CelticsStrong
Around the League => Around the NBA => Topic started by: celticsclay on December 11, 2017, 01:55:58 PM
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Considering we had a lengthy thread on Lebron somehow going to Philly, figured a front page article from the ringer may warrant some actual discussion.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/11/16760590/lebron-james-houston-rockets-free-agency
Sam Amick also floated the idea in USA Today:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/sam-amick/2017/12/09/houston-rockets-lebron-james-free-agency/937335001/
I still think the Lakers are most likely because I think it is the best place for him to go to build an empire. From a basketball standpoint he could definitely set up the banana boat team there (Carmelo is playing himself towards the bi-annual exception right now).
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Wouldn't shock me to see Labron and Wade head to Houston together to team with Paul and Harden. Morey will have to pull off some magic to get a team to take Anderson's contract but like the article says a team like the Kings may be willing in the off-season.
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I just don't see how they financially do it (while keeping Paul, Capela, etc.), but yeah Houston would be an interesting team.
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Wouldn't shock me to see Labron and Wade head to Houston together to team with Paul and Harden. Morey will have to pull off some magic to get a team to take Anderson's contract but like the article says a team like the Kings may be willing in the off-season.
I think the assumption here is that once LeBron goes into full-on ring chaser mode, that he will take less money to join "his buddies."
Houston makes way more sense than LA/PHI
It would be amazing if CLE lost LeBrom, IT and traded the Brooklyn pick for DeAndre. That team would collapse in on itself like a dying star ;)
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Wouldn't shock me to see Labron and Wade head to Houston together to team with Paul and Harden. Morey will have to pull off some magic to get a team to take Anderson's contract but like the article says a team like the Kings may be willing in the off-season.
Yea.. if the players make it clear they want something to happen it will happen. If Lebron did go to Houston it would be very bad for the league I think. It would force the realignment of the conferences pretty much immediately...
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LeBron always wanted to play with his buddies, with Wade on a decline, if LeBron flees to Houston to play with CP3, Wade might go along with him
If LeBron does choose to go to Houston, I wonder what pieces they are going to shed in order just to sign him
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I just don't see how they financially do it (while keeping Paul, Capela, etc.), but yeah Houston would be an interesting team.
Pay-cuts?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/HOU.html
Sell picks to get out of Ryan's contract.
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Good. Get the eff out the East already.
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I could also see Bosh coming out of retirement to join that team. Still, Harden is the only guy in his prime in that group, Lebron is aging and Wade is already cooked. That would still be a formidable team, but not a super team, considering they would lose some of their current depth and youth to shed salaries
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I just don't see how they financially do it (while keeping Paul, Capela, etc.), but yeah Houston would be an interesting team.
Pay-cuts?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/HOU.html
Sell picks to get out of Ryan's contract.
Even if James and Paul took pay cuts and they would have to be massive (like splitting 40 million between them kind of massive), they aren't keeping Capela, Ariza, Black, and Mbah a Moute. They would obviously lose Anderson, so they would basically just be James, Paul, Harden, Gordon, Tucker, Onuaku, and Nene, plus whatever vets or rooks they could sign for the minimum. They would lose their depth, especially down low, eliminating much of the advantage they would have. It would definitely be an interesting team, but even dumping Anderson you would be asking both James and Paul to give up a ton of salary. And I'm really not as confident as the author that the fit makes all that much sense. All 3 of those guys are ball dominant offensive players and we only have 10 games of Paul and Harden together so it is really early to declare them an outright success (and adding James and what he brings isn't easy either).
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I hope it happens somehow. I want Lebron out of the East.
Would Harden defer to LBJ? Where does CP3 fit into a “take turns” offense? Would two key members of the NBAPA take huge pay cuts to team up?
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I hope it happens somehow. I want Lebron out of the East.
Would Harden defer to LBJ? Where does CP3 fit into a “take turns” offense? Would two key members of the NBAPA take huge pay cuts to team up?
that is why I just don't see it. I just can't see Paul or James being at the stage where they would give up massive sums of money
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I could also see Bosh coming out of retirement to join that team. Still, Harden is the only guy in his prime in that group, Lebron is aging and Wade is already cooked. That would still be a formidable team, but not a super team, considering they would lose some of their current depth and youth to shed salaries
Lebron is aging but he’s not only still in his prime, he’s still improving and is better than he’s ever been.
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I could also see Bosh coming out of retirement to join that team. Still, Harden is the only guy in his prime in that group, Lebron is aging and Wade is already cooked. That would still be a formidable team, but not a super team, considering they would lose some of their current depth and youth to shed salaries
Nah. Bosh have development some of displeasure on playing alongside Lebron.
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I hope it happens somehow. I want Lebron out of the East.
Would Harden defer to LBJ? Where does CP3 fit into a “take turns” offense? Would two key members of the NBAPA take huge pay cuts to team up?
Good call on the possible ramifications of the two most powerful members of the NBAPA setting an example of taking a huge salary cut to play together. Makes it look bad for the union's positions.
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Lebron out of the east would pretty much guarantee celtics being #1 seed and probably going to the finals every year.
