CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 12:27:30 PM
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22179536/kawhi-leonard-relationship-san-antonio-spurs-becoming-strained
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Sounds like a bunch of nothing to me....
I think the Spurs are just not handling it as well as Stevens has with Hayward...
Hayward feels involved. He feels like he is actually still apart of the team. Leonard is quiet, but intelligently well spoken individual. But he doesn't vocally say what is on his mind unfortunately.
So regarding the injury, they have to be more willing to try to get Leonard involved in the team. You rarely hear about Leonard's involvement with the team despite his continued absence from the team, and more about how well the Spurs are playing without their best player. It definitely would irk someone like Lebron, or Westbrook if they were out for extended period of time, only to hear constantly from news reporters, outlets, or analysts saying, "Spurs are doing well without Kawhi, what does this mean for the team?" blah blah blah, etc.
It has to wear on a player, especially someone like Kawhi Leonard.
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ESPN seems to have a knack for producing these "tension in dynastic franchises" pieces lately.
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Yea this kind of sounds like a whole bunch of nothing to me. He has an injury that has taken longer to heal than expected and I am sure there has been frustration and disagreements about best course of action. This is different from what happens on just about every team? Is there a "chilling effect" on the 76ers franchise that Fultz has scapular imbalance?
God I wish someone would challenge ESPN with good sportswriting/they would stop sensationalizing the crap out of everything.
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woj is very reliable source, the most reliable name in basketball and he never reports anything that might ruin his rep.
Its woj. It isnt fake.
I also don't Think this is nothing. Seems they brought him back to early and they lost his trust. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks to be traded
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woj is very reliable source, the most reliable name in basketball and he never reports anything that might ruin his rep.
Its woj. It isnt fake.
I also don't Think this is nothing. Seems they brought him back to early and they lost his trust. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks to be traded
The article really didn't say much at all. The only reason I give the main point of the article any credibility is because it's from Woj with contributions from Zack Lowe. If they are putting their names on it, there has to be something there, though it's not really present in the actual printed report.
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Weird article, it doesn't really say what the source of the "tension" actually is. Frustration with medical staff is a likely candidate but it could also be as simple as "slow recovery process makes young introverted star kinda mopey". Which is a shame but doesn't really warrant the tone of the piece.
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woj is very reliable source, the most reliable name in basketball and he never reports anything that might ruin his rep.
Its woj. It isnt fake.
I also don't Think this is nothing. Seems they brought him back to early and they lost his trust. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks to be traded
Have you seen woj's pieces on Lebron over the years? I like Woj, but the everything he reports is rooted in hardcore fact hasn't been true...
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Weird article, it doesn't really say what the source of the "tension" actually is. Frustration with medical staff is a likely candidate but it could also be as simple as "slow recovery process makes young introverted star kinda mopey". Which is a shame but doesn't really warrant the tone of the piece.
Exactly.
Did anyone follow some details of Hayward's story? He sounds also depressed about his injury and that is VERY understandable. It's how I would be in his position. There was talk about him not really wanting to be around the team and trying to stay connected because that's a real thing. Look what just happened with Derrick Rose as well.
To me this is more recent examples of the NBA media at large being very TMZ lately in a way I do not like. And also, I hate the way headlines and things work these days to create a splash and make statements beyond pieces and things like that and I don't let these media companies off the hook for that. It's been bad this year. IT in multiple situations including with Pierce and the defense blame on him now, Lavar Ball all along here, the Clippers/Rockets story (which seems shoddily reported), the Cavs blaming story recently in which players went to the media and used them like a PR company for a story, this.
Also, on Woj, there are two Woj's. Pure reporter more and then his tone pieces. He has done less of those but he used to do more. This is a man who was tearing down LeBron for years before he got over the hump and won a title (when he dragged the worst supporting cast in NBA history I have to imagine to the Finals) and then he entirely flipped his tone on LeBron.
I always thought that part of Woj's work was junk and still do. He's not iron clad when he's in that mode.
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woj is very reliable source, the most reliable name in basketball and he never reports anything that might ruin his rep.
Its woj. It isnt fake.
I also don't Think this is nothing. Seems they brought him back to early and they lost his trust. Wouldn't be surprised if he asks to be traded
Have you seen woj's pieces on Lebron over the years? I like Woj, but the everything he reports is rooted in hardcore fact hasn't been true...
Yes, just beat me to this. He has eased off that kind of thing but he used to do it a lot and it's part of why I never liked him.
