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Other Discussions => Other / General Sports => Topic started by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:43:10 PM

Title: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: eja117 on January 21, 2018, 09:43:10 PM
So after Brady who is there?

I'm think Babe Ruth in baseball, but he played when the game wasn't integrated. I still have him as far and away the GOAT of his sport.

Russell in basketball. ....is that arguable?

Secretariat in horse racing?

Gretzky I assume but I don't know tons about hockey. Plus the goalie position is so important and different.

Is there a runner?

Michael Phelps

Is there a golfer?

Is Pele that much better in soccer?
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 09:45:50 PM
One trip to the record books shows you Gretzky is on another level. Its unreal.

You cant even compare the other greats to him. He is that much greater than anyone else to ever pick up a hockey stick.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: A Future of Stevens on January 21, 2018, 09:57:58 PM
One trip to the record books shows you Gretzky is on another level. Its unreal.

You cant even compare the other greats to him. He is that much greater than anyone else to ever pick up a hockey stick.

This. I had this exact conversation with a friend the other day, and I looked into Gretzky, and my god, he blows everyone out of the water.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: gouki88 on January 21, 2018, 10:04:27 PM
Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: CelticsElite on January 21, 2018, 10:05:17 PM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ogaju on January 21, 2018, 10:06:45 PM
Brady

Serena Williams
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 10:27:45 PM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 10:28:42 PM
Lance Armstrong in cycling.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: tazzmaniac on January 21, 2018, 10:29:39 PM
Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Schumacher was great but many people would argue Ayrton Senna was the best Formula1 driver. 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on January 21, 2018, 10:30:33 PM
Efren Reyes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efren_Reyes
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Somebody on January 21, 2018, 10:31:33 PM
Roger Federer in tennis.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: tazzmaniac on January 21, 2018, 10:33:58 PM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: tazzmaniac on January 21, 2018, 10:35:42 PM
Lance Armstrong in cycling.
His use of performance enhancing drugs puts a big cloud over him being GOAT in cycling.   
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: tazzmaniac on January 21, 2018, 10:37:46 PM
Loved Ali but Sugar Ray Robinson would be the pound for pound GOAT in boxing. 

Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 10:41:01 PM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
That really wasnt my point. It was actually the opposite of my point.

Brady is pretty clearly the GOAT. You are always gonna have a spattering of homers and haters that think this guy or the other guy is the GOAT, but Tom is pretty obviously the GOAT.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: gouki88 on January 21, 2018, 10:42:24 PM
Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Schumacher was great but many people would argue Ayrton Senna was the best Formula1 driver.
I agree that Ayrton was freakishly gifted, but I think his premature death and thus lack of success compared to Schumacher makes him the lesser driver.

Schumacher at his peak is still the best Iíve ever seen convincingly
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 10:42:26 PM
Lance Armstrong in cycling.
His use of performance enhancing drugs puts a big cloud over him being GOAT in cycling.
eh. Everyone doped. He did better while doping than everyone else. I think Barry Bonds should be in the hall too. He is one of the greatest baseball players ever. He was juicing, but he was better at it than anyone else while juicing and its not even remotely close. In fact, I think Barry Bonds himself has a reasonable argument for GOAT.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: GC003332 on January 21, 2018, 10:57:59 PM
Cricket - Don Bradman

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Bradman
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: tazzmaniac on January 21, 2018, 11:00:29 PM
Federer and Schumacher are ones that you didnít mention.
Schumacher was great but many people would argue Ayrton Senna was the best Formula1 driver.
I agree that Ayrton was freakishly gifted, but I think his premature death and thus lack of success compared to Schumacher makes him the lesser driver.

Schumacher at his peak is still the best Iíve ever seen convincingly
I'm a big Shumacher fan but the Ferrari was by far the dominant car in a few of his championship seasons. 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: nickagneta on January 21, 2018, 11:03:46 PM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 21, 2018, 11:28:59 PM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: MJohnnyboy on January 21, 2018, 11:40:59 PM
Big time sports like football, baseball, and hockey are harder to analyze who the best was because there are a lot more positions which makes it harder to evaluate who had the greatest impact of them all.

I believe Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all time, but does that mean he's the best football player of all time? It's hard to compare his impact to Jerry Rice or Lawrence Taylor, two players who are also considered the best to ever play but at different positions.

Babe Ruth is considered the greatest hitter of all time, but did he have a bigger impact on baseball then say Nolan Ryan?

Did Wayne Gretzky have a bigger impact on hockey then Martin Brodeur?

Note: I'm not as passionate about baseball or hockey as I am about basketball and football so I'm just naming names. Hopefully you guys are catching my drift.

