woes really a problem on this roster?
I think I am agreeing with Green-18 but does Giannis really have shooting "woes"? I think he shoots pretty well for someone his size. Per NBA stats, 46.2% 8-16 ft and 38.5% 16-24 ft. (For reference, Anthony Davis is 43% 8-16 ft and 34% 16-24 ft, I guess he has woes too). The Celtics would play him as a big (where he should play). He would get 10+ rebounds, block shots, run the floor and can shoot a high percentage within a reasonable range if playing with good shot selection. If he is open and has a totally squared up look, fine, take the outside shot but that should not be the objective. I have no concerns whatsoever with Giannis' shooting.
Yeah we are in complete agreement. I mentioned shooting "woes" in regard to his lack of confidence in creating shooting opportunities from the perimeter as a #1 option. He still looks awkward at times if he is forced to catch the ball from beyond the arc against good NBA defenders.
The perception of this being a fatal flaw is largely overstated by most. As you mentioned he would be treated as big man in our offense. Milwaukee realistically needs to build around him as a 4/5 in their half court offense. The goal should be to get him the ball from inside 15 feet every time. His perimeter ball handling is fine when Milwaukee forces a switch onto slower or weaker defenders.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
Kobe was 8-for-24 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals once.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
Kobe was 8-for-24 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals once.
Was he guarded by Ojelly?
Giannis is overrated. If he was not mollycoddled by the refs who allow him to take four steps, his game would be much different.
-
I'd trade any player in the NBA for Giannis, including Lebron and Durant. Age factors into that thought.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Yeah. I said "yes" before when this thread first appeared ... but after seeing Giannis against the Celtics in the playoffs, I am switching to the "no" camp.
I was not impressed by Giannis in that series. He is nowhere near the MVP candidate the media portrays him as. He is a very good player. An All-Star. But not an MVP and I am not even sure he is a top 10 player in the league either.
I'd rather take my chances with Tatum. At least with Tatum you do not need to build around him to compensate for his flaws like you do with Giannis.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
Kobe was 8-for-24 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals once.
These are Michael Jordan's 1st four playoff appearance shooting stats in the closeout game of the series that the Bulls lost.
6 for 16
8 for 18
9 for 30
10 for 22
Let's not pretend that all great players don't lay some eggs when their team needs them the most.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Yessir! ;D
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
Kobe was 8-for-24 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals once.
Was he guarded by Ojelly?
Giannis is overrated. If he was not mollycoddled by the refs who allow him to take four steps, his game would be much different.
As I said earlier, I agree that he is overrated. He is such a "feel-good" story and yes, he is getting way too much deference from the refs that he is being viewed by many as the next big star of the league. He may not be that but he is a very talented and gifted player. I suggest that you are overcompensating to the one truth that he is overrated and not fully recognizing that overrated or not, he is still a really good player with still plenty of upside. Of course, no one knows, we are all just making our best guess.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
-
You would have to do that deal. Not sure what the other pieces would be but it couldn't be JB but otherwise yes!!
-
Well, the poll was something like 48-16 when I opened it back up.
Since then, 11-4 in favor of "Yes"
-
You know a reason why I wouldn't entertain this at all ?
Team
I don't think Ainge should trade his two future corner stone players (see Paul Westphal) in Tatum and Brown. We have two future all stars and they are KIDS. I think if you are trading Horford he understands it, his age group of players understands etc. Trade a 20 year old and I think it will affect the other youngsters that are staying with team
-
No...
Adding the freak does nothing to put us closer to a chip... He shrinks in the big moments..
It's his 5th year and he still doesn't have a reliable outside game.
He has yet to impact a playoff series enough to get his team out of the 1st round. In fact, you can make the case that in that game 7 - Semi locking him up was the key to them losing.
If Tatum averaged 7 points in his rookie year the way the freak did we would not be having this conversation.
The Freak is cool.. A great story... A super Athlete..
Tatum has shown you that he is nothing but a winner... He shows up big in big moments.
Game 7 he was huge for us... Game 1, no Brown (with most of the fans already giving us the excuse to lose) and what does the kid do?? Balls out.
You don't give that up for a fantasy basketball dream project...
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
Honestly, your rationalization holds no water. Makes zero sense.
-
Giannis was 7-17 in a game seven his team had to win.
Kobe was 8-for-24 in Game 7 of the NBA Finals once.
Was he guarded by Ojelly?
Giannis is overrated. If he was not mollycoddled by the refs who allow him to take four steps, his game would be much different.
As I said earlier, I agree that he is overrated. He is such a "feel-good" story and yes, he is getting way too much deference from the refs that he is being viewed by many as the next big star of the league. He may not be that but he is a very talented and gifted player. I suggest that you are overcompensating to the one truth that he is overrated and not fully recognizing that overrated or not, he is still a really good player with still plenty of upside. Of course, no one knows, we are all just making our best guess.
If he develops a three point shot, then he will be a great player.
