CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on December 11, 2017, 10:06:05 PM
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Leads keep getting lost. Team is top heavy where a few injuries and we're done.
Who is the worst player or players on the bench.
Any suggestions for Ainge to make the bench better?
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Stay healthy.
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Cut Nader, get Matt Barnes out of retirement ASAP and use the DPE to sign Monroe when he gets bought out.
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Here's a list. There are a number of players on there I would rather have than some of our guys:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents)
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Here's a list. There are a number of players on there I would rather have than some of our guys:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents)
Get Barbosa back on this team...
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Been saying since this summer that this bench wasn't good.
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A guard who can light it up.
Lou Williams would be my fave. Bellineli would be a good option too, more of a shooter than scorer though.
I miss Evan Turner
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Bring back Nate Robinson. Sign Jimmer Fredette to twenty 10-day contracts. Coax Chris Andersen out of retirement for the last year of his 30s. Profit.
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Been saying since this summer that this bench wasn't good.
I think it was Brads fault for staying with unfamiliar unit.
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Been saying since this summer that this bench wasn't good.
I think it was Brads fault for staying with unfamiliar unit.
It has nothing to do with this game. It's always been a bad offense, little experienced bench. Smart and Rozier are just BAD offensive players. Morris is very much a me type player and doesn't really fit the system. Theis and Baynes are great role players but sort of redundant and limited. Nader, Larken, Allen and Bird are just bad.
The injury to Hayward hurt the bench because Tatum isn't coming off the bench but he's never been an offensive focus when playing with the bench. 2 bad offensive players, Smart and Rozier, are the offensive focus with the bench unit.
Luckily, with Hayward hurt, we know we aren't going anywhere this year. So we live with what we have and try to develop bench players but, there is little to develop.
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Been saying since this summer that this bench wasn't good.
I think it was Brads fault for staying with unfamiliar unit.
It has nothing to do with this game. It's always been a bad offense, little experienced bench. Smart and Rozier are just BAD offensive players. Morris is very much a me type player and doesn't really fit the system. Theis and Baynes are great role players but sort of redundant and limited. Nader, Larken, Allen and Bird are just bad.
The injury to Hayward hurt the bench because Tatum isn't coming off the bench but he's never been an offensive focus when playing with the bench. 2 bad offensive players, Smart and Rozier, are the offensive focus with the bench unit.
Luckily, with Hayward hurt, we know we aren't going anywhere this year. So we live with what we have and try to develop bench players but, there is little to develop.
I think there are a LOT of people who [reasonably] think that Hayward will return sometime later this year. Also being 23-6 without him is giving those people a lot of promise that we will actually go somewhere this season.
Our bench does absolutely suck - especially since injuries are forcing us into Nader and Larkin territory, but let's not count out this season quite yet.
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Been saying since this summer that this bench wasn't good.
I think it was Brads fault for staying with unfamiliar unit.
It has nothing to do with this game. It's always been a bad offense, little experienced bench. Smart and Rozier are just BAD offensive players. Morris is very much a me type player and doesn't really fit the system. Theis and Baynes are great role players but sort of redundant and limited. Nader, Larken, Allen and Bird are just bad.
The injury to Hayward hurt the bench because Tatum isn't coming off the bench but he's never been an offensive focus when playing with the bench. 2 bad offensive players, Smart and Rozier, are the offensive focus with the bench unit.
Luckily, with Hayward hurt, we know we aren't going anywhere this year. So we live with what we have and try to develop bench players but, there is little to develop.
I think there are a LOT of people who [reasonably] think that Hayward will return sometime later this year. Also being 23-6 without him is giving those people a lot of promise that we will actually go somewhere this season.
Our bench does absolutely suck - especially since injuries are forcing us into Nader and Larkin territory, but let's not count out this season quite yet.
Let's just say that I think anyone that thinks that Hayward is definitively coming back this year is far from reasonable. Also, without Hayward, we might bo to the ECFs, but we aren't going any farther than that.
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Cut Nader
Nader is a lead killer most every time he gets on the court. We still have more problems. We lack scoring pop.
Also, without Hayward, we might bo to the ECFs, but we aren't going any farther than that.
I feel the same, but I hope I am wrong.
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LOL @ "cut Nader" being the bench solution. He never plays.
The first solution was to move Morris to the bench and start Baynes. That worked. But now he is hurt and could be out a while so they do need to rethink things.
I would ask brad simply to limit the Rozier + Smart lineups. Try to make sure that those two always have two of the Kyrie+Al+Tatum+Brown group with them. Stagger the minutes better. Use Theis more to relieve Al early.
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Here's a list. There are a number of players on there I would rather have than some of our guys:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents)
That's an ugly list but I think Diaw would be a good 2nd unit veteran big.
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LOL @ "cut Nader" being the bench solution. He never plays.
That's shortsighted, though. Cutting Nader has it's advantages, in that it creates another roster spot. This would then give us 2 available roster spots and the use of the DPE. Nader is simply unplayable and having him on the roster does nothing for our team.
The two guys that I'd like us to sign would be Gerald Green and Derrick Williams. I don't think Green is that good, but he can at least soak some minutes and he does have familiarity with our team. Williams is very intriguing. He's pretty athletic, was the #2 overall pick in the draft, and is still only 26. I'm be curious to see how Williams can develop in Stevens' hands as an athletic 4 who shot 40% from 3's for the Cavs last season.
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The typical overreaction to a bad loss on CB is "change everything". Fire Brad! Fire Danny! Trade players! Cut players! This thread is predictable.
You know what our bench should have looked like yesterday? Marcus Morris, Marcus Smart, Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier and Daniel Theis should have been the first guys coming off of it. That seems like a pretty good bench to me and part of a 10 deep roster that rocks. Except we were missing our best two All-Stars and our first guy off the bench for last nights game. Do we think that most other teams would look very good missing their two best players and their 6th man on the same night?
It was a bad night all the way around. The starters shot 6-21 (28%) from 3 point land and 22-52 (42%) from the field. It's not all on the bench here.
Look, we all know the bench is very, very, very inexperienced. When we have a couple of pros to stabilize them (Morris, Smart, Baynes, Horford, etc.) then they can slide into their roles and generally play effectively. They'll learn. But when - like last night - there's no one on the floor with a lot of experience it's going to get ugly in a hurry. And it did. They tried to do too much. Chalk it up as a learning experience and move on rather than overreacting.