With basketball, the players play on both sides, so it's easier to evaluate who the best was even if there are five positions in basketball. Comparing Michael Jordan and Lebron James may be tough because they are different players, but we atleast get to see how they played on both sides of the court.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 21, 2018, 11:59:01 PM
Brady, Ruth, Gretzky, Jordan. Ruth and Gretzky aren't far and away. Willie Mays played good defense as well and some prefer Gordie Howe.

So really only Brady and Jordan.

I don't care about the "sports".
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: nickagneta on January 22, 2018, 12:02:05 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It still is today. Orr was the GOAT
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 12:04:37 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It stull is today. Orr was the GOAT

Sounds like Gretzky might not be able to make your first line b/c he's not a two-way player. Claude Julien, is that you?
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: furball on January 22, 2018, 12:18:44 AM
The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him. 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 12:27:23 AM
The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him.

Re: Ruth, not sure about that. He had great hand eye coordination, but was he really a great athlete? I would make the argument that Mays was a better athlete, even if Ruth was a better baseball player.

The same knock is on Brady. Greatest football player of all time, but is he the greatest athlete in NFL history? Wouldn't you think that someone like Jim Brown or Bo Jackson were better athletes?

It's an entirely subjective conversation.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 12:33:04 AM
The only clear guy in the 4 majors is Ruth.  In basketball I would argue Russell, In Hockey, Orr.  And in Football...wait for iiiiit....Jerry Rice. 

Ruth you can't argue with.  If you look at what he did, when he did it, and the fact that he was also a great pitcher.  You can't touch him.

Re: Ruth, not sure about that. He had great hand eye coordination, but was he really a great athlete? I would make the argument that Mays was a better athlete, even if Ruth was a better baseball player.

The same knock is on Brady. Greatest football player of all time, but is he the greatest athlete in NFL history? Wouldn't you think that someone like Jim Brown or Bo Jackson were better athletes?

It's an entirely subjective conversation.
The question isnt who is the GOAT athlete. Its who is the athlete who is that GOAT in their sport.

All football players are athletes, but the best athlete isnt the best player. I can promise you that OP wasnt curious if people thought Brady was the greatest athlete to ever play football. He's the greatest football player to ever play football.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 12:35:50 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
Then you just just doesn't understand hockey or how much a player could transform a sport. Stop looking at the raw numbers. Gretzky was an awful defensive player. He couldn"t fight to save his life.

Orr could beat your ass. People were afraid of him. Orr was the best defensive player in the league. He was an 8 straight Norris trophy winnner, 3 time Hart trophy winner, a Conn Smtyth award winner and a two time scoring champion.

When he got the puck behind his net and brought it up and wove through whole teams to shoot and score, it was unheard of. It still is today. Orr was the GOAT
I wont pretend to know much about hockey, so Ill defer to you here. Its just tough to look past those gaudy numbers.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on January 22, 2018, 12:39:55 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Ilikesports17 on January 22, 2018, 12:43:28 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 22, 2018, 12:49:58 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: nickagneta on January 22, 2018, 01:18:02 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.
That's just not true about how people feel about Orr outside of Boston. Real hockey enthusiasts see Gretzky and Orr on the same level with Orr being more transformstive to how hockey is played and Gretzky being how much hockey is dominated in the manner that Orr transformed it. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? For me its Orr.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: colincb on January 22, 2018, 03:58:04 AM
1-2-3
Mays-Williams-Ruth
Gretzky-Howe-Orr
Brady-Brown-Montana
Russell-Jordan-James


None of these is an easy choice, you can pick some one else of these top 3 and not embarrass yourselves, and I wonít get into any back and forth troll fest if you idiots donít agree.


The mods can lock the thread now.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Androslav on January 22, 2018, 06:17:20 AM
Skiing - the best woman of all time

Janica Kostelić
To become a top skier, you need money and snow. She didn't have one or the other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janica_Kosteli%C4%87

Most famous quote: ďIt seems the more difficult the conditions, the better I do.Ē

Even though I am a Croat (local-patriotism bias alert) I think she is the right choice for this sport. She had that true championship mentality and perseverance that is hard to find anywhere else.
I have seen her win at 14 in junior competition.
I have seen her win at 17 in senior competition.
I have seen her race without the stick - she finished 2nd that one. I guess she didn't want to disappoint the home crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOffj-h7-RE
I have seen her comeback each time after 10 knee operations. Better, hungrier still golden.
I have heard her brother, a world champion in skiing as well,
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivica_Kosteli%C4%87)
saying that she is on a different level than he is skiwise.
I have never seen her complain about anything - whether it is a loss, Croatia's poor standing in the FIS decisions, unperfect conditions or severe injuries.