It was funny to watch him get bullied by Horford, however.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
-
Giannis, Age 19:
77 games, 24.6 MPG, 6.8 points, 4.4 boards, 1.9 assists, .44 from 2, .34 from 3, .463 EFG, .68 from line
Tatum Age 19:
80 games, 30.5 MPG, 13.9 points, 5.0 boards, 1.6 assists, .475 from 2, .434 from 3, .538 EFG, .82 from the line
Tatum is a far better and far more efficient player than Giannis at the same age. In fact, while Giannis took a major leap to .51% from 2 his second year, it has taken him four years to get to Tatum's Rookie efg of .538, he's still behind Tatum in FT% and three point %, by a wide margin.
It is hard to tell what Tatum's ceiling may be but with another 10-15 pounds of muscle and another year of experience he may well be in the Zone of where Giannis is today, given the minutes and shots.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, from what I've seen it appears that Jayson may be more of an alpha dog mentally. He looks like he has that killer instinct, along with elite shooting, something Giannis sorely lacks.
-
Giannis, Age 19:
77 games, 24.6 MPG, 6.8 points, 4.4 boards, 1.9 assists, .44 from 2, .34 from 3, .463 EFG, .68 from line
Tatum Age 19:
80 games, 30.5 MPG, 13.9 points, 5.0 boards, 1.6 assists, .475 from 2, .434 from 3, .538 EFG, .82 from the line
Tatum is a far better and far more efficient player than Giannis at the same age. In fact, while Giannis took a major leap to .51% from 2 his second year, it has taken him four years to get to Tatum's Rookie efg of .538, he's still behind Tatum in FT% and three point %, by a wide margin.
It is hard to tell what Tatum's ceiling may be but with another 10-15 pounds of muscle and another year of experience he may well be in the Zone of where Giannis is today, given the minutes and shots.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, from what I've seen it appears that Jayson may be more of an alpha dog mentally. He looks like he has that killer instinct, along with elite shooting, something Giannis sorely lacks.
The fact that Tatum is having a better rookie year than Giannis means almost absolutely nothing in terms of what he will become. Because by definition the fact that Giannis is so good means he made absolutely huge improvements, and those improvements are far from guaranteed for Tatum. Four years of Marcus Smart shooting 30% from 3 should have taught everyone that.
Now that being said I still wouldn't trade Tatum, or Brown for that matter. I love both those guys. Before these playoffs I probably would have but both of those guys have shown me enough to make me think they can be All-Stars, and maybe even more if everything breaks right. But we should at least acknowledge that the odds are against Tatum or Brown being as good or better than the 6-9 best player in the league.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
I never said that. All I was saying is that assuming Tatum will be a top-10 league talent by the time he's 23 is very ambitious, to say the least.
I don't disagree with your points - I think Westbrook is arguably the biggest recipient of inflated stats that don't represent his true impact of all time in the NBA, if not at least within the last couple of decades. With Giannis however, I feel like he could be a centerpiece on a championship roster if coached correctly and surrounded by decent players.
I've flip-flopped on this a couple of times, but after Tatum quietly putting up 3 straight 20+ point games I don't think I'd make this move.
Having almost too much young talent is a nice problem to have ;D
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
I wouldn't be able to type that with a straight face. That's simply not something you can just declare as a fact lol. There are plenty of guys who don't improve after their rookie year. Many get worse. It's ridiculous for you tell him that Tatum well definitely get "exponentially better". You're not clairvoyant dude.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
I never said that. All I was saying is that assuming Tatum will be a top-10 league talent by the time he's 23 is very ambitious, to say the least.
I don't disagree with your points - I think Westbrook is arguably the biggest recipient of inflated stats that don't represent his true impact of all time in the NBA, if not at least within the last couple of decades. With Giannis however, I feel like he could be a centerpiece on a championship roster if coached correctly and surrounded by decent players.
I've flip-flopped on this a couple of times, but after Tatum quietly putting up 3 straight 20+ point games I don't think I'd make this move.
Having almost too much young talent is a nice problem to have ;D
I think Giannis NEEDS to fix his jumper if he wants to be truly great. Not make the playoffs with a decent supporting cast, but take that same team deep. He’s not there yet and clearly has a ways to go.
Maybe he’s a top-10 player statistically, much like Westbrook, but when the playoffs begin, do you really think they are? I’m not exactly convinced. I know we haven’t seen him without LeBron yet, but I’d take Playoff-Kyrie above either, and few put him in the top-10 as far as overall players. To be honest, every time Middleton got the ball, I was worried more than when Giannis has it. Even Parker when he got going was tough. In the end, Giannis always had his numbers, but when they needed a basket, they couldn’t rely on him.
Tatum *probably* won’t be a top-10 player in 3-4 seasons, but he could be that guy in the playoffs that absolutely destroys you. He was thrust into this role that nobody expected him to need to fill. What Mitchell is doing in Utah is pretty insane if you ask me. The league hasn’t seen rookies do what they are doing in a couple decades. But Tatum has the length to become an elite defender and rebounder while nearly unguardable offensively. We are starting to see his offensive arsenal expand already.