It would be nice if Danny uses that cap exception to bring in a bench guy to help stabilize things but he's waiting on the right guy at the right price. And you know what? He can wait. The team is 23-6 and there's no need to rush.
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If the bench needs to be revamped put it out to bid and hire a good reputable carpenter with the right tools, who pays prevailing wages. The bench will be fine.
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rushing to improve the bench this season is only a necessity if we have a legit shot at the title. Without a healthy Hayward, I don't see it. ECF and possibly the finals but beating GSW without Hayward in a 7-game series is just improbable.
Solution: wait til next year for natural improvements
- starters are Kyrie, Hayward, Horford and probably Brown. 5th starter is likely to be Tatum.
- Barring trades, bench becomes Smart (likely resigned to reasonable deal since his offense is still hit or miss), Rozier, Morris (hopefully finally healthy), Theis, Semi. That's not too bad provided there's a mix of 2 starters out there at a time.
Deep bench: C's 1st rounder, Yabu, maybe Lakers' first rounder.
Baynes has likely played himself into a deal larger than the MLE which would be all we could offer.
Bird and Allen may have the 2-way deals again.
Larkin and Nader are very likely gone.
C's have the MLE (if not Baynes) to pick up a decent bench guy or 2.
I'm more than ready to move on from Rozier because he's way too inconsistent and he doesn't have that knack to make big plays in close games that Smart does. The question becomes, who could we trade him for that would consistently contribute?
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Lol at this entire thread. Despite their record, this is the NBA and all teams are filled with quality players... the Bulls are no different. Not sure why you're shocked we lost when we were decimated by injuries.
Secondly our bench is amazing... keep in mind our current ideal starting line up is Kyrie, Brown, Hayward, Morris and Horford.
Our actual bench is Smart, Rozier, Tatum, Baynes, Semi, Theis... mix in rotations with starters and we're more than fine. I wouldn't knee jerk and do anything except for a quick rental using DPE like Noel... but wouldn't get rid of anyone
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I agree with the theme of posts that acknowledge we had Kyrie and Morris out last night so yes, the bench was thin (as was the starting line up). Due largely to the fact that we lost Hayward for the whole season, we are missing some scoring punch and it is manifesting itself when the bench is on the floor (if Hayward was playing, we might see Tatum out there with the bench providing scoring for example). Obviously you expect that Kyrie will be back and I think if Morris can get himself right we will be fine. A veteran scorer of some form would definitely help the bench or if you get a starting level SF/SG, then maybe Tatum or Brown get some minutes with the bench.
We have been overachieving. We are regressing to the norm some here. We are still a good team, we are just not best record in the league good.
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I'm more than ready to move on from Rozier because he's way too inconsistent and he doesn't have that knack to make big plays in close games that Smart does. The question becomes, who could we trade him for that would consistently contribute?
Not sure whether all of those guys would contribute consistently from day 1, but here are some trade ideas :
- Rozier + Yabu for Jonathon Simmons
- Rozier + Yabu + Nader for JaMychal Green (in case the Grizzlies decide to blow it up - cannot be traded until January 14)
- Rozier + minor asset(if needed) for Willy Hernangomez
- Rozier + Yabu for Portis + Justin Holiday
- Rozier + Yabu for Jeremy Lamb
- Rozier + Yabu + Nader for Bogdan Bogdanovic
- Roy's idea : Rozier for Barea
Personally speaking, I'm ready to move on from Morris as well. Having said that, both Rozier and Morris are on a bargain contract till 2019, so I wouldn't mind if they stayed either.
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I'm more than ready to move on from Rozier because he's way too inconsistent and he doesn't have that knack to make big plays in close games that Smart does. The question becomes, who could we trade him for that would consistently contribute?
Not sure whether all of those guys would contribute consistently from day 1, but here are some trade ideas :
- Rozier + Yabu for Jonathon Simmons
- Rozier + Yabu + Nader for JaMychal Green (in case the Grizzlies decide to blow it up - cannot be traded until January 14)
- Rozier + minor asset(if needed) for Willy Hernangomez
- Rozier + Yabu for Portis + Justin Holiday
- Rozier + Yabu for Jeremy Lamb
- Rozier + Yabu + Nader for Bogdan Bogdanovic
- Roy's idea : Rozier for Barea
Personally speaking, I'm ready to move on from Morris as well. Having said that, both Rozier and Morris are on a bargain contract till 2019, so I wouldn't mind if they stayed either.
I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
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I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
Simmons would provide cover for both the SG and the SF positions.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
What you are describing is an All-Star caliber player. If you are aware of a player who can do all 3 of those things and at the same time he is potentially available for a package centered around Rozier, please let me know. :P
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The problem with our bench is that (with Morris injured) outside of Rozier, we really have nobody that can go off and that is scary. Last year you knew that somebody like KO or Gerald Green could have a big night if things weren't going well with the starting unit, but our deep bench is so young and/or crappy that it is pretty useless.
I agree with others who are ready to cut ties with Nader and Larkin and bring back locker room sweetheart, Gerald Green, as well as a PG who can light it up on occasion (Ellis, Crawford, Barbosa, etc). Save the DPE for a big buy-out.
It's great to have consistency from your bench guys and we do to an extent - especially defensively, but the back end of that bench needs to have a little more veteran savvy if we are truly going to be contending.
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The bench is really young and going to have its issues. I believe we are currently witnessing DA's feeling out period. ( to paraphrase) He has commented before that he likes it when the young players are forced into a real role and he can see what kind of players they are. I believe I heard him say that on a podcast and he was referring to the assumption early in the big 3 days that Rondo would be replaced with a vet.
I suspect Morris's health will play a large role in what DA does leading up to the all-star break.
With the entire roster healthy (minus Hayward) BS has typically run a ten man rotation. If Morris is out the teams desperately needs to add offense to the bench. I could see the Cs signing Gerald Green back at the vet min as the 15th man. BS can then split Morris's minutes between Green and Semi. Then DA can wait till vets are bought out to make a move with the DPE. At that time he can either cut Green or looking for a Nader trade/release.
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I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
Simmons would provide cover for both the SG and the SF positions.