Even though basketball player Draěen Petrović, is much more fabled than she is and almost all Europeans (not just Croats IMO) have a soft spot for him, I think there is a consensus in my country that she is the best Croatian athlete of all time. Also a product of our independent state (her father TBH), not Yugoslavian sports system. Born in a land without a real ski track, without skiing tradition, without money, her career and success are truly astonishing.

English trailer from the documentary about her and her family:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzHgeY-uu7I
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Androslav on January 22, 2018, 06:31:32 AM
Lance Armstrong in cycling.
His use of performance-enhancing drugs puts a big cloud over him being GOAT in cycling.
eh. Everyone doped. He did better while doping than everyone else. I think Barry Bonds should be in the hall too. He is one of the greatest baseball players ever. He was juicing, but he was better at it than anyone else while juicing and it's not even remotely close. In fact, I think Barry Bonds himself has a reasonable argument for GOAT.
In my book, to be the GOAT, you have to posses sportsmanship. Lance doesn't.
Including him in these conversations is degrading the other, true "giants".
"Everyone is doped" is not a true statement at all and is just watering down his failures as a professional athlete.
No place for these types on this thread IMO.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Roy H. on January 22, 2018, 07:33:26 AM
I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT? 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: eja117 on January 22, 2018, 07:37:31 AM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: eja117 on January 22, 2018, 08:39:14 AM
I look at the records/stats, but another major thing I look at was how far ahead of the next best guy was he, and then I look a little at the era they played in.

Like Babe Ruth...sorta a special case and a good illustration.  He was on his way to a HOF pitcher's career. Then mid career switches and changes the game as the best long ball hitter of all time. But look at how much better he was.  I think....in the year he hit 60 the next closest was Lou Gehrig with 47 and then the next was like 18.  He was more than 3 times better than the 3rd best guy. Then look at what it took to break 60.  Look at what it took to break his career record.  He would have had more had he not pitched, right? I realize there was no DH back then....yet...still.

Look at Secretariat.  Yes other horses have run almost as fast, but look how much he won by. He made the other race horses look like ponies.

Jim Brown. Almost certainly the best RB. Not only is he still in the top ten for all time rushing yards, but he did it when they played 12 games a year and he retired when he was 30.

But there are some downsides.....Otto Graham ....7 rings...but the league was like a third as big. So you gotta dock him

Bill Russell.....unfortunately the league in 1956 had 8 teams...by the time he finished it had 14. So you gotta look at other stuff. 2 time NCAA champion. Player coached those last two rings. Major high jumper. Olympic gold.  And he never got distracted by gambling or baseball or Nike.

Hockey is a tough one for me. I think Nick made very good points.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 08:46:19 AM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

The argument for Montana has come down to "well Joe never lost a superbowl". That is the one argument.

There are about 30 arguments why Brady is the GOAT. My favorite: he's not even done playing yet.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: jambr380 on January 22, 2018, 08:47:08 AM
I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT?

I always just assumed that the best football player has to be a QB since it is the most important position. Jerry Rice would have been fantastic without Montana/Young (and dare I say Rich Gannon), but as much as he dominated, the game was never officially in his hands.

Running backs can have control of a team, but their longevity usually leaves something to be desired. I would say that is the case with Brown. Also, when a player that has never won a super bowl is often compared to you as being the best ever (Barry Sanders), that has to have an effect on this particular poll.

A player like LT (and defensive players in general) I suppose have a different argument; they are, afterall, the other 'half' of the game. Also, teams like Baltimore and TB have won SBs with less than stellar QBs. Still, though, as great as a defensive player is, his success is still highly dependent on the rest of the defense as a whole.

For this reason (and because I am a native New Englander!), I go with Brady. 8 SB appearances (hopefully 6th SB win) is unheard of and he has the resume to back it up.

Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 08:48:02 AM
I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT?
Yeah this is where I'm at.  It is the same in baseball with hitters vs. pitchers.  I think goalies, defenders, and scorers are also harder to judge against each other in both hockey and soccer. 
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: green_bballers13 on January 22, 2018, 08:50:38 AM
1-2-3
Mays-Williams-Ruth
Gretzky-Howe-Orr
Brady-Brown-Montana
Russell-Jordan-James


None of these is an easy choice, you can pick some one else of these top 3 and not embarrass yourselves, and I wonít get into any back and forth troll fest if you idiots donít agree.


The mods can lock the thread now.

Yikes. You a jaguars fan?

I agree with this list, besides Russell. I think it goes Jordan-Kobe-Lebron. Please don't yell at me now!
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: eja117 on January 22, 2018, 09:04:03 AM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

The argument for Montana has come down to "well Joe never lost a superbowl". That is the one argument.