For Kawhi? Maybe. But Giannis? Eh.
And yes, we aren’t even talking about Brown or TR3 here. Crazy a 55-win team has this many budding stars and another all-star looming.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
I wouldn't be able to type that with a straight face. That's simply not something you can just declare as a fact lol. There are plenty of guys who don't improve after their rookie year. Many get worse. It's ridiculous for you tell him that Tatum well definitely get "exponentially better". You're not clairvoyant dude.
Okay, “dude.”
I won’t declare anything about him (as fact) even though I’ve seen every game of his pro career, and will assume you have as well. Nor what everyone around the organization and the league has said about him. There are very few players who have done what he has in his age-19 season, especially in the playoffs. I’ll forego what my eyes see because I’m not clairvoyant, but I’ve heard a lot more “this kid is going to be special” than I’ve heard “flash in the pan.”
I hope you can follow up with some of the many players who at that age put up 14 and 5 on a .538 eFG% and then regressed. Look at his NetRtg and WS for a one-and-done rookie. Truth is he has very few comparables. He’s a smart player who has an excellent feel for the game. He takes what the defense gives him and finds a way to help this team. He’s got elite length and just needs to add a little more size, which he clearly has the frame to do so effectively.
I’m sure we would need everything to break right for Tatum to put up 15 and 5 in his prime.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
Does it make sense to criticize Giannis for lack of playoff success while praising Davis? Through their age 23 seasons, Giannis has made the playoffs three times, compared to once for Davis.
There are a lot of great players who don’t carry their teams to the Finals. KG didn’t get out of the first round until he was 27 for instance. The “great players win by their fifth season” argument makes no sense.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
That's still a handy player if utilised correctly. Saying Tatum will be better than that is pretty crazy.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but that kind of development is not common
So you’re looking to build a team around a handy player? We know that MVP awards matter to some players, rings others
Westbrook cannot be the best player on a championship team. I don’t believe Giannis can either. You wanna pay them $45M, do so, but that will likely land you as a bottom seed in the playoffs and first round exit.
Even though this thread is about Giannis vs. Jayson, what I replied about had nothing to do with Tatum. With that said, I do believe Jayson has the skill set to possibly be the best player on a championship team. He has work to do, but the skill is there. Durant may be a stretch, but the similarities are there. He’s barely 20 years old, he’s going to get exponentially better than he already is, and that’s pretty [dang] good.
I wouldn't be able to type that with a straight face. That's simply not something you can just declare as a fact lol. There are plenty of guys who don't improve after their rookie year. Many get worse. It's ridiculous for you tell him that Tatum well definitely get "exponentially better". You're not clairvoyant dude.
Okay, “dude.”
I won’t declare anything about him (as fact) even though I’ve seen every game of his pro career, and will assume you have as well. Nor what everyone around the organization and the league has said about him. There are very few players who have done what he has in his age-19 season, especially in the playoffs. I’ll forego what my eyes see because I’m not clairvoyant, but I’ve heard a lot more “this kid is going to be special” than I’ve heard “flash in the pan.”
I hope you can follow up with some of the many players who at that age put up 14 and 5 on a .538 eFG% and then regressed. Look at his NetRtg and WS for a one-and-done rookie. Truth is he has very few comparables. He’s a smart player who has an excellent feel for the game. He takes what the defense gives him and finds a way to help this team. He’s got elite length and just needs to add a little more size, which he clearly has the frame to do so effectively.
I’m sure we would need everything to break right for Tatum to put up 15 and 5 in his prime.
But you did. You said, "he's going to get exponentially better", and there's just no way of knowing that. Tatum is great, and I hope he continues to improve and reach his potential. You don't need me convince me on that. But that's what it is. Potential. He certainly might end up being better than Westbrook and Giannis. He also might end up not being as good as them. I just can't tell the future, and unless you're BFF's with Tatum or know something else we don't, you can't either.
Also Tatum doesn't have elite length. He's 6'8'' with a 6'11'' wingspan. Not bad, but not something write home about. Who is someone who does have elite length, you ask? Take a look at the guy you're guaranteeing Tatum will be better than.
Lastly, I just don't understand what you're trying to say with the last sentence. It's just supposed to be sarcastic? Because Tatum can already put up 15 and 5? But that proves nothing when comparing him to RW and Giannis. They put up 25/10/10 and 26/10/4 last year, respectively, so Tatum being able to average 15 and 5 doesn't change the fact that he's not as good as them yet.
-
No I wouldn't do the trade. In 4 years when Tatum is Giannis' age Tatum will be vastly superior to what Giannis is now.
Vastly superior? That pretty much puts Tatum on Lebron’s level, doesn’t it?