TP
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Woj is the ruling "party".
He is not good nor bad, he just is.
In general I dislike the ruling party, so I dislike his voice of the establishment persona.
I have no idea where he is going with this one TBH.
If I were Kawhi and wanted to leave ID give him a call, but I'm not buying ATM.
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Woj is the ruling "party".
He is not good nor bad, he just is.
In general I dislike the ruling party, so I dislike his voice of the establishment persona.
I have no idea where he is going with this one TBH.
If I were Kawhi and wanted to leave ID give him a call, but I'm not buying ATM.
Celticsblog twitter wrote what I think is a very funny tidbit/joke.
ok, I'll ask...
how does one tell when Kawhi is “distant and disconnected?"
like, does one eye twitch slightly less?
does he stare with his eyes slightly crossed?
help me out here
But agree with your points. Woj is sometimes inconsistent to be honest.
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I believe this 100% and if you read what Buford says about it "this has been very difficult for Kawhi" is something you would say about someone who was upset.
So you have the GM confirming that the player is upset, and you have the most reliable basketball source telling you there is a problem... yeah there is a problem.
Will it result in anything? Who knows.
Kawhi is a free agent at the end of next season, Spurs need to put someone around him or he wont stay. Right now they have nothing.
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I believe this 100% and if you read what Buford says about it "this has been very difficult for Kawhi" is something you would say about someone who was upset.
So you have the GM confirming that the player is upset, and you have the most reliable basketball source telling you there is a problem... yeah there is a problem.
Will it result in anything? Who knows.
Kawhi is a free agent at the end of next season, Spurs need to put someone around him or he wont stay. Right now they have nothing.
That's where the Celtics come in.
If we lose Smart, put Hayward at the 2. Brown can come off the bench but have 20 plus mins.
Kyrie
Hayward
Leonard
Tatum
Horford
Sixth man Brown.
Yeah I can live with that. :angel:
Okay dreams over.
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woj is very reliable source, the most reliable name in basketball and he never reports anything that might ruin his rep.
I think this was the case but unfortunately he went to ESPN and he is less reliable now.
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Jalen rose thinks kawhi wants out of san antonio
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaaphhea. If we could only send the Lakers Pick.......I'd be on board. Then use the disabled exception for a solid SG....
Wow...... This would be fun next year.... But there goes our depth for this year.
Irving Larkin
Tatum Rozier
Kawhi Semi
AL Theis
Baynes
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
even if lebron waves his NTC i don't know if SAS will want him for potentially half a season
he could bolt
big time risk
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
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https://twitter.com/firsttake/status/955843455615426565
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
lebron doesn't care. Lebron likes to be coach and gm
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
The Spurs, basically without Leonard all year, have a better record than the Cavs. Now obviously, coaching is a big factor in this, but the best coach in the world doesn't have that record unless there is a lot of talent on that team.
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
The Spurs, basically without Leonard all year, have a better record than the Cavs. Now obviously, coaching is a big factor in this, but the best coach in the world doesn't have that record unless there is a lot of talent on that team.
I disagree if. You switch the Pops and Lue the Spurs are a below .500 team and the Cavs have the best or second best record in the conference. Its that big a difference. Lue is a horrible coach and Pops is the best.
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
The Spurs, basically without Leonard all year, have a better record than the Cavs. Now obviously, coaching is a big factor in this, but the best coach in the world doesn't have that record unless there is a lot of talent on that team.
I disagree if. You switch the Pops and Lue the Spurs are a below .500 team and the Cavs have the best or second best record in the conference. Its that big a difference. Lue is a horrible coach and Pops is the best.
But we are talking about the Cavs without James (since it is a supporting cast discussion). I just don't see that roster as anywhere near the best or second best record even with Pop instead of Lue.
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Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
The Spurs, basically without Leonard all year, have a better record than the Cavs. Now obviously, coaching is a big factor in this, but the best coach in the world doesn't have that record unless there is a lot of talent on that team.
I disagree if. You switch the Pops and Lue the Spurs are a below .500 team and the Cavs have the best or second best record in the conference. Its that big a difference. Lue is a horrible coach and Pops is the best.
But we are talking about the Cavs without James (since it is a supporting cast discussion). I just don't see that roster as anywhere near the best or second best record even with Pop instead of Lue.
Could anyone see a Kawhi for Lebron trade? Lebron gets a better supporting cast and a legendary coach to end his career with, and the Cavs get amazing value for him with a franchise cornerstone to build around
Why do you think San Antonio's supporting cast is better than Cleveland?
