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Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: Boise To Boston on January 04, 2018, 12:42:46 PM

Title: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Boise To Boston on January 04, 2018, 12:42:46 PM
It's looking more and more like the Lakers might gift us a 2-5 pick, although Lonzo/Lopez coming back from injury could change their trajectory a bit.  Plus having Lavar's focus over in Lithuania can't be a bad thing for his oldest kid.

All that aside, I'm curious to know what you all think of the current Top-6 (Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, Porter, Young) and how they fit with our team both in the short term (next 2 seasons) and long term (next 5-6 years).  Here's my take just as a starting point, but I'm really curious to know what you all think:

Doncic - He strikes me as a 2/3 who becomes the primary ball-handler, similar to the way Pippen brought the ball up for the Bulls or how LBJ does (comparisons stop there).  I'd love a lineup small-ball lineup with Irving, Brown, Doncic, Hayward, and Tatum/Horford.  But when you write all those names out, you start to see the issue with taking him - ANOTHER wing.  Just seems like we need a big more than another wing, especially as Horford ages.

Ayton - He seems like the best fit of anyone to me.  He has range with his shot.  He's a beast on the boards, and he's the most freakish athlete of anyone in the draft.  His defense is improving and when you bring him under the wings of Stevens, Irving, Horford, etc. - I think he'll continue to get better.  Having him on the floor switching everything allows you to play small ball without actually going small - and that's the sort of thing that could give top-notch WC teams fits.

Bagley - Similar to Ayton, but minus the shooting touch and rim-protection potential.  Probably a better defender and rebounder now.  When he develops he'd be like Baynes but with better lateral quickness and the ability to switch onto smaller defenders.

Young - Who can't use a 3-pt bomber?  Reminds me a lot of Kyrie, but I'm not sure that using two small guards is what Stevens wants to do long-term.  He'd come off the bench in the short run, and probably makes either Tito or Smart expendable long-term.   

Bamba -Elite rim protector with soft touch on the mid-range J.  Certainly a guy you can use in spurts, but I'm not sure he can stay on the floor vs. small ball centers - especially with what seems to be a lack of any ability to make them pay with his offensive game.

Porter - Might be the best offensive prospect in the draft, but I wouldn't touch him with a 2-5 pick given the other 5 guys on the board.  I just can't get on board with a skinny guy who's almost 7-feet tall who misses an entire season of basketball due to a back injury before his 20th birthday.  The risk is too high.

Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Birdman on January 04, 2018, 01:11:15 PM
Great post!! TP..I would pass on Porter..back surgery at his age is risking...Doncic I would also pass..how many euro players actually become great players..very few...other 4 I would take in order:
1 Bagley
2 ayron
3 young
4 bamba
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Phantom255x on January 04, 2018, 01:16:35 PM
Ayton or Bagley!
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: konkmv on January 04, 2018, 01:30:35 PM
ayton bagley porter
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: saltlover on January 04, 2018, 01:33:46 PM
Honestly, we have a versatile roster and a terrific coach — the best player will be the best fit.  Be it Doncic to alleviate the potential loss of Smart as a ballhandler while being a 6’8” wing, or one of the bigs, there will be an immediate role for the player to contribute in a way that takes advantages of his skills.  There’s no need to worry about fit — if you pick a guy who can play, he’ll fit.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Phantom255x on January 04, 2018, 01:35:38 PM
Honestly, we have a versatile roster and a terrific coach — the best player will be the best fit.  Be it Doncic to alleviate the potential loss of Smart as a ballhandler while being a 6’8” wing, or one of the bigs, there will be an immediate role for the player to contribute in a way that takes advantages of his skills.  There’s no need to worry about fit — if you pick a guy who can play, he’ll fit.

Oh yeah that's true. Our needs could be a bit adjusted depending on what happens with Smart this summer.

Like now Young and Doncic don't look like "ideal fits", but if Smart goes elsewhere, more on this forum/blog will probably want them.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Csfan1984 on January 04, 2018, 02:17:35 PM
-Ayton is ideal with his skills and size. Combines Theis and Baynes strengths.
-Porter gives the team another Tatum which is scary.
-Doncic is perfect if we lose Smart. He has leadership and the ability to play multiple positions.
-Carter fits well with the style we want our bigs to play. Shows some nice defense as well.
-Mikal Bridges has a lot of skills and could be the best producing player of the draft for first two years in the league.
Besides that not much I see as "fits". DA was right to just top protect it.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: nickagneta on January 04, 2018, 03:32:53 PM
I think if Doncic is on the board, you have to take him. Then that selection basically becomes the death knoll for Smart's time with the Celtics. Doncic will be on a 4 year cost controlled contract and would help keep the luxury tax payment lower. Also, Doncic is the most ready player available with one of the highest upsides. Gotta take him for maximizing both short term and long term team success.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: liam on January 04, 2018, 03:43:13 PM
I think if Doncic is on the board, you have to take him. Then that selection basically becomes the death knoll for Smart's time with the Celtics. Doncic will be on a 4 year cost controlled contract and would help keep the luxury tax payment lower. Also, Doncic is the most ready player available with one of the highest upsides. Gotta take him for maximizing both short term and long term team success.