Twist the words to whatever meaning you want. I wouldn't do the trade because Tatum is going to be a lot better then Giannis. Giannis is so overrated.
Is that twisting your words?
What class of player is “a lot better” or “vastly superior “ to Giannis?
Giannis, at age 23, averaged 26.9 points / 10.0 rebounds / 4.8 assists / 1.5 steals / 1.4 blocks / .545 eFG%.
No player in NBA history has averaged that line, although Larry and Kareem came close. I can’t even imagine “much better” or “vastly superior”. A better KG? Lebron? MJ?
How much emphasis are you really putting into stats?
They were still barely a .500 team in his 5th season. Where was LeBron (and Kawhi) already by his fifth season? The Finals?
He’s still struggling to make the playoffs and this year, he had the chance to show the world who he was.... and he failed. How can he be so great and not beat a team missing what the Celtics were missing? If they match up against a healthy Celtics squad, how does that series go? It’s not even competitive. You think Milwaukee fans want a rematch with us next April? Ha.
People can point to teammates (although I was impressed with Middleton, he’s one of the most underrated players in the league), the coach, the GM, whatever. When does he get the blame? He’s a terrible shooter and careless on defense. He gets bailed out a lot because of insane athleticism, but he is not a complete player. He is LeBron athletically but lacks the skill and acumen that makes LeBron an all-time great.
I wasn’t willing to bow down before the series and definitely didn’t come away impressed with him after.
He’s on the Russell Westbrook level to me, not the Anthony Davis one.
Does it make sense to criticize Giannis for lack of playoff success while praising Davis? Through their age 23 seasons, Giannis has made the playoffs three times, compared to once for Davis.
There are a lot of great players who don’t carry their teams to the Finals. KG didn’t get out of the first round until he was 27 for instance. The “great players win by their fifth season” argument makes no sense.
Thank you for this post. The blatant bias against Giannis is absolutely mind numbing. People will cherry pick any recent fact that fits their argument without considering the relevance. As you mentioned, KG in his prime cannot be considered an elite player under their criteria.
I'm going to try to attack this from a different angle. Many people in this thread are holding Giannis solely accountable for their playoff loss against us in round 1. If that's true then we as Celtics fans are NOT allowed to cite the excellence of Stevens as a reason for winning against the Bucks. The fact that Milwaukee has an interim coach and lacks a real system did NOT play a role in development of the 2017/18 Bucks. A coach swap of Stevens for Kidd/Prunty prior to the season would have made NO difference. Even with Stevens the Bucks wouldn't have had a system to maximize the talents of their roster. Their record would NOT have been better during the regular season and they would have gotten bounced from the playoffs in the first round. After all, lets remember that Stevens doesn't maximize the talents of EVERY player on his roster.
Meanwhile Jayson Tatum and Donovan Mitchell would still be lighting it up in the playoffs regardless of coaching. Snyder and Stevens didn't do anything to accentuate strengths and hide their weakness of their young players throughout the course of the 82 game season.
-
So here's my real take on Giannis. At 23 years old he is one of the most freakish and unique talents in the history of the NBA. There's no reason he cannot develop into the best player on a championship contender with the right coach, culture, and talent around him. The Bucks lack in all of these areas. I guess we could say that they have solid talent but the pieces don't really fit together.
An earlier poster suggested that it is more reasonable to compare Giannis' offensive game to Anthony Davis rather than an elite wing player. This is absolutely true IMO. His ability to dominate in the paint is amazing to watch.
His lack of a jump shot is a fair criticism. Just remember that this flaw prevents him from being an unstoppable force, as opposed to not being a top 10 player.
-
NOOO, Tatum is already ahead of where Freak was when he came in the league...and he's not even filled out. His game will get more polished with more tricks.
I would like to see him go work with Kobe this summer because you can see he's watched a lot of his game. The post moves, the face ups, the crossovers are vintage Kobe. Now he just needs to get stronger and refine those skills.
The Bucks can keep the non-shooting Freak.
-
(https://media.giphy.com/media/ZqlvCTNHpqrio/giphy.gif)
-
So I’m going change my vote. Jayson Tatum is officially untouchable in my book.
-
Ainge again was right.
He was right about Jaylen. He was right about Rozier. He was right about Tatum.
-
Tatum, has carried his team in the playoffs
Simmons = fail
Only Mitchell is Tatums equal
-
Tatum, has carried his team in the playoffs
Simmons = fail
Only Mitchell is Tatums equal
And Mitchell takes 20+ shots a game
-
No
-
No. As good as Giannis is, he's dominant with the ball and can't space the floor very well.
-
No
-
No. As good as Giannis is, he's dominant with the ball and can't space the floor very well.
He is barely 20.
-
No
Tatum is going to be better than Greek the "brick"
-
I love Tatum, but still yes.
-
No. As good as Giannis is, he's dominant with the ball and can't space the floor very well.
He is barely 20.
And Tatum is 3 years younger.