Love = Aldridge
IT >> Murray
Wade>> Green
Crowder =Anderson?
Thompson<Gasol
Seems like at best that would be a wash..
Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
The Spurs, basically without Leonard all year, have a better record than the Cavs. Now obviously, coaching is a big factor in this, but the best coach in the world doesn't have that record unless there is a lot of talent on that team.
I disagree if. You switch the Pops and Lue the Spurs are a below .500 team and the Cavs have the best or second best record in the conference. Its that big a difference. Lue is a horrible coach and Pops is the best.
But we are talking about the Cavs without James (since it is a supporting cast discussion). I just don't see that roster as anywhere near the best or second best record even with Pop instead of Lue.
So you are kind of muddling the argument here a little. Hpantzo was saying that Spurs would have a better supporting cast for Lebron than the Cavs currently do. The Cavs record this year is based on them not having IT almost the entire season. So the records aren't really relevant to this supporting cast debate.
Yesterday I was saying I didn't think that IT would be an all-star again and more of a Jamal Crawford type cause he lost something with his injury. You were quite adamant that he was an all-star level talent and were also adamant that Love was an all-star talent. Now today you are turning around and saying the Spurs supporting cast with one all-star is better and they have a more talented supporting cast. How can both of these be true? (especially given your long stated view that star power is more important than depth and top end talent wins).
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ESPN seems to have a knack for producing these "tension in dynastic franchises" pieces lately.
They need to create something even if it is fake or unverified. Otherwise, we all might as well pack our bags and wait for GS to win again. :(
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San Antonio is 25-14 without Leonard this year (and with Pop). I just don't see the Cavs, minus Lebron, even with Pop being 25-14 with the roster they have (and remember Parker has missed a bunch of time, Gay has missed a bunch of games, etc.). I love Thomas and Love as pieces, but they are surrounded by a bunch of one dimensional role players and that dimension is by and large offensive oriented. Thomas and Love are poor defenders, they would need to be surrounded by defenders to have any sort of shot at being better than mediocre at best. The Spurs on the other hand have a MVP candidate in Aldridge, Parker (who has only played in half their games), Gasol (who is still very good), and then some more well balanced role players in Anderson, Green, Mills, Gay, and Manu. That team is better than the Cavs with Thomas, Love, Smith, Korver, Thompson, Wade, Crowder, and Green. There is nothing inconsistent in any of my statements.
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Would they like Brown and a draft pick .....
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Seems to me to be stating the obvious. Guy has been shut down with injuries in a year he was expected to compete for MVP. Of course he is frustrated. My guess is when he gets back and the Spurs keep winning and he puts up numbers that will disappear quickly.
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San Antonio is 25-14 without Leonard this year (and with Pop). I just don't see the Cavs, minus Lebron, even with Pop being 25-14 with the roster they have (and remember Parker has missed a bunch of time, Gay has missed a bunch of games, etc.). I love Thomas and Love as pieces, but they are surrounded by a bunch of one dimensional role players and that dimension is by and large offensive oriented. Thomas and Love are poor defenders, they would need to be surrounded by defenders to have any sort of shot at being better than mediocre at best. The Spurs on the other hand have a MVP candidate in Aldridge, Parker (who has only played in half their games), Gasol (who is still very good), and then some more well balanced role players in Anderson, Green, Mills, Gay, and Manu. That team is better than the Cavs with Thomas, Love, Smith, Korver, Thompson, Wade, Crowder, and Green. There is nothing inconsistent in any of my statements.
Generally based on what you have said in discussing teams over the years is that the teams with the best players and star players win. The Cavs would have two guys you have said should be all-stars if healthy yesterday. You have them over a team with 1 all-star aldridge feels pretty inconsistent with your takes over the years on star players being what matters
I also think your take saying Aldridge is an MVP candidate is a bit over the top. He is averaging 22 points and 8 rebounds with pretty average defense. Great comeback season? Sure
Comparable to what Lebron, Harden, Davis, Giannis, Curry etc are doing?... (he is not even an all-star starter).