I see Simmons as more of a forward than a guard.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
What you are describing is an All-Star caliber player. If you are aware of a player who can do all 3 of those things and at the same time he is potentially available for a package centered around Rozier, please let me know. :P
not really. Evan Turner was fairly solid all-around and not an all-star with us by any means.
Amir Johnson too for that matter. could provide some offense, some D and was fairly consistent. the problem with Amir is we needed him to start but would have been a solid guy off the bench when we had him.
those are just a couple of examples.
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A guard who can light it up.
Lou Williams would be my fave.
I second that. The Clips are going nowhere so might as well tank and Lou Williams is on the last year of his deal. They could either buy him out or we could trade for him - Nader for Williams ;)? LOL.
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We need a scorer to go with Rozier off the bench. Smart provides stuff but sometimes we need scoring. We also need another big off the bench. Bogut and Lou Will would be good. It's still too early but I think Ainge will make moves. I'm ready to jettison Yabu, he adds nothing.
I think last night was an evaluation game to see where these guys are...and it was ugly.
I tell you what I'm sick of. I'm sick of not running offense through Tatum. Last night Tatum should've put up 20+ shots with 2 starters down. I don't want to see more shots go to Rozier, Smart or Brown. Tatum is better in isolation and getting to FT line.
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Two Magic players as reclamation projects ...
Hezonja is a good athlete with a scoring mentality. I'm not convinced he is good, but he wouldn't be the first Magic player that has not been developed until he got to another team.
Payton gets to his places on the court. I don't think he is going to make that much money next off-season. he is a good backup. Would you trade Smart for Payton straight up? Right now? Payton is a much better offensive player who can get into the paint -- something the second unit desperately needs. I like how crafty he is. The Magic were rumored to like Smart leading up the draft. They need a junkyard leader.
Just a thought. Both are highly unlikely. I do like Payton though.
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I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
Simmons would provide cover for both the SG and the SF positions.
I see Simmons as more of a forward than a guard.
CBS is on the record as saying that he doesn't have the five positions anymore.
"I don’t have the five positions anymore. It may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big.''
If Brown can play the 2, so does Simmons.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
What you are describing is an All-Star caliber player. If you are aware of a player who can do all 3 of those things and at the same time he is potentially available for a package centered around Rozier, please let me know. :P
not really. Evan Turner was fairly solid all-around and not an all-star with us by any means.
Amir Johnson too for that matter. could provide some offense, some D and was fairly consistent. the problem with Amir is we needed him to start but would have been a solid guy off the bench when we had him.
those are just a couple of examples.
Consistency on offense is a hard thing to find. No way was Amir a consistent contributor on offense. I would argue, he was barely a contributor. I see your point about Turner though.
Smart-Semi-Morris-Theis-Baynes are way above average on D (to say the least). We also have a go-to guy for the second unit in Morris. Next year Hayward comes back, so it's likely that at least one of Kyrie-Hayward-Horford-Tatum-Brown will always be on the floor to lead the offense (alongside Morris). If we were to trade Rozier, I don't necessarily see why we need to replace him with an all around player.
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Two Magic players as reclamation projects ...
Hezonja is a good athlete with a scoring mentality. I'm not convinced he is good, but he wouldn't be the first Magic player that has not been developed until he got to another team.
Payton gets to his places on the court. I don't think he is going to make that much money next off-season. he is a good backup. Would you trade Smart for Payton straight up? Right now? Payton is a much better offensive player who can get into the paint -- something the second unit desperately needs. I like how crafty he is. The Magic were rumored to like Smart leading up the draft. They need a junkyard leader.
Just a thought. Both are highly unlikely. I do like Payton though.
If you thought people didn't like Smart's shot selection, just wait until you see Payton's...
Hezonja would be a perfect reclamation project here. He could certainly do some wonders in Steven's offense.
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I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
Simmons would provide cover for both the SG and the SF positions.
I see Simmons as more of a forward than a guard.
CBS is on the record as saying that he doesn't have the five positions anymore.
"I don’t have the five positions anymore. It may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big.''
If Brown can play the 2, so does Simmons.
I can understand your viewpoint. I'd certainly love to have him on the roster. when I've seen him play, he just seems to have more "forward" skills than "guard" skills if that makes sense. for some reason I thought he was like 6'9" but having checked he's only 6'6" so your comparison to Brown as a guard makes some sense.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
What you are describing is an All-Star caliber player. If you are aware of a player who can do all 3 of those things and at the same time he is potentially available for a package centered around Rozier, please let me know. :P
not really. Evan Turner was fairly solid all-around and not an all-star with us by any means.
Amir Johnson too for that matter. could provide some offense, some D and was fairly consistent. the problem with Amir is we needed him to start but would have been a solid guy off the bench when we had him.
those are just a couple of examples.
Consistency on offense is a hard thing to find. No way was Amir a consistent contributor on offense. I would argue, he was barely a contributor. I see your point about Turner though.
Smart-Semi-Morris-Theis-Baynes are way above average on D (to say the least). We also have a go-to guy for the second unit in Morris. Next year Hayward comes back, so it's likely that at least one of Kyrie-Hayward-Horford-Tatum-Brown will always be on the floor to lead the offense (alongside Morris). If we were to trade Rozier, I don't necessarily see why we need to replace him with an all around player.
I'm approaching a Rozier trade from the standpoint of improving the guard rotation so basically getting someone to take Rozier's spot that's better than him. that would likely require adding something to the deal from our side. getting a better all-around player would make sense in that Rozier is too inconsistent on offense and defense. the other option is if getting someone just as inconsistent, get someone whose peaks on offense and defense are better than Rozier's (and hopefully with less low spots in between the peaks).
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Two Magic players as reclamation projects ...
Hezonja is a good athlete with a scoring mentality. I'm not convinced he is good, but he wouldn't be the first Magic player that has not been developed until he got to another team.
Payton gets to his places on the court. I don't think he is going to make that much money next off-season. he is a good backup. Would you trade Smart for Payton straight up? Right now? Payton is a much better offensive player who can get into the paint -- something the second unit desperately needs. I like how crafty he is. The Magic were rumored to like Smart leading up the draft. They need a junkyard leader.
Just a thought. Both are highly unlikely. I do like Payton though.
If you thought people didn't like Smart's shot selection, just wait until you see Payton's...
Hezonja would be a perfect reclamation project here. He could certainly do some wonders in Steven's offense.