-
I love Tatum, but still yes.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/Rt23MIHkCJwdy/giphy.gif)
-
You said it’s a package deal? Who else is Milwaukee sending with Giannis to get Tatum?
8) 8) 8)
-
No. As good as Giannis is, he's dominant with the ball and can't space the floor very well.
Lol what? That is a huge compliment. Do you mean he is ball-dominant (still not necessarily a bad thing)?
-
You said it’s a package deal? Who else is Milwaukee sending with Giannis to get Tatum?
8) 8) 8)
lol
-
From an earlier Post I did:
"Giannis, Age 19:
77 games, 24.6 MPG, 6.8 points, 4.4 boards, 1.9 assists, .44 from 2, .34 from 3, .463 EFG, .68 from line
Tatum Age 19:
80 games, 30.5 MPG, 13.9 points, 5.0 boards, 1.6 assists, .475 from 2, .434 from 3, .538 EFG, .82 from the line
Tatum is a far better and far more efficient player than Giannis at the same age. In fact, while Giannis took a major leap to .51% from 2 his second year, it has taken him four years to get to Tatum's Rookie efg of .538, he's still behind Tatum in FT% and three point %, by a wide margin.
It is hard to tell what Tatum's ceiling may be but with another 10-15 pounds of muscle and another year of experience he may well be in the Zone of where Giannis is today, given the minutes and shots.
Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, from what I've seen it appears that Jayson may be more of an alpha dog mentally. He looks like he has that killer instinct, along with elite shooting, something Giannis sorely lacks."
While I like the numbers comparison (or I wouldn't have posted it in the first place...) the most important part is the last paragraph. Tatum is a barely 20 year old rookie posting 25 a game in this series. He has ice water running through his veins (acknowledging he was tight at the line down the stretch tonight...) but you can see that he wants the ball when it matters most and he has elite shooting skills, offensive moves and ball handling for a guy 6'9.
No, I would not trade Tatum for Giannis. I might try to add Giannis to Tatum if an opporutnity presented itself though- that could be fun.
-
To put it more simply, Tatum has as much skill as Giannis and also has something you can't teach which is a "major" clutch gene. That a separating factor when comparing any players for me.
-
Tatum is untradeable now. He's also been completely BOSS in the playoffs!!
And he's this GOOD now as a rookie! We are just scraping the tip of the iceberg. Just imagine once he fully matures into his body and his game? Becoming a Top 5 superstar could be well within his ceiling.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
-
No. As good as Giannis is, he's dominant with the ball and can't space the floor very well.
Lol what? That is a huge compliment. Do you mean he is ball-dominant (still not necessarily a bad thing)?
Yep, that's what I meant. Not a good fit with CBS system. There is a reason Rondo got traded. Aside from Kyrie, ball-distribution from this team is well-balanced. Fit should be also be in consideration when acquiring talent. OKC is a living proof that talent doesn't always amount to wins.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
-
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
For one thing he is seven foot tall and thinks he is a small forward.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
-
Another Basement thread!
Smell the coffee for ch#### sakes...
The Greek cherry or whatever he calls himself has zero game 5 ft from the basket. Does he suk? No, but he ain't no Tatum!
-
Check out this stat: (https://sports.yahoo.com/celtics-proving-76ers-best-rookie-series-043850250.html)
"While Simmons has been rattled, Tatum has been anything but. Tatum is now the only player in NBA history to score at least 20 points in five consecutive playoff games at age 20 or younger."
Tatum is the real deal guys. His upside is massive. I would not move Tatum for anybody!
-
Another Basement thread!
Smell the coffee for ch#### sakes...
The Greek cherry or whatever he calls himself has zero game 5 ft from the basket. Does he suk? No, but he ain't no Tatum!
I mean, I created the thread and voted 'NO' back in like January.
But as you can see by the poll, seems most thought I was an idiot at the time. However, it seems like every vote since this was re-opened in April again is now going to the "No" option :P
It was like 57-19 "Yes", now 61-37 "Yes.
-
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
For one thing he is seven foot tall and thinks he is a small forward.
You mean like Durant?
-
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
For one thing he is seven foot tall and thinks he is a small forward.
You mean like Durant?
I guess Durant has the advantage of being an unfairly good shooter.
But it would be a waste for Giannis to not play on the perimeter with the handle he has
-
Giannis is a 1st Team All NBA player in his early 20's. You have to make that trade.
-
Giannis is a 1st Team All NBA player in his early 20's. You have to make that trade.
Tatum is a rookie with a better skill set with cost control. In four years, he could be better than Giannis. So no, I would not make the trade.
I am starting to think the first person we trade will be Rozier or Kyrie, and it won't be until after next season, not Brown or Tatum after our playoff run.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
You are the first person that doubts Giannis' character ......
Maybe he is an a$$ i don"t know him personaly but i find hard to believe that only you have realised it....
