CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: Phantom255x on January 03, 2018, 12:43:52 PM
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21941260/nba-playing-lebron-winning-nba-title-kyrie-irving-decided-move-question-why
TITLE: Behind Kyrie Irving's controversial departure from Cleveland -- and what he hopes to find in Boston
I won't post the entire article in quotes here (it's VERY LONG), but I recommend it. It's a great read and well put together by Jackie MacMullan, talking about Irving's path to the NBA, his time in Cleveland, his controversial departure from Cleveland this past August, his trade request, and what he hopes to accomplish here.
The MOST interesting part of this article is what was omitted from the whole "trade request saga", that Irving says Cleveland was trying to trade him even before he made the request, and he felt like he was going to be the "odd-man out" anyways (since it seemed there was no suitors for Kevin Love in trade talks).
Lebron was asked about this apparently, and denied it, BUT ALSO got testy with reporters sort of before just walking out.
Some reports even say that in the off season, Irving was discussed in trade talks as well, for guys like Paul George and Eric Bledsoe.
I honestly could see this. If no one wanted Love in trades (poor Love), then their next option was an Irving trade (b/c it's not like they had a high draft pick coming in the future to deal in trades), and although they didn't deal him, Irving said "he felt it coming (a trade)".
I think ultimately, he left Cleveland because of this, AND because he believes it's very likely Lebron leaves this summer, in which case he doesn't want to be "left behind" with the mess in Cleveland, since lets be honest, most of the team is old right now and would go right back to a long-term rebuild once LBJ left. So Irving left before that could happen and is here now in Boston. He must have also felt a bit disrespected by the idea that the Cavs were putting him in legitimate trade talks.
Just thought I'd share. Great read, and hope we have a great game tonight! ;D
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Great read. Thank you!
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I remembering hearing about that too - I think was something discussed around the draft with his name in it.
People love giving him a hard time, but playing on a Lebron team means you have no control over your future. Everything's catered to him and he's not even committed to stay there. Even before Kyrie ended up on the Celtics, I had no issue with him wanting out of Cleveland. You can tell the leadership there isn't strong and the chaos of Will Lebron Stay or Leave has to be difficult to play through 24/7. I never had an issue with Kyrie wanting more stability.
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Ugh! I hate BSPN so I won't click on the link but thanks for posting what you could.
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I like Kyrie, and I think he's a clear upgrade over IT, but I wonder about the double standard some celtics fans have here. Would you all that are overjoyed and 'totally understanding' of Kyrie's request be ok if IT had done the same thing? If the celts tried to trade him, and then a few months later he tried to request a trade I don't think we'd see the same feelings on celticsblog.
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I like Kyrie, and I think he's a clear upgrade over IT, but I wonder about the double standard some celtics fans have here. Would you all that are overjoyed and 'totally understanding' of Kyrie's request be ok if IT had done the same thing? If the celts tried to trade him, and then a few months later he tried to request a trade I don't think we'd see the same feelings on celticsblog.
I remember Isaiah trying to dictate his market value more than a full year before free agency, that he was a max player and ownership should back up the brink truck. What was his motivation to make those comments public? Was he laying the groundwork that if the Celtics didn't give him a max contract, that he would leave for free agency? In a way, Isaiah kind of made a trade request with his brink trucks comment. The difference being Isaiah went public and added his signature smile, while Kyrie chose to let things play out behind closed doors.
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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."
That's kind of concerning.
Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.
Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....
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I like Kyrie, and I think he's a clear upgrade over IT, but I wonder about the double standard some celtics fans have here. Would you all that are overjoyed and 'totally understanding' of Kyrie's request be ok if IT had done the same thing? If the celts tried to trade him, and then a few months later he tried to request a trade I don't think we'd see the same feelings on celticsblog.
I remember Isaiah trying to dictate his market value more than a full year before free agency, that he was a max player and ownership should back up the brink truck. What was his motivation to make those comments public? Was he laying the groundwork that if the Celtics didn't give him a max contract, that he would leave for free agency? In a way, Isaiah kind of made a trade request with his brink trucks comment. The difference being Isaiah went public and added his signature smile, while Kyrie chose to let things play out behind closed doors.