Also Tony and Manu are definitely declining just like Korver and Wade are. Parker was demoted to the Bench for the first time since he was a kid recently. Manu has some nice skills but is 40 now and can only play 19 minutes. Gay hasn't played since December and it is unclear when he will be back.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
If that's your biggest issue with this idea, then Kawhi guards SGs and Hayward guards SFs, problem solved.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year. He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year. He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways
Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year. He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways
Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.
exactly. It wouldn't be optimal at all for Hayward to play SG.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Hayward has only played the 3 once in his career and it was last year. He was a 2 before that and Stevens interchanges players like that anyways
Ya I don't know where you get that idea. Basketball reference for example doesn't have a single season with him at over 27% of his minutes at SG. He is almost always straight SF. Rodney Hood was the SG in most lineups with Hayward in Utah. Stevens does indeed interchange players, but you have to be able to guard someone. Hayward is a good SF defender, but against quicker SG he would struggle. A back court defense of Irving and Hayward would be a weakness.
Video games, the old Jazz depth chart and fantasy
http://www.nbalive.gg/16/players/6355-gordon-hayward
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jazz-sg-gordon-hayward-hits-game-winner-vs-cavs-wednesday/
https://www.facebook.com/SportsCenter/posts/959955444023298
I concede though that technically what you are using is a slightly better metric :laugh:
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San Antonio is 25-14 without Leonard this year (and with Pop). I just don't see the Cavs, minus Lebron, even with Pop being 25-14 with the roster they have (and remember Parker has missed a bunch of time, Gay has missed a bunch of games, etc.). I love Thomas and Love as pieces, but they are surrounded by a bunch of one dimensional role players and that dimension is by and large offensive oriented. Thomas and Love are poor defenders, they would need to be surrounded by defenders to have any sort of shot at being better than mediocre at best. The Spurs on the other hand have a MVP candidate in Aldridge, Parker (who has only played in half their games), Gasol (who is still very good), and then some more well balanced role players in Anderson, Green, Mills, Gay, and Manu. That team is better than the Cavs with Thomas, Love, Smith, Korver, Thompson, Wade, Crowder, and Green. There is nothing inconsistent in any of my statements.
I agree the Spurs has a better cast, but not because of sheer talent alone. I for one think that the Spurs has a more balanced roster, and they are more disciplined and played hard., Now we don't know how much of the latter is because of Pop, or just how their GM put together their team.
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Now if you want to say coaching
Pops>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>every other coach>>>>college coaches at power 5 schools>>>> up and coming high school coaches>>> most announcers>>>> Lue
LOL!
This deserved a Tommy Point.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
FWIW: Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:
http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units
Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years. Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.
But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.
Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway. Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.
playing the 2 guard requires switching to guard the 1 at times. That’s why it’s a guard position for the most part.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
Can you give me the long list of shooting guards that you think Hayward will have trouble defending? It's easy to say he can't defend a position, but when you stop and analyze the position I bet you'll be hard-pressed to find actual names that will give him difficulty.
playing the 2 guard requires switching to guard the 1 at times. That’s why it’s a guard position for the most part.
The league requires switch-ability everywhere with the way the tempo is pushed/not allowing defenses time to set. However, based on your bolded statement then how is it even possible for players such as Redick, Ingles, Booker, Harden, etc. to be able to play the position? I think you're really underestimating Hayward's lateral quickness.
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
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I think this is much ado about nothing. I believe Leonard is frustrated because he's not playing. This is why we hear Brad constantly talking about keeping Gordon engaged with the team - injuries are psychologically and emotionally draining. Pop will probably handle Leonard like he handled Aldridge and cooler heads will prevail.
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Spurs is a mature organization. They'll be fine.
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I think ESPN is trying to create a buzz and they just hired Woj. I'm sure they're paying him handsomely, and I know they want him to generate as many views as possible. Writers are now stretching by using anecdotes to connect dots that may or may not be there.
The other dynamic is that teams like the Patriots and Spurs are easy targets. No one cares about how much air was in Joe Flacco's football? Trouble with the Phoenix Suns doesn't quite have the same appeal as with the Spurs.
I don't buy it. Fiery competitors should be irritable when they're not on the basketball court. I bet Pop isn't always a day at the beach.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
FWIW: Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:
http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units
Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years. Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.
But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.
Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway. Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.
According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
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I'm thinking that, with Kawhi likely hitting FA two summers from now, he's looking hard at the Spurs roster and realizing that, with an aging group of Parker, Manu, etc., and if they can't land another star FA (like a Lebron, or George, etc.), it's unlikely SAS stays in bonafide contention for long. Obviously with Pop, anything is possible, but he's (Kawhi) keeping his options open. Remember, it's not just the Rockets and Warriors, but up-and-coming teams like the Wolves, Pelicans (who could give them some trouble w/their size), etc. Oh, and the Thunder.