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I hope it happens somehow. I want Lebron out of the East.
Would Harden defer to LBJ? Where does CP3 fit into a “take turns” offense? Would two key members of the NBAPA take huge pay cuts to team up?
I'd much rather beat him.
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And right on que a story leaks that LeBron will not accept a contract for anything less than the ful max
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And right on que a story leaks that LeBron will not accept a contract for anything less than the ful max
I still can't understand the Lakers narrative with Lebron. A best case scenario line up of Ball, Ingram, James, George and a MLE centre isn't winning anything now nor in the future. For me it's return to the Cavs or go to Houston.
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If LeBron wants to chase rings, he should go to the Warriors.
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If LeBron wants to chase rings, he should go to the Warriors.
He might eat into Swaggy P's minutes a bit
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If LeBron wants to chase rings, he should go to the Warriors.
He might eat into Swaggy P's minutes a bit
LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiP9rT1iozI
"Dear Lord - PLEASE let Swaggy P and LeBron end up on the SAME team somehow"...Amen.
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And right on que a story leaks that LeBron will not accept a contract for anything less than the ful max
How is that a "story" this has been true for years?
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And right on que a story leaks that LeBron will not accept a contract for anything less than the ful max
How is that a "story" this has been true for years?
if it was true for years, then why would anyone print a story about James going to Houston to play with Paul and Harden? They both can't be true.
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I don't think it is a question about needing the money as much as holding the team to a high standard. Lebron took less than the max to go to Miami and then watched the owner pinch pennies and let valuable members go which in Lebron's mind cost them that 3rd title in his last year there. He doesn't want to make that mistake again, which is also why he won't sign long term contracts. He is keeping the pressure on by taking max contracts at short years.
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I thought about this. What's that salary $ to Lebron? His net worth is around 400M... But maybe he hopes to purchase a team down the line. He's still pretty far from Ownership money.
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And right on que a story leaks that LeBron will not accept a contract for anything less than the ful max
How is that a "story" this has been true for years?
if it was true for years, then why would anyone print a story about James going to Houston to play with Paul and Harden? They both can't be true.
Could be Paul taking the pay cut. You honestly act really weird about salary cap stuff. A few weeks ago you asked me to come up with a way the Bucks could clean their cap (and they have some bad contracts). I came up with a completely plausible series of moves they could do. I could do the same for Houston this year or summer. If Lebron said he wanted to go to Houston they would find a way to make it work. Hell maybe Paul decides he wants to be part of a dynasty and takes a lower salary when he is 35. That would be a fairly common thing for a ringless vet to do at age 35. Is there a reason you like to act like these things are so impossible? I am not even saying this stuff is likely, but randomly acting like It is impossible is pretty humorous and odd.
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I thought about this. What's that salary $ to Lebron? His net worth is around 400M... But maybe he hopes to purchase a team down the line. He's still pretty far from Ownership money.
That is probably part of the reason the LA talk happens so much. He would certainly have more business opportunities there to get closer to ownership money.
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As long he goes to the West division I don't care who he signs with..but I bet he stays at cleveland
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
As the great Patrick Ewing once said, "We might make a lot of money, but we also spend a lot of money".
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Considering we had a lengthy thread on Lebron somehow going to Philly, figured a front page article from the ringer may warrant some actual discussion.
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/11/16760590/lebron-james-houston-rockets-free-agency
Sam Amick also floated the idea in USA Today:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/columnist/sam-amick/2017/12/09/houston-rockets-lebron-james-free-agency/937335001/
I still think the Lakers are most likely because I think it is the best place for him to go to build an empire. From a basketball standpoint he could definitely set up the banana boat team there (Carmelo is playing himself towards the bi-annual exception right now).
how can it heat up when nothing will be done mid season?
Will lebron declare mid season he is joining the Rockets next season?
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I thought about this. What's that salary $ to Lebron? His net worth is around 400M... But maybe he hopes to purchase a team down the line. He's still pretty far from Ownership money.
It's also the principle, especially as a businessman.
Just throwing out hypotheticals, but what happens to Houston if LeBron goes there?
Team value goes up 20%-30% maybe? That's a $440 to $660 million increase based on the recent $2.2b sale (granted ownership doesn't actually get this unless they agree to sell). But there's also team revenue which might go up maybe $100m annually? Operating Income goes up $25m annually maybe?
That's all money that goes to ownership. Why should LeBron take a discount so ownership can reap all the rewards?
(Just pulling these SWAGs off of what I see from the Warriors here (https://www.forbes.com/teams/golden-state-warriors/), here (https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45fflmj/6-golden-state-warriors/#407096f62e83), and here (https://www.statista.com/statistics/286080/operating-income-golden-state-warriors-national-basketball-association/), sure it's more complicated then this, especially considering some of these past numbers may have been impacted by the NBA's new tv deal, remember just hypotheticals)
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I thought about this. What's that salary $ to Lebron? His net worth is around 400M... But maybe he hopes to purchase a team down the line. He's still pretty far from Ownership money.
It's also the principle, especially as a businessman.
Just throwing out hypotheticals, but what happens to Houston if LeBron goes there?