He was very open about what he felt he deserved, that is true, but it is no where near requesting a trade. If Kyrie weren't available Isaiah is probably making his debut tonight against Cleveland at home. Players are allowed to talk about what they think they're worth. It just feels to me because the Celtics were on the good end of the Kyrie trade people are happy, but if we were on the other end many wouldn't be too quick to spout out niceties
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I don't recall all of the trade rumors, but I thought this was interesting from the article:
"In mid-June, shortly before Griffin left, team and league sources confirm, the Cavs explored a three-way deal with Phoenix and Indiana that would have shipped Irving and Frye to the Suns and brought Eric Bledsoe and Paul George to Cleveland. The Suns resisted, unwilling to part with their No. 4 pick, which they planned to use to draft Josh Jackson."
Apparently Josh Jackson had a lot to do with the Celtics this off season. Between refusing to work out for Danny, and the Suns unwilling to trade the #4 pick to acquire Kyrie Irving.
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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."
That's kind of concerning.
Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.
Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....
This year the challenge is to carry this team and advance as far as possible with Hayward hurt
Next Year challenge= gel with Hayward and compete or win Title
*resigns due to the following year's challenge of repeating success with another Title chance.
Then we will have him signed for a few years.
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Interesting that Jackie intimates that Lebron might have been behind the Irving to Phoenix and Bledsoe and George to Cleveland trade because Bledsoe and Lebron are both represented from the same management group. If that's true, I can understand Kyrie not wanting to be around Lebron any more and going to management to request a trade.
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Lebron doesn't win this year. I expect he thought Lebron bolting was inevitable and the colapse of Cleveland to the basement the same .
i think he missed his college carreer and true team basketball. He wanted to operate on a team oriented , coach led , structured organization. Cavs spend their whole life chasing Lebron around catering to his whims . This might get old for some players to endure for years. Wade is a better teamate for lebron and his street ball game.
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Thanks for the article, very interesting! TP
I wonder how Kyrie will feel the first time he hears his name come up in trade rumors down the road. Not many have not heard their name yearly- even Pierce heard it a few times. If he hears it before he is given a long term contract, it could be adios Kyrie- Danny needs to be careful if the plan is to keep him for a long time to come(which I would imagine it is).
One thing that is clear, is that Kyrie wants to feel valued and not disrespected. What happened to IT to get Kyrie here gives me pause that history could repeat itself unless Danny has assured him he will not be traded- He can not be given a no trade clause though as he has not played for the Celtics for more then 4 years so I am not sure how he gets around this potential problem. What if in 2 years, Kyrie believes he will never be secure here from our immediate past with IT and bolts? A big worry.
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Confirms that lebron is the GM:
Kyrie Irving came to believe the camp of LeBron James orchestrated trade talks involving him last June shortly before the departure of David Griffin.
The Cavaliers explored a three-way trade with the Suns and Pacers that would have seen Irving and Channing Frye to to the Suns with Eric Bledsoe and Paul George going to Cleveland. The Suns resisted the scenario over the No. 4 pick. Phoenix used that pick on Josh Jackson.
Team and league sources refute the notion that James' camp initiated the talks as it was Griffin that pursued the deal on his own. Griffin sensed the unhappiness of Irving and was preparing for the possibility that he would request a trade.
Irving remained silent about how the Cavaliers explored trading him when his trade request became public.
"I didn't feel the need to say anything because I knew the truth, and so did they," Irving said. "So it didn't matter what others said. They didn't want me there."
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."
That's kind of concerning.
Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.
Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....
Well Danny Ainge needs new adventures every couple of years too and will probably trade Kyrie at just the right time for the next best thing. ;)
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As Scott says today, "Kyrie is one of those players who gets bored after a couple of years. He's wired differently than most. He needs to be stimulated. He needs another adventure."
That's kind of concerning.
Whereas IT still seems sad that he's not playing for the Celtics.
Hopefully the Celts continue to provide new adventures and challenges for Kyrie ....
I get where Kyrie is coming from. About once every two years I find another job. Been at my current position for 27 months, and last night I submitted an application to go somewhere else. Some of us just get bored a little more quickly, or get that feeling like if you stay in one place you’ll fall off the Earth.