Yeah but he is shooting like 47% from the field over the past two years. So he has to have a better shot selection, right?
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The backups aren’t too much of a problem. It’s when you have to play the backups’ backups that you see the real drop off. Guys like Nader and Yabusele (and to an extent, Semi) are pretty terrible. Nader, in particular, just rubs me the wrong way. Whenever he’s on the floor, I feel like we’re going to lose the lead or dig a bigger hole. Dude just seems to always be out of place, defensively.
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The backups aren’t too much of a problem. It’s when you have to play the backups’ backups that you see the real drop off. Guys like Nader and Yabusele (and to an extent, Semi) are pretty terrible. Nader, in particular, just rubs me the wrong way. Whenever he’s on the floor, I feel like we’re going to lose the lead or dig a bigger hole. Dude just seems to always be out of place, defensively.
He was out of place a lot last night. Because the crowd was so quiet, you could hear both CBS and his teammates consistently directing him to the correct location on the court, both on offense and defense.
I hadn't noticed it before last night, but it was obvious his didn't know what was going, which further makes me wonder why CBS seems to like him. I trust CBS. He has his reasons, but based on the information I know, it doesn't make sense.
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I like Simmons and Green but don't see them being moved. would also mean the next guard off the bench is Nader/Larkin and that's a step in the wrong direction.
Simmons would provide cover for both the SG and the SF positions.
I see Simmons as more of a forward than a guard.
CBS is on the record as saying that he doesn't have the five positions anymore.
"I don’t have the five positions anymore. It may be as simple as three positions now, where you’re either a ball-handler, a wing or a big.''
If Brown can play the 2, so does Simmons.
I can understand your viewpoint. I'd certainly love to have him on the roster. when I've seen him play, he just seems to have more "forward" skills than "guard" skills if that makes sense. for some reason I thought he was like 6'9" but having checked he's only 6'6" so your comparison to Brown as a guard makes some sense.
the rest are just the same issue -- no offense or no defense or no consistency.
What you are describing is an All-Star caliber player. If you are aware of a player who can do all 3 of those things and at the same time he is potentially available for a package centered around Rozier, please let me know. :P
not really. Evan Turner was fairly solid all-around and not an all-star with us by any means.
Amir Johnson too for that matter. could provide some offense, some D and was fairly consistent. the problem with Amir is we needed him to start but would have been a solid guy off the bench when we had him.
those are just a couple of examples.
Consistency on offense is a hard thing to find. No way was Amir a consistent contributor on offense. I would argue, he was barely a contributor. I see your point about Turner though.
Smart-Semi-Morris-Theis-Baynes are way above average on D (to say the least). We also have a go-to guy for the second unit in Morris. Next year Hayward comes back, so it's likely that at least one of Kyrie-Hayward-Horford-Tatum-Brown will always be on the floor to lead the offense (alongside Morris). If we were to trade Rozier, I don't necessarily see why we need to replace him with an all around player.
I'm approaching a Rozier trade from the standpoint of improving the guard rotation so basically getting someone to take Rozier's spot that's better than him. that would likely require adding something to the deal from our side. getting a better all-around player would make sense in that Rozier is too inconsistent on offense and defense. the other option is if getting someone just as inconsistent, get someone whose peaks on offense and defense are better than Rozier's (and hopefully with less low spots in between the peaks).
Jonathan Simmons is literally LAST (86th out of 86) in defensive RPM this year for SF's!!
No thanks.
Smitty77
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Two Magic players as reclamation projects ...
Hezonja is a good athlete with a scoring mentality. I'm not convinced he is good, but he wouldn't be the first Magic player that has not been developed until he got to another team.
Payton gets to his places on the court. I don't think he is going to make that much money next off-season. he is a good backup. Would you trade Smart for Payton straight up? Right now? Payton is a much better offensive player who can get into the paint -- something the second unit desperately needs. I like how crafty he is. The Magic were rumored to like Smart leading up the draft. They need a junkyard leader.
Just a thought. Both are highly unlikely. I do like Payton though.
If you thought people didn't like Smart's shot selection, just wait until you see Payton's...
Hezonja would be a perfect reclamation project here. He could certainly do some wonders in Steven's offense.
I totally agree in taking a flyer on Hezonja!!! You cannot teach length for SG's and he is 6' 8"!!! And he is only 22.
Smitty77
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rushing to improve the bench this season is only a necessity if we have a legit shot at the title. Without a healthy Hayward, I don't see it. ECF and possibly the finals but beating GSW without Hayward in a 7-game series is just improbable.
Solution: wait til next year for natural improvements
- starters are Kyrie, Hayward, Horford and probably Brown. 5th starter is likely to be Tatum.
- Barring trades, bench becomes Smart (likely resigned to reasonable deal since his offense is still hit or miss), Rozier, Morris (hopefully finally healthy), Theis, Semi. That's not too bad provided there's a mix of 2 starters out there at a time.
Deep bench: C's 1st rounder, Yabu, maybe Lakers' first rounder.
Baynes has likely played himself into a deal larger than the MLE which would be all we could offer.
Bird and Allen may have the 2-way deals again.
Larkin and Nader are very likely gone.
C's have the MLE (if not Baynes) to pick up a decent bench guy or 2.
I'm more than ready to move on from Rozier because he's way too inconsistent and he doesn't have that knack to make big plays in close games that Smart does. The question becomes, who could we trade him for that would consistently contribute?
I agree with your assessment that no drastic moves should be made till next season.
Next season the Cs will likely start a lineup that mimics the Warriors "death" lineup. In its shooting and spacing prowess. With an eye towards next year assuming Smart can be retained and Baynes can not then the Cs may need to look into moving Morris and Rozier to restructure the bench in preparation for a legit title push.
I agree that as much as I like Rozier he is somewhat redundant to Smart and a more pure shooter is a better fit off the bench. Not that either are likely options but I would rather see a Seth Curry or Tyler Johnson type shooter in this role. For that reason a small part of me would be interested to see a vet min Jimmer Fredette get a shot on the Cs. This also makes a case for Bellineli with the DPE.
If Baynes is lost to a higher bidder the Cs absolutely must bring in another true big man. Starting Al at C is fine as long as his back up can provide the minutes and skill set that Baynes currently is. Theis is a nice option at the 5/4 but against the larger centers he is to over matched.