BTW even if middleton and maker are better supporting cast than cassel and sprewel (they are not) i cannot see how you can argue that it is a supporting cast good enough to reach ECF. (i really hope you won't try to)
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
That isn't really true. Sprewell was definitely worse for his 2 years in Minny than Middleton has been over the last 3 years, and Cassell v Bledsoe is basically a wash. Cassell had one strong year in Minny then fell off the perch completely.
KG made the playoffs multiple times with a supporting cast of Szczerbiak, Terrell Brandon and co., losing to a good Portland team, an elite San Antonio team, a Mavs team with Dirk, Nash and Finley, and the Lakers.
KG's run as a young guy is not comparable to Giannis'. Give KG teammates of that caliber against a team as rundown as our C's and he definitely would beat us.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
That isn't really true. Sprewell was definitely worse for his 2 years in Minny than Middleton has been over the last 3 years, and Cassell v Bledsoe is basically a wash. Cassell had one strong year in Minny then fell off the perch completely.
KG made the playoffs multiple times with a supporting cast of Szczerbiak, Terrell Brandon and co., losing to a good Portland team, an elite San Antonio team, a Mavs team with Dirk, Nash and Finley, and the Lakers.
KG's run as a young guy is not comparable to Giannis'. Give KG teammates of that caliber against a team as rundown as our C's and he definitely would beat us.
First off, they were only together for 2 years. Cassell was hurt the 2nd year and things went off the track, so we'll look at the one full year they had.
Cassell averaged 19 and 7 on ~49%/40%/87% shooting. His PER was 22.8, VORP was 4.5, and he had over 12 win shares, 4th most in the NBA that year (KG was 1st). He was an all star. He was better that year than Bledsoe or Middleton ever have, or ever will be.
There are certainly comparisons between the Bucks and the Wolves before Cassell and Spreewell (KG, Wally, Troy Hudson, Joe Smith) but not after. KG with Cassell and Spreewell was a legit contender. They had one healthy year together and were the #1 seed, and lost in the ECF to Kobe/Shaq.
-
I would not give Tatum for anyone, after this Philly-series. Only sky is the limit for this young guy.
-
Brown yes, Tatum no.
Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.
-
Brown yes, Tatum no.
Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.
Before he got hurt Brown was the leading scorer on this team with a 20 point game and 2 30 point games. Take away the 2 point game where he didn't play in the 2nd half and scored 2 points on limited minutes in the first half because he got hurt and Brown is actually averaging more points per game than Tatum.
If your answer is no on Tatum based on scoring, I don't understand how it can be yes on Brown given he was a better scorer during the season and except for one game he got hurt in, a better scorer in the playoffs.
-
Brown yes, Tatum no.
Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.
Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.
-
I know part of the fun of CelticsBlog is discussing hypotheticals, but these playoffs are making it pretty clear to me that the C's should keep Brown and Tatum together no matter what any other team offers us. They are more valuable together than they are as separate players, and they are good enough already to get us into the final four, and perhaps even the finals.
They do not seem to resent each other's success, and they don't ever seem interested in padding numbers, or demanding a particular number of shots. They listen to the coach, and listen to other players. They are both two-way players who can defend multiple positions and have multiple ways to score. They are both crazy good athletes, and are oversized for their positions. They are fearless, clutch players.
As a combination, we've gotten every bit as lucky as if we drafted Giannis, or Anthony Davis. I think we can table any trade options for Tatum and/or Brown until 2030 or so
-
The thing is we have a lot of wings that do the same thing. Long, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions. Not a bad thing to have a lot of. The thought challenge here is if you trade one of them for Giannis, you add diversity to the team. You remove a shooter but add a significantly more athletic player than any of our other players. This is theoretically a plus because it gives you more options on how to play. However, I am not sure what that does to Brad Stevens' plug and play offense where all 5 guys can beat you from any part on the court. Does diversity improve the team or does it make it easier to beat?
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
TP.
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003. You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.
Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.
-
The thing is we have a lot of wings that do the same thing. Long, athletic, can shoot, defend multiple positions. Not a bad thing to have a lot of. The thought challenge here is if you trade one of them for Giannis, you add diversity to the team. You remove a shooter but add a significantly more athletic player than any of our other players. This is theoretically a plus because it gives you more options on how to play. However, I am not sure what that does to Brad Stevens' plug and play offense where all 5 guys can beat you from any part on the court. Does diversity improve the team or does it make it easier to beat?
I think there'll be a time when Brad pulls a 5 wing lineup with Semi or Morris at the 5 and we'll be raving about keeping all our wings lol. Ofc adding Giannis is great but I don't see why we should trade Tatum or Brown for him and I don't see why Milwaukee should trade Giannis for anyone on thr Celtics not named Jaylen Brown or Jayson Tatum.
-
Brown yes, Tatum no.
Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.
Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.
My comment was poorly formulated indeed, although I think it's p easy to understand what I'm talking about.
-
Brown yes, Tatum no.