(P.S. Danny, if you’re reading this, I’d never get bored working for you.)
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random thought
remember when folks toasted Jackie regarding the Rumor that Ainge was shopping IT4 in the 2016 draft
looks like she was right
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The most astonishing thing from that article is that the Cavs had a 3 team trade lined up with Pheonix and Indiana to send out Irving and Channing Frye and get back Eric Bledsoe and Paul George but the sticking point became that the Cavs insisted on getting the Sun's #4 pick (which became Josh Jackson) which they weren't willing to give up.
Holy cow... Imagine Eric Bledsoe, Paul George, Lebron James, Kevin Love, and Tristan Thompson on the same team? Jeeze... I guess a guaranteed Championship wasn't enough for the Cavs.
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The most astonishing thing from that article is that the Cavs had a 3 team trade lined up with Pheonix and Indiana to send out Irving and Channing Frye and get back Eric Bledsoe and Paul George but the sticking point became that the Cavs insisted on getting the Sun's #4 pick (which became Josh Jackson) which they weren't willing to give up.
Holy cow... Imagine Eric Bledsoe, Paul George, Lebron James, Kevin Love, and Tristan Thompson on the same team? Jeeze... I guess a guaranteed Championship wasn't enough for the Cavs.
I dont think the Cavs insisted on the #4 pick.
I think Phoenix had to agree to give it up to Indiana in exchange for Irving.
They refused. Not really the Cavs being greedy.
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random thought
remember when folks toasted Jackie regarding the Rumor that Ainge was shopping IT4 in the 2016 draft
looks like she was right
No, that rumor was still a load of hokum.
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Interesting that Jackie intimates that Lebron might have been behind the Irving to Phoenix and Bledsoe and George to Cleveland trade because Bledsoe and Lebron are both represented from the same management group. If that's true, I can understand Kyrie not wanting to be around Lebron any more and going to management to request a trade.
It's pretty clear Lebron is running things in Cleveland (if it wasn't already clear).
Kyrie saw that, and bolted before Lebron could do anything else (or before Lebron left and left him with the "mess").
EVEN if Lebron stays, that team around him is not sustainable. Lots of bad contracts, paying into the luxury tax already and still have guys like Isaiah to pay. And good luck getting rid of some of the "dead-weight" contracts.
They won't be able to sign anymore max deals for a while, or have the assets necessary to add another star without shopping Love and/or the Nets Pick (which seems more like a lateral move, unless somehow it lands you Anthony Davis).
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
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Interesting that Jackie intimates that Lebron might have been behind the Irving to Phoenix and Bledsoe and George to Cleveland trade because Bledsoe and Lebron are both represented from the same management group. If that's true, I can understand Kyrie not wanting to be around Lebron any more and going to management to request a trade.
Jackie doesn't intimate that, she says that Irving believed James was behind it, though Jackie pretty clearly reports Griffin initiated the talks because he was aware that Irving was unhappy.
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I'm surprised at the "leaving is inevitable" tag, as I didn't get that from the article. Maybe after they started shopping him that was the case, but it didn't come across that way to me prior to that.
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
Says a lot about what kind of leader LBJ is too though. He left MIA to play with younger stars, Kyrie in particular, then forced the trade for Love. And he didn't keep them together. Doesn't seem like he tried. He just dominates every aspect of a franchise.
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As far as the quotes were Kyrie was disgruntled: well he sounds disgruntled. He was angry because they tried to trade him and he wasn't happy with how they were playing or the dynamic between him and LeBron. I wouldn't make a big deal out of a guy showing that frustration. The "ask 23" comment to me just shows Kyrie poking at how it is all LeBron's team. He was always the off ball guy, not the playmaker who runs things.
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As far as the quotes were Kyrie was disgruntled: well he sounds disgruntled. He was angry because they tried to trade him and he wasn't happy with how they were playing or the dynamic between him and LeBron. I wouldn't make a big deal out of a guy showing that frustration. The "ask 23" comment to me just shows Kyrie poking at how it is all LeBron's team. He was always the off ball guy, not the playmaker who runs things.
except last year when Irving had the ball more than James (he took more shots also).