Team value goes up 20%-30% maybe? That's a $440 to $660 million increase based on the recent $2.2b sale (granted ownership doesn't actually get this unless they agree to sell). But there's also team revenue which might go up maybe $100m annually? Operating Income goes up $25m annually maybe?
That's all money that goes to ownership. Why should LeBron take a discount so ownership can reap all the rewards?
(Just pulling these SWAGs off of what I see from the Warriors here (https://www.forbes.com/teams/golden-state-warriors/), here (https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45fflmj/6-golden-state-warriors/#407096f62e83), and here (https://www.statista.com/statistics/286080/operating-income-golden-state-warriors-national-basketball-association/), sure it's more complicated then this, especially considering some of these past numbers may have been impacted by the NBA's new tv deal, remember just hypotheticals)
Do players make more money themselves if their team wins the champs? Or is that not going to be significant for a player like Lebron?
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Wouldn't shock me to see Labron and Wade head to Houston together to team with Paul and Harden. Morey will have to pull off some magic to get a team to take Anderson's contract but like the article says a team like the Kings may be willing in the off-season.
I think the assumption here is that once LeBron goes into full-on ring chaser mode, that he will take less money to join "his buddies."
Houston makes way more sense than LA/PHI
It would be amazing if CLE lost LeBrom, IT and traded the Brooklyn pick for DeAndre. That team would collapse in on itself like a dying star ;)
analogies like this give me faith in humanity
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Good. Get the eff out the East already.
amen and outmofmthe NBA
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Dumb question: I'm LeBron and I want to go to Houston. Other than the pride issue, how much does my salary mean to me? In other words, am I making so much in endorsements that I don't really care?
Mike
I thought about this. What's that salary $ to Lebron? His net worth is around 400M... But maybe he hopes to purchase a team down the line. He's still pretty far from Ownership money.
It's also the principle, especially as a businessman.
Just throwing out hypotheticals, but what happens to Houston if LeBron goes there?
Team value goes up 20%-30% maybe? That's a $440 to $660 million increase based on the recent $2.2b sale (granted ownership doesn't actually get this unless they agree to sell). But there's also team revenue which might go up maybe $100m annually? Operating Income goes up $25m annually maybe?
That's all money that goes to ownership. Why should LeBron take a discount so ownership can reap all the rewards?
(Just pulling these SWAGs off of what I see from the Warriors here (https://www.forbes.com/teams/golden-state-warriors/), here (https://www.forbes.com/pictures/mli45fflmj/6-golden-state-warriors/#407096f62e83), and here (https://www.statista.com/statistics/286080/operating-income-golden-state-warriors-national-basketball-association/), sure it's more complicated then this, especially considering some of these past numbers may have been impacted by the NBA's new tv deal, remember just hypotheticals)
Do players make more money themselves if their team wins the champs? Or is that not going to be significant for a player like Lebron?
I don't think it's significant for most players, unless winning the championship just happens to correspond with your emergence into the national spotlight (a la Steph Curry).
I think the impact of endorsements as well as potential endorsement dollars tends to be extremely overestimated by fans.
Outside the top 2-3 NBA players, you make more from your NBA team than you do endorsements. And outside the top 10-15 best and most marketable players you're making peanuts (by pro athlete standards), lucky to crack $2 million in annual endorsements. Throwing some examples out here, Jimmy Bulter made $900k in endorsements in one of the biggest markets in Chicago last year. DeAndre Jordan made $800k in 2016 in LA. Brook Lopez made $500k in NYC. Then you have guys you'd might be really raking in the big bucks, guys like Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, and Carmelo Anthony, huge names, in tons of commercials, playing at their peak in the NBA's biggest markets, and they've never earned over $9m a year in endorsements.
But anyway, back to LeBron. He's been the NBA's top endorser for the last like 10 years. Maybe he has incentives in his Nike contract (the main source of his endorsement money) to win a championship (or MVP), but I'd guess it's relatively minor (for LeBron, like say $1m bonus), it's not going to surpass the multi-million dollars he'd leave on the table by taking less than a max deal. At this point, I really don't think there's anything LeBron could do to significantly increase his marketability value.
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Lebron, Paul and Harden all on the same team.
Three guys who's games are all pretty much 100% dependant on them having the ball in their hands all the time.
I can't really fathom how that could possible work, from a chemistry standpoint. They have to be so [dang] good that their sheer individual dominance can overshadow the complete lack of chemistry. Which they potentially could be, but darn it would be ugly to see.
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I was reading somewhere recently that LeBron hasn’t changed his stance since he was a free agent in 2014. No discounts, he wants to be paid more than anybody. Because that’s exactly what he’s worth, more than any other player. Still.
There was also a tidbit that he would be doing a disservice to the union he is Vice President of by purposely taking less than he could.
We will see what happens. He guy is definitely an egomaniac so anything is possible. You know he’s already a god in Cleveland. He probably going to have his number retired in Miami (they retired Jordan’s ffs). Maybe 5 seasons of 20-25ppg, 5-8rpg, 4-7apg with great defense and a couple rings get him another jersey ceremony. Has anyone had their number retired by three different teams?