Filling this shooter and big man role may ultimately mean having to move Morris and Rozier.
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Here's a list. There are a number of players on there I would rather have than some of our guys:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents)
That's an ugly list but I think Diaw would be a good 2nd unit veteran big.
Yeah, there's not a lot there.
I see Terrence Jones is still out there, though. I always thought he was interesting. Not sure why he never reached his potential. Old friend Brandon Bass is out there, too. As is Ben Bentil. That guy was kind of a monster in college, why couldn't he figure it out in the NBA? He wasn't even good in the D-League. Ty Lawson had some nice years in the NBA.
But those are all long shots to even be contributors.
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LOL @ "cut Nader" being the bench solution. He never plays.
That's shortsighted, though. Cutting Nader has it's advantages, in that it creates another roster spot. This would then give us 2 available roster spots and the use of the DPE. Nader is simply unplayable and having him on the roster does nothing for our team.
I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie. Cutting a rookie who never plays to "revamp the bench" like the title of this thread desires does nothing besides open a seat at the end of the bench.
Cutting Nader does not address the fact that Rozier and Ojeleye have played 280 minutes together and are almost a -10pt net rating, the only negative number in the top 20 2-man groups on basketball-reference.
Cutting Nader does not address the fact that the offense is mediocre, largely because of the bench players who are playing 15min+ per game.
And most importantly never-playing-Nader has nothing to do with the team shooting 10 for 40 (!!!!!) from 3.
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba)
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba)
As a function of defensive prowess. A little coherence attacking would be great also.
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Two Magic players as reclamation projects ...
Hezonja is a good athlete with a scoring mentality. I'm not convinced he is good, but he wouldn't be the first Magic player that has not been developed until he got to another team.
Payton gets to his places on the court. I don't think he is going to make that much money next off-season. he is a good backup. Would you trade Smart for Payton straight up? Right now? Payton is a much better offensive player who can get into the paint -- something the second unit desperately needs. I like how crafty he is. The Magic were rumored to like Smart leading up the draft. They need a junkyard leader.
Just a thought. Both are highly unlikely. I do like Payton though.
Smart for Payton makes this team a lot worse today.
Hurts the bench and defense and takes away the heart and soul of the team. Probably has a negligible effect on the offense.
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
This article is based only on defense and is clearly just an opinion. Our offense is not so hot off the bench.
Our bench is ranked 17th overall.
We are much lower in a lot of the offensive areas with our bench stats.
3oth in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1
You can also see opponents stats vs. our bench
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/18/7/diffeff/1-1
Pretty clear we have some offensive woes that your little article neglects. The great thing about the internet is you can look up a stat to defend an argument but somewhere out there is some more information that someone can look up and present against. I recommend your home work a little more.
I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie.
Wasn't he a rookie last year.
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58
The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all. I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there. But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence. NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses. That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles. It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
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Wasn't he a rookie last year.
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58
The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all. I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there. But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence. NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses. That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles. It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
He was technically a rookie but he never played and was strictly a D-League player.
But I agree, I think he's garbage
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LOL @ "cut Nader" being the bench solution. He never plays.
The first solution was to move Morris to the bench and start Baynes. That worked. But now he is hurt and could be out a while so they do need to rethink things.
I would ask brad simply to limit the Rozier + Smart lineups. Try to make sure that those two always have two of the Kyrie+Al+Tatum+Brown group with them. Stagger the minutes better. Use Theis more to relieve Al early.
I've been asking to just eliminate Rozier from the rotation since last year. He and Smart can't play together, and Smart should always have the ball in his hands with the 2nd unit anyway.
Kyrie 32 / Smart 16
Brown 32 / Smart 16
Tatum 32 / Semi 16
Horford 10 / Morris 26 / Theis 12
Baynes 26 / Horford 22
Keep Smart with Kyrie, Brown, and Tatum. Keep him away from Rozier.
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I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba)
I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
Already brought up and shown to be about defense and not overall play. I think everyone acknowledges we have a great defensive bench but the problem is they are really poor at putting the ball through the hoop.
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba)
I know that BR is not very popular here :D but they rank the celtic bench as 6th best
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
Already brought up and shown to be about defense and not overall play. I think everyone acknowledges we have a great defensive bench but the problem is they are really poor at putting the ball through the hoop.
No it's not. It's based on net rating.
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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.
For rebounding, what about Nader and a 2nd for Montrezl Harrell? He's been playing well and the CLips are 10-15.
Move Smart to the 1st unit.
Kyrie Rozier
Smart Evans
Brown Morris
Tatum Harrell
Horford Theis/Baynes
I know we don't really want to give up draft picks for a couple of rentals but the team is doing well enough, they deserve a shot at going deep in the playoffs.
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I think the elephant in the room is capitalizing on the DPE. To me, the ideal trade partner would be Dallas for BOTH of Dirk and Nerlens Noel. As much as Cuban might resist at first, his business mind will supercede, and realize that with these players, Dallas is still a bottom feeder.
The Celtics can offer something like one of Marcus Morris/Rozier/Smart, plus a combination of Boston 1st round picks (end of the draft) and 2nd rounders
Ideally the player we see go is Morris, who is hurt. It allows Dallas to truly tank, and get assets for a guy like Dirk, who likely wants to play for a title, Noel who would be very useful as a PF/C in any of Brads lineups. Beefs up our frontcourt and our overall bench depth, but also gives Brad a varoety of starting front court options. Dirk comes off the bench in the regular season and then starts come playoff time for one final sprint for a title.
Dirk can then do the Paul Pierce thing, and sign a one day deal with the Mavs to retire in Dallas.
If Noel pans out, we can work a long-term deal. Either way, his value increases substantially getting meaningful minutes for a playoff team.
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Cuban isn't going to want to pay Smart, and a big that can't stretch the floor is good for 15 mpg in Brad's system. I've always liked the thought of Noel with our rebounding woes and lack of rim protection. But I've watched enough Shark Tank this week to know that that ain't gonna happen, sdcelts. TP for the idea, though.
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Dirk is a Dallas legend. Cuban isn't trading him for a late 1st and a Boston spare part. He wants to see Dirk play out his career in Dallas.
I'd much rather go after "One Punch-man" Portis from Chicago who is 'listening' to offers.