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Regarding the fear of Kyrie to get bored and also the troubling interaction with Lue, I think Brad Stevens helps a lot with both.
Stevens being a good coach is too often thrown around as a cure-all for any potential problems but I think, in this case, his style is perfectly suited to dealing with Kyrie's issues. Stevens is the type of coach who can bring players into the fold and make them feel like they're part of the process. He dictates principles, but not plays and not style. And he knows that someone like Kyrie needs to be involved and that Kyrie is intelligent enough to make him a sort of partner as a team leader.
I think that same thing helps with the fear of Kyrie getting bored. He got bored in Cleveland when everything was about Lebron and all he was being asked to do was score. By being asked to do more for the Celtics (in terms of leadership both on and off the court) he's less likely to get bored.
And I think Stevens is not the kind of coach to go to a player and say something as simplistic as "play faster." I'm no NBA coach but that type of direction seems like it wouldn't be all that effective for anyone, especially someone who thinks of himself as an intellectual like Kyrie. A good coach knows that different people are reached in different ways. I think Stevens knows that and Kyrie's own admission about that exchange is encouraging.
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
That quote DEFINITELY shows that Kyrie handled that situation like a complete Diva.
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
That quote DEFINITELY shows that Kyrie handled that situation like a complete Diva.
Certainly not a shining moment for Kyrie but I think you can also chalk a lot of that up to being young & immature. Like most early to mid 20 somethings.
It's eyeopening but not entirely unexpected given age & position.
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
That quote DEFINITELY shows that Kyrie handled that situation like a complete Diva.
Certainly not a shining moment for Kyrie but I think you can also chalk a lot of that up to being young & immature. Like most early to mid 20 somethings.
It's eyeopening but not entirely unexpected given age & position.
It was like 8 months ago, though. It wasn't like it was 4 years ago and he has matured since then.
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Some quotes here make Irving look pretty bad:
During a rare practice in the middle of last season, coach Tyronn Lue, who was standing next to assistant coach and Irving confidant Phil Handy, called out to his young point guard.
"Ky," Lue said, "I want you to play a little faster."
"Why?" Irving asked.
"Because if we play faster, we get shots off easier."
"I don't need to play faster to get my shot off," Irving replied. "I can do that anytime."
"I'm not talking about your shot. I'm talking about RJ and JR," Lue said, citing teammates Richard Jefferson and Smith.
"Well, that's No. 23's job," Irving replied, referring to James.
According to members of the Cavs organization who witnessed the exchange, Lue ended the conversation by walking away, shaking his head.
oof
Irving, for his part, laments the fact that his conversation with Lue ended without a resolution. "At that time, we had probably lost a few [games]," Irving says now. "[Lue] is coming up to me and saying, 'We've got to play faster,' and I probably wasn't willing to accept it at the time. So maybe I'd like a do-over on that.
at least he acknowledges that wasnt the best look.
Yeah that is the concerning part. Your coach asks you to do something and you say no and put the blame on the team's best player. Not a good look at all and very concerning going forward.
That quote DEFINITELY shows that Kyrie handled that situation like a complete Diva.
Certainly not a shining moment for Kyrie but I think you can also chalk a lot of that up to being young & immature. Like most early to mid 20 somethings.
It's eyeopening but not entirely unexpected given age & position.
It was like 8 months ago, though. It wasn't like it was 4 years ago and he has matured since then.
He's 25. Is he a saint? No. None of them are.
Hell, the best player in the league is 33 years old and still runs around doing immature things from time to time.
A lot of this stuff is a combination of ego, age, & being handed stuff to you on a silver platter since you were a kid.
None of this is particularly eye opening.
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I don’t care what he said to who in Cleveland. I have no idea what that team was like or how the players get along or the competency of the coaches. I don’t know what was going on that day or anything else that could’ve possibly been said or done that we don’t know about. I also don’t know who leaked that quote about him and Lue at practice. Could be someone from the James camp and I don’t trust much from them.
All I care about his what he’s doing now and how he and Brad get along. Looks great so far and if it starts to turn south then Danny will just trade him probably.