I agree about Doncic he's looking like the best player in this draft but if you can sign Smart to any kind of reasonable contract you keep him.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Who on January 04, 2018, 03:53:01 PM
Doncic = ball-handling, passing, shooting and defensive versatility.

Checks all the boxes.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Sophomore on January 04, 2018, 03:56:29 PM
Ayton, Bagley, Doncic.

Horford is a critical and undervalued member of this team. If he is injured or has to be let go for salary reasons he’s leaving an enormous hole. Ayton or Bagley won’t do exactly what he does, but they are huge upgrades over the Cs next-best big-man options and should be ready to contribute in their rookie years, addressing real needs on the glass and for low-post scoring - potentially in a player who doesn’t have to leave the floor against small-ball lineups.

They also give the Cs a chance of putting a team on the floor with all-star or near all-star talent in five positions - in three years, consider: Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, (Ayton/Bagley). With two of those contracts being roookie deals you can have them all.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: JBcat on January 04, 2018, 04:08:46 PM
I think if Doncic is on the board, you have to take him. Then that selection basically becomes the death knoll for Smart's time with the Celtics. Doncic will be on a 4 year cost controlled contract and would help keep the luxury tax payment lower. Also, Doncic is the most ready player available with one of the highest upsides. Gotta take him for maximizing both short term and long term team success.

I don’t think we would have to let Smart go, at least right away. Doncic can play the 3 as well.  I’d at least like to re-sign Smart, and can trade him later on maybe part of a bigger trade so we don’t lose that asset. 

However ownership will have say in this because of the luxury tax bill. 

Maybe we could do a S&T with Smart as another option but those types of trades seem pretty rare these days.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: CFAN38 on January 04, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
A case can be made that any of the top 6 Ayton, Bagely, Doncic, Porter, Bamba and Young would be a nice fit for the Celtics.

Ranking them from worst to best fit.

Bagely, probably fits the team the worst. His lack of rim protection as a 4/5 could be a problem long term. Though he is a great fit on offense.

Young, is an amazing prospect but may have trouble finishing at the rim on offense and I would worry about the defensive liability of he and Irving together on the court.

Doncic, he is another player who is a great fit on offense who may take time to adjust on defense. On a team deep with wings he would provide high level play making for the second unit.

Porter, his health will be the big question. If healthy he is a stud prospect who would give the Cs a legit issue with to much of a good thing at the wing. He could grow into one of the elite scoring wings in the league.

Bamba, others on this list may have broader more developed high end skill sets but Bamba has the makings of a generational defensive talent. His combination of obscene length, good timing, and high end positional lateral quickness could make him a defensive player of the year candidate at a young age. His offense is limited but he has good hands and right now is a good pick and dive big. At a young age he appears to have a better touch then similar defensive bigs (ex Jordan, Howard) and could very well develop a usable pick and pop game.

Ayton, he is the most complete big man to enter the league in years (less of a project then Embiid was). He will enter the league as one of the most complete offensive 7's in the league and is just a solid coaching job short of being a top 5 defensive center.   

Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: OldSchoolDude on January 20, 2018, 06:17:24 PM
ayton bagley porter

^  this!
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: CelticsElite on January 20, 2018, 06:54:03 PM
As another said, the case can be made for anyone being a net positive on our team.

Which makes an interesting situation where danny may feel comfortable to trade down yet again
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: hwangjini_1 on January 20, 2018, 07:36:23 PM
Great post!! TP..I would pass on Porter..back surgery at his age is risking...Doncic I would also pass..how many euro players actually become great players..very few...other 4 I would take in order:
1 Bagley
2 ayron
3 young
4 bamba
and how many US college players become great players? ... very few. maybe we should pass on them as well?  ::)
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Celtics4ever on January 20, 2018, 08:28:28 PM
Quote
and how many US college players become great players? ... very few. maybe we should pass on them as well?

But the list of NBA Greats who played in US College is long, isn't it?
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: CELTICSofBOSTON on January 20, 2018, 09:31:29 PM
I’m team Ayton.  Honestly, fit isn’t a major issue with any of the prospects in this draft.  My philosophy is always take best player available, especially with a coach like Stevens who isn’t afraid to mix and match lineups.  If one player makes me question “fit”,  it’s maybe Young because he is smallish. However, Stevens has no problems playing super small lineups like Thomas-Rozier-Bradley or Larkin-Irving-Rozier etc.

Back to Ayton, he just checks too many boxes and at this point I have no idea why he isn’t considered the consensus #1 pick.  In my opinion he is easily the best prospect in the last two drafts (at least).  I have a feeling that he will go #1 so unfortunately we will probably not have a chance to select him, but if we are so lucky, the Celtics should take him in a millisecond.