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Dirk is a Dallas legend. Cuban isn't trading him for a late 1st and a Boston spare part. He wants to see Dirk play out his career in Dallas.
I'd much rather go after "One Punch-man" Portis from Chicago who is 'listening' to offers.
Same, I've always liked Portis. Everyone continues to think he'll regress to the mean, but he continues to improve. He was also just quoted as saying he prefers the 6th man role.
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No it's not. It's based on net rating.
Yet Offensively, as I posted above our bench is :
30th in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1
Even using the pages you post one can see that we do not have the best bench offensive team,
28th in PACE
30th in TS%
17th in Offrtg.
25th in EFG
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StarterBench=Bench&DateTo=12%2F10%2F2017
Hard to say that we don't have offensive issues off our bench. Not to mention the eye test that most here can discern that at times our bench struggles to score. There is a reason that CBS has started to leave a starter in with the bench recently and its not because they are offensively talented. It is to help that talent.
We do have some bench guys who play hard and defend well. They rebound well. But to pretend that they are offensive studs is very amusing.
To me, the ideal trade partner would be Dallas for BOTH of Dirk and Nerlens Noel
Say hello to the Easter Bunny while you're in dream land. Dirk is going to retire there most likely. They have no reason to trade with us especially given how they got burnt in the Rondo deal.
I think Mirotic and Portis are more attainable. I tought we should have got Okafor, he was cheap and can score. His D is bad but CBS has a way to make guys play D who normally do not.
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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.
This feels like the best option that's realistically gettable. Memphis being what it is, both as a market and as a current team, they might let him go for little more than taking on his salary.
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No it's not. It's based on net rating.
Yet Offensively, as I posted above our bench is :
30th in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1
Even using the pages you post one can see that we do not have the best bench offensive team,
28th in PACE
30th in TS%
17th in Offrtg.
25th in EFG
http://stats.nba.com/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StarterBench=Bench&DateTo=12%2F10%2F2017
Hard to say that we don't have offensive issues off our bench. Not to mention the eye test that most here can discern that at times our bench struggles to score. There is a reason that CBS has started to leave a starter in with the bench recently and its not because they are offensively talented. It is to help that talent.
We do have some bench guys who play hard and defend well. They rebound well. But to pretend that they are offensive studs is very amusing.
The point is that by Net rating (Offensive-Defensive) we're sixth overall. That's mainly because we're first defensively, and average (17th as you point out) offensively. So really we have an above average bench. Obviously if we can improve offensively without hurting the defense, we'd be better, and I'm all for improving. But just improving the offense at the expense of the defense is a waste of assets.
If you look closer at that list you'll see we're well behind Golden State and Houston in Net Rating, so if we really want to contend I'd agree we need to improve the bench. Tyreke Evans would be my target.
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I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie.
Wasn't he a rookie last year.
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58
The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all. I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there. But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence. NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses. That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles. It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
Nader was not on the 15 man roster last year, he signed a D-league deal and played for like $40K. He is a rookie, just like Ben Simmons is.
There are probably 3 or 4 guys on the bench who are rookies who take up a spot that would better be served by vets. But those vets are arguably more worthless as they will play just as big a role ( basically none) but have negative upside, whereas at least with guys like Nader you can see if they get better over time.
Again, not defending him, but he should get more than a couple game appearances before he no longer plays.
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Instead of Will Barton, why not use the DPE on Tyreke Evans? The Grizzlies would probably want a draft pick for him, but they aren't going anywhere this year. A little different situation from Barton.
For rebounding, what about Nader and a 2nd for Montrezl Harrell? He's been playing well and the CLips are 10-15.
Move Smart to the 1st unit.
Kyrie Rozier
Smart Evans
Brown Morris
Tatum Harrell
Horford Theis/Baynes
I know we don't really want to give up draft picks for a couple of rentals but the team is doing well enough, they deserve a shot at going deep in the playoffs.
Evans is basically averaging 18/5/4, do you think they'd give him up for little? I love Tyreke, so I'd be ecstatic, but it just doesn't seem likely.
Harrell is another guy I'm a big fan of
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Dirk is a Dallas legend. Cuban isn't trading him for a late 1st and a Boston spare part. He wants to see Dirk play out his career in Dallas.
I'd much rather go after "One Punch-man" Portis from Chicago who is 'listening' to offers.
Same, I've always liked Portis. Everyone continues to think he'll regress to the mean, but he continues to improve. He was also just quoted as saying he prefers the 6th man role.
While we're on the topic, what about Jonny One Punch's receiver Mirotic?
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I see things differently. C's aren't winning a title this year. They also aren't likely to be resigning most their FA/RFAs to be. So go hard on a starter upgrade and make due with an even worse bench for the sake of the future.
Smart, Baynes, Morris, Yab and Nader for Cousins.
Resign Cousins and go into next season as the heavy favorites to win the EC.
Irving, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Cousins.
Rozier, Tatum, Semi, Theis.
You also might have two first to select guys to help the bench. And you can sign title chasers.
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
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LeBron would be a perfect 6th man....
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LeBron would be a perfect 6th man....
Swiss Army Knife off the bench!
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
This article is based only on defense and is clearly just an opinion. Our offense is not so hot off the bench.
Our bench is ranked 17th overall.
We are much lower in a lot of the offensive areas with our bench stats.
3oth in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1
You can also see opponents stats vs. our bench
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/18/7/diffeff/1-1
Pretty clear we have some offensive woes that your little article neglects. The great thing about the internet is you can look up a stat to defend an argument but somewhere out there is some more information that someone can look up and present against. I recommend your home work a little more.
I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie.
Wasn't he a rookie last year.
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58
The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all. I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there. But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence. NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses. That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles. It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
I agree. I dislike Nader more then i've disliked any Celtics player in a long time. I actually dislike him more than Fab Melo - at least he could block shots and was big.
For somebody who isn't very skilled, Nader is a major ball hog who plays the game with a the greatest degree of selfishness I've seen from a Celtics player in a very long time. He practically refuses to pass to ball or play defense.
I would absolutely love to see him gone. The only thing I'd love more then to see him gone, is to seem him go and somehow find his way on the Cavs.