There are about 30 arguments why Brady is the GOAT. My favorite: he's not even done playing yet.
He lost other games that resulted in him failing to reach the SB as many times as Brady.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: trickybilly on January 22, 2018, 09:13:08 AM
Phil Taylor - Darts

Eddie merxx - time trial

Usain Bolt

Someone said Serena, but has she got clean air? Don't follow tennis

Maybe Lauren Jackson or Sue Bird?

Donald Trump



Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: KGs Knee on January 22, 2018, 10:28:10 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.
That's just not true about how people feel about Orr outside of Boston. Real hockey enthusiasts see Gretzky and Orr on the same level with Orr being more transformstive to how hockey is played and Gretzky being how much hockey is dominated in the manner that Orr transformed it. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? For me its Orr.

I've spent my entire life around hockey enthusiasts. I grew up playing the sport from the time I could walk. I've traveled to play hockey in multiple countries.

Yes, Orr is revered for being pretty much the first defensive player to also be a good offensive player. But the number of people outside of Boston who think he is on Gretzky's level is more or less nonexistent.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 10:52:33 AM
If you didn't watch and live through the Bobby Orr era of hockey, then you just will not ever understand how he transformed the game of hockey and why he was the GOAT of hockey. When Orr was on the ice the best offensive player, the best defensive player and the best fighter were on the ice at the same time. He transformed the way defensemen were used and looked at as a weapon. He was putting up points that were unheard of for his position and his time. Players were afraid to mix it up with him because he would beat their asses. And....he was easily the best defensive player in the league. How many times were the best offensive and defensive players in the league were the same person? Once. Bobby Orr. Had Orr been playing during the time of orthroscopic knee surgery, there is zero doubt he would be the GOAT in hockey.
I didnt watch Orr, but Ive just got a really really hard time believing he's better than, or even in the conversation with Gretzky.
You may be right on Gretzky. However, you need to read up and watch Orr. A very strong case can be made for him as GOAT. And even if Gretzky is better, it is not the margin you seem to imply.
Like I said, won't claim to know hockey very well at all. Shouldnt have made the claim on Gretzky being GOAT without really knowing the sport, but some of those stats are just mind-boggling.

Gretzky is the GOAT of all GOATS.  He dominated his sport more than any player has ever dominated any sport.  Defense is played the way it is today because of him.  Goalies wear the size padding they do today because the only way to stop him from scoring was to wear larger pads.

Orr is an icon of Boston sports, and one of the top 5 hockey players of all time, but you won't find anyone outside of Boston sports fans that would ever claim he was better than Gretzky.
That's just not true about how people feel about Orr outside of Boston. Real hockey enthusiasts see Gretzky and Orr on the same level with Orr being more transformstive to how hockey is played and Gretzky being how much hockey is dominated in the manner that Orr transformed it. What comes first, the chicken or the egg? For me its Orr.

I've spent my entire life around hockey enthusiasts. I grew up playing the sport from the time I could walk. I've traveled to play hockey in multiple countries.

Yes, Orr is revered for being pretty much the first defensive player to also be a good offensive player. But the number of people outside of Boston who think he is on Gretzky's level is more or less nonexistent.
because he isn't.  Gretzky is the GOAT and it isn't close.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Moranis on January 22, 2018, 10:53:08 AM
Russell. Am I truly the only one who believes Jordan is overrated?
Im sure on a 49ers fanblog somewhere someone has just posted.

"Montana. Am I truly the only one who believes Brady is overrated?"

Jordan is the GOAT.
I'd agree.  Brady is not clearly GOAT over Montana and Jordan is the GOAT.
Well Brady isn't the GOAT over Montana. He's the GOAT over everyone that ever played the sport

The argument for Montana has come down to "well Joe never lost a superbowl". That is the one argument.

There are about 30 arguments why Brady is the GOAT. My favorite: he's not even done playing yet.
He lost other games that resulted in him failing to reach the SB as many times as Brady.
be careful or you might start making the James over Jordan argument.
Title: Re: Who are the athletes that are clear far and away GOATs of their sports?
Post by: Wretch on January 22, 2018, 12:14:20 PM
I have always had a harder time ranking football players than players in other sports. Realistically, how do you rank Brady vs. Jerry Rice vs. Jim Brown vs. LT?
LT was a great player but I view him as being a bit overrated. Look at his stats versus Andre Tippet, who played in the same era. LT had the benefit of playing in NY and on SB winning teams which helped inflate his reputation. 

This is no way saying that LT isn't an all time great but I don't think he compares to Brady, Montana, Rice, Jim Brown in the GOAT conversation.