Someone who can consistently score 20 pts in playoff games locked in a 7 mil/4 year contract is too great a bargain.
Considering that this description seems to fit both Brown and Tatum, I'm not sure I follow the logic either.
My comment was poorly formulated indeed, although I think it's p easy to understand what I'm talking about.
^
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003. You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.
Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.
For the record, Middleton averaged slightly more points than Cassel that year and had a higher eFG% and FT%. He also averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks.
-
Funny how things change so quick.
Poll used to be 57-19. Now it's 61-43 :P
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003. You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.
Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.
For the record, Middleton averaged slightly more points than Cassel that year and had a higher eFG% and FT%. He also averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks.
No but yea, I'm lazy and don't understand basketball.....either/or ::)
-
No. Tatums contract is better and gives us more flexibility
This for starters. The fact that he can actually shoot, score in the clutch, and average 20+ ppg for a team up 3-0 in the Eastern Semis while still being 3.5 year younger than Freak is another.
The rebounding and stupid length of Giannis is nice. The attitude and lack of success as top banana (albeit a young banana still) isn't.
What is wrong with Giannis' attitude?
BTW already said but heres once more... KG won a series for first time at the tender age of 27. I guess he was a loser too,right?
Are we really going to rehash the KG-supporting-staff-in-Minny debate? When your BEST #2 EVER is a choice between Cassell or Spreewell.....Something tells me if a 23 year old Garnett had Middleton, Bledsoe, crap even Thon and Henson to man the paint next to him, he would've found his way to the 2nd round. But that's not why I'm responding.
Something always bugged me about the way Giannis responded to Kidd. I'll never forget how he said Kidd rode him hard one practice and Giannis' response was to go to the internet and check his coach's credentials, and only after discovering he was a Hall of Famer would he deem it ok for his coach to...ya know....coach him.
To me that speaks worlds about the type of attitude he has as a player.
I thought for a second you were arguing FOR Giannis. Spreewell and Cassell were way better than Drew Bledsoe and Middleton. John Henson and Thon Maker?? Are you serious? They suck. Plus they are terrible fits with Giannis. Neither can shoot. Henson has zero offensive game, and Maker is like 35 years old.
Also that's also probably the weakest story ever someone has referenced to prove Giannis has a bad attitude. That's the best you can do? That he did research on his coach? Lol.
Wait....you're being serious? Spreewell and Cassell were WAY BETTER than what the Bucks have right now? Have you looked at what the aforementioned 33 year old 40% FG (not 3FG, but like, just shots in general), BELOW 15 BOTH MINNY YEARS IN PER Spree did?!
Cassell there's at least an argument to be made but his numbers and Middleton are comparable (minus the fact that Sam averaged less than 1 3pt per game. I get that the era was different but still, the idea of inside/out and shooters being needed on the court to bail out the KG's and Duncan's doing work in the post was a main focus of those teams). But even still, that means you go to the 3rd guy and its Bledsoe and his objectively decent numbers against Spreewell and his plain craptastic years.
You can't be serious. It's no contest that this Bucks supporting staff, while glaringly flawed, would wipe the floor with whatever it was KG had.
I'm all for admitting when I've been beaten or said something wrong but....not here.
Just look at Cassell's stats in 2003. You either don't understand basketball or are too lazy to do any research before you post. He simply had a better year than anyone Giannis has ever stepped on the floor with.
Cassell shot 48.8% from the field, 2% higher than Middleton. Cassell shot 39.8% from 3, 4% higher than Middleton. Cassell averaged twice as many assists with only slightly more turnovers. Cassell's PER was 5 points higher than Middleton's. Cassell had over 5 more win shares than Middleton. Cassell's VORP, USG%, BPM, DBPM, and OBPM are all higher than Middleton's. The only stat you can find that Middleton was better than Cassell at was 3 point ATTEMPTS. Lol.
For the record, Middleton averaged slightly more points than Cassel that year and had a higher eFG% and FT%. He also averaged more rebounds, steals, and blocks.
No but yea, I'm lazy and don't understand basketball.....either/or ::)
Lol, the guy really knows how to get a point across in a nice manner doesn't he
-
(https://i.imgur.com/A3PsxGR.jpg)
Purely Hypothetical: Would You Trade Tatum In Package For Greek Freak?
Nah, I'm good.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/A3PsxGR.jpg)
Purely Hypothetical: Would You Trade Tatum In Package For Greek Freak?
Nah, I'm good.
TP.
-
TP. I totally agree. By the way Tatum now has scored 20 or more points in 7 straight playoff games. Most EVER by a player 20 years or younger in the entire 71 year history of the Association.
Kid is a budding Superstar. And I want to watch him playing for the Celtics for his whole ride to the top!
-
No...next!
-
NOPE. Not even for Anthony Davis! 8)
-
NOPE. Not even for Anthony Davis! 8)
Davis seems to be too high in character to demand a trade, but the Celts need to find a way to encourage it (while keeping Tatum and Brown) and then just enjoy the 3-5 ensuring championships.