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
Not necessarily. Divac said he had a better offer but ownership wanted Buddy deal
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NBA Metrics have us as having the 6th best bench in the league... guess we can stop knee-jerking to a single loss
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748208-nba-metrics-101-ranking-top-10-benches-in-the-nba
This article is based only on defense and is clearly just an opinion. Our offense is not so hot off the bench.
Our bench is ranked 17th overall.
We are much lower in a lot of the offensive areas with our bench stats.
3oth in FG percentage
29th in 3P percentage
23rd in points
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/18/7/fga/1-1
You can also see opponents stats vs. our bench
http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/opponentstats/18/7/diffeff/1-1
Pretty clear we have some offensive woes that your little article neglects. The great thing about the internet is you can look up a stat to defend an argument but somewhere out there is some more information that someone can look up and present against. I recommend your home work a little more.
I am not here to defend Nader, but he is a rookie.
Wasn't he a rookie last year.
2016, Boston Celtics
Round: 2 / Pick: 58
The guy is dead weight and can't defend at all. I think he has guts and can make a shot here and there. But he has a roster slot that would be better served with a veteran presence. NBA defense is not a skillset he possesses. That being said, he is not the main reason our bench struggles. It is we lack skilled offensive bench players but we are full of hustler types that are scrappy and good on defense.
I agree. I dislike Nader more then i've disliked any Celtics player in a long time. I actually dislike him more than Fab Melo - at least he could block shots and was big.
For somebody who isn't very skilled, Nader is a major ball hog who plays the game with a the greatest degree of selfishness I've seen from a Celtics player in a very long time. He practically refuses to pass to ball or play defense.
I would absolutely love to see him gone. The only thing I'd love more then to see him gone, is to seem him go and somehow find his way on the Cavs.
TP ;D Glad to see someone who dislike's Nader as much as me.
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
Not necessarily. Divac said he had a better offer but ownership wanted Buddy deal
link? Its hard for me to be believe that a gm would publically say they were offered a better player then buddy but took buddy instead.
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The point is that by Net rating (Offensive-Defensive) we're sixth overall. That's mainly because we're first defensively, and average (17th as you point out) offensively. So really we have an above average bench.
Our bench is very poor in shooting. Net Rating is kind of a composite score, looking at the individual stats one can see that we have trouble with making shots on the bench. We are 30th in TS% for our bench. One can see the need by knowing that stats, whereas your total composite score obfuscates the isssue and sugarcoats it.
Did you not see Tatum playing a lot more with them last night to help out with the scoring.
Nader was not on the 15 man roster last year, he signed a D-league deal and played for like $40K. He is a rookie, just like Ben Simmons is.
Which means he is not a rookie. They both sat had an extra year outside college. I know the league kind of does this for injured guys but D/G leaguers?
It does not change the fact, that he can't play D. He does not even give an effort.
I agree. I dislike Nader more then i've disliked any Celtics player in a long time. I actually dislike him more than Fab Melo - at least he could block shots and was big.
For somebody who isn't very skilled, Nader is a major ball hog who plays the game with a the greatest degree of selfishness I've seen from a Celtics player in a very long time. He practically refuses to pass to ball or play defense.
I would absolutely love to see him gone. The only thing I'd love more then to see him gone, is to seem him go and somehow find his way on the Cavs.
I am with you Crimson, TP.
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A guard who can light it up.
Lou Williams would be my fave. Bellineli would be a good option too, more of a shooter than scorer though.
I miss Evan Turner
I agree with all this also I believe we can get Lou with our money we get from the injury to Hayward along with a pick.
But I'd take Turner back too, we need play making and shot making.
Third get rid of Smart this kid flat out sucks!!!
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
Not necessarily. Divac said he had a better offer but ownership wanted Buddy deal
link? Its hard for me to be believe that a gm would publically say they were offered a better player then buddy but took buddy instead.
I remember Vlade saying something like this too, I interpreted it to mean that NO had previously offered a better deal then the one he took. Maybe C84 remembers it better then I do.
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Yabu and Nader + 2nd if needed for Dedmon
Sign a Barnes type to a vet min
Use DPE during buy out period
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
Not necessarily. Divac said he had a better offer but ownership wanted Buddy deal
link? Its hard for me to be believe that a gm would publically say they were offered a better player then buddy but took buddy instead.
I remember Vlade saying something like this too, I interpreted it to mean that NO had previously offered a better deal then the one he took. Maybe C84 remembers it better then I do.
What I've seen in the media (it's obv speculation but not unsubstantiated) is that Divac hurried up to close the deal bcs he was afraid Ranadive would change his mind. The key factor was reportedly that their owner was really into Hield.
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Yabu and Nader + 2nd if needed for Dedmon
Sign a Barnes type to a vet min
Use DPE during buy out period
;D ;D ;D
This idea is just comical.
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
You don't have to start Semi and have Tatum come off the bench. Stevens can simply change his rotations to leave Tatum and someone like Horford in with 3 bench players and run the offense through them rather than have 5 bench players in and run the offense through Smart and Rozier.
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Going through this thread, one would think that Nader was playing significant minutes and stinking up the joint. Kind of sad really. Nader is not the problem. He's a developmental player who barely gets any playing time.
To me, the C's bench issues are 2 fold: injury to Morris and poor guard play.
The bench unit seemed to play better when Morris was on that unit and the go to scorer. It seemed to put everything else into place as far as roles on that unit. With the injury, bench has no go to guy so CBS has been juggling lineups to find the right combo.
The guards have also been huge issue. The Smart/Rozier combo is inconsistent and as we all know, offensively challenged. At some point, something has to give with those two. They can survive with one of them but not both.
Ultimately, I think the DPE goes towards a player that can help score/facilitate offense. A true 6th man type and i think someone like Tyreke Evans would be a great fit. Can handle the ball, can score, has good size and I do not think will cost a while lot to get considering his contract status and Memphis' position in the standings.
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Yabu and Nader + 2nd if needed for Dedmon
Sign a Barnes type to a vet min
Use DPE during buy out period
;D ;D ;D
This idea is just comical.
I would be interested to know why you say that
Do we need another big...yup
Do we need another vet off the bench...yup
So what is so comical?
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
I was thinking along the same lines except start Smart, move Brown to SF. Let Larkin and Rozier run the second unit, and then Tatum can get more touches with the second unit.
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
You don't have to start Semi and have Tatum come off the bench. Stevens can simply change his rotations to leave Tatum and someone like Horford in with 3 bench players and run the offense through them rather than have 5 bench players in and run the offense through Smart and Rozier.