He will fit in beautifully in the short term with Horford, Theis, Morris, and Tatum in the frontcourt (Baynes is a FA this offseason).  That mix of guys up front gives us a little bit of everything as far as versatility up front, allowing the C’s to go big with Horford at the 4, small with him at the 5, etc all while having a bunch of skilled bigs who can shoot and defend (Ayton biggest weakness but has the tools).  Once Horford is gone (I love Al so this will stink for me), Ayton can assume the role of starting Center of a monster starting unit of Kyrie Irving- Jaylen Brown - Gordon Hayward - Jayson Tatum - Deandre Ayton.

When tackling the question “who fits the team better?” There are two schools of thought: 1. Who can carry out our game plan the best and 2. Who fills in a need.  Theoretically, Ayton does both of these things.  1. Stevens loves bigs who can spread the floor and pass. I believe Ayton is already excellent at one of these things: shooting for a big.  He is above 70% on free throws and is automatic from midrange. As far as passing,  he is definitely above average and can operate from the high post like Al Horford.  He also has some switchability defensively because of his super human lateral quickness. Perfect fit for our system on both ends.

The other  thing: “who fills a need?” I also believe Ayton is the best answer to this question.  We could use some size up front especially with Baynes a FA.  We could also use a more consistent post prensence and even though we are better on the boards this year,  we are still far from great at rebounding.  Ayton could help fix that.

In summary,  Ayton is simultaneously the best fit for our team, the player who fills the biggest need, and most importantly: the best prospect in the draft.  My answer is Ayton, and the other prospects (Bagley, Bamba, Doncic, Porter, Young, Jackson jr in that order) are not close.

Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: gouki88 on January 20, 2018, 10:41:30 PM
Doncic = ball-handling, passing, shooting and defensive versatility.

Checks all the boxes.
Yeah, I’m on team Doncic. He’s gritty too
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: TheisTheisBaby on January 20, 2018, 10:51:47 PM
While Doncic may be the most pro-ready guy and the most skilled, it'd be hard to pass up drafting Ayton to team with Kyrie, JB, and Tatum for the foreseeable future.  He could come in and help extend Horford's career just by allowing Brad to limit Al's minutes the next few years.  Al could become our version of Bill Walton. 

My wild card is Young.  Anyone who can shoot and score like that and potentially be the next Steph Curry is REALLY hard to let go to someone else.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Sophomore on January 20, 2018, 11:34:13 PM
Doncic = ball-handling, passing, shooting and defensive versatility.

Checks all the boxes.
Yeah, I’m on team Doncic. He’s gritty too

Do you read Cleaning the Glass? He’s really not sold; thinks Doncic might be an all-star, but might also be just a rotation guy. He put up some footage - Doncic having a *lot* of trouble defending former, marginal NBA players, where it looks like his lack of lateral mobility is really a problem. He also had trouble getting separation or finishing at the rim against guys with NBA-level size/quicks.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: vjcsmoke on January 21, 2018, 12:30:49 AM
I was watching and comparing Ayton vs Bagley.

The flat arc on Ayton's shot worries me a lot.  There is no way he is consistently making an NBA 3 without reconstructing his shot.  As the flat arc will make him clang too many shoots from NBA range 3.  Yes he is bigger and stronger than Bagley.  I think defensively he is a better prospect.  I think size-wise and phyiscal strength he is ready for the NBA already.

But watching them back to back, I'm going to say that Bagley looks like a better fit for the Celtics.  His rebounding is voracious and his length is incredible.  If he develops his game and his strength he could be a devastating 20/10 player in the NBA.  If he gets the ball in the paint nobody can stop him one on one.  The bigs are too slow to keep up with his agility and shorter players are just overpowered or not long enough to contain him. 

Marvin's shooting form looks solid.  Even though he doesn't shoot a lot of 3's  he is hitting a respectable 34% without any noticeable 'hitch' to his shot.  His 63% free throws worries me.  But our own Jaylen Brown is a 45%/40%/65% shooter.  With the regularity that Bagley scores in the paint he could be a 60/35/65 shooter.  Which isn't bad but you would hope he could push up the percentages with more practice.

There's also the Duke connection.  3 Dukies on the same NBA basketball team as starters, when has that EVER happened in the NBA?  I'm thinking never.  Marvin just looks more versatile too me and probably is a better fit for the Celtics system.  He just needs to develop his game more in all areas.  Get his body stronger and thicker, develop the 16-18 foot spot up, develop his 3 point shooting to at least get his corner jumpers consistent, etc.

I feel like the fact that Ayton is rated higher right now is a favor for the Celtics.  If we keep the pick instead of trading it for Anthony Davis, drafting Marvin Bagley  at 2 or 3 could potentially be a building block level player for the Celtics for the next 10 years.
Title: Re: Which '18 Prospect fits best with Stevens and our short/long term roster?
Post by: Sophomore on January 21, 2018, 12:37:36 AM
They’re all interesting. One thing I really like about Bagley, aside from his physical skills, is his motor and competitiveness. Doesn’t seem like a guy who’ll coast; he wants to win.