-
I always think to myself..."hey this is a great player as is."
And then I come back reality.
Reality is, he is the most successful 20 year old scorer OF ALL TIME. *granted most of the greatest scorers were opted into college for three years* but the kid is a straight up assassin. Untouchable for anyone but AD.
Add him to Brown. He has blossomed into a sniper. A 6'7 230 pound (if rumors are right 6'8 238 pound :) )uber athletic sniper.
And they buy into the coach. We have a shot at being a perfect version of the Spurs. A shot, not a guarantee.
-
I always think to myself..."hey this is a great player as is."
And then I come back reality.
Reality is, he is the most successful 20 year old scorer OF ALL TIME. *granted most of the greatest scorers were opted into college for three years* but the kid is a straight up assassin. Untouchable for anyone but AD.
Add him to Brown. He has blossomed into a sniper. A 6'7 230 pound (if rumors are right 6'8 238 pound :) )uber athletic sniper.
And they buy into the coach. We have a shot at being a perfect version of the Spurs. A shot, not a guarantee.
Yeah, I'm going to quote myself here.
Best young core in the NBA. BLEED GREEN BABY
-
I always think to myself..."hey this is a great player as is."
And then I come back reality.
Reality is, he is the most successful 20 year old scorer OF ALL TIME. *granted most of the greatest scorers were opted into college for three years* but the kid is a straight up assassin. Untouchable for anyone but AD.
Add him to Brown. He has blossomed into a sniper. A 6'7 230 pound (if rumors are right 6'8 238 pound :) )uber athletic sniper.
And they buy into the coach. We have a shot at being a perfect version of the Spurs. A shot, not a guarantee.
Yeah, I'm going to quote myself here.
Best young core in the NBA. BLEED GREEN BABY
Clearly you haven't been on the 6ers boards lately. They insist and all agree they have the more talented and deeper core. This series was just all about coaching. Solely coaching. Nothign else....
::) ::) ::) ::)
-
I always think to myself..."hey this is a great player as is."
And then I come back reality.
Reality is, he is the most successful 20 year old scorer OF ALL TIME. *granted most of the greatest scorers were opted into college for three years* but the kid is a straight up assassin. Untouchable for anyone but AD.
Add him to Brown. He has blossomed into a sniper. A 6'7 230 pound (if rumors are right 6'8 238 pound :) )uber athletic sniper.
And they buy into the coach. We have a shot at being a perfect version of the Spurs. A shot, not a guarantee.
Yeah, I'm going to quote myself here.
Best young core in the NBA. BLEED GREEN BABY
Clearly you haven't been on the 6ers boards lately. They insist and all agree they have the more talented and deeper core. This series was just all about coaching. Solely coaching. Nothign else....
::) ::) ::) ::)
Then Brown is a really terrible coach if he's getting beaten 4-1 against a team missing it's 2 best players and a crucial back-up big man, lol.
-
How can the Sixers have terrible coaching? Brett Brown actually received votes for Coach of the Year while Stevens didn't get a single vote for Coach of the Year!
Clearly Stevens was outcoached by Brown in this series, therefore, it all comes down to the talent!! :police: See what I did there?
Clearly you haven't been on the 6ers boards lately. They insist and all agree they have the more talented and deeper core. This series was just all about coaching. Solely coaching. Nothign else....
::) ::) ::) ::)
-
NOPE. Not even for Anthony Davis! 8)
Hell yeah!!!
-
Obviously you'd include more in the bigger package, like the Lakers/Kings Pick, maybe 1 or both of the 2019 Clippers and Grizzlies pick, and some salary (doesn't have to be Horford, fortunately). Now I'd hope any deal for Greek Freak means we keep Jaylen, but he may have to be in the package as well.
I voted yes to the poll originally (Tatum + picks), but now I'd vote no.
-
I always think to myself..."hey this is a great player as is."
And then I come back reality.
Reality is, he is the most successful 20 year old scorer OF ALL TIME. *granted most of the greatest scorers were opted into college for three years* but the kid is a straight up assassin. Untouchable for anyone but AD.
Add him to Brown. He has blossomed into a sniper. A 6'7 230 pound (if rumors are right 6'8 238 pound :) )uber athletic sniper.
And they buy into the coach. We have a shot at being a perfect version of the Spurs. A shot, not a guarantee.
Yeah, I'm going to quote myself here.
Best young core in the NBA. BLEED GREEN BABY
Clearly you haven't been on the 6ers boards lately. They insist and all agree they have the more talented and deeper core. This series was just all about coaching. Solely coaching. Nothign else....
::) ::) ::) ::)
Then Brown is a really terrible coach if he's getting beaten 4-1 against a team missing it's 2 best players and a crucial back-up big man, lol.
I really try to stay off of other teams boards. I view every fan base as similar in regards to delusions. The difference is you guys are delusional WITH me :)