Good points, that would also work.
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I would like them to try to grab Marco Belinelli from Atlanta if he gets bought out. I would really like his shooting and ability to score in some other ways coming off the bench. That solid veteran scoring would really help.
Open to something better, but that is one that jumps out that I think is pretty possible with the DPE.
Tatum hasn't shown enough off the dribble and remotely enough passing to run any sort of offense consistnetly, even for a bench unit. He did show more off the dribble last night than he has this season so that was encouraging. Tatum could make plays right now and every game if he wanted to but he isn't there yet. This narrative like he isn't getting any chance to handle the ball is silly. I don't mean to sound down on him remotely (I love him) but he is doing so well and excelling playing efficiently and often taking open shots other players get him. He has been great for his rookie year.
Now maybe he will progress quickly or as we go along slowly and take that over even this season. I won't rule it out because he has been so impressive. However, it hasn't been there yet. But so far his efficiency is great at basically everything scoring wise so I am very happy.
Also: Morris is tailor made for this role. I think he is upset about it perhaps but I think it is clearly the best move and I hope he settles into it and gets healthy.
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To me, its pretty obvious that Larkin should be given the backup point guard job. I think Ainge and Stevens still believes in Rozier and doesn't want to bury him, but the minutes need to come from somewhere and Larkin is getting it done fairly consistently. He's also proven he's a plus defender.
Smart and Rozier are both horrendous when they are relied on to break down the defense. Both guys can be quite valuable when they are the 4th or 5th option on the floor. Unfortunately, if Larkin is taking all of the backup primary ball handler minutes, one of them loses their spot in the rotation. That probably means Rozier loses out.
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Boris Diaw....I don't care if he is 35 and fat.
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
You don't have to start Semi and have Tatum come off the bench. Stevens can simply change his rotations to leave Tatum and someone like Horford in with 3 bench players and run the offense through them rather than have 5 bench players in and run the offense through Smart and Rozier.
I agree. Rotations could be tweaked to improve things.
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The Celtics passed on Cousins when he was available last year.
Not necessarily. Divac said he had a better offer but ownership wanted Buddy deal
link? Its hard for me to be believe that a gm would publically say they were offered a better player then buddy but took buddy instead.
I remember Vlade saying something like this too, I interpreted it to mean that NO had previously offered a better deal then the one he took. Maybe C84 remembers it better then I do.
What I've seen in the media (it's obv speculation but not unsubstantiated) is that Divac hurried up to close the deal bcs he was afraid Ranadive would change his mind. The key factor was reportedly that their owner was really into Hield.
Divac was asked about it and he said they had a better deal earlier. Don't need a link it was during post trade interview
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I'm sick of watching Tatum NOT get the touches he deserves. Offense should be run through him more than it is. He should be getting at least 15 shots a game...no less. He's leading the league in 3pt % and shooting 50\50\80.
My suggestion move Tatum to the bench and let him get off on the 2nd unit. This bench just has no offense. Start Semi and let Tatum wreck havoc off the bench and then let him finish the games with the starters.
You don't have to start Semi and have Tatum come off the bench. Stevens can simply change his rotations to leave Tatum and someone like Horford in with 3 bench players and run the offense through them rather than have 5 bench players in and run the offense through Smart and Rozier.
It has been rare that Brad has had five bench players in the game together.
(It looks like you're including Smart as a bench player in this scenario, despite the fact that he's currently fourth in minutes per game.)
None of Boston's top 20 lineups (by minutes played) has had all "bench" players - and that's true whether or not you call Smart or Morris bench players. The 20th, by the way, has played a total of 17.6 minutes this season.
The discussion in this thread suffers from being unclear about what players we're actually talking about.
Tatum is ready to play at this level; that's really remarkable - but he is not ready to have the offense run through him.
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Losing Morris has been underrated as an issue for this team...
Don't know how to fix it or how bad his problem is.
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Stagger Kyrie and Horford. Right now Smart is the safety valve in the second unit, taking all the late-shot clock shots. He probably shoots 10% in those situations, and Rozier isn't much better. I like the look of the second unit with Horford in--the Smart-Horford pick-and-roll/pop is so much better than the Smart-Baynes or Smart-Theiss pick and roll, and late-clock Horford post ups are so much more efficient than late-clock Smart floaters.
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I agree
Yabusele, Semi, Nadel so far don't look like NBA players.
Who knows what you will get out of Larkin, Rozier, Smart game in and out
Theis is strickly a garbage man
Would like the Celts to somehow acquire Barton or Tyreke Evans without giving up a 1st
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We just need to be patient. I’d hate to use the DPE now say on a guard only to see another one of our wings get hurt later on. Wait until trade/buyout deadline and we’ll have more options, and hopefully Morris back. I’m not overly concerned right now.
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The bench is pretty terrible, offensively. I wish we didn’t have to play Semi rotation minutes. He’s like Smart without the playmaking while only giving average defense. In other words, a net negative. But them’s the breaks. There’s no other wing player left, especially with both Morris and Hayward out.
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That's one of those games that the team just wants to lose.
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Semi isn't the problem. Larkin isn't the problem. Sometimes Smart is the problem. I've noticed that Smart will combine mistakes. He will take a bad shot, then turn around and make a stupid foul. He is a great defensive player but has drawn a rep for being a flopper and doesn't get the calls like he should.
I just question some of the rotations where we have little to no offense on the floor and Smart and Rozier are taking more shots than Tatum. I suggested moving Tatum to bench but that may be to drastic. Maybe sub him out first and then bring him back with the 2nd unit when the starters begin to come out.
We need to always have to scorers on the floor. The question is...is Rozier considered a scorer? We can't have Larkin\Rozier, Smart, Semi, Tatum and Theis on the floor and go to Smart and Rozier for scoring...not going to work.
Great win last night. I thought for sure we p---ed that one away.
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Greg Monroe buyout rumors are floating around yet again. Phoenix wants to keep Isaiah Canaan and Monroe is the logical candidate to be cut/traded/bought out. Will he be a good fit in Boston?
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Here's a list. There are a number of players on there I would rather have than some of our guys:
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents (https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/current_free_agents)
That's an ugly list but I think Diaw would be a good 2nd unit veteran big.
interesting thought