Still think there's less than a 5% chance he gets traded, but could he demand out this summer if Spurs have a somewhat lackluster playoffs and it doesn't seem they can land another star FA? Possibly.
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I think this is much ado about nothing. I believe Leonard is frustrated because he's not playing. This is why we hear Brad constantly talking about keeping Gordon engaged with the team - injuries are psychologically and emotionally draining. Pop will probably handle Leonard like he handled Aldridge and cooler heads will prevail.
Totally agree with you.
So, how do we get Leonard? 😉
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
FWIW: Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:
http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units
Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years. Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.
But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.
Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway. Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.
According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.
I would take the basketball-reference positional breakdowns with a grain of salt. My understanding is that they are based on sub cards, which can be very misleading. I.E., you often see two players come in at the same time as two go out and the announced substitutions make no positional sense.
Whether Hayward will have issues covering on defense due to the injury is always a possibility and would not be unreasonable to expect at first, but ultimately remains to be seen. And is kinda irrelevant to his ability to play the SG position prior to this season.
Hayward was an elite tennis player and was likely to play pro at that if not for a late high school growth spurt that suddenly made a basketball career real. He has always had great lateral footwork. If he heals well, then he hopefully will have it again.
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I'd actually consider a trade for some of their vets. C's could use the experience and Spurs could use less age.
Smart, Morris, Baynes and Yab
For
Ginobli, and Gasol.
Irving, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Gasol
Rozier, Ginobli, Tatum, Semi, Theis
Maybe try to use DPE on Ed Davis, Monroe, or Noel.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yck7j76w
We keep our draft picks and send Marcus Morris, Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and Abdel Nader for Kawhi and Kyle Anderson. I think Spurs would have to think about that one. Celts fans probably won't like it, but I think Danny would consider making this deal.
Future roster:
PG: Kyrie, Rozier
SG: Hayward, Smart
SF: Kawhi, Kyle Anderson
PF: Horford, Kawhi
C: Baynes, Horford, Theis
Could Kawhi even start at PF? Smart and Kyle Anderson are both starting caliber players.
Hayward isn't a shooting guard and can't defend the 2 full time
FWIW: Hayward has played SG a lot in the past and indeed, last year split his minutes almost 50/50 between SG & SF, per 82games.com's positional breakdown and nbawowy.com:
http://nbawowy.com/0hd1upifxgkl#/units
Now, he has put on a lot of muscle weight compared to his earlier years. Not sure whether he will play SG in the future.
But he most definitely has played SG a lot, including last year.
Brad Stevens really sees guys like Hayward as "wings" anyway. Whether at the 3 or the 2, he'll be expected to switch frequently.
According to Basketball Referecne hes never played more than 27% of his times at SG. This discrepency may come from playing a lot with Rodney Hood who is of simlar size, but more often defends SG than Hayward did. Also, not sure I want a guy coming of a major ankle injury having to chase guards aorund the perimeter, especially not if the other guard is Irving who is below average defensively. That said I'd stll do it because that lineup is still really good. You coudl always just shift everybody up and insert Smart at the SG in crunch time situations anwyay.
I would take the basketball-reference positional breakdowns with a grain of salt. My understanding is that they are based on sub cards, which can be very misleading. I.E., you often see two players come in at the same time as two go out and the announced substitutions make no positional sense.
Whether Hayward will have issues covering on defense due to the injury is always a possibility and would not be unreasonable to expect at first, but ultimately remains to be seen. And is kinda irrelevant to his ability to play the SG position prior to this season.
Hayward was an elite tennis player and was likely to play pro at that if not for a late high school growth spurt that suddenly made a basketball career real. He has always had great lateral footwork. If he heals well, then he hopefully will have it again.
Ya I try to take everything with a grain of salt. But just looking at the numbers for guys like jaylen brown and all horford their splits seem to be reasonable between sg/sf for Brown and pf/c for Al. I'm also skeptical when when a guy says he's a position lower than he appears. Sf like to be called guards because it makes them look more skilled for projects purposes. Either way Hayward may very well be able to play SG, I just don't think it's wise to pencil him in without a Second thought. But for an MVP level talent you do it.
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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.
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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.
I'm listening...
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If anybody thinks the Spurs are trading Kawhi, wait till I tell you about this awesome way to make money selling knife sets and makeup bundles door to door.
I'm listening...
Danny just waitingfor the phone to ring......hello Pops , yes we can make a deal for Leonard .....sure ......lets talk ......Leonard would love CBS ball.
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
-
Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
This post was riddled with mistakes I don't feel like digging around to correct, my
Mistake.
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
The game was in Memphis. Evans is a significant player but the other two combine for 16 points a game and have only started something like 15 games combined. Aldridge, Green, and gay are all starters that combine for 42 points a game. So kind of a weird response.
Edit looked up someone besides green by accident, he has started 30 games but point is the same.
Tyreke is huge with how bad Mario Chalmers post-injury and Harrison are. He's as important as Dinwiddie with the Nets.
JaMychal and Jarell have played well recently. At least eye test wise, probably numbers too. Not season-long stats. Memphis is a weird example because of how bad they have been with Tyreke and Gasol available.
-
Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
The game was in Memphis. Evans is a significant player but the other two combine for 16 points a game and have only started something like 15 games combined. Aldridge, Green, and gay are all starters that combine for 42 points a game. So kind of a weird response.
Edit looked up someone besides green by accident, he has started 30 games but point is the same.
Tyreke is huge with how bad Mario Chalmers post-injury and Harrison are. He's as important as Dinwiddie with the Nets.
JaMychal and Jarell have played well recently. At least eye test wise, probably numbers too. Not season-long stats. Memphis is a weird example because of how bad they have been with Tyreke and Gasol available.
I wasn't trying to say Memphis was great, but second night of a back to back to win by 23 is really impressive. I think with a depleted squad tonight it was just another case of pops being a dominant coach
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
The game was in Memphis. Evans is a significant player but the other two combine for 16 points a game and have only started something like 15 games combined. Aldridge, Green, and gay are all starters that combine for 42 points a game. So kind of a weird response.
Edit looked up someone besides green by accident, he has started 30 games but point is the same.
Tyreke is huge with how bad Mario Chalmers post-injury and Harrison are. He's as important as Dinwiddie with the Nets.
JaMychal and Jarell have played well recently. At least eye test wise, probably numbers too. Not season-long stats. Memphis is a weird example because of how bad they have been with Tyreke and Gasol available.
I wasn't trying to say Memphis was great, but second night of a back to back to win by 23 is really impressive. I think with a depleted squad tonight it was just another case of pops being a dominant coach
Fair enough. My bad! Pops for Stevens and three unprotected FRP’s
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Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
and it is Memphis who without Conley is one of the worst, if not the worst, team in the league.
-
Spurs up 8 on Cavs at end of 3rd. Something tells me if you swapped LeBron onto Spurs and then swapped Pop and Lue the score would not be reversed.
Cavs were actually 2.5 point favorites for that game last and are having major issues with chemistry, lineups, role and effort. So maybe it would.
I'll actually just add this probably isn't a differing viewpoint we will be able to resolve. There really aren't any advanced stats for coaching to wins. Many of these players have only ever played under pops and no other coach. I have seen pops coach many games where he sat his star players and the backups still won the game or came very darn near (more talking about regular season which is what we are talking about with these records). I believe if you gave Pops Love, IT, Wade, Shumpert, Frye, Thompson, Green, Osman etc they would be a 55 win juggernaut. He would immediately stop playing Love out of position, would get better effort out of players like Thompson and Green and would probably immediately cut Jr Smith. Inversely if you put Anderson, Green, Gay, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge under Lue I think they would all regress and become a 45 win team or worse. I think very highly of Pops and very lowly of Lue. However, as I said there isn't really a way to change these opinions for either of us. The closest we may get is Lue getting fired if they lose their next game and see how much better the Cavs perform with a new coach...(which will stink as a Celtics fan if it happens)
Just following up on this, tonight on the second night of a back to back, the Spurs without Aldridge, Leonard, Ginobli, Gay or green have a 10 point lead in Memphis! I take it back. I think pops wins 60 with the talent in Cleveland. Wow
It's impressive for sure. Memphis wasn't full strength either though. Tyreke Evans, JaMychal Green, and Jarell Martin were all not playing. Memphis was starting Andrew Harrison and Ivan Rabb along with Brooks/Gasol/Selden.
and it is Memphis who without Conley is one of the worst, if not the worst, team in the league.
Memphis had actually won 5 in a row at home prior to this game. They have also been above .500 for the last month (8-7) and certainly have not been playing like one of the worst teams in the league . Someone like Sacramento that is 3-13 in their last 16 games is a whole different level. This isn't just my viewpoint, Memphis was only a 1 point underdog yesterday and got completely blown out. Pops is a masterful coach and should be admired more for what he does, even on days he is resting or missing multiple starters. Incredible coach and impressive performance....